Thanks, Queenie. The respectful tone is all Jennifer--what she has coached me to do. She wouldn't approve of the angry stuff in the middle, but this is the last one of these I expect to send, so I'm taking some liberties.

My lawyer tells me they expect the draft MSA by the 15th of August. I want it sooner.

I dunno SD. I do like the middle part. I think you very subtly put her in her place. The last part though - feels a little pathetic to me too. I see what Jennifer is saying, but it does feel like begging. Maybe that isn't all bad though. And Lord knows that there is nothing else at this point that you can do. You might as well go out with one more try.

Man, this has been a long road for you SD. I get tired just reading your posts. You've GOT to be drained by now.

And quit calling POSPM a meannie. You know that he is kind and caring, and has a heart. (Where's the puke button?)

I'm not really trying anything. I have zero expectation that it will make any difference. There is zero hope attached to this. This is just using Jennifer's language on the way out. If anything, it's the putting her in her place comments that are inappropriate for this message.

My latest goal has been to make it to the divorce still being open to reconciliation. I want to be able to tell my kids that I fought until the end. I want the high ground.

It costs me nothing. If she laughs it off, what do I care? I fully expect it to vanish into nothingness.

Well, I guess I really don’t see the begging. I see a pretty standard Jennifer/MB “keep the door open” message. Unfortunately, and I suspect you will agree, the message whether it had been Silverback Gorilla chest pounding macho angry or not, will have the impact of a gentle summer morning mist vs. the afternoon July summer sun. The receiver of the message does not have the equipment, desire or sophistication to understand it.

My battle was as a ship unexpectedly struck by an Exocet missile and somehow surviving. You and SL have fought the equivalent of the Battle of Verdun and the casualties have been very, very high. But, all battles must and do end. It’s time to end this one. You have done everything anyone could do.

But I do know this. Your daughter and son adore you. You are their hero. I was there. I saw it. I understand you want your kids to have a good relationship with your STBXWW and it will be nice if that happens. However, you have no control over this. SL, Cowgirl, BC have no control. I have no control and Wayzilla has all but destroyed her relationship with DD20 for potentially many, many years. It’s not our burden to carry any more.



I hope it is.

It’s time to end the war and start building a real future again.

What you said, amigo.

Sure, I could tear her a new one. I could make her feel really small, and she would deserve it. But she already IS small. Why should I pile on? To make myself feel better? I'm bigger than that. I KNOW who I am. You can't unsay things. I don't know what's going to happen a year from now.

Sending that (and I already sent it) won't affect my day to day life. Just because I said I'm going to try to hold the door open doesn't mean that I'm going to sit around pining for the SCQ. I'm not. No way. I felt great all day, including my trip home after I sent the email. I stopped in to the Whole Foods store on the way home, and it was full of attractive women without rings. The divorce won't come soon enough.

SD,

Question - What's the reason for the reply?

Really?

THE reason?

If it's to end the updates to the 'loan' issue, then state that this is your last update, tell her to go thru the lawyers and leave it.

If it's to put her in her place on things,,,leave the middle part.

If it's to leave the door open, then you may want to re-work some of the other parts.

So, that's why I'm asking.

We all, including YOU know that none of this is going to impact the fog in which she is lost. We all know she's just going to use it to justify her own actions.

You said you want to be able to tell your kids that you fought to the end. You can already tell them that, because you have. Personally, I think it would be more impactful to walk up to her in the hallway at court, take her hand, look her in the eye, and tell her that one last time that it doesn't have to be this way.

To me, your email, while 'leaving the door open', is more about pointing out that it's HER choice to screw everything up. Which, of course it is. That's a fact. As Chris says, she lacks the capacity to understand that. She will only take it as bitter and vindictive,,,,and will twist it to her evil wayward view.

If you are Ok with that, then it's your choice. Just had to throw in my 2 cents.

My bigger concern is how this is all making you feel & how it is impacting your overall well being. Will this give you some relief? Then do it!! Will this tighten up those shoulders around your ears? Then don't.

Take care of you!

Hi SD!

Hope you don't mind my throwing in my two cents...

SD, You must speak the truth to your children.

You did not do anything wrong.


I wouldn't bother replying to her ridiculous message earlier.

It would just add validity to it.

No judge in the world will say you need to talk nice about HIM.

What you think/say of/about POSOM is none of her business.


What if you just said, " I don't want this D."? Wouldn't that communicate the open door?



THIS is such a great point!

But, not one to make if you want to leave the door ajar.


educating

Sleep on it tonight.

And see what you think in the AM.

You're a good man, SD.

I dunno SD.. I can see the point that a lot of people are trying to make, and maybe it's a result of my WW sharing some of the same traits as the SCQ in that the only communication I get from her is nagging or criticisms these days.. which, like you, I largely ignore.

On the other hand, these comments are respectful, but also convey your true feelings. You're stating YOUR truth.. ultimately it really doesn't matter that the email is going to do little more than basically impact the surface of an already shallow target.

If nothing else, it may give her pause before she sends another one of her pot shots in your direction.

I'll update my thread with the weekend update and I'm sure you'll identify well with WW's recent attempt to ruin an otherwise wonderful day out with the kids.. it's like they can't stand the fact that life is going on, and going WELL without them.

In the end though, you and I, and the rest of the amigos all know how to handle it.. acknowledge how it makes you feel, cope with that, and get back to NOW.

Like it was said before, you're in the stadium lap on this marathon bro.. here's hoping that for YOU, it ends up feeling like a victory lap.

A little gerbil-lunging never hurt anybody.

Look, you have come a long way with the gerbil-lunging stuff. I don't see any reason, at this point, to pick apart your email and tell you where you went wrong, according to me. I don't think you went WRONG at all, just outside the bounds of MB a bit. You've been at this long enough to know what kind of reception that email will get.

In my case, I'm not trying to hold onto my love for Waffling Zombie anymore. I suppose I just don't have the desire to go thru another attempt at recovery right now. It's done. You, on the other hand, have not had the false recoveries, so maybe you can lock that love away somewhere for the future, even if it's only for a parenting friendship, after POSOM makes his exit.

Hang in there, SD.

Hurt people, hurt people.

SD:

You have never been in a true dark Plan B.

So, you answering her stupid email is within reason.

Three steps in that one:

1. Info part: No more Loan info.
2. Its HER fault.
2. WE can fix this.

Nothing wrong with that construction.

Heck, I might even propose that you send a verbatium taxt of WHAT you told DD5.

You have it here about 5 pages back.

But, like Chrisner says, she wouldn't understand anyway. She would just she it like she has anyway, you beating up on her BF. And exposing the hypocrisy of her position to her children.

Lets us know of the fireworks that your email creates.

I could probably see them from here....

LG

Yeah.....probably best to put on the old Alamogordo shades about now.


LG - When I was a kid I had a color poster of the Iowa in full broadsides. You can see in the ship's wake that it is being pushed sideways 30-40 feet.

It hung right next to my Easy Rider (Fonda, Hopper, Nicholson) poster.

Oh yeah, and I once participated in an alternate history wargame where the Iowa and Bismarck with escort took on the Yamato with escort. What a bloodbath!

Wow, lots of great comments (as usual). Thanks to all.

Yeah, I asked myself this one, too. And you're right, it's not strictly MB, and if it's not going to be strictly MB, why do it?

I'm glad you read it that way, because that's the way I wrote it. It's multi-functional, and also addresses the

It's not the first time she's annoyed me this way (cf. sippy cups), but I don't think I've ever responded. I thought it fair to warn her not to do it again.

I thought about including the exchange with DD5--I could write the whole thing out in such detail as to make her feel very defensive and small, but it felt like piling on. It wouldn't penetrate, anyway.

Marsh, I love it when you drop in (you, too, LG). I know it's educating, but that's okay with me. Like I said, it's not strictly MB. I think I know what Jennifer would want me to say here, and I think I could go through this email and deconstruct it the same way you guys have, but I think it says what I want it to say. And it accurately reflects how I feel. I wonder what Schoolbus would say about it.

Yep.

I guess I don't even see this as gerbil-lunging because I know there is zero chance she will respond to the "begging" part. For me, this email feels like "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

I have moved from the "seeking reconciliation" phase to the "open to reconciliation phase," as James coined it. I think I called it Done For Now. How long does the door stay open? I don't know, but I'm no longer doing anything to hold it open.

I feel really good again today. Alive. I think this let me work in some of the things I would have said in a Plan FU without actually going Plan FU.

You know what? I predict a fizzle. She's very passive. It took her a full week to work up a response to the POSOM is mean comment.

I sent the email late afternoon yesterday and haven't heard a peep. Today the kids have swimming lessons, which she takes them to even though it's my day (she signed them up at the university, where she works and can park, so she takes them), and she will have to bring them to me at work, which means a face-to-face transfer, which means some kind of communication, but I haven't heard anything yet.

I guess we'll see.

SD,


Then it was a good thing to write and send. End of story in my book.

Well, unless those fireworks start up after a brief intermission.

I'll see if James is around to bring the popcorn for the show. I have a bottle of champagne in the fridge all ready to go.

Seriously,,,good for you if it's been helpful.

{{SD}}

SD,

I wouldn't have sent that email. Sorry I'm late to the party.

Oh well.


The email won't do any good. From reading her emails, I can tell you where your WW is right now.

She believes she is completely entitled to what she is doing. She has the belief and mindset that what she is doing is "FOR ME!" and that if she is not happy, then she will not be good for anyone else, including the children.

She is chastising you for telling the children the truth, because the one thing she cannot stand to hear is the absolute truth coming back at her from their mouths. She knows it when she hears it, and will fight those truthful words from them for everything she is worth. The unfortunate thing that I see in what she writes is that she has no intention of changing her mindset - it is "me, me, me", and it can be seen in her attitude toward the money.

You see, in the emails that go back and forth between the two of you, her focus is money. Not kids, not what is happening in their lives, not missing them, not checking in on them. It is singularly money. Her focus is NOT protecting the children in her rather lengthy chastisment of you, either. Take a real close read of that email.

Look very closely at who is being defended in that email. It is NOT the children.

It is POSOM.

She defends POSOM in the email first, and to a lesser degree her own "privacy" (the sentence discussing keeping "others" out of her life). The focus of the email superficially is to chastise you, right?

Sort of. That is how it is supposed to come off. Under the surface you find GLARING defense of POSOM. Let's look.

She defends him to the child - read the sentence where she discusses how the child talked about POSOM being "mean". Now, imagine the conversation she had with the child, and her anger level. The paragraph here is about her anger about POSOM being called MEAN, and not about the child being dragged in between the two of you. Don't mistake the two problems.

Then, she goes on to talk about the issue of the house, and POSOM having thrown his wife into the street. Again, imagine the conversation with the child, and how she must have had to explain POSOM's behavior, and her own, and the inner goings-on about the affair and divorce, etc., and POSOM's crumbling marriage, too. She is angry about having to defend POSOM to the child, and is now defending him to YOU. This, again, is NOT about keeping the kids out of anything.

Further, she goes on about keeping people (others) out of her life and activities. She doesn't want people to know details of what has happened, or what is really going on. She is worried and upset that you might be in contact with POSOM's wife. (She has, BTW, tipped her hand here. Use this to your advantage.) There are obviously ugly things that she does not want publicized, and perhaps some violence between OM and OM's W? Things don't look good, and she is hiding things from you, the kids, and others. And this sentence is where she defends herself and her lifestyle choice - her "privacy".

The chastising is done for the specific purpose of making it appear that she is a much more concerned parent than you are, and of course to attempt to build a paper trail for court. She is trying to show that you are saying things that are destructive to her relationship with the kids, and that she has TRIED TO WARN YOU. In reality, she's trying also to build herself up to look better than you. But she protests too much, and comes off looking very controlling. And witchy.

As for the email exchange regarding the loan. IMHO, she is having money problems, and POSOM is, too. They are relying very heavily on this money - probably because the house that he just threw his W out of costs more than the two who are in la-la-land planned on. See, the fog makes budgeting that much harder. Idiots.


SB

Thanks, Schoolbus. I think you are spot-on with that assessment, although I confess I only read her email a couple of times before deleting it. She is so far gone it's easy to dismiss it as Fog-laced Venom, but I welcome the insights.

I guess I was also curious as to whether anything jumped out at you from the email I sent her. Kind of an introspective question. Maybe it's not a good idea--is this the equivalent of asking BrambleRose for an assessment of how you're doing?

As always, your insights are appreciated.

At noon I got a TM from her saying she would drop the kids off at my work after their swim lesson. Should be about a half hour or so. I will be jovial (to the kids).

It's hard to know what to believe here. WW has always painted OMW as a bipolar nut job, but whenever I have talked with her on the phone she seems sane. Or as sane as someone can be dealing with an actively wayward spouse without the protection of Plan B.

It's possible that she really is unbalanced and is on the upswing when she talks with me. It's also possible that she has been unfairly characterized as unbalanced in order for POSOM to get a better divorce settlement. I don't know which the reality is, but I tend to think it's the latter, and that POSOM is really an evil [censored].

I don't even want type out what I know about them (OMW won't get any alimony, maybe as part of the agreement to get some custody of her children back?)--what I've heard and what I'm afraid of. It will make me want to get more info and try to help, and I don't think it's what I should be doing. The OMW left me a VM a month ago or so, but I never returned her call for the sake of my own mental health.

The SCQ will be getting a large check very soon. It's entirely likely that she will flush it all down the infidelity toilet, but there really isn't anything I can do about it.

SD,

Here's my analysis of your email to SCQ. What I think you are thinking is in red. I want to add I have not kept up with your thread, and have only read the last few pages of it in order to get the gist of her emails to you, so I could see what the communications have been lately. I purposely did not read anything other than her emails, so that I could not color my analyses. This analysis is based solely on your emails to and from her, and this one in particular. It is important to know this, so that you understand that what I write is a look at what your feelings are UNDERNEATH what you have written.

It may expose things about you which you do not want exposed, or which you may wish to further explore. I apologize in advance if the analysis hurts you in any way. I'm doing the best I can with limited samples from you, so here goes. If it seems WAY off, then, I'm WRONG! Sometimes that happens.



They are ready to draw up the loan papers, and they should be ready for signature next week. I find it interesting that you give no greeting. You just jump in without an opening sentence, or anything. That usually indicates anger, withdrawal, or tension. In this case, likely all three. I believe in your case you are likely moving toward completely withdrawing from your wife. The lack of greeting shows exasperation.

This is the last loan update you will get from me. The details are done—the rest of it can be handled through our lawyers. Straightforward, communicates fact.

It is too painful for me to discuss with you on a day-to-day basis. This is an attempt to get her to understand the pain that she has caused you. I believe you have likely said this in other communications in one way or another, as it is presented out of context in this paragraph and rather suddenly in the flow of information. You jumped right in with it, and the change to the "feelings" from the very rigid and factual two opening sentences is quite a change in direction. This is where the truth of the email presents itself. In reality, the truth of the message is that you just are too pained overall to talk to her day-to-day at all.

Also, please do not send me any more messages that can be construed as criticism of my parental decisions. Now, you are punching back about the previous email. Which bothered you and you said you were going to ignore. But it hurts you when she criticizes you - because you still chase her approval. So when she pushes that button, you push back, taking the bait. This sentence should not look so good now, and I apologize for having to tell you this - after the email was sent. She will not listen to the sentence, and she now has confirmation of the weakness in you and will continue to punch at the bruise.

You are the only one who wants this divorce. It is not what I want. It is not what our children want. It is not what our families and friends want. It stems entirely from choices that you have made. Here you reiterate what you have said before, and you reach out to her. The change in feelings from anger in the last paragraph to a sense that you are wanting to reach out to her is not carried off here. You missed the mark. While your thoughts might be that you wanted to try to reach out, your cadence and tone here are accusatory. There is a repetition of what others want, and emphasis on her being at fault by poor choices. Again, anger shows, and the tension is rising in the email through this paragraph.

When I look at DS8 and DD5, for the life of me I can’t imagine why you would choose to cut your time with them in half,
You became judgmental here, and the anger rises
and I can’t see how I will ever forgive you for stealing half of their lives from me. and now, you are at full-blown anger, telling her she has stolen from you. Lovebusters here. What I read in this email now is the true anger and distance you feel from her, that you do not know if you can forgive her. I see you withdrawing from you wife, as I noted above - right at the very first sentence, and I hadn't even read this part yet. Your withdrawal from your wife is now exposed, and if you want to save any love for her, I think you should stop corresponding with her altogether.

To say nothing of the absurd lifestyle you have chosen for them to grow up in--DS8 and DD5 are the biggest victims of all. And you finish the LB.

Even now, it does not have to be this way. Even now, I would choose to recover our marriage if you would make that choice with me. I know that we would succeed, recreate a family in which DS8 and DD5 could thrive rather than adjust, and that the two of us could be happy with each other again. Wait a minute. You just told her you didn't know if you could forgive her. Yet, now you change the feelings again? Nope. Because you ERASE THIS paragraph...... watch for it.////

Love is a choice, not a feeling.

I will continue to hold the door open for as long as I can.
You erased it, right here. Where you wrote "for as long as I can". See, you qualified your statement. That clause erased the first part of the sentence, because it exposed your underlying thought, which is that you are moving toward withdrawal. That you are angry, exasperated, and losing your love. And the email shows it.



So that is why I would not have sent the email.

And why you absolutely need to go very very very very DARK right now, if you expect to hold on to any love for her.


SB

Thanks, SB. That's pretty much what I thought as well. It's possible that some part of me wants to burn up whatever love is left.

Anyway, here's the reply I got from the SCQ:

I ignore this, right?

She has no chance of being able to enforce this. The language in the mediation document only refers to negative comments about HER, and I have not made negative comments about her. I would even be willing to defend what I HAVE said about POSOM, but there's no point in getting mixed up with the SCQ over this, right?

I think it just shows that I made her angry, and she's trying to get back at me by threatening what I value the most.

Hey Schoolbus, that was amazing work! Exactly what I thought too…uhhhh…ummmm…..right after I finished reading your post.

Well SD, (taking off Alamogordo shades) that went over like a fart in the airlock.

“Hi. Can you say narcissist? Sure. I knew you could.”

Dude. She is Her Royal Highness the Sippy Cup Queen. You just got fired as the Court Jester. Schoolbus is right. She only thinks of herself now. The kids are behind POSOM and the money. POSOM is behind the money. She is now the star of Margret Mitchell’s lesser known work, Gone for Good.


Yep


Nope


NOOOOOOOOOOOOO POINT AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!

Total darkness now. Nothing else will help. You did all Jennifer advised. Save yourself from this madness. Please.

A better life waits for you.