Hi SD,


Don't be too hard on yourself, SD ...happens to the best of us... and you are at a higher risk given your frequent contact with SCQ... :RollieEyes:

Be sure you figure out how to 'compensate' for this, though, SD... and keep reminding yourself of measures to take to further help you minimize these draining exchanges with SCQ. It sounds to me you are paying too high a price afterwards.

....next time, before hitting the 'send' button....consider this, some food for thought I got awhile back (given to me by a very thoughtful, sensitive, caring DAD dealing with a WW and that I have 'stuck' on my agenda and read every day):

- breathe
- what would the purpose of engaging be?
- why is that important?
- will they listen to me?

....sounds familiar?

Great advice. Simply put.

Sometimes it's just best not to argue about it- even if we feel justified because it's not worth it.

For instance my son plays football-(his dad's idea mostly) and their team requires alot of practice. I mean four nights a week until past dark. Well this school year is starting off with and hour and a half worth of homework per night or more. Not sure how he's going to do football and keep his grades up. We've had this discussion before and my ex never agrees with me, but this year is harder. My son is having to study for the first time in his life. Rather than email ex about this now I'm going to see how his papers and his progress reports come back before I approach the subject. Because I know if I email him and we get into a big discussion then I'm going to get all torqued up and the end result will be the same because he won't listen to me- until he has proof it's hurting his grades ( I do not see how it can't- we did homework all weekend this weekend).

I told POM this before and I'll tell you. Reframe the way you think about her if you can. Think about her as the mother of your kids- and not WW. I'm not suggesting that you let her get away with anything outrageous by any means but pick and choose what's worth it to your emotional well being to get into it about.

I know that's hard to do and I'm sorry you're having to struggle with it.

I coulda swore I heard something about a Speedo....? Hmmm...uh, anywaaaaay.

I think Luna gave you some sage advice, as well as coachswife. Your WW's response to your lack of response was prolly uncalled for, but stooping to her level only harms you. Since you only speak by email, give yourself ample time to reply to her rants.

When I receive email from the Zombie, I usually give myself a lot of time for revisions, rewrites and just plain cutting emotional stuff out.

A recent email exchange that we had did get rough, regarding the house, but BELIEVE me, the INITIAL response was much more scathing than what he received, and what he received didn't call names or such, just pointed out the obvious that he made this mess, and I intended to take whatever time I needed to make a sound decision regarding this very serious, and life altering event. I basically said that I wouldn't be BULLIED.

I'm sure I will flub up in the future, as I am human, as I believe YOU are too. Dust yourself off, ole boy, and keep movin on.

Again, thanks for your perspective, CW. It's not that I wish these consequences on the SCQ, but we BS's stand around for so long going "OMG, this is a train wreck I'm watching--she's going to regret this some day." In the pit of our stomach, however, we sometimes wonder "it's a mistake what she's doing, right?" I'm not sure why, but it's good to occasionally hear a reassuring "Oh, yes, she's making a mistake" from someone who knows.

I am so not ready to deal with teenagers, Fox. Fortunately, I have some time left. And you and pretty much everyone else are invited to threadjack any time you want.

Speaking of Fox,


BC, I officially present you with a Foxy Award for Special Achievement in Emoticography. I've been trying to figure out how to use that skeptical emoticon. That was exactly right. Just like Jack Elam.

Maybe there's an emoticon for the *crickets chirping* sound effect.

And, finally, yes, Luna (and SL and CW), that was some great advice you quoted there. From what fountainhead of wisdom did you get those words, anyway? This is, of course, why I was reluctant to post the details. I know better.

Hey, Bugsy, along those lines, you can whack me with the "What would Jennifer want you to do" stick if you want. I actually went through that thought process as well.

I'm joking for the most part--I'm not beating myself up much. Maybe I'll post some of the exchange. The end was interesting.

I feel pretty good today other than being a bit tired. I picked up DS8 from school and carted him over to day care, so I got to see both kids, which was nice. It's almost time for yoga. It's been a busy day, and I was trying to do some technical analysis at the end there, and the brain just wouldn't comply.

Thanks for stopping in today, everyone. And Lil last night (daytime NZ time, I'm guessing)!

hey ya,
at the moment I tend to be posting between 7.30-8.30pm.

I am pleased to hear your feeling a bit better.
WS's suck.
We need a spitting on the WS icon
Just kidding.
hope tomorrow's good for you too.

Lil

Perfection, absolute perfection. Award well-deserved.

The come-back from James was pretty darn good, too.


We've been on a pretty good patch lately. One little clash with DD14 yesterday while school clothes shopping. They really should make school clothes shopping with teenagers an Olympic Event. I'm dragging butt pretty badly this morning.

DDs seem to be unscathed by the process.

DD14 is off to WxH to babysit Babs' S8 on her one and only visitation day this week.



DD15 is still home sleeping. I'm so jealous.

Oh well.

Not much new to report. Just another day at the salt mine.



I'm not going to comment on the fact that you took some bait.

Oh, wait, yes I am. **snicker** **snicker*** (we need a snicker icon)

Here's the deal......



I realize getting along and not getting all warped about interactions with the waywards is important. HOWEVER (aka BUT), there is self-respect that is gained when standing up against them.

Sometimes, ENOUGH is ENOUGH and they need to know it from our lips directly!

Rap it up and let 'er loose. Then let it go.


:finger-drumming icon: Interesting, eh?

Fox

OK SD, there's no embarrassment at MB. If she said anything about physical attributes, certain behaviors, intelligence, or personal hygiene, we all know it's just wayward babble anyway.

So bring it on and we can tell you what we think.....

Don't keep us in suspense!

Yeah I feel like she will regret it one day- it may take a while. It's taken me a long time and counseling to deal with the guilt from my affair.

Because I remember how much I loathed clothes shopping as a child, I don't even take the kids clothes shopping--I just go on my own and kind of hope things fit. (Yes, I am a guy, but I do okay with it. As least, as far as I know).

But I like your idea. The shopping with teenagers would be an endurance event, but there could be a separate sprint event around shopping for boys under 12.



You're great, Fox. I'm so happy we're buds.

Okay, okay. I'll put something together. I probably oversold it, though. Gotta do some work first.

Some days I look forward to this period in WW's life..

Others.. I wonder if there's enough of a conscience in there that it will ever even be given another thought.

It's all about her pain.. how she's suffered through our marriage 'alone'.. and how horrible I've been since she decided to leave.

Yup.. horrible me.. truly a b@stard for trying to do everything I could to save our marriage, and our family, and fight for what's best for our children..

Maybe it'll come one day.. I just don't see it.. not with my WW at least.. starting to wonder if SCQ isn't the same breed..

As a side note.. Got some questions I may want to ask you one day SD.. offline.. something of a 'compare notes' thing.. seeing as you're several months ahead of me here.. been posting less and less of my sitch as the legal entanglements grow closer and closer.. but there will be updates coming.. just as soon as I can figure out how to 'safely' phrase them without tipping my hand.... heh.. just noticed in my sig... 1 year since DDay..

Feh... starting not to care anymore.

You may not ever know- but reality will probably bite her big time. I feel that I was as entitled as anyone who has an affair and I still came to the realization that I was very wrong.

sdguy0038@yahoo.com

I check it every couple of days generally.

Thank you, CW, for posting this.

I have absolute faith that my WxH will or has recognized how wrong he has been. I may never have "proof" but hearing those words from you help me confirm my conviction.

The waywards who were with all of the BS's here were good people at some time, or we would not have chosen them.

They have souls and they have feelings. Each one seems to have a different timeframe for finding this in themselves again.

Thank you for sticking around here and offering your valuable viewpoint, it is greatly appreciated.

Fox

Thanks Fox.

Sorry for the length.

Recall that the SCQ had already sent me a message last Wednesday about school coordination. This was the second.

SCQ: DD5 is of course in teacher's class in room 4. I am guessing you are still planning on going to school with them tomorrow. You can stop by and pick up the Kindergarten packet at her table spot. I left DD5's name project in the class for you to pick up tomorrow so she can see it. If you want to to it with her that is fine. Either way send it with her on Sunday since it is due Tuesday.

From the kindergarten packet I filled out and returned the grey contact card, green sheet about after school and lunches, and paid for a rest mat for her.

On Monday it will be a full day for DS8 but for DD5 it will just be an hour. She will meet with teacher and a small group of kids. At 8:45a she needs to be in the media center and teacher will come get the group of children while the parents do stuff at the tables to help with the class.

If you would like to take her on Monday let me know. We could meet at the school or I could drop her off at your house before taking DS8 to school.

If you get the information for DS8's class tonight please send it otherwise let me know tomorrow.

On Thursday and Friday, I took the kids to dentist appointments. Also on Friday, I took them to the school orientation. The kids were with me from Wednesday evening through Sunday morning.

Saturday. SCQ: It doesn't matter that I spoke to our children and know this information already (at least their version). You should have told me about DS8's class, that you had made dentist appointments, and the results of the appointments. The kids are not an information source and neither is day-care provider.

Saturday. SDG: I really like it when you remind me what I 'should' do. Would you like me to start reminding you what you 'should' do?

The kids had dental appointments on Thursday and Friday. DD5 had no cavities but needs to brush better and longer and floss. She will need braces at some point. DS8 got excellent marks for his brushing. He has one 'watch' spot. No cavities.

We found out yesterday morning that DS8 is in Mr. Otherteacher's class. You could have found this out yourself online, of course.

You're the one who chose to give up half your time with the kids. There are consequences for the choices you made. Don't blame me for them.

and then a few minutes later:

SDG: Look. Communicating with you upsets me. It ruins my day and affects my time with the children. I'm not able to be the father I want to be, so sometimes I choose not to send you the information as soon as you would like to have it.

It would have been easier to communicate the results of the dental appointment if, on the way back from it, DS8 hadn't told me that he saw your car and that you weren't driving it and that there were two people in it and that he was pretty sure he knew who they were, and I was the one who had to console him.

The SCQ sent me three emails in response.

SCQ: I will be taking DS8 and DD5 to school tomorrow. If you choose to come you choose to come.

SCQ: No I couldn't find it out online. It required a name and password. Remember the password that they were suppose to call your house and leave according to the mailing. If it is going to be a problem with you to communicate things that the school calls your house with I will change their home phone to my cell.

In order for you to remind me of anything I should do would require you to communicate with me which so far has been unbelievably poor. Using the kids, daycare-provider, and your mother as go betweens for communications and exchange of items is not communicating.

SCQ: It is an email not a conversation that needed to happen. I'm sure you had the appointments for the dentist on a day when you didn't have the children and could have sent me an email then so they wouldn't have to see you be affected by typing an email.

Of course DS8 knew who was in the car. The only reason he may not have said who is because of you and he knows how you get. It is unrealistic to expect the children to not talk about me and all that goes with me. You need to find a way that they feel comfortable doing it if that is what they need to say. Based on what they have told me you are not making the environment safe for them to speak freely. Your responses to them and things that you tell them are inappropriate using your false belief that it is your 'parental decision' to tell them anything you want.

SDG: I will bring DD5's name project and give it to her before school tomorrow.

I bought half-year lunch cards for both kids, a half-year milk card for DS8, and a full-year milk card for DD5. The total was $630. I got shirts and sweatshirts for them. I forgot to do the PTA thing.

I think I made the dentist appointments on either Wednesday or Tuesday. I probably should have told you when I made them, but it didn't occur to me. You know how I am. There was nothing nefarious about it. I was fully intending to tell you the results of the exams and would have done so over the weekend.

I have told you many times I don't want to communicate with you. My preference would be to not have *any* communication with you, but I tell you the stuff I think you *need* to know. It may not be as timely as you would like to have it. Again, you know how I am. Beyond that, you should figure out how to get the information yourself. I would prefer to get it myself. For example, you can probably have the school add your number to the outgoing call list without replacing mine.

Regarding talking with the children, I am very careful about what I say to them, and I have not violated the custody agreement, whatever you may think. When I asked them, both kids admitted that they felt they were not allowed to talk about POSOM, but when I asked them if it was because of something I had said, both of them said no. I never told them they couldn't talk about him. I try to make it safe for them to discuss, but they don't want to--they know that it is tied up with the demise of our family, and that's something that they don't want to talk about. I have even told them that it's okay for them to like him, but when DD5 asks me directly why I don't like him, I'm going to tell her. I've already told you I'm not going to lie to the kids. Then I gently steer the conversation away.

In case that last paragraph makes you angry, please don't take it out on me. When DD5 told me that "It's wrong for mommies to leave their families," I stood up for you. You are the only mother they have.

SCQ: : Thank you for taking care of the school stuff. I picked up a PTA form and can fill it out for myself. If you tell me to include you I will get a second directory for you (which will be sent to you thru DS8).

I'm not asking for much communication because I actually know and acknowledge that it is hard on you. All I'm asking for is the information that I cannot get myself, like I couldn't log in to get DS8's class information, that you made dentist appointments and the outcome, school things that come to you that will not be included in the online packet or the web site. Yes I get stuff from daycare-provider and the children but who knows if it is actually what you said or not. I'd rather get it right the first time and not have misinterpretations. If you had told me you had made dentist appointments but didn't get a chance to mail me the results until today when you didn't have the children I wouldn't have said anything. I would have had what they told me but would have been content to wait until you had time today to send an email. What the children say are probably close to the actually thing but they are children and may not get it quite right.

If you are actually trying to do the right thing with communicating with them then that is good. I know I do. I still believe the 'adult truth of things' may not be the correct thing to tell children because they are children and do not have the life skills to deal with/understand it. There is a difference between lying and using words and concepts that children are capable of understanding.

SDG: This is a stupid way to live. It is terrible for our children. It doesn't have to be this way.

The embarrassing part is that I can critique the emails, point out all the flaws, and tell myself how I should have done it differently (or not at all).

SD,

I don't have to comment on the actual exchange. You well know the good/bad/ugly of it all. Hey, that's a movie, isnt' it?!

However, I DO have to commend you for the parting shot,,,


That says it all, doesn't it?! She can 'fool' herself all she wants to about the kids not understanding. The TRUTH is THEY understand all too well those things that she chooses to try to twist and turn to make it into being 'right'.

Did you read the posts from SB that LG copied to my thread today? Good stuff. Only a wayward who is de-fogging and wanting to make a change would 'get' it, but DA*M it's some GREAT stuff!!!

Sweetie, I am so, so , so sorry for the latest exhange with the demonic SCQ . You are SO above all of her squalor.

Hose yourself off from all the slime and rise to your proper place above it all.

I understand the need to get down in the mud,,,,really I DO, but rise above my friend!

SD,


....well....you could always blame it on whoever made it THAT easy to hit the «SEND» button??!! :RollieEyes:

SD:

She actually didn't seem to be ripping you that bad there.

Your para about the discussion with the children must have made her head smoke.

But she was actually pleasant.

Please note, this is going to end up a pattern. The same back and forth. You want to get your shots in. She wants it to be co-parenting.

She, sorry to say, will win. It's just human nature. Your defenses will continue to deteroriate and no, you won't be sharing hotdogs at the kids soccer games, but you will, overtime, just exchange emails that will be utterly devoid of emotion.

Your final line:


SO MUCH HOPE in that line. But will be construed by the SCQ that YOU have to modify your email tatics cuz she's fine.

Otherwise it was an interesting read. You know where it went off track, and heck, I respect you for not giving her even more static, she deserves it.

Do the best you can. You have been doing well. Someday soon the D will be final. There is a certain "lifting of the weight" at that time. Maybe it will get easier. Maybe like Believer, the A will end two weeks later. And she will come back.

I really do not know what to tell you at that point. Which brings us back to "it doesn't have to be this way"

But it is.

sux.

LG

No, I agree. Her emails were very reasonable and businesslike. My IC actually said that not responding to them makes me look silly, and I can't really disagree. It was when the SCQ told me what I should do that set me off.

She wants me to be the friendly co-parent. She probably self-righteously believes that it is what is best for the children (rather than marital recovery). She is probably extremely frustrated that I won't just get over it.

Yeah, that's what I thought, and it's what I thought was interesting, because she didn't come back at me with both barrels. That's her pattern--her knee-jerk reaction. SDG says or does something the SCQ doesn't like--hurt SDG. Threaten with attorney fees or reduction of his time with the children or (in this case) by revoking her offer of the first day of school. She responded specifically to each of the emails, but the very first thing she did was send the one designed to hurt me.

I almost pointed that out to her--how obvious the behavior is and that there will be more consequences coming down the road for her that aren't my fault, and how I really don't want to be on the receiving end of that, but took that part out.

So. . . she didn't lash out. What's up with that? Schoolbus, you out there? Did she not read it right? Did I not spell it out clearly enough?

That's Done, right? There are plenty in the audience who want me to be there six months ago. You're right. It will come.

I could have said so much more but held back because you can't unsay things. But I have to say that after reading her final email I had a flash feeling of "Wait. . . that's it?" Just a flash.

My IC hit me with this one. The SCQ doesn't see a problem. The kids don't see a problem because they just accept what is put in front of them by their parents. The only one suffering is the one with zero power to change things. So, how long has it been? How long are you going to do this to yourself?

Like you said, not much to tell that I don't already know, but thanks for stopping in anyway. Perspectives always appreciated.

Other thoughts, insights, and opinions welcome. Thanks for the encouragement Bugs and Luna.

Hi SD,


...yeah, I know, and feel like somehow we're NOT normal ...or FEEL that somehow we purposefully WANT to suffer :crosseyedcrazy: what's up with that?

...I think it may take longer 'letting go' or 'moving on' if somehow it's tide in with the FEAR that the HOPE for M recovery will go out the window right along with it

...so, it becomes important for BS to PROTECT LoveB (Plan B) enough to WANT to make the EFFORT to recover M should the opportunity present itself (mind you, it may not :RollieEyes:)...

...and the danger of 'draining' exchanges with a WS is that it can further drain the LoveB (as if it wasn't in the red enough already )

Bottom line, for many here, life is NOT how we had envisioned it... the trick is in learning how NOT to judge it, come to terms with whatever IT IS, and learn to think of it as being DIFFERENT from what we expected it to be...and make the most of it ANYWAY!

... at least it's what Yours Truly is TRYING to do