It sounds like a really good compromise to me. Best of all is all the shared time, and the inclusion of you as part of the lodge activity.

This forum is a great place for advice, but it is just that...advice. You need to feel what is right for you in your gut.

As for exposing, I think the general consensus is if the A is over and NC is in place, you do not need to expose anymore.

It would be good in my mind to attend more meetings with H so that people there know you and see him as a married man...not that it stops some people. It may also lay some fears to rest for you.

I have had to really LOOK at my H and his actions. There have been things that we have faced in early recovery that some people would have just said were unacceptable...but in the real world, sometimes things don't fit into the perfect recovery mold and sometimes it IS too difficult to get rid of everything that might be a potential doorway to another possible infidelity.

If your H is acting like a FORMER WS, then try to trust that a little. Not completely (he doesn't really deserve your complete trust), but some. If he starts acting wayward again...then you need to look at whether or not stricter EPs should be in place. For now, it seems like he is doing well.

HTM

Thanks to both of you, I feel quite a bit better. Time will tell whether I can begin to trust him again.

How is it going today? What things have you done for your recovery and what things have you seen as evidence of your H working on recovery? It's important to notice these things. They will help you to stay motivated.

Hope your day is going well. I spent two hours at Walmart helping three little boys decide how to spend their allowance money...

HTM

LOL well THAT sounds like fun!

Today is a pretty good day. I'm feeling pretty good.

Things we've done: we started marriage counseling yesterday, and it went well. DH likes her and was open and receptive. We've done a lot of good, open talking, which is a new thing for us. The first time we were in marriage counseling DH didn't like the therapist, and obviously wasn't being forthright either, since he was involved with OW at the time.

He's been open with his activities (which he never used to be), he's been receptive to my questions (normally he'd be defensive) and has been patient. He has no problem with me randomly checking his phone and email, whereas before he'd get really upset about me "invading his privacy." Anytime I bring up anything relating to the affair he's been attentive and openly discusses whatever I need, even when it clearly makes him uncomfortable. Everything he's said so far has checked out. I've been monitoring his computer activitiy via the keylogger, and nothing I would object to has happened. No texts or calls from OW, and none to her either (via cell provider's site).

I've been doing lots and lots of reading on here, I'm going to order a couple of Dr. Harley's books today. I've been MUCH more forthright with my thoughts and feelings, which is a HUGE relief. It's part of the reason we got into such a big mess to start with - I was squashing everything down. We implemented the POJA and being totally transparent. I've also really been thinking about what you said about his compromise being fair. I still feel conflicted, I think you're right...but I also had it in my head that if he was really wanting to work things out (and I know he does), he would come to me and say "ok, I'm willing to give it all up to work on us." The only thing I would have asked is he give up the Jesters. I'm trying to accept his proposal (and I do recognize even that makes huge changes for the better) and let go of what I had in mind. It's very possible that when I see things for myself more often, it'll all seem much less threatening. I'm open to that possibility right now, and hopefully the rest of the mindset will follow as trust is built up.

Thanks for checking on me!

This is SO true! For everyone.

How's your weekend going? Have you made sure to find time for fun with H? I hope so. The weekends seem to be a toss up for me...we either have a great time or we get into a BIG discussion and it goes downhill. I am trying to avoid those BIG discussions. Major LB!

Thinking of you.

HTM

Man you sound like us.

Our weekend was good - busy. He works Sun - Thu, I work Mon - Fri, so we only have Saturday off in common. We had a birthday party on Sunday afternoon for our youngest, who will be two on Tuesday. Saturday most of it was prepping for the party - shopping, etc. We've been carving out intimate time for us on a regular basis...usually when the kiddos are napping or something. We're in dire financial straits so we haven't had much of a chance to have a date night - but that should be changing soon. We've had lots of really good conversations...he's still trying really hard and appears to be up front with any questions I have, and is still being very patient. The number of questions I've had has dropped off, but I still have a few here & there.

Thanks for checking on me!

We've been broke most of our M and I have a couple of suggestions for date night. I read this book called Couples and the Art of Playing by Keith Hackett...he talks about how to play with your spouse and sets up some easy guidelines so that the date itself doesn't become a problem.

Here's the basics...

1. Date night is once a week for 2-4 hours (no longer cos then you might fight).

2. It cannot be a meal or a movie...not interactive enough.

3. You take turns planning and the one who isn't planning that week cannot complain if the planner drops the ball...they just make sure to plan their week.

4. If you are the planner, you have to plan something that you think your spouse will like, but not something that you know they will LOVE. You can't plan something you know that they will hate.

5. IF you are the plannee, you have to pretend to enjoy yourself even if it's not your idea of fun. You are there to enjoy the company, just like when you were dating.

6. You cannot ask each other how you liked the date (that comes at the end).

7. After two months of this, you make a list of the dates you had. You can each cross off any date that you didn't enjoy. No comments and no discussion.

8. Now you have a list of dates that you both enjoyed to start from for the next set.

Some dates that my H and I did (we did ours at home after bedtime for the boys so that we didn't have to pay for a sitter)...
* Play Legos
* Make an iMovie with family pictures and music
* Play a board game
* Play with playdough
* Give each other manicure/pedicures (yes, my H loved his)
* Make a scrapbook page (I did this with pics from the Navy for my H to buy in)
* Paint a room in the house
* Have a mud fight outside...really messy but totally hilarious!
* Build together with blocks

We've really had a good time with this. It's interesting how sitting on the floor with Legos can be so freeing...you just start getting into it and talking about all of your childhood memories. I think that one was my favorite free date.

HTM

Great ideas....building with Legos....I can totally see us doing that, lol.

We have board games too, I didn't even think of that. Duh!

Our entire marriage has been one difficulty after another. We had no idea how much that had built up until we got to talking about it. We do love each other for sure and both want it to work. Our younger son has GERD so even though he's 2 now, I've just barely begun to start to catch up on sleep. Financial difficulties, the mistakes we were making with each other....he's been commenting what an eye-opener this has been, and he really wishes we could have learned the lesson without the pain. We've had a lot stacked against us, but we're working at it. In an odd way things are much nicer than they've ever been. It feels odd to me that it's that way, but I'm enjoying it too.

There is a popular myth in our culture that if you don't 'trust' your spouse to be involved in certain activities, then you have a 'jealousy problem'. (BTW this belief in this myth is directly proportional to the rising divorce rate.)

It is also typical for a WS to want the BS to trust them again, quickly and easily (sometimes instantly).

What most WS's don't understand, and even some BS's don't get, is that there are certain activities that married people should give up in order to protect their marrige, not just marriages that have been harmed by adultery, ALL marriages.

The whole premise that a spouse should be allowed to do certain things, and that they only have ot give those thigns up temporarily if there's been a recent adultery, is wrong.

More and more marriage experts are stating that things like:

* going on business trips without your spouse
* going out to lunch with opposite sex co-workers
* listening to somebody of the opposite sex complain about their
spouse or relationship partner
* being involved in recreational activities that exclude your
spouse
* text-messaging and e-mailing somebody of the opposite sex

etc. destroy marriages.

Recovery after adultery does NOT mean the BS gets pressured into forgiving, forgetting, trusting again SO THAT the WS can resume the same activities that led to the adultery!

The BS wanting and needing the proper boundaries in place has nothign whatsoever to do with the BS supposedly being too suspicious or not trusting enough.

t/j
HTM,
Great Post--should be over on the recovery forum too if it isn't already.

I haven't put it over there...guess I don't think I belong there yet .

HTM

Something that my H and I did to prepare for a weekend with the guy that wrote that book was to make a timeline of our lives together. It was INCREDIBLE the amount of challenges that we had overcome. It really gave us a perspective on how strong a couple we really are. It might be a fun activity for you two to do. Kind of a "Look how far we've come together" thing.

I'm glad that you are starting to feel that connection again. And I can totally relate to the feeling of "enjoying" it but not really knowing how to say that without sounding sick. I definitely didn't enjoy HOW we came to where we are, but I do enjoy a lot of the things we are learning from what has happened.

I guess the old addage, "Whatever doesn't break us, makes us stronger" may apply here.


On the subject of what M should be like...
I completely agree with the comment about how people do not recognize the need for a life change when they marry. I think the myth you talk about has created a lot of the challenges that married people face nowadays. They look at these changes as restrictions or old-fashioned...when in reality, they are necessary precautions.

People talk about how divorce and adultery rates are on the rise because people view marriage as disposable. I think some of the problem comes from the fact that people don't see marriage as a life choice. It is a complete CHANGE of lifestyle.

Yes, I think that we can still be ourselves and have independent interests...but we must make HUGE efforts to connect with our spouse and stay disconnected from anyone of the opposite sex outside of our M. If you look at the "old-fashioned" lifestyle, you can see that those things were naturally a part of life. It wasn't acceptable for single women to socialize with married men or vise versa. Family was number one. When you had recreational time, it was spent in the company of people of the same sex, or with your spouse. Society expected you would follow these "rules" and it was VERY disapproving if you didn't.

I have to say, society makes it altogether too acceptable to be promiscuous, adulterous, and to divorce. Wow...and all that comes from a woman who went to a woman's college and considers herself to be a strong feminist.
HTM

I would agree with you, HTM.

I know that in our case, even though DH is keeping his old activities, the way in which he's doing them has changed drastically, and he's including me, which he really didn't do before (except on rare occasions).

Funny thing - I was seeing a therapist independently for a short period of time about a year before d-day. I remember very clearly the therapist saying to me - "well, you can be sure your husband won't cheat on you. Masons have extremely high moral standards - I know because my father was one as well."

Niiiccceee! Isn't it amazing how your perspective can change? I always used to think that if H were friends with another woman, all I needed to do was make sure she was aware of me and the boys, make friends with her, and all would be well. I'm still kicking myself for all the stuff I tried to do to be nice to OW so that she wouldn't be capable of an A with my H.

Hindsight really IS 20/20, isn't it??

I used to walk around with a sort of arrogance, thinking - well, our marriage may fail, but I'm confident the one thing my husband would never do is cheat. That's against the code of conduct for a freemason - and I know how seriously J takes that. What a moron. I thought I had an insurance policy.

I've since learned that anybody is capable of cheating - including myself.

I think if nothing else, MB teaches us that we are ALL fallible. I think it is one of the most important things you can learn...that EVERYONE is capable of cheating, no matter what their moral fiber consists of. If everyone were willing to accept this fact and take precautions against it, I think there would be a lot less adultery in the world.

I spoke with my brother when this all came about. He was so angry with my H that he refused to speak with him. He said "Nobody wants an adulterer in their family" and forbade me to tell anyone in his wife's family. My brother doesn't believe that he or his wife are capable of an affair. They have only been married for a year. I hope that he realizes that it isn't a weakness to admit that you are capable...in fact, I see it as a strength.

HTM

PS. My H went through the Mason's as a boy. I'm not sure what they call him, but he is a Mason who hasn't joined as an adult.

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. That's the biggest lesson I've learned through all of this - that NOBODY is immune. I also agree that if everybody realized that, there would be much less adultery (and therefore much less pain).

The group you described is called DeMolay - that's how my husband started out as a teenager too, and then just continued on to adult freemasonry.

I posted this over on the recovery board, and thought I'd post it here, too:

It's been a month since I discovered DH's EA. He immediately cut off all contact with her, and (long story short) we've decided to try to make things work. I've been doing a lot of reading on here, ordered a few Dr. Harley books, and we're in couples' counseling too.

I have a long history of severe depression, but had been in remission for six years or so. We're in financial disaster mode right now (re: bankruptcy/foreclosure), and I was handling it ok, but finding out about the affair was the straw that broke the camel's back and I'm symptomatic again. I called my PCP this morning and made an appointment to get started on antidepressant medication again, but his first available appointment is August 13th. That's sooner than if I were to try to get into the mental health center. Fortunately I respond to medications very quickly so I should start to feel better within a few days of starting it.

So my question (finally) is this - when I'm depressed one of the first symptoms I have is loss of interest in sex. I know this, but it's still a real struggle for me. It probably comes as no great surprise that FWH rated that as his number one emotional need when we did the EN questionnaires. He knows I'm struggling and understands. He offered to kind of put that on the back burner until I'm feeling better, but I don't feel that's necessarily the right thing to do - plus I'm afraid that'll cause us to get back into our old habits of me not meeting that need for him. So how do we deal with this? He doesn't want me to just have sex if I'm not going to enjoy it and connect with him, but I don't want him to feel neglected either.