Shop around for the polygraph. That price sounds high and it also has bells and whistles you don't need.

Does he have a simple polygraph exam without the pre post video?

Is the PI getting a kickback? I know you can't ask, but it sounds like it. I remember 400 dollars mentioned on this forum i think.

Vittoria,
So you think he sent the NC letter asking her to return his stuff (because he was backed into a corner by you calling his bluff), and then followed up with a private letter saying NOT to send it? If so, that's indicative that he's still in a VERY wayward mindset, and you're right to be concerned about ongoing contact. It sounds like he may be doing just enough to appease you, with no intentions of ending the A.

This might help you find a polygraph examiner, I don't know how good it is but it's a start:
http://www.polygraphplace.com/docs/listcountries.php

I will also focus on my progress, not his, that one will be hard, just being honest.
I hear you. The natural tendency is for the BS to become obsessed with the WS. It's a hard tendency to fight but truly you have to focus on yourself and attracting him back to the M. You can't focus on his progress or what he's doing. He's the lost soul and to base your actions on his cloudy judgment would be... well, less than optimal Besides, you already know you can't trust what he says or does right now. Lots of it is lies, coverup, and appeasement. It's probably quite changeable, too. So just hunker down and set your sights on your own goals.

Some wise person here on MB made the analogy years ago of the BS being the lighthouse. There was a post that got quoted often and referred to, but I haven't seen it recently. The gist of it was this: You, the BS, have to be the light house. You shine a beacon guiding the WS back to the marriage. The WS is out at sea, floundering, but you cannot allow his floundering to make you waver. You have to be rock solid, and steady. If you try to go out into the stormy sea to rescue the WS, or teach him how he should be navigating, you may both end up drowned. So you stay the course, unaffected by his floundering. The WS will come closer at times, and drift farther away at times. You are unaffected by this, because you are rock steady, shining your light.

It was beautifully written. I hope you get the idea.

thanks laker53 and turtlehead, you guys are really helpful, I can usually troubleshoot not too bad but my brain doesn't seem to like this problem and gets stuck in 'idle'

I went to the website you posted and it was great, I found a place mentioned not too far from where we live, I will email them when I am done on here. Thanks for mentioning a price, that will be helpful.

I remember reading something about a lighthouse, but scimmed over it not really understanding it, I do now, thanks for clarifying the message within.

I posed this ? before but it got missed.
Is it possible to miss WD in the WS or is it so obvious, it can't be ?
What would some specific behaviours be ?

Past 2 days have been good, no LBing exchanges, no talk of anything I'm not supposed to talk about. In my head is a different story, I feel like a hypocrit...think one thing and doing another.

One thing I absolutely despise is 'two-faced' people, and that is what I am right now. If my WH ever calls me on this in the future, I know I will not be able to justify some of my actions.

Anyway again, thank you so much for keeping in touch.

To answer your question,
My FWH had no withdrawal symptoms afer he wrote the NC letter. But he had only spent four weeks involved in the EA. So your H was either not really invested in the relationship and was willing to go NC, or he is not in NC. I suppose it is possible that he is hiding or burying his withdrawal symptoms, but it is doubtful.

That is why I think you need the polygraph. I don't think you have the whole truth. Maybe he spent several years in an EA with her and easily stopped it. But it is not probable. I am just going by what I have read on this board and probability from an intuitive perspective.

hi laker53

I hear exactly what you are saying and believe me I have my doubts too.
Your suggestion of the poly was great, I am going to do it.

As soon as I logged in tonight there was a thread on polygraphs, how crazy is that!
I will follow that one to learn as much as possible.

I doubt WH could hide WD, he has known this person too long...30yrs and then reunited 6 yrs. ago, slim chance. I feel like I am coming out of my own fog sometimes and it bites.

Do you think that your H is in contact with the other woman? Is he telling you that he has no contact with her? Has he answered all your questions about his relationship with her?

Yes, I think he has had contact since the day he was busted and for sure since the day the NC letter was sent which was about 10 weeks after D-Day.
WH says NC since shortly after D-Day but I do not believe him, certain things don't make sense. It's detailed and long to explain and I really don't want to be a long winded poster.

The contact that I am talking about is phone/letters, I know there has been no physical contact since D-Day.

WH will answer any question I ask him but I don't believe his answers. There are too many suspicious details and his answers are bizarre. I wouldn't describe him as a bizarre sort of person, he is a regular kind of guy. I have no proof of a PA but there are enough inuendos (?sp) to say otherwise.

So that is why I want the polygraph, to put an end to this game I feel like I'm in. I so do not want to find out more info 6mos or a year down the road. I want it figured out now.
Thus the name of my thread...Plan B or you guys...I didn't know what to do, and could feel myself losing control, but the advice I have gotten here has helped a great deal.

Things are easier to do when you have a plan and support.
I have some very good and longtime friends but they do not seem to appreciate the enormous affect this has, but I'm pretty sure none of them has been in this spot.

See, I still have a lenthgy post and I even didn't describe any details !
Thanks for looking back in on me.

Thanks for the clarification. Did you mean to say that you know that there has been no physical contact since D Day?

I hope you have success in finding a person to implement the polygraph exam. I would find your situation very difficult. It is too bad that your friends don't understand. I have to say that I more fully understand the pain that people go through re affairs now that I have had a small taste of it.

I know a guy who is going through it now--I just heard about it, but it all started in June. Fortunately, he seems to be getting some good support from some friends.

From Turtlehead....thanks
In summary, I think you're down to:
1 - find out if the A is ongoing and if so EXPOSE
2 - meet his ENs (do you know what they are?)
3 - eliminate LBs
4 - focus on changing yourself, not on his changes

When you know a little better what is really going on, then you can set boundaries, expose, Plan B, or whatever - but for now you need to hunker down with the list above and find out what's going on with your H and OW, if anything.


[/quote]


OK, this is where I am at.

A polygraph is booked for Jan.31 @ 1pm (after much shopping around found one for half the price of my original quote )

At present there is a letter in the postal system addressed to the questionable postal box I believe he has, it has a return receipt on it so I will know if it gets delivered.....thank you Jim Flint ! who knows, the # that I found could have been a part for a piece of machinery, time will tell

Have been meeting EN's but still feeling like I am a '2 faced person'

Pretty good at knocking out the LB's....did have 1, only 1 last week when I asked for a boundary to be in place and that was met with resistance from WH

Have truly focused on my own progress not his



Now, I did not want to tell my H today about the poly, but will have to tell him tomorrow. It is on Wednesday.
I need suggestions as to how to approach this in the most non love busting way, although I know it will seem to him like a huge LB

Help me out please

It is now today..... can anyone give me some ways to approach this polygraph in a non love busting way ??????

I'm really stuck

Thanks

Just tell him that you don't feel assured by the story he has told you and tell him that him passing a polygraph would reassure you. This would be in his interest too, because you know he wants to regain your trust. This way he could PROVE to you he is being truthful.

WS: YOU MEAN YOU DON'T TRUST ME??? :MrEEk:

Vittoria: No

WS: I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DON'T TRUST ME!!

BS: It is true, I don't trust you, but I WANT TO. That is why I am giving you this opportunity. I want to trust you and I know you want to EARN my trust. This is why I would like you to take the polygraph. Passing it would help you regain my trust and you do want me to trust you, don't you?

Oh that sounds really gooooood !

Thank you

I hope this does not become an issue between now and Wednesday and I hope he follows through with it.

I am so scared that he will fail this test.
It seems our relationship is so superficial right now, not sure if it is on his part b/c he is cake eating or on my part b/c I don't trust him or I just don't know enough about his A.

Anyway.....thank you so much for your reply Melody !

You can add to your statement:
I feel like our relationship is very superficial right now. I feel like I have lost my footing, I don't know if it is because you are still contacting OW, or if it is because I just don't trust you, or if it is because I just don't know enough about your relationship with OW over these past years.

But I don't want a superficial relationship. I want a special and intimate relationship. I want the best relatinship that a man and a woman can have. I believe we can achieve that relationship. I just need this help from you as a start--the polygraph.

laker
You just put my thoughts into a wonderful non love busting statement....thank you

Could you come over here and tell H about the poly.....????? lol


Will let you know how it turns out

I spoke to H, explained it in a non-accusing manner just like what was suggested, I really did do a great job of it. He agreed with everything I said about gaining trust back, wanting more than a superficial relationship, all the stuff right up to the point where I mentioned the 'P' word

His replies were

1) silence with a sober somewhat smug look

2) " this is really uncomfortable for me "

3) " they are not 100% accurate you know "

4) " I am not doing a polygraph "

5) " I told you there was no sex "

6) " what if a person was thinking about doing something but didn't do it, that would come out as if they really did do it"

7) " never did I think that talking to someone on the phone would ever lead to this"

8) " this is ridiculous"

9 " would you take one " to which I replied ABSOLUTELY, I have nothing to hide

After a bit more convo about repairing marriage and his committment to this, he said he had the afternoon to reconsider the test.....he left to go do some work

I was somewhat prepared for this answer but it still hit me like a ton of bricks, I feel like I am back about 50 steps and I just don't want to go there.

My questions now are

Do I wait until tonight to react to his refusing the test in hope he will decide to do it, or do I react this afternoon

Is this where I have no alternative but to go to plan B

I can go to a friends place and stay, have already discussed this with her, but I really don't want to leave my home.....

This next option is the one I am leaning to...
My in-laws live a few miles away, I am willing to go over there with all of his stuff and expose to them the affair and present situation, ask them to help me save our marriage and allow my H to stay with them until he decides to start taking responsibility and finally end contact with OW. ( I have no proof of contact but a deep rooted gut feeling from certain things that don't make sense )

I have a bunch of stuff in my head to say to them but I can't write it all down, I'm a slow typer.....but it all sounds good, trust me

I was slow to react the first time, I don't want to make the same mistake again

I've not mentioned this before, but the text message that I originally found 4mos ago read "Miss you baby xoxo WH" man I can still see it plain as the light of day
This is what has led me to believe the EA has gone PA

I am beside myself right now, can someone give my some guidance please!!!!

he's not being honest - the requirement for a polygraph just became more important

This is a classic letter ... applicable when your adulterous spouse is not willing to disclose the details of the affair ... but wants to recover the marriage ...

Here ya go! Make a copy of the letter and hand it to your husband -

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

Has he told you that he has gone no contact with her? Has he told you everything about the relationship--has he answered all your questions?

I think that you need to let him know that you need to know the truth, no matter what the truth is. It is radical honesty that you need in order to begin to create the intimacy in the relationship that you crave. You can remind him that there cannot be three people in your marriage and as long as he keeps secrets with OW, even if they are only past events, that creates three people in your marriage.

I suggest that you prepare some statements to him like that stated above, and let him know that you need the polygraph. I would suggest that you keep your statements somewhat succinct and that you not get into a debate with him. Getting into a debate would let him think that he had wiggle room. Basically, let him know without a threat that it is a polygraph that you need from him.

If you feel like you can push back the date of the polygraph, then you could do that, but you need the polygraph. As long as he refuses the polygraph, you can tell him that you feel he is keeping secrets from you about the relationship with OW. Certainly a polygraph will be able to differentiate between did you do this and did you think about doing this. It can also differentiate between did you touch her with your hands, lips, etc.

You can decide, but I would suggest that you give him a little time re the polygraph. But make it clear that you need the polygraph.

this is a response to Pepper's post, I got it in too late for it to be right underneath of hers



I know, I just don't know what to do now

I want to crawl under a rock, I feel like the way I did on D-Day

I can't force him to take it, but his reaction and refusing to take the test has just confirmed all that I believe has gone on and is still going on

Do I act today or wait, the test is scheduled for Wednesday, I won't cancel it until Wed.am, will have to pay a cancellation fee but that's OK

You: "Husband, I am certain I will not remain married to you without openness and honesty."
Then, be silent.
Be calm.
Wait.

Give him 48 hours to change his mind.
Then expose to everyone all at once.