I remember that he quit calling a month ago, but I bet he takes "this" opportunity to call her up.

Let's hear from the rest of the group about their thoughts. I can see waiting to see if WW will tell you if there is contact AND I can also see benefit in using this exposure to OMGF to ask WW for a NC letter and let her know what you've done and expect her to tell you if he attempts contact.

Others ... your thoughts???

I like option #2 (tell WW I exposed to OMGF, ask for NC letter). Feels more honest and up-front to me. And puts pressure on her to come up with NC letter.

Perfect chance for her to prove her honesty. Do not tell her, see what she does.

This is only if you really decide to go the R route. Frankly, with a serial cheater I would not recommend that.

Would not recommend what?

Not recommend telling her about contact with OMGF? Or not recommend working towards recovery with my WW?

Don't tell her about contact, test her.

If you 'caught' her twice you should assume that you did not catch her many other times. Do what you will but I advise strapping her up to a polygraph.

Iam: I appreciate your honesty. I really do.

It's hard for me on this forum because I want so badly to work on my marriage that I try to listen to much of what is posted here. Yes, my situation is both different and similar to others. Yes, I'm dealing with TWO affairs, if not more.

Yes, I've instituted keylogger and am snooping more.

At this point in time I am working on my marriage. I've examined myself, my feelings, my wants and needs and I've choosen to work on my marriage. Please support that decision.

Saying you couldn't trust a serial cheater does not help me. WW and I have a very long way to go. I need support.

DNU,

Support doesn't mean agreement. Support means providing you with all of our insight in an effort to help you. If you were an alcoholic who decided he was just going to drink a little and asked for support , then I'm sure you would see why some would not offer encouragement on that path.

I think many here, me included, are saying you have probably been cheated on numerous times and your current actions will probably lead to being cheated on again. That being said, if you want to live in a marriage like that more power to you.

Exactly.

DNU1,

In all honesty ... it really DOES make a difference in the advice given whether we are advising a BH who is dealing with a one time thing or a serial cheater.

Most of us have learned the hard way that we would never put ourselves through this he11 a 2nd time, and for those that choose to tackle that task, the requirements of your WW should be MUCH more strict than before.

All WW's are NOT the same ... some are much worse ... and WW's with multiple A's are near the bottom of that list ... for obvious reasons.

DNU, I have a suggestion. I think you do need to tell her about it if she doesn't tell you. BUT, I would suggest telling the OM's brothers NOW and getting that out of the way. If she is going to be upset about exposure - and she will be - get your money's worth and get it all done at once. That way you deal with only one explosion and not several.

After this is done, you can tell her in the next day or so what you have done.

And BRAVO to you, my friend, for choosing to be COURAGEOUS and do the right thing. You are a KNIGHT and not a SERF, and I am proud to know you!

Iam and Rev: I understand.

I try to keep an open and remain positive. I want to hear the feedback. Lord knows I would be out of my mind crazy without the feedback and advice given here.

I want to look back on this event when I'm old and dying and say I made the right decision, whatever that may be (Plan D or Recovery). I'm working on my marriage. Haven't forgiven WW. Don't trust her. I'm watching closely.

I'm slowly, subtly moving forward.

It's just hard to read the "I would never forgive A#2" comments. It's easy to give advice. It's another thing to be standing in my shoes, living my life.

That's why I want to take my time and give this a chance. For my sake.

Thanks Melody.

Just one thing ... PLEASE lose this mental roadblock. I see this attitude a lot from BH's and it rarely (if ever) serves them well. It causes you to overthink, which leads to inaction and causes you to lose focus.

Others will likely disagree ... but NONE of us KNOWS that our actions are/were correct for many years, if ever. I'm 18 months out, and at times, I'm still not sure if I did the right thing. So don't wait on PERFECTION ... it can't be achieved in a situation as ugly as adultery.

Forget about waiting for the "right decision" ... you just have to do your best with the situation and information available to you at this moment. Don't hold yourself up to an IMPOSSIBLE standard.

DNU,

I hope you were able to read some of my replies to your comments in Kangkoks thread.

Also all other MBers. Please read Kangkoks thread and add your 2 pence (he is in England) as he needs a plan.

Thanks again Rev. I'm very analytical...and can argue both sides to any argument. That is why this is soooo terribly hard for me. I see all sides - Plan D, Recovery, WWs side (still understanding) OM (okay, not really, but maybe), and mine.

Deep inside me I want our marriage to work. Yet I know there are many roadblocks, many obstacles to overcome. WW needs to show me a lot of transperency, built boundaries around our relationship. She's making progress and I have to be patient, not use LBs.

Have to run. Kiddos home from school. Thanks again, D.

Update: got the kids off to bed last night and told the WW about my conversation with OMGF while closely watching her reaction. She was calm, but crossed her arms never taking her eyes off me. She asked how I told her. I explained.

I asked what she feeling. Shrugged...then said she was shocked I called GF. Asked why I called her. I explained that she needed to know and threw in some more "stick" of Plan A (You are to blame for A, so is he. Didn't apologize for calling GF. Need to own your actions, etc.)

She asked if I called to get back at OM in some way. I was honest and said "...a little. But the main reason was OMGF needed to know."

I asked what she was feeling towards OM and she admitted some mixed feelings. Again asked if any contact had been made -- she said no (I can confirm no e-mails (hello keylogger) and from what i've seen on phone, nothing. Yes, she can erase call log, but she has been very open about leaving her phone around house).

We talked about affair / love for OM being like addiction -- feels good at moment, crave the contact, etc. Compared to druggie being clean...then even a small amount of drug takes them right back to addiction. That was good analogy for the medical professional WW.

Talked about how exposing A to GF helps bring closure, how WW can't contact him again. She again agreed to NC and said she would let me know if he contacted her.

And she agreed to share e-mail passwords, phone logs, text logs. She was a little iffy (I still sense some withdrawl) but agreed. Boundaries!

I'm moving over to her company phone plan today, so gaining access to complete phone records. We talked about transperency and opening up our lives to create boundaries around our relationship. She agreed [note, these conversations were long and in depth...I'm paraphrasing here for brevity. This wasn't me saying "need this" and her nodding in agreement]

I watched her very closely the remainder of the night. I could see she was thinking, processing, pondering. I headed right back in to the carrot of Plan A.

I'm really pleased with my approach last night. Subtle yet strong. Influential yet not demanding. I'm pleased with her response to all of this information and conversation.



6:00 AM: Another update. Fire up my phone this morning and get a message from OMGF. She confronts OM and his reply is something along these lines, "Don't know why BH called you. I did bump in to WW while in Vegas. Nothing happened, blah, blah, blah, blah"

I think it was Rev who said be prepared for this kind of response from OM. Obviously OMs been there before. Thanks for continued support.

That's it for now. WW is off early today. She suggested we do some shopping (clothes for me!), lunch and possibly hit the gym.

I've forgotten ... some of these threads run together ... do you have any saved physical evidence admitting the A (i.e. saved emails, text messages, etc., where WW & OM openly discuss the A) that you can forward to OMGF to prove your allegations?

Can you tell from her correspondence whether she believes your story or OM's?

Rev: I do have access to e-mails my WW sent to the OM. Nothing from OM to my WW.

I only listened to GF's voice mail. Not sure if she believes me or him. I'm guessing if I forward an e-mail he will just say it was fabricated.

GF said she was sorry this caused rift in my marriage. And hoped things worked out for me and WW.

I will call OMGF later today (they are 3 hours behind me), and get a better sense of her feelings.

He's covered his tracks pretty well. No incriminating e-mails to WW...only phone records. I'm sensing he will deny, deny, deny until he's blue in the face.

When i told WW last night she predicted he would deny. I believe this will help her get over him and push her through the withdrawl stage.

Your wife should APOLOGIZE to OMGF.

Your wife should make the call to her and explain.

It would help her heal.

What she did to another woman is truly horrible, and she should TRY to make amends.