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She actually apologized to me this weekend for getting angry about my run in with OM. She did this without me pointing out to her that she had no right to be angry. Good for her.
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RB,
I'm glad she is starting to see thing a bit more clearly. As for handling your anger and such, I think your Pastor has given you excellent advice. Ask him if he thinks handing your W the one or two items you want to talk about ahead of time would be of benefit. sometimes it helps if the WS knows what is coming in the discussion.
Let me offer you something to think about with regard to writing these items down. Write one down, let it sit, then write down what it is you need to know, or to address, why it is important, and how you hope it can be resolved. Let that sit for a day or so, and then evaluate it. You might want to do this with several at a time, so that you can select the one that is bothering you the most or has the most chance of success with regard to her hearing it and working with you to address it.
It will help you focus on what you really need. It will help you phrase it in ways she can understand, and it will help you use the policies of radical honesty and joint agreement to seek resolutions. I would also view it as the opening of a negotiation. It is very possible she may have a better solution to the given issue than you do. Solicit her input with that thought in mind.
If you two can successfully get through this process, I suspect your marriage is going to take on a different look and feel.
Good luck and God Bless,
JL
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JL,
You hit the nail on the head. My Pastor suggested doing it just as you posted. He said that by giving them to her a day in advance, she would feel more like we were working together towards recovery instead of feeling like I was just unloading on her.
I also liked your suggestion to take a few days to think about each item on my list and figure out why it is important and how we can resolve it.
Thanks again.
RB
BH(me)-44
WW - 43
DD20
DS17
DD13
d-day 4/18/08
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RB, You must have a very very good Pastor.  It is not so much how you resolve it, but how it would feel resolved to you. Solicit her ideas and tactics on approaching these things. I have one other thought that is really not on this line of thought, but something else for you to consider, since I am sure you are short of such topics.  Whatever you decide about this marriage, about rearing this child, about your future, do it for yourself. It occurs to me that there are few people that actually really know what you are attempting. I can think of a few here but most of them don't post much. Given that your children are unlikely to ever understand, your W will not truly understand, and this new baby will not understand, you need to be willing to make these decisions for yourself, expecting little or nothing in return. You have every right and yes OBLIGATION to expect, demaind, work for a good and rewarding marriage and family life. But, with regard to what it will and has taken for you to follow the path you are currently on, only you will truly understand and value it. This must be a path that has value for YOU. If you expect your W to fully understand or even partially understand what you have and will go through, you will be let down. She simply cannot. Just as I cannot understand what it feels like to be pregnant or deliver a child. I may have had more pain in my life, but I will not understand the pain of those acts. It seems to me you must come to a point of acceptance that what you do is enough for YOU. It brings pride to you, joy to your heart, and comfort that you have done the right thing for you. I am not saying that this child, your W, and your family will not respect you, because I think as time goes on they will learn to respect you even more than they do now. But, don't ever expect them to truly know what went on inside. You have to be able to live with that. I think that there is one connection from the previous topic of dealing with anger and this topic. As you start to accept these things as YOURS, I beleive you will find the anger will diminish. The pain will be there, but the anger will go away. Most BS's often are angry that they did NOT just leave. It is pretty much everyone's expectation of themself that "if this happens I'm out of here." Unmet expectations, lead to resentment which leads to anger. But, the reality is most don't leave as you well know from being on this site. RB, you have done a masterful job. You really should be proud of yourself. God Bless, JL
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Harumph, not nearly kind enough   Thank you all for your far too kind remarks. JL I have been reading JL's stuff for a long time. He has been passing out wisdom here for years and years - about nine so it says from his registry date. I was reading an old thread and stumbled across something he said in 2002. I dunno who the heck JL is, his education, what he does for a living or any details of his background (or foreground). What I know is that he is doing good for people, helping them in time of need. Here is the post. I had to reformat it to fit current software needs: Want it back, I feel compelled to address your recent post. Please understand, I don't disagree with how you have arranged your life given the current circumstances, but my compulsion to answer you comes from a deep fear that you don't see the very fine line you are walking and have walked. Don't fear my response has something to do with the thought of this thread. But, I am using your situation as an illustration of something that has not been considered in this discussion. You said: "I understand the "it" thing too. But "it" is a "child" not an "object" weather "it" has been born yet or not. And as far as all the other suffering children in the world, of course everyone would like to see that no child had to suffer but having the opportunity to help that child in some way and turning your back is something I personally could not do. Just want to say that it is possible for a marriage to be rebuilt and for all the children involved to be happy and secure. I know it is because it's happening in my life right now." You H isn't posting here so forgive me for what will seem like putting thoughts in his head. I made bold the part of your quote I want to address. As I understand from your posts, your baby by the OM is less than a year old. I also understand that OM sees the baby often and is in fact HIS only child. I also understand that you have two older children. Although, you have never admitted it, I think you also have an H that has been hurt at a level that few can understand and I am certain from what you have said you don't understand at all. You are most fortunate to have a man that loves his family so deeply that he will endure what you have done, BUT DON'T OVER ESTIMATE HIS FORGIVENESS OR HIS BREAKING POINT.With that preamble, allow me to point out some issues that WILL arise. What is going to happen when your baby is 5-6 or more years old and wants a bicycle?? You don't really what him/her to have it but OM is a softy and buys one anyway. What if your H doesn't want the child to have one?<p>Who is going to make that decision?? You, your H, or OM. When the OM decides to bestow upon your child many Christmas Gifts (assuming you are Christian, if not pick the holiday of choice) what are your other children going to think? Who makes that decision? When this child becomes a teenager and gets out of line who is doing to do the disciplining, you, your H, or OM? Now, I raise these questions for two very specific reasons. One, your OM has a say in this mess, because you have brought him into the child rearing situation. You can argue that by rights you and OM should make the decision, but if you go this route you cut your H out. Given that you have had an affair, this is not going to be good for you, your H, or your children because if H feels he has lost control in his OWN house, the marriage is likely over. If you cut OM out of the decision loop, you have legal problems. If you treat the child differently and more generously than your other children, they have big problems with your adultery and you may lose the connection you have with them. My second point is that your H sounds like a very strong man, but when the raising of this child becomes an issue and it will because raising ones own child often leads to disagreements between H and W, there can be hugh problems that will lead to the end of your marriage. Now, Want it back, I don't know the degree to which you are committed to your marriage. I hope it is now strong, but the data suggests that it hasn't been strong for that long or this child would not exist. What I want to point out, that while you seem to think you have made the right choice now you are in fact rubbing your H's face in the fact that this child is not his everytime OM comes and interacts with it and/or you take the child to OM without your H. But, my main point is that life with this situation may not be as ideal as you think when really hard decisions about child rearing come. Babies are easy, teenagers are not, and having three people to play against one another is not a good thing. My guess is that it may well destroy your marriage, if it is not handled with extreme care and understanding on your part. It falls to you because through your folly you have brought two men together into a very very volatile mix of emotions, trust, and responsibility. So I think the connect to this thread is clear. People are focused in this discussion on "innocent" babies or young children, but to me the issue really comes to a head when children need the most parenting, the teenage years. Then the situation gets really rough and no one is discussing this part of the issue of dealing with an OC. Thanks for reading through this, if you got this far. God Bless, JL Enough said. Larry
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Today is a kind of bittersweet day. My baby is now a teenager and I’m not sure how to feel about that. There was a time when I would have been excited about this day. The whole aging thing never really bothered me and I enjoy seeing my kids develop and mature. I kind of looked forward to this day as a sort of milestone in time when we could see ourselves begin the downward journey to the end of our childrearing days and look forward to the things that come with the next phase in life like college, those first real jobs, and eventually weddings and grandchildren. Now with this whole affair/OC thing, the picture has completely changed and I likely have another 13 ½ years before getting back to this point.
It is times like this when I really struggle with my anger. Just when our children are becoming more independent, freeing us up to spend more time together as a couple, this affair/OC is making that an impossibility.
It almost seems harder these days than it was just after d-day. Back then, I was so busy focusing on plan A and dealing with my wife’s fog that I was too busy to really feel very much. Now that much of plan A is becoming normal habit requiring very little extra effort I have a lot more time on my hands to focus on the hurt and resentment over what she did to me and our family. She is doing great and is in many ways a better wife than she has ever been. She has jumped into recovery and counseling with both feet and she’s doing everything that I could have ever hoped she would do. It sometimes feels like she is moving forward while I am sliding backwards.
Between DD13’s birthday and Krazy’s post about his 2 yr d-day anniversary, today is one of those days where reality seems to be setting in and the mountain before me just seems to grow bigger and bigger. I guess this is why Dr Harley says that the average recovery takes 2 years. I know we are making progress, but it just seems like for every foot we climb up this mountain that the summit grows by 2 feet.
I don’t know if this is a good idea or not, but my wife and I are going away together for a long weekend tomorrow. We are planning to combine some recreational activities and fun with some extended time to talk about where we are and where we’re going. This is actually her suggestion and she planned the entire weekend. She wanted us to just have an extended amount of time to do some fun things together, but to also have plenty of time to talk uninterrupted about us. I guess we’ll see how it goes.
BH(me)-44
WW - 43
DD20
DS17
DD13
d-day 4/18/08
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RB:
I think the weekend away is an excellent idea.
The MB weekend would work well too, but a well-planned weekend with activites and time to talk, (planned by the WS!) is a really good thing.
Don't worry about K71's thread. Two years is a guide, your mileage may vary, and you will have OC as a constant reminder. Your road is very difficult.
However, listen to some of the posters, earlier on your thread, who have traveled the same type of road that you have, not just the infidelity part, but the OC part. They can provide wise guidance on what to expect.
LG
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rb take a deep breath and relax. i know easier said then done.
i just wanted to second what jl said about recovering for you and not because you will get pats on the back from anyone or for your wife. my neighbor and i were talking this past weekend and he mentioned that same exact topic. also that no one (my w, kids, inlaws) will ever realize what it took to keep this family together.
that decision has to be made beacuse YOU want it and are willing to accept things and move forward.
the biggest thing i see with you is addressing your anger. i never really addressed mine and things strung out. i was always to concerned with ribbing the situation in my w's face. so i tried to supress it.
i understand your concern about just when it seemed life was getting easier. that is where fullhouse (fh - my w) and i were when she ended up preg. the kids at home were 6, 9, 11, 12, 18, 19 at the time i believe. but after getting that far we were starting to slip away for weekends alone because we had the olders to babysit.
it has changed since that time but not so much because of the oc but rather because we have been having probs with the teens and feel we have to babysit them more then the little ones.
don't worry about the empty nest freedom stuff. i think that if your family can stay strong then you will be able to do some of the same things like this weekends get away with your w. and with the strong leader that you are that should be a given.
how are you doing with your w's growing tummy? how is your w doing knowing the pain her growing preg causes you?
it was easy for me to disconnect from that part of her life at that time. it was very hard on her to try and enjoy her preg and also try and hide her enjoyment from me. she actually never had a baby shower for grace. her quilt and embarrassment made her refuse all offers.
when i was at your stage i was sure i would never be able to become attached or bond with her child.
i look back now and because of how close and how much i love grace i wish i had found the strength to make it more enjoyable for her.
don't fret the 2 year deal either. it sounds like an eternity. but i think that is what they see as "complete" recovery. from my experience things got much easier once i bonded with the baby.
it took me about 2 weeks after birth. once that bond was formed (when i stopped allowing my anger to control my heart) things became much easier.
hang in there buddy. you are doing great and you have a great resource on your side. a w that is committed and WILLING to take a positive roll in this recovery process.
me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
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Pops and LG,
Thanks for the encouragement. It’s hard to keep things in perspective when you’re in the middle of the fight. I know without a doubt that we have made tons of progress in the 3 months since d-day. But, sometimes when I see how far we have to go I get a little disheartened. I am also really encouraged that my wife has jumped into this recovery like she has. I know I’m lucky that at times like this when I start to feel tired, she jumps in and picks up the ball. It’s funny, I am having mostly good days lately, but then there are days like today when the reality of it all just kind of hits me hard. I am, however, looking forward to the time away with her this weekend.
Pops, you are absolutely right about my anger. I have worked so hard to control any angry outbursts as part of plan A since that was a real LB for my wife. I find that I have gotten pretty good at not “blowing my top” and keeping my cool. I think the next step is finding a way to express my anger in a way that is not destructive so that I don’t keep it all inside and let it fester.
Also, to answer your other question, her growing belly hasn’t really affected me too much at this point, but it is barely noticeable unless you are looking at her from a certain angle. She has also been really careful about not talking too much about her Dr visits. It’s kind of a tough spot to be in. I don’t know how much I can handle when it comes to Dr’s appts and pregnancy issues, but, at the same time, I don’t want her to look back in a few years and regret that she couldn’t enjoy this time in her child’s development. She’s trying really hard not to rub my face in it, but I can tell at times that she really wants to talk about it and just keeps quiet.
BH(me)-44
WW - 43
DD20
DS17
DD13
d-day 4/18/08
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Rb,
I've followed your thread from the beginning and I just wanted to tell you that I have a great deal of respect for you.
BS(me) - 40
FWH - 36
6 years of discovery.
Now - one day at a time....
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Also, to answer your other question, her growing belly hasn’t really affected me too much at this point, but it is barely noticeable unless you are looking at her from a certain angle. She has also been really careful about not talking too much about her Dr visits. It’s kind of a tough spot to be in. I don’t know how much I can handle when it comes to Dr’s appts and pregnancy issues, but, at the same time, I don’t want her to look back in a few years and regret that she couldn’t enjoy this time in her child’s development. She’s trying really hard not to rub my face in it, but I can tell at times that she really wants to talk about it and just keeps quiet. i went to some of the drs appointments with my w and her sister went to some also. when i look back i wish i had been able to enjoy this with her. not neccesarily for her but more for myself. grace has taken up such a huge chunk of my heart that i sometimes feel embarrassed when we look back with the kids and talk about our interactions before they were born. try not to look to far ahead. i know you want to be prepared but dwelling on the unknown will do you no good. just take them as they come.
me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
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I’m amazed at how quickly this recovery rollercoaster moves from peaks to valleys and repeats. I was on a peak a few weeks ago celebrating how much my wife was committed to recovery and how hard she was working only to dip into one of those valleys last week when the enormity of recovery finally hit me. Well, after this weekend I am definitely headed to another peak. I understand enough at this point to know that there will more valleys and peaks in the future, but I’m just going to enjoy this current upswing while I can.
We went to a friend’s beach house on Friday morning and stayed until late yesterday afternoon. It was my wife’s idea and she made all of the arrangements from packing the bags to making dinner reservations. We had a great weekend away with NO kids or interruptions. We spent literally hours talking about what had happened over the past year and how we had gotten to where we are. We even managed to get in a few rounds of golf and a couple of long walks on the beach.
For the 1st time in a very long time, I saw the things in her that attracted me to her over 20 years ago. I realized that after months of trying to protect her while she worked through a lot of issues that she was finally at a place where I could be honest with her and tell her about all of my struggles during the past 3+ months. I also think it did her a lot of good for me to finally get to the place where I could open my heart and be completely honest with her. There were a lot of tears and a lot of laughs and even a little SF. What more can a husband ask for? It felt really good to be able to confide in her about my struggles with what she had done and about my insecurities in being able to handle recovery along with this pregnancy and eventually this baby. I think it really helped her also, because she knew me well enough to know that I was keeping a lot of stuff inside and she was nervous about what it was and how it would eventually come out.
On of the most telling statements about how far she has come was when she echoed something that JL posted to me last week. After apologizing again for probably the thousandth time, she said, “I know how much pain all of this has caused me, but I have come to understand that all of that pales in comparison to the pain I have caused you and that I can never fully understand that pain.” She then went on to say, “I thank God every day for the way you have handled everything and for your willingness to give me a 2nd chance after the way I cheated on you and the kids. I don’t know if I have the strength to do what you’re doing.”
For the first time since d-day, I really felt like she “got it,” that she really understood the level of hurt and betrayal that she has caused. I know that we have a lot of issues and many more bumps to endure, but I can at least see the possibility that this will end in a happy, recovered, and fulfilling marriage. I also feel energized to continue after being able to unload lot of anger, a lot of resentment, and a lot of uncertainty in our talks without it becoming a LB. I was able to express how I felt in a manner in which we could talk about it and deal with it and that’s not something I could have done 3 months ago.
Thanks again to all of you for your encouragement and for the occasional 2x4 when I need it. I have learned so much from you guys since all of this began yet, I also understand that there is so much more to learn.
BH(me)-44
WW - 43
DD20
DS17
DD13
d-day 4/18/08
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I've got a lot of good feelings about the hope and recovery of this M. RB, our God is a God of second chances!!! All Blessings to both of you, Jerry
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RB, I am so glad your weekend went well. I may be wrong, but I would guess that you have never opened up to your W the way you did this weekend. I would guess this is probably the first time she has heard your fears, concerns, anxiety about yourself, your marriage, and the future. I am certain you have had these fears about other things over the years, but she never heard them did she? I hope you have or will thank her for listening to you. I hope you will explain to her how much it meant for you to confide in her about my struggles with what she had done and about my insecurities in being able to handle recovery along with this pregnancy and eventually this baby. My guess is that as you two go along and you two work on being open and honest about your feelings, your marriage may turn out to be something it would not have otherwise. Sometimes we make the biggest gains, when we are put through the biggest trials. RB, I don't know if your W knows that you post here. I suspect she does. Tell we are proud of her, and really proud of you. This is very tuff stuff. You two are handling it about as well as it could be handled. I would offer one other thing to do...LISTEN TO POPS. He's good. God Bless, JL
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What else can she say. WW got to have the thrill of an affair. Gets to keep her family intact for her and the COM, children of the marriage. WW gets you to agree to her keeping the OC, other child, and you get to pay for it.
Ask WW what are you getting equal to what she got.
Last edited by TheRoad; 07/14/08 07:01 PM.
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What else can she say. WW got to have the thrill of an affair. Gets to keep her family intact for her and the COM, children of the marriage. WW gets you to agree to her keeping the OC, other child, and you get to pay for it.
Ask WW what are you getting equal to what she got. OH OF COURSE!!! How stupid of me. It's all about keeping score. Silly me. Good Grief.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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What else can she say. WW got to have the thrill of an affair. Gets to keep her family intact for her and the COM, children of the marriage. WW gets you to agree to her keeping the OC, other child, and you get to pay for it.
Ask WW what are you getting equal to what she got. OH OF COURSE!!! How stupid of me. It's all about keeping score. Silly me. Good Grief. RunnerBoy could make himself equally miserable by cheating on his (R)WW, getting the OW pregnant, and making sure she caught him in the act, but it wouldnt make him feel any better. Didn't make me feel any better Keep running, just make sure its to something, not away.
FBH 34 me,FWW 34,
DS 14, OC-D 12 (given up for adoption), DS-8, DD-5
D-Day#1 10-12-1998
D-Day#2 2-10-2008
Recovered!
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It's not about keeping score. What was done can not be undone.
BH can never get even. A RA will not make him even. Or getting a MOW pregnant will not get him even. He can only accept that WW ended it.
BH has to eat it to save his family. Do not condem him for recovering. I just don't think that his WW will ever fully realize her being pregnant by the OM has done to her BH. Who knows how having an OC will cause the OM to react and effect them and the COM for years to come.
Her words do not hold much to me because she got everything in the end.
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It's not about keeping score. What was done can not be undone.
BH can never get even. A RA will not make him even. Or getting a MOW pregnant will not get him even. He can only accept that WW ended it.
BH has to eat it to save his family. Do not condem him for recovering. I just don't think that his WW will ever fully realize her being pregnant by the OM has done to her BH. Who knows how having an OC will cause the OM to react and effect them and the COM for years to come.
Her words do not hold much to me because she got everything in the end. I'm most certainly NOT condemning him for wanting to recover. I took your words to be doing that. Your post is very contradictory. What did she get in the end? She got a husband who loves her enough to overcome the very real battles they will fight. She recovered her integrity and is now doing what is right. She got her family intact. I think she will have a full realisation of what she has done to her BH. ALL FWW's who are truely repentant do. SHe didn't get off easy by any account.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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I think RB is way past Junior High. BH has to eat it to save his family. He has to do no such thing. He has chosen to forgive and try to recover his marriage the best that he can under the circumstances. Who knows what the future holds but for today, he's choosing to TRY and work this thing out. I say good for him and I ADMIRE his strength and courage. It takes a STRONG man to do what he's doing. Eating it to save his family? I sure don't see it that way.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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