Good grief...there is still contact? :RollieEyes: No point in having you parents and WW try to reconcile and she's still in contact with OM. Be prepared to laydown the law with plan B if your WW doesn't end contact.


If OM's wife wants to stick her fingers in her ears don't blow your source of info because she will blab.

Not enough.

Is he physically afraid of you?


Well.....very difficult news to sit on for a spouse. I lasted about 8 minutes, even with K and JL counseling patience....

To me, the snooping is just a knife in the gut until you get a commitment of no contact and an open life. My W gave me her passwords, and wrote a NC letter. And she STILL called the guy in the few weeks after (to see if he was "ok")

If you haven't you have a golden opportunity to get some counsel with the Harley's BEFORE you do broad exposure, and they'll tell you how to expose, etc.

Every email between them sets the affair feelings back to square one.

Plus, didn't I see that they work together? My W quit her job D-day plus one, or I was going to the boss. That was effective.

Maybe it's just me but I have to ask. Why does your wife still have an e-mail account?

In my sitch the cell phone was destroyed and e-mail cancelled on D-Day. She also got the GPS stapled to her forehead.

Please tell me she no longer has a cell phone?

she uses her work email.


She still has her cell phone, but I check the number she talks to every day. She hasn't used it to call him since D-day.

Yes, these are what an alcoholic would call "business drinks." They have the exact same effect. Your wife is still engaged in an AFFAIR and is getting her needs met by the OM.



Was the point of spying just to SPY then? Sort of like voyuerism? What WAS the point if not to use the intel to bust up the affair?

Refresh my memory, please. Is this a workplace affair? is the OM married? And has the affair been exposed to the OMW and to the workplace?

Then you need to EXPOSE AGAIN and let her know the affair is STILL GOING.



OM are usually pansies, I would plan to visit him tomorrow AFTER you expose to his wife again and have a come to Jesus with him. Please leave your pistol in the car.


It doesn't matter if she knows you have access to their emails. You can tell her how to install a keylogger on his computer. I doubt she would tell him that. But asking her to not say anything until you came around with more details was unrealistic.

You need to change the title of this thread to "How do I kill my WW's A". Until that happens why should you be trying to reconcile her behaviour with you parents??????

I was just thinking that earlier today, but how do i change the name of the thread? Is that something a mod has to do?


Before thanksgiving, I mistakenly thought we were in recovery, hence the title.


To refresh everyone memory, this is a workplace affair, but the OM has relocated to a different department that has no contact with my Wife's department. The OM is married and has 2 young children.

Go to your first post and edit the title there. There is a time limit on it so if there's no edit option then you will need to contact a mod.

All the best

I gotcha! So now she will be triggered every day when she goes to work. And so will you. She will stay in a perpetual state of withdrawal.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

more.....

No contact, lifechoice http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1659249&fpart=3

Every time I read where a WS is still working with the AP I cringe because I know exactly where things are headed. I know I said this before, but I only worked 6 days a month and after I ended the A, of the 6, we maybe worked together 1 or 2. When I ended the A it brought relief and neither FOM nor I wanted the A any longer, but regardless I was hooked. Just seeing his car in the parking lot, his name on an work email, or anything related to him kept me hooked.

I never knew ahead of time if I was going to be working with him. If I pulled into the parking lot and saw his car I would feel happy and sad at the same time and if his car was not there I would feel relief and sad at the same time.

My therapist told me to journal and after I confessed the stuff in there just makes me shake my head. Now when I read the stuff I did, said, etc it makes me sick to my stomach. I honestly believed I was on my best behavior because we were not crossing any inappropriate lines or so we thought. Now I can "see" exactly what happened and how it fed my addiction to the A. All those "professional" conversations that had bits and pieces of non-professional idle chit chat, facial expressions, body language, the unnecessary walk-by's, the acknowleging everyone but him days, etc where so harmful. And then my poor H would get to hear all about it because I was being open and honest. I have no idea why he didn't leave me because of what I put him through.

In a sec I will add a snippet from my journal and a prime example of why FAP's cannot stay working together. I hadn't seen my FOM in who knows how long. Docp had recently asked for all the details of the A and I was a complete nervous wreck. When I got to work, FOM was there, I was having a really bad day and to top it off was exposed to TB by a patient. The TB deal was the straw that broke the camels back. I had a meltdown in my FOM's office and almost passed out. I asked him if I could sit for a second and that second of sitting lead to a conversation we never should have had.

We talked about Docp's and his W's reaction, how we all were coping, how stupid and weak we were etc, etc. Even sitting here now I remember the feeling I had and KNEW we should not have been having that conversation, but it was making me feel better when I felt like crap. What I didn't realize was I had just had a big dose fed to my addiction and the whole cycle started again.

Here is the snippet from my journal: (I changed names of course)

"It felt good to talk to him and clear a lot of this up. He even mentioned it was nice that we were able to talk and I feel like he meant it, not in an appropriate way, just a friendly way. (Ah, this from the person who has been avoiding talking to me forever) I felt like I was talking to my 'old friend" the way it was for years before we messed everything up. I told Docp about the whole conversation. He was ok with this conversation, but said he wouldn't be really happy if we started talking all the time. duh!!!!!! I just said I understand and didn't plan on talking to him about anything that wasn't work related."

OK, in all reality Docp was NOT OK with the conversation and told me he didn't care if I was going to faint or not I needed to crawl out of his office, not sit and chat with him. But in my happy place I honestly believed because I told Docp about the conversation it really was OK. I was completely delusional and thought because it made me feel so good, it HAD to be OK.

I had all this going on and I rarely saw my FOM, can you just imagine what is going on when people are seeing each other every day?

Anyway back to NC, I'm not sure if I simply missed it before, but it seems lately we have more who are willing to allow the WS to continue working with the AP and have a zillion and one excuses on why it's OK. I'm never surprised when they find out the A is still ongoing though because I could tell them the details of what is going on during the work day when the WS honestly feels they are on their best behavior.

Mods, thanks for the name change.

This thread used to be called "How to get WW and parents to reconcile?"

Since contact has resumed, and thus the A is not over, the old name no longer applies and I am back to square one.

Thanks for everyone's help and support.

""""OK, in all reality Docp was NOT OK with the conversation and told me he didn't care if I was going to faint or not I needed to crawl out of his office, not sit and chat with him. But in my happy place I honestly believed because I told Docp about the conversation it really was OK. I was completely delusional and thought because it made me feel so good, it HAD to be OK. """"


Lol....that is EXACTLY what my WW did....came skipping in the house one day saying she had run into OM at the store and they had a perfectly casual conversation and she had "closure". Somehow this was supposed to make me happy, even though we had alreayd been counseling with J Harley and the no contact reasoning was crystal clear.

Then I investigated amnd found they had talked by phone a few times as well. That was an interesting day.

I think the reality is, they kept pinging each other to find out if either were heading for divorce court and they could get back to fantasyland.

Mike, her post epitomizes exactly what Dr Harley says about being in a state of "perpetual withdrawal." Every time she withdrew a little she ran into him again and her feelings returned. Even when she didn't see him for awhile, she THOUGHT about the next time she would see him. Talk about going in the bar every day and staring at the beer!

So far I have told my parents, my WW's mother and sisters, and the OM's W about the affair. This was all 3-4 weeks ago. Beyond that I don't know what else to do. The OM has moved to a new department that is in a different building, so their jobs do not require them to have contact, and since the exposure, my WW has been deleting all of her emails (she uses her work account) and I am assuming he is doing the same. So, if I exposed at work, there is no evidence that they are having an affair.

How many sessions do you think I would need with the Harley's to figure out what to do next?

Have you gone to them for counseling with your situation?

TC, you do have evidence of an affair and that is what is necessary for exposure. Even so, they are still in contact. The affair is still on and you know this. You reported recent contact.

As long as they work together, which they do, she will remain in a state of perpetual withdrawal and you are looking at years more of this until contact is ended. I know it seems tempting to take the easier, softer way out, but just talk to others around here who suffered years of an on-again, off again affair. That is what you are facing by going along with her working with him.

my evidence was illegally obtained by logging into her work email account. So, I don't think I can even use that if I expose at work.

Sure you can. You also have the affairees admissions and the OMW as a witness.

From everyone's responses, it looks like I have 2 options.

1. expose the A even further.

2. go to plan B



What does everyone think? 1, 2, both?

Right now I am leaning toward plan B because I would rather my WW leave her job on her own and me force it on her. It would show me that she is truly committed to our marriage.

TC, you cannot force your wife to leave her job, but you can - and should - help things along by exposing it there. Her workplace may choose to force one of them out and that is their prerogative since they are the ones who are legally liable.

I wouldn't go into Plan B without trying that first, because that might be the very thing that kills the affair and motivates one of them to leave.

However, it is up to you to protect your boundaries, not her. It is up to you to explain to her that you are willing to stay and work on your marriage if she ends all contact with the OM. It won't work any other way. If she won't leave her job to recover your marriage, then you will know she is not committed to the recovery of your marriage. But I would leave no stone unturned before you go to Plan B. Workplace exposure is too potent of a tool to overlook.