L4,

Regardless of the eventual outcome, you have taken back your integrity.

Your story exemplifies exactly why honesty is so critical to a good marriage. Your husband feels like his entire life for the last 16 years has been a lie. While it is clear that he still wants you, he also clearly doen't know if he can get past this.

Is there any chance that he might be willing to come here and post on his own thread. I know that can be tricky because of the temptation to hash things out on the forums or to argue about things each other said on the forums, but I also know that he might benefit from discovering that other men have been through similar situations and have recovered.

Optionally, I offer him the opportunity to email me. I'm willing to be his sounding board or simply hear him vent. I don't check the email in my sig-line every day, but the offer is there if he wants to do it.

You are really going to need help in order to get through this and come out the other side happily married. A local MC might be an option if you can find one that either follows Dr Harley's methods or at least is pro-marriage. A pastor or other clergy that might have experince in this area might help as well.

The best investment you two could make might be a few phone sessions with Steve or Jennifer.

Based on some of what you say he has done in the past few days, it is obvious that he cares deeply for you. The fact that he sets aside his own pain to comfort you speaks volumes about what he values most. But if you can muster the strength to try to do the same for him it might help him as well.

It would be nice to have a time machine and to be able to go back and prevent what happened, but alas, that can't happen and the damage has been done.

I'm praying for you both.

Mark

L4,

Guess I was off the mark on that one, although I will say that people often have self perceptions very much at odds with how other people see them. Its often very surprising.

If he is considered good looking he might also be feeling a great deal of regret about all the times he turned women down to remain loyal. He may be feeling that his fidelity was a wasted effort.

God Bless
NJ

Not sure how I've done that. I believe I lost it a long time ago.

No. I've bought HNHN and LB and have other books. I've told him about MB, the forums, and suggested he try any discussion board he may be comfortable with. He says the problems are ours and ours alone. He doesn't need anyone else to tell him what to do.

Thank you, Mark1952.

We had been seeing a MC that we both really liked and who was about trying hard to stay together. But H said he won't go back any more -- at least not for quite a while, if ever. Our pastor knows everything and he recommends we see a MC too. But H says no. H says only he and I can figure out what's best for us, and only he can figure out what's best for him.

When he's held me through this, it's the safest I've felt in a very long time. I have been holding him too. Wiping his tears. Letting him vent. Encouraging him talk with whomever he wants to tell. Doing everything I can think of to comfort him. I want to be strong for him. Be completely there for him however I can. Or not at all if that's what he wants. There are times like today, however, where nothing is helping him.

Amen.

Thank you so much.

He has mentioned that several times... That he has had so many opportunities to be with many other women and he's never done that because of his promise to me. He says now that if he had known what I was capable of and that fidelity meant nothing to me, he would have. But that's not who he is. My husband can be really mean, but he would never do that to us. He would divorce me before he broke that vow. (Of course I used to think the same of myself before too.)

L4,

I think the fact that other people knew before he did is also a problem, OM1 and OM2 knew and I think you said you told others. Did he know OM1 from way back and did he have any interaction in the subsequent years with him?

Oddly too your H does not sound in the least bit vengeful towards OM's.

God Bless
NJ

He met OM1 one time before the PA, but never saw him after. Our paths have no reason to ever cross. No one knew about OM1 until I told OM2 about it -- when OM2 first approached me about his attraction to me and I denied him, stating that I had a fling many years ago, before I was married and couldn't do that again. (Was I even listening to myself?!) I didn't share any details with OM2. I then told my sister of OM1 a few months later, wondering if I should reveal it all these years later. They were the only two I ever told about OM1. My IC learned of OM2 after we went NC, and our MC learned of OM2 one week before I confessed. No other friends, family, co-workers... No one else knew of OM2 other than OM2 and his BW.

As for vengence, I know H thinks OM2 is a "scum-sucking predator" who "took advantage" of his vulnerable wife during a very low time in our relationship. He has zero regard for him. My H hates the OMs, but he rightfully does not hold them responsible. That's on me.

Hi L4,

Glad you've been interacting with your BH on this huge rollercoaster ride.

Regarding the OP, I am striving to have zero regards for OW, but have not arrived there yet....and it's been nearly 2 years since D-Day 4 and almost 27 months since verfiable NC for secret email contact.

Remember the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. It will take your BH a little while ~ or a long time ~ to get there.

For us, the more we rebuild trust and keep each other's love banks full, the closer to indifference I get regarding OW. (FWH claims that the only time he thinks of her is when I mention the A/OW/triggers.)

I can't wait until the day I get there, but in the meantime, I am focusing on my FHW and our recovery.

Keep posting, L4....you're getting great advice, which will cushion the dips on this rollercoaster ride.

Ace

L4, hang in there. You are doing so well. I know I wish my DH had been so self-aware after our D-day. He's doing great now, but it's taking some time to learn the language of emotional intelligence.

And, about language, I just wanted to say again that your BH is saying all the things I was saying after D-day, almost word-for-word. I would call him and say I hated him and that I was ashamed that I even KNEW him, let alone produced children with him, that he had no soul. And then I would say that I hurt more than I ever had in my life and that I loved him. Some nights I would desperately need him to hold me.....I was wierdly attracted to him physically for a few months. The next day I would react like he'd burned me if he accidentally touched me in passing.

All of this is not to highlight that I'm nuts, but to highlight that I too had language troubles that I'm overcoming as we go along. It's incredibly dificult to say exactly just what it is that is racing through your mind at first. The highs are, in my opinion, kinda other-worldly and it's hard to trust that they are real. The lows are beyond anything that life might have prepared you for. What I was really meaning, I now see, was that I loved this man, I loved the family that we'd built and I was shaken to my core to see that I had become disposable to him.

I'm so sorry that the two of you are going through this. I'm very sorry to hear that he's not ready to reach outside for help yet, but keep offering, keep showing him the direction to go in. Absolutely keep going to counselling yourself.

I understand how hard this might be. I know that I wanted to go to MC with DH, but I only went once and then went through a long phase of feeling like I couldn't trust anyone, even a therapist, with what I was going through. Now I'm ready to go again, ready to begin trusting, but I absolutely cannot go with the therapist he was seeing before.....she knew about the EA (he didn't tell her that it had become a PA), and while I know that she had a professional obligation to keep that confidence, a little part of me will always blame her some, and certainly she is a trigger for me. We're looking for a new MC. Maybe in time this might be what your BH might need too. The place where you met before D-day to discuss your M and the person who knew before he did are powerful triggers.

Another thing; I now know that I ought to have continued therapy, and might have avoided emotional trauma if I had, but at the time, I was doing what made sense to me. The LAST person I wanted telling me "You should see a therapist" was my FWH. I don't have any answers for that. You are walking a tightrope, L4, and it's going to be that way for a while. Only after seeing my DH so worried about me as I lost our pregnancy could I FINALLY see that he cares for me. Six months after D-day, I finally believe that he wants, really wants me, marriage with me, more children with me, a life with me. You just have to be steady as a rock and stay constant.

I think about you a lot. Hope you pull through this, hope he sees the value of the soul-searching you have been doing. But it will be a while before he can hear your remorse the way we can....

Hope this helps.

Absolutely let your husband do with it as he sees fit. You have written it - offer to amend it so that he is completely happy with it, and then let HIM communicate it to OM's W if he thinks that is the prudent thing to do. He will feel safe with his own correspondence with them. I can't speak for your BH, of course, but from my own experiences and from everything I've read, he will feel VERY anxious about any correspondence you might have with them.

Because you are no longer living a lie. You have chosen the road of truth and honesty. The fact that it is such a painful road makes your reclamation of integrity even more worthy of recognition.

L4,

He met OM1 one time before the PA, but never saw him after. Our paths have no reason to ever cross. etc

Well that's good, at least he wasn't playing golf with him for the last 10 years. I have a Brother in law, who tried some funny business some time ago, with my then girl friend now wife and it is still hateful to look at him.

Does he regret that it would take some effort to beat him up since he is so far away now?

God Bless
NJ

Bingo!

L4, I have not commented lately because there are others here that are far more seasoned than I. From where I sit, however, Mark is right - Your H does show that he genuinely cares for you. The $25,000 question is if he can eventually get past the infidelity. I still firmly believe that the potential is there for you two to have a wonderful M.

I do think MC is necessary, however. It is not the counselor's job to tell him what to do; it is a "safe" place to discuss feelings and emotions. It will do him some good to use that forum as an outlet for his pain.

One other note, there is no quick fix. Everything is still fresh and it will take months before he starts to feel normal again. Unfortunately, he will continue to vacillate. I was completely worthless for 3 weeks and it took almost 6 months for me to get a grip on reality.

Are you able to spend any quality time together? It would be nice if you could go out, just the two of you, and find an activity you both like. My W and I did Racquetball; the exercise and healthy competition were helpful. Promise each other no A or R talks during that time.

Keep posting, L4, and keep doing what you are doing. It isn't easy but it is worth fighting for.

- Sh0cked

You actually made me smile with this, newjersey. Thanks. I have no idea where OM1 is now. I do believe If OM2 were within striking distance and not 2000 miles away that my H would want to find him and beat him up. OM2 is bigger so I don't know if H would actually go through with it, but I know my H would definitely want to.

Just re-reading my journey these last 11 days. Thank you _Ace_, Lifechoice, Mark1952, Turtlehead, mama2boys, newjersey, Sh0cked, Pepperband, ManInMotion, bigkahuna, TheRoad, ForeverHers, RookKev, star*fish, Enlightened_Ex, iam, Chrysalis, andrew3, MyRevelation, and Crushedat40. Y'all have been my lifeline.

Thank you.

L4, thank you! You are doing things that many betrayed desperately wish from their waywards. You offer hope to those that are suffering.

I do not know how this story will end but I can say that you are taking the high road. Take pride in your path. We are here for you.

- Sh0cked

L4,

OM2 is bigger so I don't know if H would actually go through with it, but I know my H would definitely want to.

Hopefully not bigger everywhere, as my Phillipono friend says women are looking for 666, 6 figure income, 6 inches and 6 foot. Not sure if that was originally a Tagalog saying or not.

God Bless
NJ

So, L4, what are you doing for fun? Are you able to find a diversion away from all the stress?

My H emailed my apology letter to the OM's W this morning. In it I spelled out what I was sorry for and why. I also reassured her that I do not want to correspond with her H and will not be contacting him or them again whatsoever.

My H did add commentary to the email that is bothering me. I had shared with H that I'm still very angry with the OM. The OM has apologized to his W and recently to my BH by email. But other than sending me a text about not loving me and wanting me to stay away from him (the NC message back in June), I've seen no remorse from him for crossing the line and taking me on this life-ruining journey. Yes, I'm a big girl and I take FULL responsibility for having the affair. And I don't know that I deserve an apology from the OM nor what it would even look like. So why am I still so mad at OM? I was spewing to my H about it two days ago. I feel that the OM exploited my vulnerabilities and broken marriage to get in my pants then kicked me to the curb like garbage once his W found out, even though the OM and I had ended it ourselves before. I know, I know, I know... I deserve no sympathy. And doing NC quick and abrupt was needed for all of us. I know all of this in my head. But it doesn't make it feel any better, knowing how completely used I was for the OM's thrills. I thought I was in love with this man and that I was smarter than that. And I feel like he's laughing at me about it. He and his wife are moving on and I really do want that if that's what she wants. (Dang, she has no idea the things he told me. She would so be out the door if she knew, even if they were just lies.) But there's the little piece of me that is still so angry about how he used me, lied to me, then left me in a heap on the side. Again, I know that's how it has to be and that affairs don't have happy endings. But I'm angry that I'm left standing here known as the home-wrecking wh**e and he's merrily going along like all's well that ends well. Obviously, I'm still grappling with this. Sorry 'bout that little rant.

Anyway...

My H added an introduction to my apology letter and took it upon himself to add the following:

"...I received an apology from OM (even though I didn't request it). L4 claims she never got an apology directly from OM. I know...this is getting into a sensitive area where I don't belong, but I thought I would mention this fact to you..."

I wish he would have let my apology stand on its own. I'm concerned now that she's going to read it from a defensive point of view, like "Why the h*ll would my H need to apologize to her?" I told my H I wish he wouldn't have added the comment about me not getting an apology from OM. And that quiet frankly now I do not want one. We can't have contact and it would be so contrived anyway. My H sees my point and is sorry that he added it. But we have to let it all go now, right? It's done. And over. I need to be through with the other couple. They can get on however they want to. And my H and I have to restore only ourselves.

Just wanted to share since I had asked about the letter here a few times.

Is eating a quart of Haagan-Daas coffee ice cream while watching reruns of Law & Order considered a distraction?

It's hard because I have no job and all of my friends work. My sister is unemployed and we talk every day, but my primary distraction is MBs and looking for the occasional job. I want to make sure I'm available if my H wants to talk or be with me.

I am going to a play tonight with family. Tomorrow H is going to a game with his friend who knows everything so that should be good for him. Then there is church Sunday and a committee meeting I have. Unfortunately, my H has said he is going to stay away from church for a while which I believe is a big mistake. He thinks I'm a hypocrite, going to church trying to be all good and stuff when I'm acutally just a cheater. He says he can't be a part of that, going to a place where people act all saintly when really they may be liars underneath. He knows "we're all sinners", but he feels some sins are greater than others (i.e. mine) and wants no part of that now. So the kids and I will go. Our pastor called us last night to check in and that was nice.