I kinda like the term atheologist, and I'm a believer. In God, not atheology.

AGG, okay, Mike wants us off of his thread, so I'll make this brief since you brought it up here.

NO, anyone, regardless of their faith, CAN recover their marriage. Regardless of one's faith, recovery is HARD, and it takes commitment from BOTH spouses. Suffice it to say that whatever Mike's previous involvement with MB and "MB methods" do not seem to have worked, but they still can if there is a real commitment by both of them, not just one of them.

The "issue" is that Mike is an atheist who wants "bible thumpers" (I guess his word of distain for anything religious) off of his thread, baits with sarcastic arguments such as his "Koran" thing, BUT he has NO compunction about having her pastor "bible thump" her.

Get the feeling? It's NOT okay for anyone to mention God, but it's okay for him to "use" God for his purposes. He brought up her wife's faith, he intiated the involvement of her pastor, he ignored early questions to his own faith status so we would know whether or not to talk about that sort of stuff, then he goes on the attack when he finally does "cough up" the information that he is an atheist. But I guess we are all at fault for not having been mindreaders.

That's why it's (his position as a atheist married to someone who professes to be a believer) an issue. It's an issue of "manipulation" and "control" over his wife that has nothing to do with forgiveness and a real attempt at reconciliation and recovery.

If you want to go into this any further, I would suggest another thread so as to not be insensitive to Mike's request that "religious talk" be kept out of his thread.

Seven years later, I still love you, man. You got to catch me up on your life.

I made the decision in haste out of pity and I think it was too early.


Well, our downstairs guest suite is almost 1000 sf, jacuzzi, walk-in shower, sauna so it is hardly a bed of nails.

omigod on message *edit*

In reading this thread, I did not at all come to the same conclusions as you did above.

For one, he never went on "the attack", he simply asked the "bible thumpers" to stay off his thread, then tried to explain to you (in what you termed sarcastic, that he did not come from the same belief system (frame of reference you do) and used one who follows the Koran as an example.

Two, talking to his wives pastor is not using God for his own purposes. He doesn't believe in God, so using him for his own purposes is what? a ridiculous assumption? A pastor's job is to minister to his congregation. Mike seemed to be very concerned about his wife's state of mind, as in his statements about her putting a gun to her head. He said she was very close to her minister. If I were worried about my husband I would turn to his closest friend, or minister if it were, for help, too.

Anyway, enough of that.

Mike,

You said that your wife was a good mother, wife, community member, volunteer, etc for all those years, although she was short in meeting your E/N's. I have my own ideas about E/N meeting and how good a spouse is being measured by them, but that's another thread.

You also said that no one could believe her affair, even saying they thought she might have a brain tumor.

I don't know her, so don't really what kind of a woman she is, loving or otherwise, but you do.

If this is an aboration in character of the extremes her friends and family seem to think it is, then it is classical affair stuff.

Affairs are extremely addictive in nature.

So don't open your heart all the way just yet, demand transparency...be deligent on the transparency thing.

She may have ended it now, but experience tells us that given the chance at this state of withdrawal, she may succumb if the OM will let her.

And with that said, I am so glad that things are looking hopeful.

Oh, and make sure that you both are clear with each other in what you want/expect/hope for in your marriage going forward. It's almost impossible to read your spouse's mind. So with all the intoxicating make up stuff going on, talking about such things should come easy at this point. Intimacy is not a problem at the moment. So use it to communicate clearly.

Oh, btw, did you see JL's post a few pages back? I never saw your response to it and thought he made some really good points in asking you to get clear with yourself in what you need and want from a spouse.

Welp, that's my .02... Good luck to you both .

Mike, the point wasn't sleeping on a bed of nails. It was that it's rude and tacky to kick someone out of bed after having sex. If you wanted to make your wife feel like a wh0re, you have sex with her than tell her she's not good enough for your bed. I can totally see how you may want her to feel like she's trash. However, making her feel cheap and like garbage won't save your marraige.

If you want her to stay in the downstairs suite, I'm all for it. Maybe if you have sex down there with her until such time as she's welcome in your bed it would be better.

Is pity bad? I actually wouldn't call it pity, I'd cal it mercy. And we know about the quality of mercy don't we?

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;

Emphasis added just in case someone gets lost in the beauty of the language, as I do. No one ever has said it better than Shakespeare.

If the decision was in haste, consider ways you can mitgate it. I actually like the apartment deal. And maybe you two come to an agreement about how much time you each spend in the common space and what's off limits to her. For now, nothing really should be off limits to you because you need to do due diligence in making sure she's towing the line. However, you may need some time and space away from her.

Also, just slow down. There is no reason at all why you need to give an answer to anything immediately. "Let me sleep on it" and "I need to think about this for a couple of days" is a legitimate answer. If you make this your default answer to everything, then you buy time. You can always come back in an hour with an answer, but you are less likely to be manipulated if you buy time.

Yes.

Beautiful and relevant Shakespeare quote, Greengables.

I'm going to have to go one that I am thinking of now as well. Hope I can find it.

brief t/j
Hmmm...I hardly think he considers ANYTHING religious as a bible thumper, since he himself refers to the Koran; therefore, he'd want to kick himself off his own thread. More likely, he wants people off his thread who show their own disdain for anyone who doesn't follow their agenda.

From Wikipedia:
Bible thumper (also Bible beater, Bible basher, Bible humper) is a term used to describe Christian fundamentalists, or anyone perceived as aggressively pushing their Christian beliefs upon those who do not share them. Its target domain is broad and can often extend to anyone engaged in a public show of religion, fundamentalist or not.

See also:
Anti-Christian discrimination
Fundie
Holy roller
Jesus freak

I hardly see someone who is concerned for his wife's religious well-being who contacts her minister as using God. I see him as someone with compassion for his wife, despite what she has done to him. Pretty much the opposite, kwim?

Josie,

Good post.

JL and I are corresponding via email so the back and forth here is choppy.

Just FYI, I've know JL and K since about 1999 or so....

Never thought I'd need them...

Actually, I told her that I felt good with her when we were talking os cuddling or etc, but if she was asleep next to me the evil thoughts about the OM would be too much.

She totally understood and has no prob with it.

And I didn't even use Shakespeare on her.

GG,

Thanks for the input.

Right now everything is normal for the family. She is spending a lot of time with me in the master bedroom, and just sleeping downstairs. We don't need any rules about common areas or whatever, we aren't hating each other, in fact it is very lovey-dovey, approaching nauseam.

She's singing for her supper.

This might have made sense if it weren't for the fact that the chicken came before the egg - he asked bible thumpers to stay off his thread only after you said that the issue at hand was his being a closet atheist and not having a relationship with God.

I cannot disagree with him being annoyed by someone whose response to his wife's affair is "well, how close are you to God?".. I think my first response would also be "WTF???".

AGG

Would be happy to catch you up, it's been a very long time indeed.

AGG

lol....well struck.

You are a good poster, pariah. What's your story?

Mine's pretty dramatic and fractured.

Long story short, married boss chases my wife, toxic friend of wife who is having an affair of her own ENCOURAGES wife to have an affair, I suspect something's up for a year or so, I gather evidence, get her trying to have OM kill me on tape, I get near fatlly wounded in a hunting accident, spent three months in the hospital, when I can barely walk again I extort OM with exposure, he refuses, I do a nuclear exposure on Christmas Eve, wifey dumps me off on the side of the road crippled in the middle of nowhere, I expose to our church and they "advise" me not to return as it's not good for their "image", she divorces me.

Since then OM dumped her at exposure and didn't leave his wife and rescue her, she lost her job, lost our house and is moved in with her father.

(sensory overload)

TJing:

Pariah, you'd better write it down and send it off to the copyright office. I think your story would make an excellent screen play. The only question is whether you want to write it as a drama or a dark comedy. I personally vote for dark comedy. Plus, your character would hook up with a MUCH better, gorgeous, sweet woman in the end. And your pet could have a starring role.

I like it. Kathy Bates as the wife, Danny Devito as the boss. Chistopher Walken plays the preacher. The Kumar Indian guy plays Pariah.