Oh, please, Mike - Danny DeVito?

I know. So cliche.

I was going to cheer Pariah up and say his wife would be played by Ed Asner in drag.

My ex-wifey is one of those girls that was a gymnast in high school and still looked 25 at 40.

However we divorced at 44 and her shelf life is really starting to show.

She had dreams of working on a dive-cruise boat, but tourists want the 20 year old hot chick, not the 44 year old has-been trying to get them to fawn over her and hop into bed with the tourists or the crew mates.

She ain't gonna catch herself no sugar daddy now, unless he has one foot in the grave and senile.

Mike, if what you say is true about your job and house, she'd be all over you like stink on a gorilla, except she'd EXPECT you to support her hobby and it would be a total independent behavior.

send pic

Mike,

I am sorry to have to read this situation as well. . . and yes, i am a card carrying atheist, and had to go through something similar. However, I suspect that the more self control and less revenge control you can show, ie. more leadership within the family you can show, the better able the kids can learn from and not carry this damage into adulthood. . .

YOu have plenty of time to divorce your wife, several to many years. You don't have much time left to show your children how to manage a family crises properly or well, before they leave. . . which is how K and JL want to help you manage. . .

And this is the best time to figure out if you can make a lasting connection/relationship with your W to carry you through retirement. . . although I understand your wife's disconnect, as my X had the same different lifestyle version. . . but my X had reasons to want blue collar, no collar wife beater, people, so she can be the boss in charge, her female relatives all married cousins of casper milquetoast. . . back to you news reel. . .

take the opportunity to see if you can forge a relationship which will carrythrough retirement, and show your family how to lead through crises. . . that people can recover and learn from big mistakes. .. and what can lead to mistakes. . .

you have all the power right now in the relationship. .. don't abuse it and don't squander it. . .

good luck

wiftty

WIFTY...

I remember you...long time....8 years?

Your post is very wise. My kids have been scarred. We took them to their pastor this AM.

You are right. The situation is in my hands, and whatever I do will have everyone's understanding and support, basically.

So the best thing right now is to gather data and let things cool, I guess.

I find that the current situation is very easy to plot....when she is all over me with affection and attention it is easy to forgive. When I'm alone, at 1:59 am, it is hard not to hate....

After reading this thread I just want to say there is plenty of time for "Remorse and Restituition". It seems you are very angry and doing some things based on those "feelings". It is OK to be angry, but do not do anything that does not add love to your wife's love bank. For every action think "How is this going to add to her love? or will it take away from her love?"

If you concentrate on the negative, angry things, she will tire of trying to pleaase and eventually destroy you again. This is guaranteed. Look at her affection/attention as an opportunity. Put away the thoughts of remose/vengeance/anger/etc. Years from now, your will have the remorse you are looking for.

The end game is not now, it is creating something viable for a lifetime.

WIFTY,

I am an ENFP, and my wife is an ISTP, so three different, but frankly I think she lied on the 4th one anyway.

I'll have to look at that program again, it was amazing.

Mike_C2

Your reaction is very understandable as an ExFx, as you feel more deeply than your W (F) and express more loudly (E) then her, depending upon upon how far to the F and how far to the T you two are on the scale. However, Ts do feel, (I am an INTP) it just takes much more hurt or a bigger incident to force expression of any feelings, and your behavior and the family's behavior have pushed your W from the normal T reaction into her F reactions . . . that's the difference you see between your observed reaction of your W initially making dinner, and her current reactions of crying and sobbing. . .. . . .

That being said, you have the ability to understand your W more than she does. . . because you are an xNxP. . . and in that respect, you have the ability to understand her and help her lead the family out of crises. .

Another important point that you need to remember, is that at her age, your W's hormone levels are starting to drop, and that changes people, as I am aware of my hormone levels dropping also. My GF, who is very in touch with herself, discusses her hormone changes to me. . . as your W's hormones slowly drop, and her family is starting to become more independent, primarily the kids, her interpretation of the world is probably changing and right now may be different that yours, and that is a very real issue with which to deal. My X refused to admit to menopause, even though she had the crying jags over nothing. . . etc. So internally, if she is not in touch with her body and her feelings, the affair may have been unintended medication to her internal changes. .

If you want an secondary explanation of affairs, which is more diverse and exploratory than the Harleys', read "Private Lies" by PhD Dr Frank Pittman, a practicing psychologist who deals exclusively with affairs. . . and i paraphrase from reading along time ago, accidental affairs, with remorse and understanding, are more common than realized, and are the easiest to recover from. . . habitual are the hardest, of course, but habitual are learned beliefs from childhood. . .

Finally, your view of your W, from several of your descriptions, is one of physical attractiveness, and dedication to her family, which is good, but her view of you is the key to your understanding. She appears to have low emotional esteem, given her initial responses and the person she chose (less intelligence), which might mean that she needs different support than you have been giving her. Items to explore in marriage counseling. . .

So there are several potential issues for you and her to come to an understanding, and then, once these unobservable issues, are openly discussed, and communed upon, then real healing and long term decisions can be made. . .

good luck.

wiftty

Wiffty, this was a brilliant post, right on the money.

Can I email you?

AGG has my email. . .

interpret neurological issues as latent, genetic tendencies. . . meaning new genetic issues appearing. .

wiftty

wiffty, AGG said he misplaced your email....could you send it to him again? Or K or Kam...I'd like to talk with you.

KAM has my email address, though i will be travelling, so you also have my work email. . . and its monitored, so no pictures. .

wiftty

I want to apologize for snapping at people last week. I can only claim....heck, you know.

Anyway, any and all advice welcome. We have a first counseling session with Jennifer in two hours (and three minutes).

Everything has been "ok", a few emotional breakdowns by me but not LBing. She has slept with me the last two nights but that is still an open issue. In fact not really sure she wants to, says it is "up to me".

Sex was a bandaid and that is wearing off I think...still every day...the one day we skipped I had an emotional crash, not manipulative, for real.

ENs and LBs process is going all right. Went to church with her....it was pretty good, actually.

She is saying all the right things, that as soon as her "confusion" wears off things will be better than ever, etc...

We'll see in two hours (and one minuite)....

Update for all those I haven't offended.....

Typical rollercoaster I guess. I tried to throw her out on Tuesday, she melted down, literally begged, promised the world, she'll throw herself in MB.....I relented. Told her she had to: 1: get on anti-deps, 2: get an STD test, 3: take more of the lead in scheduling MB etc, and 4. uh....I forget, there was a 4.

Next day I'm mushy and she is more distant.

On and on, flip and flop, emotions a wreck. She says each day will make it better. Doubts I'll forgive her, She's probably right.

Life Sux.

Ok, I'll bite.

I'll take a chance at posting to you again (in short: forgive) if you take a chance on her attempts (in short: forgive).

Please let's not get into an argument on the requirements for earning repentance, etc. I like your list of things she must do. I'm just saying, a nice symmetric but overly-simplistic way of phrasing it is, I'll forgive you if you'll forgive her.

If there's really no hope that you will ever forgive her, why keep her twisting in the wind? For revenge?

Of course there's not really an issue of whether or not I "forgive" you... like I said, overly-simplistic, but I do love the symmetry...

I haven't really pondered the dynamics or odds of forgiveness. Jennifer Harley says if you both fall in love and meet each other's needs etc all is naturally forgiven.

I guess that makes some hopeful sense, and my wife immediately parroted it back to me when we were arguing so I guess she gets the concept.

My behavior is the problem. I go from angry to weepy and cold to needy. I know I am letting my Taker rage and manipulating to get what I need with extreme behavior. I tried it on anti-deps and tried it off them.

It still feels like a knife in my hear every second of every day. Or actually, except for about an hour a day when we are in bed talking or whatever.

She is trying to make the family life go back to "normal" her words, and somehow I rebel at that instinctively.

And, yes :-), her pastor has been great and I'm talking one on one with him a lot.

I can certainly understand why you'd rebel at her wanting to get the family life to simply go back to normal - act as if it never happened - it did, and there are consequences. Your feelings are valid, you've been hurt deeply, she can't just pretend that never happened...

...typical wayward-speak to want to just get back to normal.

It's your raging Taker that scares me though. I'm sorry you're hurting so. I'm glad you're working with Jennifer Harley and talking to her pastor. I'm glad you recognize that you're letting your Taker rage. Do you think it helps you? (not being sarcastic) Do you think you will get to the point where it's more important to you to achieve happiness in your life than to punish WW? Whether that happiness is through R the M or through letting go.

mike, are you like this in other aspects of your life? Were you like this as a kid? I'm talking about the righteousness and swift, deliberate execution of penance. That's not a criticism, but an observation. I see so much of it in you, and it makes me wonder if that is simply a reactionary self-protection mechanism you learned in childhood. Something that worked then, but that may no longer be appropriate. I get the sense that, at least pre-A, you know what you want, you take it, and you accept nothing less. Some would call that aggressive, others tenacious. It's a great way to get the best parking spot, but I wonder if it's the right approach in your R with your wife.

My H is somewhat like that - swift and deliberate - and frankly, it distances me from him; keeps me from trusting him to be there for me, because I fear that if I don't offer him what he wants, it'll be me paying the price. So he doesn't get my affection/trust/loyalty, as I'm always waiting for the axe to fall.

What do you think?

Some things that people taught me when I was going through this stage.....

The waves of anger. I kept a To Do List handy that used the anger in constructive ways. There's a lot of energy with anger....and if it's focused effectively, it can make light work of heavier chores and/or projects. I kept a list because when a wave of anger hit, I wasn't able to think clearly enough at that time to figure out what to do with it. Choosing something off a list was much easier. My rule of thumb was if I couldn't decide, then do the first thing on the list.

The waves of weepy. My first choice was to stand under a hot shower and let the water rinse away my tears as they flowed. Or to turn on a sappy movie and cry over it (not my norm). I kept a supply of onions on hand to chop when people were around and I couldn't get away....for a while we had a lot of dinners that used onions whether they were necessary or not.

Cold to Needy. I kept a list of self-care things like reading a book, relaxing in the bathtub by candlelight, drinking hot coffee or hot chocolate, watching a movie while wrapped tightly in a blanket, listening to loud music, listening to soft soothing music, etc. The same list worked for when I felt cold or when I felt needy....when I actually used the list, that is. I found that it was much easier to deal with my anger and weepiness than it was to accept responsibility for dealing with withdrawing or feeling needy.


I don't blame you for rebelling against that....the old "normal" sucked and led to infidelity, didn't it?

What do you think about opening a conversation with your wife about things that you might want included in a "new normal"?


I promise you that it gets better, Mike_C2. It gets better as we get better. Really.

Take care