DNU1,

I like this advice!

Like I said before ... "I" wouldn't attempt to R with a serial cheater ... but its "YOUR" life and you want to try.

Therefore, my advice is that you need to set the recovery bar VERY HIGH for a serial cheater, and having her make a call to OMGF will do two things for you (1) there is NO WAY that OMGF will believe OM AFTER your WW calls her and confesses to the A with OM, and (2) your WW will take a GIANT step towards "owning her shi!t" ... its time for her to take responsibility and face some consequences for her actions ... REMEMBER WW's ACTIONS speak much louder than any WORDS ever could.

Let's see what your WW is actually made of ...

And while she is professing her eternal love and sorrow to you how about she puts some skin in the game?

Ask her to give you custody, CS and the assets should you divorce. Any truly sorry WW should offer that at a minimum!

DNU1,

As (at least) a 2 time adulteress, you MUST realize that her WORDS are worthless ... she has PROVEN that by her ACTIONS ... she has PROVEN that she will LIE and DECEIVE you for HER benefit ... have her PROVE to you with ACTIONS what she is willing to do for YOUR benefit.

iam is right ... this is not normal MB R advice where the BH is dealing with a WW who has made a one time mistake and is now ashamed, embarrassed and remourseful ... this is a situation with a multiple cheater who needs to SHOW you through ACTIONS that she CAN be considered marriage material by learning from past mistakes and actually CHANGE her whole outlook.

In your case, you will need EXTRA:

openess and honesty
transparency
extraordinary precautions
just compensation

... and if you don't see FULL compliance with these basic terms, then its better to walk now, rather than be hurt later after wasting MORE of your life on this broken woman.

I also agree with iam that requiring a POST-NUPTIAL agreement with the terms he suggests would be a good start for her to put ACTIONS to her WORDS.

Be ready for the OM to attempt to contact your wife to find out what she told you!!

InLikeFlynn:

I see from your sig that you have been the BS twice, like me(?)

I'd be interested in hearing more from BSs who have gone through this twice. Granted, all situations are different, but what are your thoughts, fears, hopes, etc.

Thanks, D.

Thought for the day -- hope.

My eyes are about bugging out of my head from all the reading I've been doing lately. Both on this site and SAA book. Loads and loads of informaion bombarding my little brain, forcing me to think, examine, contemplate...then re-think all over again.

One day I'm discouraged, the next I'm encouraged. Sounds like par for the course in a BSs world.

Today there is hope. Not hope from reading anything here or in the book. Not hope from any little thing the WW has done in the past few days (and believe me, I've been watching...CLOSELY!).

Hope springs from my examining the past. My history. Her history. Our history. I look at the things I've done (not meeting ENs, not building boundaries, etc.) and I'm coming to understand just a little why these A's happened. I'm not there yet, and may never be able to fully understand. But there is hope.

I know she's a "serial cheater," and I know Melody, Iam and Rev are telling it to my straight, with no filter because they want me to know. No, they NEED me to know. I appreciate the "right in your face" feedback (even though some days I'm reluctant to accept it right away).

Today I have hope. I'm hopefull because in the past when there has been an issue I felt strongly about, I have been able to subtly, quietly, ever so slowly get her to just see my line of thinking.

Some might call this manipulation...that's a strong word. I'd much prefer "helping her understand." I'm not talking about manipulalating her to "love me" or somehow forcing her to read SAA, or agree to demands (caution, avoid LBs). I'm talking about helping her understand Harley's principles. Helping her see the light.

As a previous poster said, I cannot educate her, nor should I. What I'm talking about here is subtly, carefully and ever so gently moving her towards wanting to learn Harley principles.

That is why, today, I have hope. [check back tomorrow at our regularly scheduled time to see anti-hope...I'm sure it is coming :)]

DNU,

I think the word you are looking for is persuasion.

Hope, what a powerful word and feeling. It is what this site is about. If you have hope you must act, and try. That is a good thing. I often think people don't realize this site is about hope. One needs the unvarnished truth, but hope is what this place is really about.

Why Do I say this? Well, let's examine your situation. You have hope you can make the marriage better. That may or may not turn out to be the case. BUT...if you learn and use the tools here, no matter how this marriage turns out, you have every reason to know and "hope" that your next relationship will in fact be rewarding and satisfying to you.

Don't lose your hop DNU, just understand that sometimes the things you hope for come from differnt places than you expect, be prepared. There is no better way to hone your skills, and learn new perspectives than trying to save what you hope to save, your marriage.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL!

DNU, you are doing great! I see you growing in STATURE right before our eyes by becoming a LEADER in your marriage. Your wife will greatly respect that!

A couple of things I wanted to touch on. In addition to asking her to tell you if the OM calls her, I would work out a plan of action if he does call. For example, she should be prepared to hang up, etc, if he does. Its not enough to plan to just TELL YOU, she needs to plan to AVOID his contact. She should have a plan in place to avoid him.

Have you exposed yet to the OM's brothers? I would implore you to get this done NOW and stop dragging your feet. The sooner you get this over, the sooner you and your wife can move forward. You don't need to be dragging up a new thing in 2-3 weeks when things have settled down. GEt it done now while the getting is good and move on.

And lastly, I would take a good hard look at going to a MB weekend. Dr Harley's program really does work and can result in an affair proof marriage where you are both in love. He knows his stuff and is worth every penny. His staff will walk you all the way through every lesson no matter how long it takes. You will have daily access to Dr Harley over on the weekend forum. It made an amazing difference in my marriage and since you are on affair #2, I would strongly recommend this.

Keep up the good work, DNU!

D,

You wanted to hear from others with serial WWs, well, I'm your huckleberry!" (Tombstone, the movie!!!!).

Anyway I too am in the heat of battle, just returned to MB forum yesterday to start posting and grab me a big slice of "Hope". Your welcome to read my stories, the first, seven years ago and again a month ago I discovered the second A.

I am plan A right now as well (hatin it!!!!!). 6:30pm here, Friday night, W still at work, hopefully not making contact with OM :=(. It tears me up not to know if she is or isnt. So, I'm gonna settle in here for a bit, pour myself into a bottle of rum and try to numb my brain, so I can get up and do it all over again. I have a gig two hours away in San Diego for 12 hours tomorrow, customer is proflowers.com. Do they sell Black Roses???

For anyone who has read my thread, does it sound like me??? Is my resentment fueled attitude showing???

Sorry all, just venting.

Having one of those tortuous moments....

D, just wondering how you dealt with the first A. Did you use MB principles? I did the first A, and it went as planned, perfectly executed (sort of) and ended desirably, but not easy by ANY stretch of the imagination. Since then, something has gone sideways, either ENs not met or not LB deposits, dunno. Getting great feedback from senior members though, "YOU GUYS AND GALS ROCK!!!".

So, we're in this together.

My apologies, but Im in no position to offer advice. But feel free to hit me up anytime, I can always lend an ear and a shoulder.

Hang in there brother!

Sincerely, Gid

Thanks Gid! No need to explain the quote...I'm a fan of that line!

And no, did not know about Harley's principles for affair #1. Looking back I realize I lucked into a Plan A (even the blind squirrel finds an acorn every once and a while) even though I had no clue an OM was even in the picture. Worked my tail off to be a better hubby and it worked.

My problem, our problem was after DDay#1. Lots of communication but also LBs. It was difficult, and a long road. And I think I was too eager to forgive and move on. I wanted to put it in the past and not talk about, not acknowledge it even happened. Mistake. And looking back (hello, hind-sight!) We just laid the foundation for A#2. Yes, it was 13 years of good marriage, but I'm sitting here after DDay#2 none the less.

I am grateful that OM is out of contact for close to two months now. WW and I are pretty much glued together at the hip any time she is not at work. We talk, we laugh, we discuss the A, we enjoy rec activities together, we are re-connecting.

It's slow, I admit that, but I'm seeing progress. She brought up the topic last night and even suggested I touch-base with OMGF to see what was up. And WW even offered to talk to GF and apologize(!) with no prodding from me. Progress.

WW is moving forward and I'm patiently "helping her understand" the things I need.

Mel, thanks for kind words. No plan of action developed yet, and no contact from the OM. PLan of action a great idea, thanks!

I've not contacted the brothers. I'd like more conversation with GF...she may have even talked to them already. OM continues to deny the A. I can envision your reply to this already...I've got a plan & timeline for this...trust me here. With a little "helping her understand" (pursuasion) she will soon be saying "we need to tell the OMs brothers about this!"

MB weekend a great idea. However WW and I headed to mexico for some sun next week. WWs idea back in November. I questioned this vacation idea after DDay and she said she felt it would be a good thing to connect with me.

That is it for now.

Hang in there Gideon! I'm with you brother! Together we shall work hard and do our best to move forward. D.

DNU, instead of waiting on an unrealistic and completely unncecessary delay, can I suggest you email or call them NOW? There is no reason to delay and there is no reason to demand that she do this. If you don't tell the brothers, the OM may tell them himself. And if he tells them, it will be a highly spun version with you starring as the "jealous nutjob."

There is no reason to delay, DNU.

[/quote]




It's slow, I admit that, but I'm seeing progress. She brought up the topic last night and even suggested I touch-base with OMGF to see what was up. And WW even offered to talk to GF and apologize(!) with no prodding from me. Progress.

[/quote]

Why does she want you to touch base with OMGF? What does she mean "to see what was up"? This sounds to me like it could be an effort on her part to find out what OM is up to and if he and OM GF are still a couple.

It is also possible that her willingness to talk to OM GF and "apologize" could be an effort to get information about OM or at least to put herself into OM's thoughts.

I am concerned about these statements primarily because OM dumped her and she expressed sadness at that fact.

I think that in this situation, she should have no contact with OM or OM's GF. You can have contact in order to complete exposure, but I think that your wife should be kept completely out of this exposure loop.

Why the need to tell OM's brothers?

I suggested my WW talk to the OMGF in order to appologize and further close the book on OM (at suggestion of others in this thread).

In addition to WW feeling terrible about our situation, she feels bad that OM lead her to believe GF was just "a friend, nothing else."

OK,
I thought it was her idea to contact OW. It is good that she is showing remorse.

Hope yesterday...dispair today (I called it)

OM texted WW last night while we were driving home from party (she driving, me picking up the text). I read to her.

Basically OM said (I'm paraphrasing here) "he stopped communicated with her because he thought it would come to this. It would be nice if we stopped calling OMGF...she gets picture. Hopes WW and I can work things out."

Confusing.

Wife still not sure why he stopped communication, broke off affair. I'm sensing the way it ended still bothers her. Could see her slipping into withdrawl right before my eyes

We talked a lot on way home and before bed. I could see the effect on her emotionally. I love busted a little (bad DNU), trying to influence her to write an NC letter.

Today I pushed more to talk, but she withdrew and got really quiet. Said she wants to think about things for a little while. I need to dial it back to the strong Plan A and stay away from LBs.

Disappointed and down today. But we are watching FB and spending quality time together. Hope, where art thou?

DNU, he shouldn't be contacting her at all. You can see what happens when he does. Ask her to send him that nc letter. Perhaps she can email it and cc the OW? This is very dangerous with him contacting her. I have no doubt this contact has triggered her and given her HOPE for the affair.

adding paragraph about nc along with nc letter template:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Also, you might respond to the scumbag and tell him that you are intercepting his messages and he can stop.

D,

Boy were you lucky in intercepting that text, I havent even seen my W cell phone in a month, she hides it like a national secret. She would be furios if I even held her phone, claiming invasion of privacy.

If you didnt intercept it, do you think she would have let you know about it? I cant say, I dont know her, but my W would keep it to herself.

Not much to report on my battle, I worked at a customer site two hours driving distance to San Diego, from saturday morning to sunday morning, over 24 hours without sleep. Sleep doesnt come easy now anyway, along with food and a clear mind. We did speak saturday before I left, and we had incredible sex last night, but she just rolls over and sleeps, when I would like some afterglow closeness. Im not pushing anything right now. Her mom and my daughter were with her, so I believe NC.

I dont know about you and your/W daily schedule, but with mine commuting and working long hours, its always at the forefront of my mind as to if any contact with OM was going on, Its a killer.

I'm sure the way it ended (if it ended) bothers her. My W first affair, she wanted revenge for being used by OM. I used that as my queue to plan A, shes emotional and pissed at OM, I'm plan Aing my [censored] off. She responded well. But, I knew for sure the A was over then, now Im not.

I believe your right with strong plan A. Right now thats my tact as well, along with continued snooping to do my best to guarantee there is NC, there is no 100% here, but I have to do what I gotta do.

My W gives me that same "Think about things for a while" routine. I dont react to it, just try to keep my finger on the pulse of the situation.

Hang in there D, hope you have a great day man!

Gideon