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suamico Offline OP
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I need help for a friend of ours but first a little background on them and our relationship with them. They have been together for about 5+ years. DH has known him through work for about 8 years. I never met him until about 6 years ago. (He was living across state and DH would work with him on jobs here and there) He lost his job and was self destructing (drinking and angry man) DH kept in contact and when a job opened up over here he hired the guy. The friend did a 180 and was a great worker and became a happy person. He credits my DH for saving his life and looks up to my DH. Then he met his wife and they started dating. I met this friend just before he started dating her so I have known her all the time they have been together. At first they were in the honeymoon phase of dating but then some cracks started to show. (IMO the relationship was built more on a sexual attraction than things in common and true friendship) They got engaged and then married in May of 2005. They had a son the next year. The cracks were always there but DH and I were hoping somehow they would figure it out and make it through. After the baby things seemed a little worse but when we got together we had fun and they seemed happy. They BOTH are HM and I have to admit she does drive me crazy sometimes but so doesn't he. But they mean well so I get along with both for the sake of my DH.

I got a call from the wife yesterday. I did notice she had called my cell twice and the house once early morning but didn't call her back. To be honest she usually calls because she needs something. So I figured I would call her later that evening because we were heading out to the movies in an hour. She called my cell again and something told me to answer. Then she dropped a bomb on me. She found out he has been having an affair for almost a year and 1/2. Just an FYI this guy is one of those intolorant Affair people. We had a mutual female friend who was married to an abusive [censored]. They separated and were on the way to divorce when she met and yes started dating another mutual friend of DH and this other guy. He read her the riot act. So I was shocked about the news but thank goodness I had found this website over a year ago when the same thing happened to another (well actually 2) other friends. One of those marriages is recovering the other ended.
So the wife was suspicious and all the signs were there but she had no evidence and she knew how strong he felt about Adultry (blah blah blah). He had given her his password for his e-mail many years earlier when they were good. He didn't change the password so she checked it last week and there it was. Through over a year of discusting e-mails she realized he had been leaving home early (read sneaking out when she was sleeping) and going to his OW before work. This woman was his employee until over a month ago when she was suddenly put into another group. He had no reason to give his wife for why it happened but he was angry. Through lots of snooping she now knows a lot of his friends and their wifes knew about this. I assured her DH did not know but I think she realized that anyways because she wouldn't have called me if she thought I already knew. This poor woman was around all these "friends&wives" that knew and never said a word!

Poor DH is really going through a lot of emotion with this. I told him it will take him a while to process it all. He is angry at his friend for betraying his wife but also for betraying him. He used my husband as an excuse in the past and DH didn't even realize it. As DH and I started putting the pieces together it all makes sense. There were countless times DH and friend would have a couple of drinks and talk. Then DH would come home and I would get a call from her several hours later asking if DH had come home yet. DH and I just chalked it up to him staying for a few more(he does have a drinking problem) Also over the past year or so the guys haven't gotten together that often but his friend said he was working long hours. To add to DH's pain he just went through this 2 years ago with another friend and that friendship ended. I (lovingly) pointed out the simalarities of the old friend and this friend. I told him to keep contact low until he figures out what he wants to do about this friendship. DH asked that the wife not let his friend know she called me. In DH's words he said "He is going to have to tell me and I am not letting him off the hook with any BS." Again thank you MB! I warned DH that the friend will try to blame his wife for the Affair and DH is NOT going to let that happen. Oh to be a fly on the wall when the poop hits the fan!
So here is my question(finally). Does anyone have reverse babble if you are done. She doesn't want to get into a fight with him but she wants to defend herself. I warned her about the changing of history, saying it was her fault, claiming he has been trying for over a year etc. What I am looking for is the list of crap he will spew and what her response should be but geared toward someone who is NOT trying to save the marriage just trying to protect herself from mean talk and fog babble.

Oh and here is how it ended....He found out she found out when he was served with divorce papers at work. His responce? A text message that just said "Goodbye wife, I am sorry" DH was like "A F@#'n TEXT MESSAGE?!?!?!?!" sigh.....so sad.


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Originally Posted by suamico
DH asked that the wife not let his friend know she called me. In DH's words he said "He is going to have to tell me and I am not letting him off the hook with any BS."

This is a HUGE MISTAKE. The best thing your H can do is confront him NOW and let him know how disappointed he is about his sleazy affair. It is like turning on the lights in the crack house. It is no fun smoking crack when others are looking on in disgust and shock. Your H can then confront the OW and tell her his feelings too.

This is SOO IMPORTANT in order to pour cold water on the affair. This man's wife needs to expose the affair EVERYWHERE, to the OM's parents, Human Resources, the OW's parents, etc.

Is the OW married? If so, her H needs to informed.

Exposure is the greatest weapon against an affair, suamico, please don't forgo that great tool.

Can you send the W here to us?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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suamico Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by suamico
DH asked that the wife not let his friend know she called me. In DH's words he said "He is going to have to tell me and I am not letting him off the hook with any BS."

This is a HUGE MISTAKE. The best thing your H can do is confront him NOW and let him know how disappointed he is about his sleazy affair. It is like turning on the lights in the crack house. It is no fun smoking crack when others are looking on in disgust and shock. Your H can then confront the OW and tell her his feelings too.

This is SOO IMPORTANT in order to pour cold water on the affair. This man's wife needs to expose the affair EVERYWHERE, to the OM's parents, Human Resources, the OW's parents, etc.

Is the OW married? If so, her H needs to informed.

Exposure is the greatest weapon against an affair, suamico, please don't forgo that great tool.

Can you send the W here to us?
DH is trying to contact him but he hasn't heard back. He will confront him but he can't if he doesn't get a call back. As for the OW she is not married. The wife really is done and doesn't care to contact HR. She believes that is why OW got a sudden transfer anyways because someone else in the company complained to HR. This guy is going to self destruct very soon. I think he is avoiding calling DH because he suspects DH does know.
I am trying to encourage the W to come here but she is not interested so I figured if I could "feed" her information it would help. Now we have a new problem, she wants to talk to DH to get a mans opinion. As she put it to talk to a man that doesn't condone this behavior. She wants to come over tomorrow night to get her and her son out of the house and to talk to the both of us. I don't think this is a good idea. I want to help her as much as I can but our relationship is a complicated one. To be quite honest she isn't my friend, she is the wife of one of my husband's friends. I want to protect my husband first. He is going through a lot of emotions and reflection. One thing I know is weighing on him is how could he have 2 friends that would do this to their wives and why didn't he see it. He also has a lot of stress with work etc.

Edited to add:
The reason DH doesn't want the W to let the H know is because as I have learned here you don't WARN the WS and her letting him know my DH knows would be a forewarning. But we aren't sure he doesn't know anyways.

Last edited by suamico; 07/04/08 05:11 PM.

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Originally Posted by suamico
Edited to add:
The reason DH doesn't want the W to let the H know is because as I have learned here you don't WARN the WS and her letting him know my DH knows would be a forewarning. But we aren't sure he doesn't know anyways.

No, that is not the right context, suamico. One shouldn't warn the WS in advance of EXPOSURE to others. BUT, your H is an exposure TARGET himself. The goal of exposure is to put pressure on the affair and the whole point is LOST if your H doesnt call him up and tell him he knows and how deeply disappointed he is. THE WS is supposed TO KNOW he has been exposed or it is pointless.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Ok so you are saying he should leave a message on his VM that he knows? The other factor is he is an alcoholic and we are dealing with that also. I would not be shocked if he is doing other things (drugs) also. That is why I am confused, we are dealing with an addiction to alcohol and affair. There are many people that have known about this and did and said nothing. Not only is he in a fog but has been exposed but doesn't care. I talked to BS today and I asked her if she told "sue". She said no but I know what she would say. Then BS told me she was talking to sue 3 years ago before the marriage and she found a questionable e-mail exchange between WS and a OW. She read the e-mail exchange to Sue and Sue said it was wrong and if he did it now he will do it in the future. BS confronted WS and he said it was nothing (babble) and she believed it. BS also told me the only wife I know that she did tell finally confessed that she never liked WS. She said she called the hospital after the baby was born to see how BS and the baby were doing. WS was very verbal and mean and said they were not taking calls because HE had a bad day and he hung up. Apparently he was so mean he made this woman cry but she didn't say anything to BS. This woman always made excuses not to get together with us as a group. BS can be a pain in the a$$ so we all thought maybe she just didn't like to be around BS. NOW the puzzle fits, it was him she didn't like not her (well, I am sure she was annoying but not the reason). I am at the point where I want to help her along but we will NOT be life long friends and DH and his "buddy" will not last either. Where do we go from there?

Again honesty here, WH doesn't care and will rather avoid those who are his true friends (and he has VERY few)and hang out with the ones who condone this. His ego is so "super" he would let true friends go rather than admit he made a mistake. As for me, well I really would not feel a loss if I never saw either one of them again. Everything I am doing is to help a woman hurt deal with this but I don't see us as friends in the future. A woman I would NEVER pick as a friend in the first place. I really think (95%) DH will end the friendship eventually it will either be quick or slow but it will end. So I am going on what do we do that would be the right thing that doesn't interfere with our marriage.

So everything I would be doing would be for ANYONE not a true friend. Does that make sense?


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WOW,
I just had an epiphany moment. As I am processing what I am thinking and have just responded to you it hit me like a hammer. No one cares. WS doesn’t care what he did to the marriage and doesn’t care what anyone thinks. BS doesn’t care what he does anymore, she is done. I ONLY care that a person was wronged and in pain. DH is the one that cares the most and his head is spinning. It is like a re-run in his mind only this friendship was/is a shorter one at 8 years. His other friend that cheated on his wife (as we found out many times) was a friend of over 20 years and he ended that friendship. Not just because he cheated on his wife but because he realized he was a fake. DH really didn’t know him and now here we go again. This is why I am trying to be careful about the advice I give my DH. Is this WS worth my DH’s time and emotionally energy? This guy does look up to my DH but at the same time he is a constant drain of energy. When do we pull the life cord? When do you decide you have done all you can?


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Originally Posted by suamico
Ok so you are saying he should leave a message on his VM that he knows?

I thought that your H was not going to tell him AT ALL because you were concerned about "forewarning" him? And that your H was going to wait until the WS told him? My only point is that your H very much needs to blast him with this news and give him holy hale.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by suamico
WOW,
I just had an epiphany moment. As I am processing what I am thinking and have just responded to you it hit me like a hammer. No one cares. WS doesn’t care what he did to the marriage and doesn’t care what anyone thinks.

Well, I don't know if he cares or not, but your H DOES CARE about this man and his wife, right? It is for that reason that I would tell the WS he knows and tell him how disgusted he is. That will be beneficial to the WS; if not today, in the future in his lucid moments. He will someday greatly appreciate that your H cared enough to express his disappointment. Your H's words will ring in his head.

Frankly, I am glad the BS is leaving the marriage since he is an alcoholic. That is a huge mountain to climb, with very little hope.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Well, I don't know if he cares or not, but your H DOES CARE about this man and his wife, right? It is for that reason that I would tell the WS he knows and tell him how disgusted he is. That will be beneficial to the WS; if not today, in the future in his lucid moments. He will someday greatly appreciate that your H cared enough to express his disappointment. Your H's words will ring in his head.
We do care....that is the point but it as we look back we have been carrying them. We are not the type of people that keep a (ok I am going to say it) a "love bank" with people. But we have learned over the years that there are people that seem to take and take and we don't realize it because we don't keep tabs. To be honest I feel SO bad for her and she is now sharing the dark side of her WH now. But the big "joke" with DH and I is she only calls me when she needs something from me. I never thought of it that way until something happened and I commented to DH after yet another call ON MY BIRTHDAY. I thought she was calling to wish me a happy birthday but it was yet another need/request from her. We always thought of her as the more HM person of the 2 because she never calls to see how we are doing just needing something from us. Then there is WH who calls DH to hang out and talk.... But there has been less talk and more drink and DH is aware of this and has tried to talk about this and try to be a good influence on him. Then there are fewer meetings, and cancels etc that now make my DH realize he was a pawn. There have been several times that DH has left WS and time passes and excuses to BS implicate my DH and it now all adds up. My DH was used as an excuse for his absences and he actually at times said it was my DH that kept him out. There have been so many times she has called or talked about how my DH kept her WH out for one more drink but when I tried to tell her it wasn't my DH and he was home she didn't listen. At the time we didn't do a time line to prove my DH was not out with her WH. After a while DH did notice a pattern and actually were waiting for a call each time he came home but didn't get a call. I think DH does feel a little guilt for not realizing how bad his alcoholism was until now. He has had his own issues with work and not knowing if (for the last 6 months) if he would have a job.

I know this is all choppy but it is complicated. The bottom line is we want to do what is right. We are all for WJJD but that is complicated in our situation. He knows what is in our hearts and he knows what the situation is but meshing the 2 is foggy.


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These do not sound like friends. They sound like toxic people who are intruding on your life. A DH being helpful to a BS of a supposed friend sounds like a recipe to start an A. I would run the other way.


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I don't think they are friend material either. If it were me, I would speak to the WS, tell him y'all know about the affair and then move on. If he is an alcoholic and a cheater, there is nothing on which to base a friendship.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I don't think they are friend material either. If it were me, I would speak to the WS, tell him y'all know about the affair and then move on. If he is an alcoholic and a cheater, there is nothing on which to base a friendship.
DH will confront him when he gets hold of him. So far DH hasn't gotten a call back. This weekend DH is on Coast Guard duty all day for the 4th-6th. He checks his phone when he can but as of last night when he got home no call back. As for the friendship I totally agree. It's not if we end the friendship with both of them it is how and when. I did agree to meet with her this evening. She is very fragile right now and I am afraid she will slip into a depression. She hasn't heard from WS in 4 days and she has a 2 year old that she needs to take care of. She is a pain in my A$$ but I am human and I don't want to see her sink into a depression and not try to help a little. Her mom flew in to stay with her. This was a wonderful gesture but where do you think she got her HM from? Yup, mom drives HER nuts. Not that it's my problem. The good news for me is we are leaving on Friday for 2 weeks so I am hoping by the time I get back she will be more put together. Oh and here is another interesting fact. They asked my DH to be the Godfather of their son before he was even born. They refer to DH as the Godfather but they never had him baptized. Ugh, this is so complicated!


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I don't think they are friend material either. If it were me, I would speak to the WS, tell him y'all know about the affair and then move on. If he is an alcoholic and a cheater, there is nothing on which to base a friendship.
Well here are a few updates. I did meet with BS on saturday night. She told me that she called WH's second wife (she is number 3). WH has kept in touch over the years so she had the number. After a 3 hour conversation 2nd wife said he cheated on her also (he claimed SHE cheated on him and that was part of the reason the marriage broke up.) He was also a heavy drinker, was physical with her etc. 2nd wife thought he had turned over a new leaf and found a nice new wife so she didn't feel it was her place to tell BS. (argh...) Wife 2 did notice a huge change in him the last couple of times they talked and felt he was back to his dark side. She even went as far as crafting an e-mail but never sent it. After the long talk with 2nd wife the puzzle is getting clearer. BS said 2nd wife knew things that happened even when BS didn't tell her because she knew his MO. One thing she said is after he had his A on her he dropped all his friends and has never spoken to them again. BS also gave me information that conflicted with what her WH said to me. He had been married twice so I made a comment about making sure he was 100% sure he wanted this marriage because he has been divorced twice. (I don't remember how the conversation happened because at the time I didn't think anything about it until saturday.) He was a little defensive and said "My first wife died so I have only been divorced once." I said I was sorry and said that must have been painful to loose his wife. When the subject came up about the 1st wife BS said well I don't think that was the same because they were very young and she filed for divorce while he was at sea (navy). So he would have been divorced if she didn't die a tragic death. He left that little detail out.

One of the mutual friends called DH leaving a message stating he needed to talk to him about something but no information. DH thought it was either this or it could be work related as DH got a promotion and this could generate more buisness for this friend. After phone tag they finally talked yesterday. He is also PO'd at WH and wants to do an intervention with him DH and any other friends they could get. I suggested to DH he needs to talk to his family member who is 7 years sober and works with AA all the time. I said although you guys want to help you don't know how to handle a full blown alcoholic. After an hour talk with this family member he has a game plan. He was told the intervention is the wrong thing to do because he isn't ready. He told him what to do and what to look for to get him to that point.

DH did send an e-mail to WH stating he has been hearing things and asked if they could talk and asking if he needed some help. He got a response. No thanks "bob" I don't want to talk about it right now. I believe that if anyone can reach him it would be my DH. He needs to reach him so he can meet with him in person and work with the things he was taught. Another thing is as we are finding out stuff he took OW to work functions and others (vendors they work with) saw her with him but he said she was (true) his employee and he was grooming her for upper management. (GAG!) DH that some may have bought that but there were plenty that knew what was going on and turned the other way. These people have worked together for years at different companys. The guy that called the other day works for a company that sells million dollar computer stuff to companies like my DH and WH's company. DH informed this guy that if WH showed up with this whore (ok that was my term) it could have huge implications for that company. That explains how many of the guys he has called to help have said they don't want anything to do with it. DH says they are backing off so there will be no fallout with the working relationship....so sick! I also told DH that IMO there is a huge chance it is not just booze but drugs. I had expressed this concern to BW and she said "Oh no, he is very anti drug." I said "you mean just like he was SO anti affair?" I have no proof of the drug thing but it did trigger something in DH to search the past and realize it would make sense. DH is so wonderful about valuing my opinion and my "gut feelings" He thinks I am one smart cookie! Of course you guys deserve some of that praise!

One more thing, he drained the bank account this weekend and changed the direct deposit. She makes little to no money in her side job. The guy that talked to DH is basically going to guilt trip the guys that want nothing to do with this (and make great sales money off of these companies) to donate to a fund for the WH's CHILD. He is going to say, you aren't doing it for him or for her but for the poor 2 year old boy who has no daddy and no milk in the fridge. That should do it.


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ML,
This thing just keeps getting sicker and sicker. DH and I will have to have a talk tonight when he gets home. I talked to BW today. I mentioned that I was surprised when she mentioned that the first wife filed for divorce before she died. BH said "oh I found out more. I was talking to MIL the other day. I asked her if she thought he never dealt with the death of his first wife." Then her MIL said "What are you talking about? She isn't dead I just saw her a month ago."
Yup, we need to walk away from this one. This guy is a Narcissist and I don't want anything to do with him. Other things that came out were times where he lied to her and said he was with DH. One time DH had tickets to a Yankees/devil rays game. WH asked if DH could get him one. DH worked the phones and got him one through a vendor. He called WH and he said he wanted to go. DH went ahead and got the ticket and waited at the preparty for him. DH would call and it would be about 30 minutes before WH would call back and say he was coming but needed another 20 minutes or so. After 2 hours and the game starting DH called one more time and gets no answer. About 30 minutes later WH calls and says sorry I really can't make it. DH was pissed because he could have given the ticket to someone else. Today I found out WH lied to BS and said he did go to the game and then out for drinks after with my DH. DH will be pissed when he hears this. The more I hear the more I want to kill this guy.


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