New here, first post.

Married 17 years. Wife had affair while in grad school in 1995. Came clean and we worked on marriage. Have since had kiddos, dog, the works.

In Oct she decided to attend conference by herself...Im suspecious but convince myself nothing to worry about. When she returns from trip I notice little things and get that gut feeling. But again, convince myself nothing to worry about. Shortly thereafter she confronts me saying she's resentful of our marriage and that I'm not doing enough. I appologise and work my behind off to make things better. At first I'm resentful, but after devoting myself to her more I grow to love her even more. And things turn better.

Today I notice her e-mail account open and I look around...and i'm saddened to find my gut feeling was right. She did have affair. I'm angry, sad and relieved at the same time. Angry with her and him...and me in a strange way. Sad that this has happened once again. Relieved that my gut feeling was right. Strange.

I confronted her after work (had the kiddos head to neighbor's house) and she fessed up. We talked a lot and I'm handling this better than the first time. I think I'm still numb right now.

She's trying to give me space and we are both trying to hold ourselves together for kiddos sake, both under 10 yrs old.

After the first affair I talked to my parents and siblings for support. It was both good and bad. I'm reluctant to talk to anyone right now because I don't want the "you should do this..." or get funny looks should I decided to work on the marriage.

I love her...she's the light of my life. I'm hurt, but I cannot imagine life without her and/or my children. I'm scared to end the marriage and I'm scared to stay in it. Seems like we'd be setting ourselves up for future infidelity if we continue. But how do I move on from 20+ year relationship?

I'm not looking for advice, just an ear to bend this weekend while I wait until Monday and a professional counselor.

From the e-mails it looks as if the affair is over...they spent a week together then back to separate sides of the states. Communication wavered then tapered to none. No contact with him in about a month. And in that time wife suggested and booked a get away to Cancun for us in Feb.

Seems like she wants to work on things but I'm not sure at this point. I'm torn.

Enough rambling. Thanks for listening.

I can understand your being torn and confused. You say you love her. But, it appears she does not love you.
One thing I read that made a lot of sense to me is that , as humans, we all desire to be loved by our romantic partner exclusively. When confronted with an affair, one has proof positive that one does not have that from a spouse.
One thing to keep in mind, your wife is in a select subsection of cheaters, serial cheaters. These folks are much more resistant to being helped and many are personality disordered. You , most likely, do not know about other affairs. Affairs are most often undiscovered. So, if you know for certain about two, the odds are that there are more.
You've taken and weathered some huge hits here, with two affairs discovered. I cannot imagine the amount of pain this has caused you.
Take care of yourself.

Zel: Thanks for the kind words. I debated replying because I feel as if I'm defending her. Maybe I am...maybe I should be...maybe I'm crazy.

Anyway, here goes.

We have spent a lot of time talking since confronting her. She does give me the "I love you...just not IN love with you" crap. I try to get more details but she just can't explain. I think she still has feelings for the other man, even though it's apparant he refuses to talk to her for past month.

Personally disordered...yep, she even admits she's messed up. Even though I tell her often she's sexy, beautiful, hot, etc., it just rolls off her back. But when another shows interest, it's new, exciting...etc.

Do I believe she's had other affairs? No. My gut instinct was right with affair #1, but she denied it, eventually coming clean. And my gut told me about affair #2, but I convinced myself it couldn't be true. In 17 years of marriage I've only had that gut feeling twice and was spot on. Saw no warning signs the other years of our marriage.

Right now we are being brutally honest with each other. She's answering all my questions and I'm telling her just how i feel. Cards are on the table, nothing held back. I feel a little bit better this morning, but still gut-punched (that knot in your gut).

I'm furioulsy reading on this site looking for hints and signs.

It's as if I want to work this out..but I'm trying to push that feeling back and just letting my emotions through.

We have communication issues. Have trouble expressing our needs to one another on a deeper level. Yes, we talk a lot about stuff, but the deeper things aren't touched (like sex). We both admitted our sex life stinks and has been stale for years. She's often wanted to say something, but fearful of my reaction...and me the same.

Wow, that's a lot to digest, but it helps to get that off my chest. There is really no one for me to talk to right now. Don't want to include family in on this right now (did that with affair #1 and regretted it later). No really good friends to talk with in town. So please forgive me if I'm babbling on and on here...

Again, thanks for the kind words. D.

I suggest you either schedule a Marriage Builders weekend (I think there is one in January) or call the Harley's and set up phone counseling with them.

It sounds like your wife doesn't have extraordinary precautions in place to protect the marriage. The Harley's can help her understand what those are and why they are important.

I disagree with Zelmo that multiple affairs indicates a personality disorder and I'd like to see statistics to back that claim. I think it more likely indicates a lack of healthy boundaries to protect the marriage.

After the first affair, what did your wife do differently to protect herself from allowing someone else to meet her ENs?

Do differently to protect herself? Probably not much. Affair #1 was thirteen years ago. We did move away from OM and that town. Re-connected well and communicated better.

I guess I need to look more in to ENs and specifics. We talked again just now about the need for professional help (counseling). She's all for it, both individual and couples. I'm pleased with that progress.

I'm not saying she neccessarily has a personality disorder. BVut, personality disordered folks do have a tenednecy to have affairs , and do multiple affairs make it more likely that she may have a disorder.
As for whether there were more than two affairs, the gut is useful, but really it is possible that there were other affairs that flew beneath the radar. So many go undetected that is just seems unlikely that you discovered the only two.
I would take a look at getting some individeal therapy for yourself. It may help you ascertain if you are the typwe of person that can stay in a relationship with someone that has cheated on you multiple times. The majority of folks do not seem to be able to live with this.
You may need meds , as well as counseling to help you cope with this abuse by your wife.
Is your wife setting up any therapy for herself to see why she has repeatedly cheated on you? Clearly, something is wrong with her to have gone down this road multiple times , now. I would think that if she is serious about making herself a viable marriage partner, she would be putting a lot of effort into fixing herself, as well as repairing the damge she has done to you. Failing to do this type of thing demonstrates a lack of true remorse and a lack of understanding just how abusive she has been.

I absolutely agree that the posters wife is a serial cheater. You will never know if there weren't any affairs, trysts, ONS's etc. unless you subject her to a poygraph. I would make that an iron clad condition for reconciliation. Anything less makes you look like a doormat. Good luck!

This is why I was reluctant to post here. It's easy to make judgements from afar, and probably without all the facts and history of my relationship.

What I really need is people to listen and be supportive. I don't need the "you should do this..." or "you NEED to do that" statements. I know people are trying to help...but the best help for me right now is people to listen, that's all.

DNU1
I understand your feeling here and can empathize. Realize thought that most of us have been through the same things as well. You do not want to see your wife in a certain light pointed out by other posters, I can understand that. I am divorced now and still can not see the real Missy because I see what I want. It is very difficult even still to call a spade a spade so to say.

That being said, everyone has different opinions and angles on how to handle this issue. Read objectively and take what you want and apply it to your situation.

It seems you want to save your marriage. That is a great and noble thing considering the circumatances. Please read up on Plan A and ensure NC as first steps. You may want to consider exposure in the workplace if this trip was work related as well. As bad as it hurts, shielding you WW from the consequences of her decisions can be detrimental long term. Another thing to broach is what precautions will your WW put in place to protect the marriage and your sanity?

DNU1, I suggest you move your thread to the GenQII board for more help. Right now, you are receiving advice from people who have not been on this board very long. I'm not saying that their advice is bad, but that I think you could really benefit from the help of long-term MB members.

I will caution you, though, if you are serious about recoverying your marriage, telling people not to tell you what you should do is NOT the way to do it. The people on these boards helped me save my marriage, while the counselor IRL was encouraging me to take actions that would have destroyed my marriage. Thankfully, I had learned enough here to reject his ignorance and stop seeking his counsel. The only counseling I would ever suggest to someone dealing with infidelity, especially multiple affairs (and 2 is multiple), is with the Harley's. Have you called them?

YOU NEED to educate yourself with the materials here if you want to rebuild a passionate marriage.

The first step to rebuilding is your wife putting into place extraordinary precautions (EPs) to protect the marriage. That is why I asked what she has done differently to protect the marriage. It sounds like you need help with this first and basic step.

Wow, again thanks for the replies. I'd like to move this thread to GQII, but not sure how?

Just talked to a mutual friend of WW and I. I was careful not to divulge too much but was happy to hear from her that my WW was scared, said she screwed up, regretful, fearful I'm going to kick her to the curb, felt like an idiot for letting this happen, sorry again, etc.

Helps to get another perspective and have someone just listen.

My sense is I want to work on this marriage. I'm just not 100% sure at this time. Maybe 95% sure...just scared to tell my WW that I'm willing to work. Maybe I want her to suffer and be uncomfortable for a while? Is that bad of me?

I know I need to demand no contact, passwords to e-mails, blackberry, etc. She has agreed to no contact, partly because the OM stopped calling shorter after their hook-up. It's been a month since last contact. My sense is she's getting over him...just not completely there yet.

I will have to read up on EP's.

More later. Probably sooner than later as this is pretty much my only outlet at this time

Heading to lunch with a friend. Probably can't tell him because his parents broke up over affair years ago and he's still very bitter, and his wife's a big blabber-mouth. No way she could keep this secret.

Going to see counselor this evening. Wife very supportive and will make sure she's home from work so I can head that way.

Keep replying...very helpful to hear all the support. I was reluctant after a few replies, but I'm growing more accepting here, and learning what to filter out

Met with counselor last night and it went better than expected. He uses analogy to make his point and sometimes beats around the bush a little. But I like his explanation of concepts that fit in with MB.com

- fog (falling in love with someone, thinking they are the one),
- love busters (doing small things that annoy your loved one is like dropping a grain of sand on your living room carpet. One doesn't mean much, but after a while you have a beach!)
- Cognitive dissonance – knowing that something is wrong, will cause harm, but doing it any way (engaging in an affair)

I was pretty pumped coming out of that session. I wanted counselor to affirm my feelings for working on the marriage, for making a go of it. I was bouncingoff the walls, but that soon turned south.

Getting a chance to talk with WW I explained some of what counselor said and she understood. Seemed a little reserved, but was still talking. I let her know I was willing to work on the marraige and she said she was too...but I sensed a little hesitation. We talked and talked some more, discussing her feelings for OM.

A mutual friend mentioned that WW was upset at how things ended for them -- OM just stopped communication, no ryme or reason what so ever. That bothered WW more than anything. Feels she just needs closure from him.

This one threw me for a loop. Little background -- my WW is very strong willed when it comes to certain things. Back her into a corner and she's not coming out swinging, she will hole up, dig in her heels and just not want to play. Counselor brought up idea of not issueing ultimatiums, that WW needs to come to decisions on her own. Looking back on our many years together I agreed. Instead of demanding she hand over e-mail, phone passwords, I suggested we open up our lives and not keep anything secret. She was hesitant. And I was a bit shocked and disheartened.

She said she would think about it...that just confirmed my feelings that she is not over OM.

This morning I could feel her putting up walls. Said she was tired, and I can understand...we've been up talking at wee-hours of the night since Friday (about only time we can talk without fear of kiddos hearing). I just had a strange feeling she's trying to build up defenses and walls again. I'm sensing since I told her I'm willing to work on marriage, she doens't have to work as hard now, can lapse back into the old ways.

I asked her a few times how she felt and again got the "I'm tired, but okay." On a positive note she did ask for the counselor's phone number. I didn't push on her at all.

Told her I loved her, she said thanks, gave me kiss on cheek and was off to work.

I'm kind of kicking myself for telling her I'm willing to work on the marriage. I think she's been living under the assumption that I might kick her to the curb at any moment since DDay. She confided to friend that she's surprised she's not gone already. And said to me last night she's feeling torn because she expected me to say "bye-bye." Maybe that's why she's being a bit reserved.

I don't know. I'm glad I've decided to work on this marriage, but I'm wishing I would have held that information back from her for a while. Feels like the balance of power has shifted from me to her, if that makes sense?

Thansks for listening. D.

A positive note:

One thing she offered up last night was that she dreads hunting season. Said it’s been better this year, but in the past two years she’s been very disappointed with my hunting a lot.

It’s not so much hunting, it’s that things don’t get done around the house – cleaning, cooking, laundry, kiddos homework, stuff like that.

She did say I was better this year, but past two years she really dreaded the coming hunting season. Made her really upset.

I was soo glad to hear her say something like that. It was really progress for her to come out and say something of that nature. She’s so much a person who holds things in. Baby steps. Baby steps.

*Thread moved from JFO at poster's request.*

DNU1,

I'm certain you will get the support you need here. Good Luck.

Thanks ASterisk!

I'm pretty jumpy today. Wife looked foggy before heading to work. We've texted back and forth and talked a few times on the phone about our 10 year old. Her tummy is hurting and she doesn't know why.

Both WW and I are thinking she may be sensing the trouble in our marriage.

WW has attempted to get in to counseling but first open dates are Jan 13th(?!!!) Aarrgh. I think right now I'm just very impatient...want things to move forward...and NOW!

need patience and something to help me calm down. Probably need to get on meds.

Have you read Fall in Love, Stay in Love or His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley? I started reading everything that I could get my hands on.

No one here knows what you need except you. We merely try to help. If there is something you don't like, don't take it into account. I have found certain people relate better to each other on here...similar personalities or something.

I would suggest that you guys try to figure out WHY or HOW (what allowed) this to happen and what will prevent it in the future. I am the type of person that I would never forgive the 2nd offense, but I found this site and have learned alot. My WW and I are practicing the MB concepts and putting into place the 'extraordinary precations' and protecting our marriage. Have you read all the info on this site? There is a ton of info to get you started.

Thanks, I'm planning to order books. I believe I now why and how this happened -- me not meeting certain emotional needs (chores around the house, communication), her hitting the big four-oh (mid life crisis), OM being very slick and a player, me feeling the marriage didn't need any maintenance, nothing to protect our marriage. And a lack of self esteem on WW's part.

Found this site just after DDay revelation. Reading my behind off ever since then. Got counseling last night...she's getting counseling soon. Couples soon also.

Thanks for support.

DNU1,

You said
I hate to disagree with you, but I do. What you have listed are reasons she might not have been happy in the marriage. They are NOT reasons for her having an affair. And here is where you really need to pay attention to the info on this site.

One can be unhappy in the marriage. Fair enough. However, one has many options to address this unhappiness. The obvious one is talking to the spouse and discussing strategies that would help the marriage. The next one is to seek counseling from a counselor. One could see a clergyman/woman and discuss the issues. One could seek out a parent or trusted friend and discuss the issues. One could decide they don't care and file for divorce. And the ONE thing they can do is have an affair, but oddly this action does NOT address the issues, help the marriage, nor even effectively end the marriage.

In short, the affair is simply selfishness. It is not caused by the actions you listed. It is a decision based on few or no moral boundaries.

For your marriage to work, your W is going to have to change her perspectives about marriage, her honor, what her word means, the value of her family, and how to address issues, and finally her boundaries as to what she thinks is acceptable behavior while in a marriage. Until her perspectives change, she is likely to address any further marriage issues the same way. She just might be cleverer the next time.

I will tell you that you are much more attuned to your W than you think. You have correctly detected the changes in her that signaled her affair.

I will also tell you that withdrawal takes awhile. The affair is almost like a drug and until she gets through withdrawal she will be in and out of what we call the fog.

Finally, your desire and efforts to work on the marriage do NOT mean she is forgiven, nor does it mean you will succeed or not change your mind. However, if you decide you really want to work on this marriage, the tools you will learn here will help you in relationships whether it is this one or another. Also if you do decide that you don't want to continue this marriage due to her lack of effort, you will know you have done your best for her, you, and your children. In short, the effort to try and rebuild is worth it, no matter the outcome. My suggestion is go for it.

God Bless,

JL

Wow, powerful words Just Learning. Much appreciated.

yes, there are lots of things, more things than I can list. Knowing my WW for 20+ years I've seen her grown exponentially. Even with all that growing there are still times when she's selfish and above all, fails to communicate.

More later...she's sitting on couch and we are spending some quality time watching football...one of our favorite things to do.

Here's a question for you. I feel uncomfortable telling her I love her mainly because she doesn't say it back towards me. I still want to say it to let her know.

Good idea or bad idea?