i agree with MrsW and also suspect there he is not worried about you divorcing him. I bet he thinks he can go play again for a few years and you will take him back when he is done playing. Here is what Dr Harley told a lady in a similar sitution.

I agree with MrsW 100%

I was the first D in my family. I remember being embarrassed to walk into church with my kids, and no H. I figured that everyone was staring at me and saying "there goes a single mom. I wonder what she did wrong" I went through months of having panic attacks every time I went to the grocery store, becuase I felt like grocery stores were for normal, intact families. Not women who could not keep their man around....

Of course, all that is behind me now!!

I now realize that the church is full of other women, and men, just like us, who are looking for forgiveness. Looking for a peaceful life.

that first trip to the lawyer is scary. BUT just going in, sitting down, and asking questions does not mean that you have to file for D that day.It is very important for you to get in there and get some good solid advice.
You said something about helping him buy a car - you refinanced the house recently - he has other debts. You just need to get a clear picture of what your situation is now, and how to protect your future. Even if you never file for D - you are in plan B right now,and need to protect your finances for you and your DS. There are things you can be doing right now that will just make your life easier later on.

At the very least, please get a copy of your credit report TODAY. Go online and do it for free. that way, if he suddenly racks up a bunch of debt later on, at least you will be able to see where you were as of today.

also - when you go to see the lawyer, it would be good to all ready have that credit report.

I know it is scary - believe me I know. Find a lawyer, make an appointment, take a friend to sit with you in the lobby. It will give you great peace of mind to just talk to a professional and get real answers.

I was the first D in the family. But I am the greatest success story. Not because of the D, but because of the solid, loving, peaceful life I have built for myself.

Hi Kim

I just wanted to add something about the "divorce/domestic violence" issue that has been brought up. Many of the pastors and priests who quote "God hates divorce" neglect the rest of that verse. It actually says the following:

Mal.2: 16 "I hate divorce," says the Lord God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the Lord Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith. "

Some versions of this text actually say that God "hates" divorce but He "abhors" a man who clothes himself with violence.

In addition, the verses before this say:

"13 Another thing you do: You flood the Lord's altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. 14 You ask, "Why?" It is because the Lord is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant. 15 Has not the Lord made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth."

When it says "the Lord is acting as the witness..." that's a legal term in the old Hebrew law for "accuser". God is the one who stands up for us in this whole matter. He's the one who brought us together. So, even if there is a legal "divorce", God does not release the offending party from their responsibility in His eyes.

The part about God not hearing the prayers of those in unrepentant adultery (broken faith with the wife of your youth...your marriage covenant) is pretty strong about where God places the responsibility for adultery.

Lots of WS's like to say "God wants me to be happy" as if God were some permissive parent who lets His kids get away with naughty behavior. What God actually says in His word is that He wants us to have "abundant life" and He set up boundaries-just like a good parent-to help us have that life.

Think about the 10 commandments. They aren't a bunch of "don't do this." The first four are about how His people should honor Him and worship Him. The 5th one is about how to have good family relationships. And the last 5 are how to treat other people, because if you really want to get along with someone, you shouldn't kill him; sleep with his wife; lie about him; steal his stuff; or be envious of his success. Pretty practical IMHO.

I hope this is helpful in some way. Hang in there!

Gosh Kim, you are getting some fantastic support here, very valuable advice. I hope you are okay. We would like to hear from you. We all know how difficult a time this is for you.

Please seek legal counsel--so that you can at least have some knowledge of where you stand and what ways you can protect yourself, even if you choose not to file for a D.

Hi Kim,

Just dropped in here to see how you are and hope your feeling better than the other night. I have been praying for you.
See your lawyer, I am starting my proceedings now.
Ignore your WH and all about him, just think of yourself and your DS, you are entitled to be selfish now. Its all about YOU!

{{{HUGS}}}

Lil.

wow. a lot of things for me to digest here.

As I am reading, tears are flowing down my cheeks.

FH - I don't believe my WH has ever accepted Christ into his heart. I was raised Southern Baptist. I have not done a good job of keeping my relationship with Christ active or done a good job of serving Him. WH and I have attended a church together since he's been home. We had attended Church together some before the A and during our Marriage.

so, Mel. What is the best way to tell DS? Just come right out and say "I asked Daddy to move out because he has a girlfriend?" I know that some parents don't tell their children and they grow up with very successfull relationships and Marriages.

I do see your point. You don't tell someone to move out just because they hurt your feelings. I also told DS that Daddy lied to me. But, you don't tell someone to move out just because they lie to you. It depends on what the lie is.

I understand everyone's point about seeing a lawyer. I will think about it.

And about the forgiveness thing. I said that out of great anger. With prayer, God can help me forgive WH. I don't want to live the rest of my life with this thorn stuck in my heart. I don't think it matters to WH if I fogive him or not at this point. That is something he will one day have to take up with God.

I wish that WH would just take the action and divorce me. He is the one who doesn't want this M. I don't want it in the state it is in.

so Mel, you think he would never D me??? Just keep me hanging until I broke down?

I am still having moments of sadness and I still hurt.

Shattered - it is good to hear from you! I am glad that you are doing great and that there is life after D.

Sometimes I think about it & I think of how free I could feel if I were free of him legally. But then I think that I will always love him and be tied to him emotionally.

I will pray that God will guide me and help me with my decisions.

Lil doggie - Thanks for checking in too. Mrs Wondering - I remember you too!

I know I didn't address all of the points, but it has me thinking. Thank you all.

I know I can get through this even though I don't feel like it now.

And I also know children who were not told who grew up profoundly morally confused and SCREWED UP. There is no reason to not tell him. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies.


Can you see how this would worry him? You seemingly kicked out his father because you weren't getting along and because he lied to you. What if you and your son don't get along? What if he lies to you like all children do?

I just think its important that he understand the seriousness and GRAVITY of your decision to ask his dad to move out. It was not a frivolous decision on your part and he needs to know WHY so he doesn't grow up hating YOU over this.

It would also help if your son told his dad how disgusted he is about his adultery. Your H should be put in a position to have to explain himself to this boy. He has put this boy through he11, let him explain.

And I would be VERY CLEAR with him about what is happening and not whitewash it. Talk about ADULTERY and why adultery is wrong. Tell him it is immoral and that this is NOT your H's 1st affair. Tell him about the last affair and how much pain it caused you.



Oh yes. That is what he has done so far. He strings you along as much and as long as he can get away with it.

I will post my Dr Laura transcript about telling kids the truth in the next post.

This is a segment that is sloppily and partially transcribed by me that was on the Dr Laura show recently. I thought Dr. Laura made some EXCELLENT and profound points about the effects of lying to children about adultery. I don't always agree with her views on adultery, but she is right on in this aspect.

Dr. Harley, as many of you know, is a strong advocate of telling the children the TRUTH.

Dr. Laura show [4:25 min into segment - 5-15-08]

Caller: Husband had an affair with good friend for 2 years. Her H ws one of his "buddies."

Dr. Laura: Do you have minor children?

Caller: Yes, we both do

Dr. Laura: They are willing to hurt your kids? Why are they willing to break up the families?

caller: Basically, they said they are not "happy."

Dr L: So that is the explanation for being willing to hurt their kids? They are doing this to be "happy?"

What can I do to possibly help you?

Caller: I need to know what to tell my kids.

Dr. Laura: THE TRUTH. They are breaking up 2 families because they have decided.....

See, I am not of the school where you stand by and do pretend with kids where this is all ok. Because this is NOT OK.

The most important story is that this is NOT OK. sit down with your husband and tell him you are going to explain to our children, in a factual, non hysterical way I am going to explain to the kids the horrible thing you are doing to destroy their family. That you are "not happy" is not sufficient reason to destroy 2 families and I am going to make this clear to them because I want them to grow up understanding this is WRONG.

That is my advice. And i think everybody should be clear this is selfish behavior that is WRONG, vows were made.

Not being "happy" is something you work to turnaround, not something you destroy a family over. If both of these people were to hear this was going to happen they will have second thoughts.

DO not think for a moment you are doing wrong by telling your children this. It is your moral obligation to teach them right from wrong. EVEN when it demonstrates a parent has done wrong. The parent cannot be whitewashed and get away with that - THAT IS WRONG and that does not teach the children

I really hope alot of people hear this. Alot of ppl want to whitewash what they are doing. Kids should know that is your attitude.

But to tell the custodial parent: hey don't make me look bad for my own selfish gain is ABSURD! and is EVIL! We are going to make wrong seem ok. Kids will lose any sense of right and wrong. Kids will be taught that anything is ok as long as it makes me "happy." Kids lose any sense of right or wrong. "well, it makes me happy to use drugs" when I am 12 It makes me "happy" to get on my knees and give 4 6th graders oral sex. That is what they teach their kids.

This is what happens when you whitewash wrongdoing to make no body feel bad which is why I get called MEAN. I get called mean because I say the truth. "Its MEAN to say something is right or wrong; its mean to make somebody feel bad!" Its MEAN to say the truth. People get shut down when they get called "judgmental" when they say the truth. The intent is to shut you down. Well, I don't shut up. Kids don't learn important truths when they allow others to shut them down. We don't help our children when we don't say the truth and support them in saying what is right and wrong.

Kim...

I very much agree with everything that ML posted to you...I think it is CRUCIAL for your son to be told the truth...

On another note, have you thought about calling JustPeachy? If I recall correctly the two of you had met on at least one occasion...I think that she would be a wonderful source of local support for you right now...

Mrs. W

Kim,
I don't think your WH will file for divorce. He didn't last time and he won't this time. It is obvious he doesn't want to be married, but I don't think he wants a wife either.

I think he wants a mom. He wants someone to cook and clean and manage the family while he runs around like a 17yo boy.

Do you really want to put up with him whining to you about his poor finances like he did last time? Go ahead and get it all set up. Then you both will have a very clear picture of what option A and option B look like. I think if you are the one to file, that gives you more power to the timeline. It can go as fast or slow as you need.

I am curious what your communication with him since he left is. It struck me that he didn't want to leave but was sure fast to change his email password once you kicked him out. If he wanted your forgiveness, he would have been out at the crack of dawn resealing your driveway or something.

Draw your boundary, you will not be "default" position for him anymore.

And I agree, DS is old enough to know. Married people don't have boyfriends and girlfriends, he can understand that.

Your WH sees what is out there and he knows what was waiting at home. Don't make it easy on him to slither back in without doing the work. You are his family, not just a place to crash when he is in between deals.

Well here's something else for you to consider about your son - if he does not know that Daddy was asked to leave because he had a girlfriend, then when WH has visitation with this son, and takes him around said girlfriend, how is he possibly to know that this woman along with his father is the reason he can't have both parents in his home, together, in love with each other?

If you don't define it as wrong, she's going to be just a nice friend that daddy has instead of the evil threat she is to him.

I will try to do this Mel...I grew up knowing nothing of married people who did this kind of thing. Never happened to anyone that I knew. Everyone in my hometown stayed married. My childhood was full of innocence. I only wanted the same thing for my DS.


I wish I could e-mail this to WH.


Hi Mrs. Wondering - hope you have been doing great! Yes, JustPeachy & I got together a bit while WH was gone and she was great support. I tried reaching her a few months ago......


Jean - you make a good point and I have thought about this over the past day or so. It also gives me control over a situation where I feel like I have no control over.


I sent him an e-mail stating that I could not see or speak to him while he was in a relationship outside of the Marriage. That if he could TRULY end his A that I felt we could really rebuild our M. That the fun and laughter we shared the past weekend was indicative of that.

He e-mailed me back --- summary: I am an amazing and incredible woman. He loves me tremendously. He loves DS tremendously. He is sorry for what he's put me through. He won't promise or say antyhing that is not true but will do anything for me and DS to make DS's life as normal as possible.


KaylaAndy - I hear you loud and strong. Thanks for reading and posting. I don't want DS to think that the OW is some nice friend....

I will try, try to work up to telling DS everything...


A friend came to visit me last night as I had invited her kids over to play with DS and have a cookout. DS had a lot of fun & I had already shared with my friend what had happened with WH (she knew about the last time too). She ministered to me and we talked a bit about addictions, etc. She recently helped counsel a friend who's H had an Internet Porn Addiction. They were also counseling through their Church and the H was instructed to move out until he met certain requirments. Sounded a lot like the MB program. In the end, the H moved back, but was still not able to stay "sober". After being disappointed a second time, the wife decided should could not go through the same steps over again. So she decided to D the H. She had two small children adn didn't want them to be exposed to his addiction. The H was exposed through his father and that was how he was introduced to it.

I realized that this applies to my situation too. I don't want DS to grow up and have an A on his wife. WH's mom is twice divorced I think. Supposedly his biological Dad had an A on his mom. But his mom never told him until recently.

My friend encouraged me to give this some more time. She asked me what I thought I needed to happen next. I told her that I needed to get myself right with God and draw nearer to him. To pray and find peace and joy through Him.

She said that God would reveal to me and guide me in what I needed to do. To take one day at a time with Him.

Before she left, she prayed with me. It is a blessing to have a neighbor like her.

I tried e-mailing the the H of WH's first OW. His e-mail bounced back, so I decided to call him. He served his wife D papers this week. I asked him if she was still working at the paper. He said no, but he didn't know where she was working now??? Does that seem odd? He doesn't have his two kids, and will not be granted custody. He said as far as he knew his wife and my WH never stopped contact. He sounded great & I told him so. OW has a different phone # now & he has stopped caring about what she's doing.

I want to believe WH when he said that there was absolutely No Contact. He even told the counselor last Saturday that there was none with that particular OW.

Silly me. I didn't know I needed to ask him about any other Relationships he was carrying on.

Just checking in on you Kim, hope you and DS are doing OK

Jean -

Hi! Thanks for checking in. Ds & I are doing o.k. I still have my moments of sadness of course. But DS seems happier than ever.

but hey!! I reserved a horseback riding session this Saturday for DS & I!! I am soooo excited. It will be DS' first trail ride. I hope he enjoys it!!

I also joined a local "healing relationships" meet-up group. Will see how that goes.....last night as I was filling out the questionnaire I answered that I wanted the Marriage to work out still and that ideally WH and I would try again. But this time REALLY following a rigid plan.

I don't feel like I did the first time. I never had thoughts of what life would be like a year from now without WH. I always pictured the future with him back in it. Now I occasionally think of what is will look like a year from now without him.

I think of what WH has turned into. What he has turned into is not attractive at all. It sickens me now whereas before I looked at it as someone who has "gone astray" and needs to be led back home somehow.

IF the old husband ever turned up, I might be willing to give it another go. BUT if God has it in his plan another chance for us, it is going to be different the next go round.

I have really enjoyed the extra time I am getting to spend with DS. I am back into the habit of reading devotionals to him and praying before bedtime. Perhaps God is doing me a favor? Maybe I would not be able to raise DS to know God so well with WH here?

Part of me still wants the M to work out. Part of me does not.

Tonight between chapters in a story I was reading to DS, He said "Mommy, I need to tell you something." (with a big grin on his face) "No, first I need to tell you something then I need to show you something"

then he said "I love you Mommy." and he gave me a huge hug with a big smile. Made my heart melt.

He seems very happy. And that makes things easier for me.

Hi Kim,

Sounds like you are doing well.


...and I see your DS knows a good thing when he sees it!

Hi Kim, I've "been away" for a little bit and wanted to catch up with your situation. The following quotations are not "sequential" in "posted time," but they are relevant to each other, so I grouped them together in order to hopefully respond a little more clearly.


Okay, you know your husband better than anyone except for God. If you are correct, then you have been in what God calls and "unequally yoked marriage." Why do you suppose he was "going through the motions" of attending church with you?




Not "silly," he was (and still is) taking advantage of your love for him and your trusting nature. He KNOWS you believe and he has probably heard all about God saying, "forgive" someone. You know, things like "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others," etc. But he "conveniently" forgets that to be forgiven requires repentance on the part of the sinner.




Dr. Laura is 100% correct in her assessment. I've just had another personal "go around" with this very subject, and people don't "like" the truth when it inconveniences them and they DO try to play the "judgmental card" to get you stop saying what is true.

Here's the "key" for you on this one, Kim, God IS truth. What God has said in His Word IS truth, imparted to us BY God.

What Dr. Laura said concerning the custodial parent and what to tell children is also true and it is consistent with God's Word. "Train up a child" includes righteousness (behaviors that honor God and humbly submitting our will to God's will) and honesty (truth).

Too often today people want to deny the idea of "authority" and of the existence of "absolutes." God is "in the business" of truth and He has the authority to decide the "absolutes." "Personal responsibility" is often tossed out the window in favor of "if it makes ME feel good then it must be right." Wrong. Evil often "feels good," at least for a short time. That's part of the enticement of sin.

Part of parenting is to give our children "truth," even when sometimes it might hurt for a while, because truth not only "heals," but it established that there IS "right and wrong," and the children NEED that. They will be faced with having to make their own decisions, and it's very important that they KNOW that "excuses" do not negate "right." It is important that they KNOW that what is "right and wrong" comes from God and is not just a "relative thing that each person can bend to justify wrongful behavior."




A wonderful example of "fog laden self-justification."


"I am an amazing and incredible woman." You ARE. A true statement.


"He loves me tremendously." No he doesn't. A false statement to "sooth" is very unloving behavior.


"He loves DS tremendously." No he doesn't. A father who loves his children does NOT continue to bring pain and devastation into their life by his own self-centered indulgence of "doing what he wants to do even if others get hurt." That is NOT love and it is not protecting his children and it is not self-sacrifice as a Parent.


"He is sorry for what he's put me through." No he isn't. He's sorry he "got caught." He's sorry others can't see that he is "entitled" to do whatever he wants to do. He is NOT "repentant to God" and he is not repentant to you.


"He won't promise or say anything that is not true" An "empty" promise. HIS "truth" is whatever HE wants, not what IS true. What he won't promise is to "follow Christ" because he doesn't thing Christ IS true and that God IS truth. He wants to twist truth in the same way that Satan twists truth, to deny what God HAS said.


"but will do anything for me and DS to make DS's life as normal as possible." This is laughable. "Normal as possible" without him. There IS a truth in here, Kim. That truth is we find our "life" in Christ, not without Him. That is the truth for you and your child. But it is NOT the truth for him because he WILL NOT "do anything" but indulge his own wants and desires to "give into" temptation and sin.





Kim… out of the "mouths of babes." A "childlike faith."

"Perhaps God is doing me a favor? Maybe I would not be able to raise DS to know God so well with WH here?"

Kim, please don't forget, while you are dealing with all the trauma of your husband's actions, that God is first, and foremost, the God of Peace for those who know Him and love him. God says to Kim, "I love you Kim." And He gathers you under his "wing" as a Hen gathers her chicks and gives you His hug, warmth, and safety from the turmoil raging around you.

God knows the future, and He clearly promises you that He will never leave you or forsake you. He will walk WITH you through all the turbulence of the day and will LEAD you into a future WITH Him as you walk with Him. Our "circumstances" do NOT "define us," nor do they negate the truth that "we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Rom. 8:28)

"All things" includes your husband's choice to disobey God and bring betrayal and devastation into your life and the life of your son.

God bless.

Good morning Kimberly,

Sounds like you are keeping busy and doing good things to bond with your DS. This is really the best thing for you both right now.


Many of us understand what you have been thru and what you are going thru right now. There are still days that I shake my head in disbelief that things went SO WRONG. There were days, right after PWC left, that I looked at what I did and wondered where *I* could have worked harder. now, I don't doubt at all that I did all that I could, that it was really up to PWC to step up to the plate, and his decision was not to. I was not willing to remain in a loveless marriage.

You are doing well, despite the situation. Thank you for your support on my thread.

(((Kimberly)))

FH - Thanks for reading and posting. I am still struggling with telling DS everything. I will pray that God will give me strength and guidance to telll him.


Thank you for that too. I was angry a few days back, desperately sad and undone. I can feel God protecting me under his wing. I still have a long, long, long way to go.

Your analysis of WH's e-mail was good. I couldn't help but e-mail him back the next day. At the time, I didn't care that I was breaking Plan B and didn't care if it would upset him or not.

I e-mailed him back with: "I don't know how you can say that you love me. Your adultery is causing great pain. I don't know if you pray, but know that I am praying that you will choose to seek out God and ask Him for guidance. Normal = End your affair. Don't tear our family apart."

He hasn't contacted me again since.

From SL
I still doubt myself. Yes, WH also decided not to "bring it". but I still find myself faulting ME at times too -- more like, if I would have not been so blind to the red flags when he asked me to come home and stood up for the list of things I needed before he moved back in, things would have been different.

PLEASE, guys, don't let me fall back into that trap again. I was blind by my own eagerness to start working on the M again.

Lets see, he got a refinance, me paying part of his car payment and he recently bought himself a laptop. I feel scammed.

{{{{KIM}}}}

I know how you feel. Its good to see you leaning on God, let Him be your husband now.
I dont post often to you but I do read whenever you write. Your DS sounds wonderful, I know you can train him up to be a good man of faith and integrety.

Lil

You were scammed. But you know what is different now? You protected yourself all by yourself. You didn't have to be pushed to move off the train tracks. You recognize it now when someone is using you. It gives me such great peace knowing you have come SO FAR!! You are going to make it and your boy is lucky to have you to protect him.

And you can count on me to say something if I see you falling back into that trap again! Somehow I don't think you are going to fall for it again.