Our (my FWW and I) experience is quite similar to yours, except that she told me about the A, and she'd actually given up her virginity to OM1 while we were still a couple (but before we were M'd). For over a year after her second, and much worse, A, every day I questioned my decision to stay with her and get M'd, rather than opting out, and sometimes I still think about it from time to time.

In your case, your H is probably quite angry that he did not know that information about you at a time it would have been most relevant. I can however quite understand what is going through your H's mind. Realise that he's not just questioning you, but also his own judgment, and perhaps much more so.

I'm not sure what to suggest at this point, but hopefully the above helps in some way.

Looking4

L4,

Your conscience has probably been in overload mode. I experienced the same when my then-WH decided he may as well come clean about the EA he started 6 years prior, but didn't like the sound of her voice on their first phone call so he never called her back and thought he could hide it from me forever.

I would have never found out. I was sad and glad. Sad that he was able to hide it from me but glad that he told me about it without having to. (Your case is a little different since OM told your H, but it's the same hurt for you and my WH.)

L4, you may not have thought it important back then, but as you now see, it's festered in you all these years and now given your H something to feel even more betrayed about.

This does not change how I feel about you if you are now willing to confess all and come clean.......as long as you are sincere.

This is all a shock to both of your systems, L4 and both of your reactions are typical, so I've heard. Maybe I've heard wrong, but I still think there's hope for you as long as you're both willing to do the work. It will take months and maybe even years to overcome but it is possible.

I think there are some personal questionnaires on this web site regarding your personal history, including sexual encounters. If you fill in the blanks, it will help jog your memory so you can be completely clean with him, even before he asks you if there are any more things you may have forgotten or not thought were important to tell him.

Keep posting, L4 and we'll all help you through this as long as you want to recover your marriage (or personally recover if your H chooses not to try). I pray that he will eventually. Realize that it's normal for him to vacillate from day to day or even moment to moment.

Still praying for you, L4.

Ace

looking4

"I don't know what to do. I've always felt like I'm a good person. But the things he's bringing up now... Heck, even just from my vantage point I'm a cold-hearted, self-centered b**ch. I don't know if I'll be able to recover."

You don't have to label yourself. Good people have made bad decisions. Bad people won't admit that they were wrong.

"As MIM said "Our (my FWW and I) experience is quite similar to yours, except that she told me about the A, and she'd actually given up her virginity to OM1 while we were still a couple (but before we were M'd). For over a year after her second, and much worse, A, every day I questioned my decision to stay with her and get M'd, rather than opting out, and sometimes I still think about it from time to time.

In your case, your H is probably quite angry that he did not know that information about you at a time it would have been most relevant."

This is a point that point I was going to bring up. That a WW must tell her future H before they get married that she had an affair while dating him. For the very reason that if his future W had an affair and that would be a deal breaker and he would not of gotten married. He was kept from the information that and his decision to not marry her.

This only has to make the BH angry. But in all fairness to history no BH can say with one hundred percent certainty what they would of happened back then. What is important was that your silence took away his decision to stay or walk away.



Your actions neutered him. This is why there is a new level of anger. Others have been able to recover from this. Some not. You just have to keep working and let time heal.



Maybe he would of still married you after being told, and he would of never changed. Maybe he would of changed to watch you like a hawk. Realize that you needed and insist you needed to change and have stronger boundaries to prevent future affairs. Maybe you wouldn't of changed.

I have been reading your story for several days and kept getting the feeling that there was a Paul Harvey moment (The Rest of the Story) in here somewhere.

Now that we've seen that moment, it appears that your BH may know you much better than you know yourself (or are willing to admit to yourself).

Looking4,

Are you working with an individual counselor besides with your couples couselor? If not, IMO you should be. You need to find out the reasons you keep straying. The best gift I ever game myself was the gift of therapy. I learned how to dig deep into myself to see my unhealthy patterns and behaviors. Then I learned how to change them.

You also, understandably, sound very down. You may consider talking to your doctor about anti-depressants. If you get depressed things will feel even more magnified than they are.

Your happiness and healing is just as important as your H's. You need to work on yourself along with working on your marriage.

LC

L4,

If you remember nothing else in all of this, remember that ANY lie you tell now will be another nail in the coffin of your marriage.

You simply cannot lie anymore about anything and recover anything that remotely resembles a marriage...

Even volunteering the truth later, even seconds later is like making that first confession all over agin to your husband.
It doesn't reinforce your ability to tell the truth in his eyes but rather reinforces his belief that you are incapabl;e of telling the truth unless cornered.

You just simply can't lie to him if you want to remain married...

Mark

I know, Mark. And I knew that. It's the stupidest, most idiotic thing. This whole time -- this WHOLE time while I've been struggling about confessing the (now clarifying) 2nd A -- I never once thought what I did a few years before we were married was even relevant. I am in individual counseling and have been for 7 months now. I thought I had told the therapist my deepest, darkest, dirtiest secrets and yet I never even told him about that cheating. I sound like I'm playing you, but seriously, I never gave it a second thought until my H brought it up Sunday. How could I have neglected that deceitful act I did, not even mentioning it here to all of you? You who have an understanding for this kind of thing. The fact that he pulled out that suspicion from back then... And why did I instinctively lie about that one, but nothing else? Every question he asked me (and there were ones that I knew were going to kill him), I answered. I answered them truthfully and in as much detail as he said he needed. So WHY did I think I didn't need to confess to that? I mean, really??? Have I learned nothing? Why is it when it comes to work, church, my friends, and family, I cannot and do not lie? How is it I take the daggers and the blame in every other facet of my life and move on? How come with the man I supposedly love more than anyone I can't trust him to handle the truth when it comes to us?

It's been like an epiphany. I am a cheater. I was 16+ years ago and I am now. I didn't think it was possible but I feel ignorant, cold-hearted, and as thoughtless as one can -- characteristics that I thought were foreign to me.

So last night was all over the place. He's sure he's leaving and he feels the last 16+ years (his prime years, he says) have been a complete joke. He says he's done. That he feels duped and that I've never loved him anyway. Then he'll say something like "If we make it through this, I don't want to be with the old L4. But then I don't want a new L4 either." He says mean things like only losers will want to be with me because of my mild deformities. That he's pretty sure he needs to take a paternity test. He'll say that he's jealous of the next man who will get to live with the ethical L4, the one he had to sacrifice his life to mold. Then he'll turn and say he's sorry that I'm hurting too and that we're in this together.

For the first time since Sunday's confession, we slept together last night. We held each other throughout the entire evening. Something we haven't done in... Years and years and years. And then this morning he said he hopes he didn't give me the wrong idea, because the little voice inside his head says he'll never be happy again with me. That I never loved him in the first place. And that he will never trust me with his heart. And therefore he can't stay with me.

So now I'm waiting. Waiting for him to tell me if he wants to leave or try. I'm prepared for the worst. But then again, maybe that's what I want. I know the worst is what I deserve, and I don't think I want that. But maybe through my selfish, uncaring actions... Maybe deep down in my subconsciousness, in my cold heart, it's what I want.

It's one heck of a brutal way to make someone not want me.

L4,

I know his words hurt and I know you believe much of what he says.

Believe what he does next, not what he says...


Let him vent until he is done.


The above applies to finding out your spouse has had an affair as much as it does to the loss of a child. Some who have experienced both have said that the former hurt more than the latter.

He's hovering between steps 1 & 3 right now, passing through step two while going back and forth.

With a little luck and time and with understanding and help from you, he should move forward, though it will take a while.

Keep letting him know you are sorry for what you did, even more so about the lies and that you want to make him number one in your life and that you are fully committed to him for the future.

Don't keep bringing it up, but don't avoid it when he needs to talk about it.

If he shows signs of wanting to recover your marriage, see if he would be willing to read Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley. You might benefit from it as well.

Other books you might want to read are His Needs/Her Needs, Love Busters and/or Fall In Love Stay In Love all by Dr Harley and Torn Asunder by Dave Carder.

It will take serious effort on your part for him to ever trust you again. It will only happen by your being trustworthy in all that you do. Extraordinary precautions must be put into place to protect your own weaknesses and to demonstrate your willingness to make things right going forward. Begin practicing PORH and POJA and have no secret life apart from him.

This is really how a marriage should be not just one broken by infidelity. Unfortunately it often takes an affair by one or the other to see that it should be such.

Your night last night is a good sign, IMO. That is why I say to examine what he does more than what he says. He wants a divorce only if he seeks one actively. Even initial filing does not prove it is what he really wants.

This will take time to repair if it can be done at all. You didn't get to this point overnight and won't get to where you need to be overnight either.

Hang in there, L4. Keep posting and maybe someday he will be ready to come here himself. If he begins to buy into MB concepts, you might be able to really move forward together.

Mark

Your story is a living example of why Harley advocates historical honesty.

Your husband thought he was getting GIRL A when he married you .... but now finds out he actually got GIRL B because you were not historically honest from the beginning.

Your only chance is this: FALL ON YOUR SWORD

Tell H you now realize that he feels he's dealing with a "bait 'n switch" situation.

Tell H that you will never again try to hide the truth from him because you realize you were not trying to protect him. That was a lie you told yourself so you could paint a prettier picture of who you were.

Tell H that you will never lie by omission again. He will get the honest full truth, even if it is painful.

Tell H he has a right to know who his wife really is.

It's your only chance to earn his trust back.
This is not about love, it is all about trust.

Marriage can survive affairs.
A marriage built on dishonesty is NOT a "safe sanctuary" for either spouse.

Most of us want safe a sanctuary.

Offer the paternity test.
Just the fact that you offer will probably help him feel like you're focused on honesty and truth now.

L4, how are you holding up?

Barely holding let alone up, Sh0cked. I lost my job back in July and while I hate being unemployed and it's tough financially for us, it was probably the best thing for me so I could focus on getting my life in order -- and hopfully our marriage.

I'll try to type more tomorrow as these last few days have been so intense and I need to go to bed. Since I confessed I have felt like I'm living an outer body experience (and goodness knows I wish I was), yet simultaneously it's the most real I've felt in so very long. Many horrible and deeply painful things have come of this, and yet also some good things. I'll share more later. I'm still just so tired.

Thanks for asking.

Looking4,

I'm glad to read that amongst all the bad there is some good. How are your kids doing through all of this?

I know it's hard to stand up some days, but you will find the strength. Early on in rebuilding I typed this phrase out and read it over and over to myself "What doesn't kill us makes us stronger". I also believe God gives us what he thinks we can handle, but admit there were many days I was sure He over estimated me. I was wrong I had more strength than I ever knew existed and I suspect you do to.

Keep our chin up.

LC

I do believe that I have been over estimated by God, but you are right about being stronger than you ever knew you were, I guess it comes down to being alone with the children or trying to stay together and being together for the children and some day being there for each other again.

I look forward to your update. You got guts, lady, and I think that in time you will feel good about coming clean. IMHO, this is a chance for you to "start over" and do things right.

I have a busy day but will check-in on your thread when I can.

- Sh0cked

Today is our 14-year wedding anniversary. Needless to say, we are not celebrating.

Last Friday my H asked me to join him back in our bed. Then the morning came and it was back to the anger, the tears, and the questions. I took the kids with me to my parents last weekend and he sent me emails saying he couldn't forgive me, that we were done, and that I needed to move back into the guest room. I got back Sunday night and we talked into the wee hours of morning. We went to sleep in each other's arms, but he left sometime later and went back to the other bed.

He keeps stating that he thinks he could get past the affair of this year because he can see how our marriage was failing anyway, and feels like the OM was a predator who took advantage of my vulnerabilities. (Though he can't believe how stupid I was to have let that happen. And he's not letting me off the hook. As he shouldn't.) But he says he can't get over the one I had two years before we married. He says that one hurts more because he knows he would not have married me if he had known and he wouldn't be here now, wallowing in so much pain and confusion. The pre-marriage one is really really killing him. He wants answers about it and I'm trying very hard to remember, but it was so long ago, I was depressed, I didn't care about that OM, and it's been very hard providing him the concrete answers he needs. That of course isn't helping. But as I keep telling him and telling myself, I have nothing more I could possibly lose, so I have no reason to hide anything. I've been the most open I've ever been to anyone. I've offered to get the paternity test, get him addresses and phone numbers, tell him all the details or nothing... Whatever he wants. But that one consumes him.

It's so emotional because in bringing up these things from 16+ years ago and coupling them with what I did this year... How could I be this person? The one from long ago was a straight up fling where I didn't care about the OM, anyone else, nor even myself. I was on a self-destructive path. The one this year was because I did want to be loved and I thought the OM and I deeply cared for each other. How can I be this person who has so little respect for my husband? How can I be so selfish? I'm the person who stops and takes care of complete strangers, yet I'm capable of doing hurtful things to the man I love. Not once... But twice. I soooo don't want to be this person. And unfortunately it's too late to not be this person with my H. The damage, he tells me, is done.

But then there was yesterday... We had it out. He said all the mean things again. (He works from home so we can talk anytime.) Then he shared with me deep feelings and things I didn't know. He has immense pain. Yet he is still attracted to me. But he can't get over what I've done. He wishes he never married me. But he's also proud of my accomplishments with my career and our children. He's all over the map. I ended up in the guest bed curled up like a baby for hours. I finally couldn't hold it together for him any more. He crawled into the bed with me and held me, missing conference calls and getting behind on his work. He said he'll be strong for both of us. He said I can't get my hopes up by his actions reaching out for me, that he still feels he can't stay with me. But that he can't stand to see me hurting as I am. I don't deserve his sympathy. But I haven't felt that close to him since our son was born over 7 years ago.

He asked me why I haven't asked for his forgiveness. I said because I don't deserve it. I'd rather he offer it if he so chooses. He said he knows God has forgiven me, my family and even his mother have forgiven me, but yes, he doesn't know if he'll be able to.

The last 10 days I've watched deep pain and I have felt unbelievable shame. And yet I haven't felt closer to my husband in years. Among all the injury we've uncovered, he is showing genuine kindness, dignity, and concern for me -- unlike I've ever seen from him for this duration. It's perverse because I fell for the OM thinking I was leaving my H, and now I want to have and keep my H as my husband so badly.

Question for BSs: My H is encouraging me to send a letter to the OM's BW to reassure her that I will not be coming after her husband regardless of what happens to our marriage. I'm sure old doubts about my intensions have been resurrected since my H contacted her about knowing about the A. (The OM and his BW had their D-Day 4 months ago when she discovered an email from me.) My H feels I owe it to the BW -- to tell her that I'll remain out of their lives forever no matter what. I have written the letter and my H has read it. He says he'll email it to her for me. I think that if it gets sent at all, I should postal mail it to her. Then she can choose to return it to me unopened, or burn it, or read it over and over.

Those who have lived this... What do you think? ?

The kids are doing surprisingly well. We haven't said anything to them and we have kept up appearances. We all eat dinner together, do piano lessons, go to grandparents', did trick-or-treating... I'm crying a lot and try to keep that away from them, but when they catch me, I explain I'm sad about something or just tired and not to worry. I know kids are very intuitive, but they seem to be rolling along okay right now.

That's one thing... My H says as much as he wishes he had known about my pre-marital A so he would not have married me, he says he can't imagine not having our two kids. They bring us both so much joy.

L4,

I get the impression that your H considers you to be better looking than he is. I wonder if he always felt a degree of inferiority to you and this just pushes it over the edge.

God Bless
NJ

Interesting angle, newjersey... I am attractive I guess, but not gorgeous nor anything exceptional. Maybe that is affecting this. But he is good looking. He is a target of women and (to his chagrin) men when we're out. We have been told we're a good-looking couple. While I may be pleasant in the face, I'm not his ultimate because H has suggested to me on more than a few occasions that I should consider having my breasts enlarged -- having said this again just yesterday. He stated that he's been loving how I've been looking since I lost a bunch a weight last spring so maybe I should get my breasts fixed to go with the rest of my new "hot" body. I asked, "Why should I if you already think I'm hot?" He said because he thinks it'll help me with my self-esteem issues -- that I should do it for me. I've been small-chested all my life. I don't think having a bigger chest will solve my self-esteem problems.