Put it this way:

You've had war declared on you and you're still in denial it's happening.

The court doesn't care about you "just getting started". Are you employed and is it steady work? Good enough.

Put it this way, excluding my house I'm over $60K in debt. Throw in my should and it's about $260K. The court didn't care about that stuff. Most of the debt outside the house is legal bills.

My fiancial situation had no part in this.

Not only that, but a lawyer will advise you once he takes a look at your situation, but you are being setup as an abuser that your wife and child need protection from. Now you have her setting you up with witnesses from her work about how you came there threatening her.

I know you don't feel you have. But she is setting you up!

Lawyer up now!

There is no harm in talking to one. None. Just talking to one doesn't mean that you're filing for divorce and going to court, but you are in grave danger and don't realize it.

Trust me as a man who has been through it and has seen your story play out on this forum numerous times.

How do waywards lie?

My own personal example:

My exww claimed I was taking showers with my 4 year old daughter and got a therapist in an attempt to set me up for abuse charges or inappropriate behavior.

She also claimed I was putting my daughter in a crib as punishment and would force her to stay in there till she peed herself.

Guess what. I NEVER DID THESE THINGS!

So lawyer up and be prepared to deflect charges and protection orders because they will come!

You need to file for custody and get an ex parte order that your DD stays in the marital home until there is a custody hearing. That's different than divorce.

But even filing for divorce is a smart legal move since you can always withdraw it! Mortarman did it. He had it drafted and ready to go. His wife was a fogged out wayward. He got full custody of his kids.

Wake up! Lawyer up or you will be a casualty of the system because they will give her the benefit of the doubt with abuse charges unless you act proactively!

that is how I interpreted you saying that I am overthinking things and doing nothing. I have been taking action. I have been confronting many parties in this. I may not be taking the action that is advised by you and pom yet. I do realize it is good advise. I especially need to do that now, since my wife just gave me an order of protection today. It was full of lies and I went to the court and filed for a hearing to contest it. I am going to get a lawyer tomorrow, and see about filing for custody. The conflict has greatly increased at this point, and mostly because I have stood up for my family and against the enemy.

Arizona♦

I'm sorry, Zambo.

You are not the first BH to have this happen to.

What did she say you did?

Today, she got an order of protection against me. She is also filing for divorce. I found that out from the court. I am going to get a lawyer and file for custody, even though it is very likely that I will lose that battle. But it is better that I stand up and take charge and do it, since it will look good in the long run. There are false charges in the order of protection, and I am going to fight those as well. ♦

Yes, an order of protection = a RO.

What were the lies, Zambo? What did she say you did?

not much, I came home from class to make a sandwich for lunch and saw her car there, and her dads truck. I didn't know where she had been since last night, and where my daughter had been. When I came in the house, she told me that I needed to leave, and I told her that I did not. She told me a few more times, and I told her that I was going to stay in my home. She then went to her purse and pulled out the court papers that she handed to me. I read them as she called the police. I said I wanted to talk to them, and she ignored me. I left and then went to the court to discuss the issues I had with the lies in the documents. I was told to document things well, and bring up the truth in court.

Did not leave her workplace after being asked.

That is not true. I respected her bosses words saying that I couldn't enter the building. I was never asked to leave the property, just not to go back into the building. If I had been asked to leave the property I would have. I left at my own will after talking to the OM as I caught him on his way to his car. Even my convo with him was in a respectful tone and volume although I made things quite clear to him.


Also on the order was that I called friends and family numerous times.

that is true, but was after I got back from school hours later to find my wife and child gone, and was trying to find out where they ended up. of course Im gonna call friends and family to see if they know anything.

Also stated was that I had not been living there for 9 months and had not been paying rent.

True, but not stated that I had been forcefully asked by her to leave, and therefore put in a situation where I could not reasonably pay rent.

And the final thing stated was that I moved myself back into the house without her consent.

True, but what does that have to do with her protection?♦

You didn't need her consent to move back into your own home.



Not a thing.

Neither does calling friends and family.


What happened when you went to see your WW? Did you raise your voice? Did she?

She refused to talk to you and asked you to leave, then what?

Her boss came out asked you to leave too?

Neither of us raised our voices. She asked me to leave and I said ok but I want to talk to your boss first, and he happened to walk by right then so me and him went outside. He told me that I was not allowed in the building and I told him that I would respect that. I asked him about affairs at the workplace, and he told me that without it relating to "chain of command" there is nothing that can be done about it. I got done talking with him and left but ran into OM before that and talked with him before leaving. The cops were called after I was gone.

You'll be able to get that RO dropped.

Get yourself a good pitbull lawyer and go for custody.

Do you have family who can help you?

Zambo,

I know I've dished out 2x4s but I truly and honestly feel for you. I understand the shock and disbelief you're experiencing.

First, rest easy. Unless you're not divulging details we don't know, nothing you said justifies a restraining order. You moved back into the marital home. She is upset because she has an ongoing affair.

Do you have any text messages or emails where she admits to doing things with OM?

This will be fairly transparent to a judge when he/she sees it.

The rent is a joint responsibility. Your marital home is your marital home.

Unless she produces witnesses that will testify that you were threatening people and/or not leaving when asked to leave, then she has nothing.

Read shockandbetrayed's thread. His soon to be xw tried the same garbage on him and it didn't hold up.

I have a file I'd like to send you. Can you contact justuss and let him know that you're ok with me contacting you offline? He'll give me your email with your permission and I can forward you a file that will help you a lot.

Zambo, seriously, there is no "being nice" with a WW. This is full out war now that you're entering the custody fight arena.

The men who do well are the ones who don't settle and don't accept the scraps of settlement offers that will be given to you.

Remember, your stance is as if you have already won custody. You must talk about having your wife get visitation with your daughter, not the other way around.

If you're thrown out of your home, then make sure you have a place for your DD to sleep in, a room for her, toys, etc.

If you show you're a good dad then you will get, at a minimum, a shared physical custody arrangement. And if you move near her you're likely to get 50/50.

Now, what evidence do you have about adultery?

Can you hire a PI to get solid evidence of adultery? Is Arizona a fault state? Can marital misconduct be considered?

This is the time when you have to set your emotions aside and start strategizing in a major, major way.

Arizona is a one party state when it comes to recording conversations. That means that you are able to record them legally. So get yourself a recorder and be prepared to catch your WW in all her glory. Get her to rant and rave at you. Get her to tell you you can't see your daughter.

Always be calm and cool in the recordings and calm and cool with EVERYONE. This will work in your favor because she can claim you're some sort of grave threat or danger or irrational, but if people see otherwise, they will doubt her and not you.

Let her be the emotional and irrational one.

Read Mortarman's thread as well. His WW actually lived with OM for many months and she filed for custody and LOST each time. He was very smart in how he handled his case. He documented EVERYTHING and every interaction with WW. He hired a PI to get evidence of an affair. He put major fault on her.

He won custody of his kids, which was the catalyst to getting her fog to lift. They are together now and have a 1 yo son that came after they reconciled, but recovery has been anything but easy.

But YOU must now start thinking and acting.

Let me send you that file to get you rolling.

Remember, there is no compromise when it comes to your kid. You have a right to be a part of her life and no self entitled WW can stop you.

The law protects men who fight and are good fathers and show themselves to be good fathers.

But they can't do anything about you just giving things away.

A couple of other thoughts:

Not paying rent is not justification for getting a restraining order. There's nothing threatening about that.

Rent is a joint responsibility when you're married. She's just as responsible as you for it.

The other stuff is too fuzzy to warrant a RO and won't hold up unless witnesses come forward to testify that you are and were a threat.

The burden of proof of a threat is on her.

And you had every right to move into the marital home. When they ask you why you moved back in you say, "because we are married and that's my home and she was the one who wanted me to leave. I missed my daughter too much and didn't see her enough and she didn't let me see her enough."

Keep in mind that she didn't force you to leave. She didn't hold a gun to your head. So your argument that she forced you to leave won't hold water. But saying that she wanted you to leave and you hoped that the space would help you fix your marriage is understandable.

But you're married and her arguments are those of a woman who doesn't understand the law. The law doesn't say, "oh, it's a woman asking for stuff. Ok, give it to her. She doesn't want her husband to live with her and a restraining order should be issued."

That's not how it works. SHE is the one who needs to leave the marital home. Not you.

Demand that you stay in your home and that she move out and that an order be given that keeps the child in her home.

What may work against you is that you did leave.

Lawyer up and be prepared to fight the most horribly emotionally wrenching fight you've ever fought. Remember that this isn't your wife. It's a demon who wishes to keep you from your daughter and you should fight her accordingly.

And be prepared for emotional manipulations on her part. There will be attempts by her to "lets talk this out".

Hold your ground. She will promise you plenty of time with your DD if you cooperate. She will promise you things that will sound good.

But she'll be lying to get her way. I was promised stuff too.

Tell her to put her promises in writing if she makes any and you'll review them with your lawyer.

The law recognizes formal and legal agreements. They don't care about verbal ones because it gets into a he said/she said thing.

We're in your corner, bud. Hang in there. You have a very experienced core of men here who have been through this battle and can help you with the downfalls and dangers.

I have no evidence of her adultery besides her confession of it, and the OMs confession of it.

it won't let me send a private message, so here: jmbsmd@hotmail.com

where is shockandbetrayed's thread?

Zambo,

I think my WW moved to Arizona last week

From my experience, you are probably freaked out of your mind about the protection order. Don't be. Find the best attorney in the area that specializes in this type of thing. Most important, be HONEST with the good and the bad that you did when you first meet with him. A good attorney will SPIN the bad - you are a betrayed husband who resorted to confronting the OM with words, not fisticuffs. Let your attorney do the work for you. If you go to court, here's what you need to do:

- dress like a GQ model
- NO FACIAL HAIR!
- Get a hair cut if needed
- if you wear contacts, wear your glasses that day. It will hide any squinting
- show up with as much documentation as you can that DISPROVES the allegations. If there are no documents, bring witnesses.
- everytime I showed up at court, all of the clerks and bailifs thought I was an ATTORNEY. It shows RESPECT for the process. You would be amazed at what people wear to court.


NOt sure about your state but since she filed for divorce, it should put an injunction on moving the kids until custody is worked out. Not a good strategic move on her part if she is going to play games with the kids. If she hasn't filed for divorce, YOU DO IT and file under grounds of Adultry!

Also, FILE FOR AN EX PARTE FULL CUSTODY ORDER NOW! While you are at it, file for Spousal support and child support. In most states, you don't need an attorney to do this!

At the very least, it will make her mad. HER GETTING MAD HELPS YOU! Keep your cool! Better yet, keep your cool with a tape recorder in your pocket when she gets mad!

The not paying rent for the home for 9 months and then moving back in may be a problem!!! If its not your home and you are renting it but she is paying for it....can work against you.

Arizona is a community property state. Do you guys own your home or are you buying it or renting? Whose names are on the deed/lease? I think you can beat the PO because she'll have a hard time proving that your dangerous.

FILE FOR CUSTODY NOW! Do it before she does. Has she actually filed for divorce yet? You won't be able to file for custody if she has, but you can contest it in the divorce.

she has not yet, but has the paperwork. we are renting. I was planning on paying FEB rent. too late now.

should I file for custody? or divorce? or both? I prefer not to file for divorce.

also. If I buy a carseat today, I could go pick up my daughter from preschool. Is that a good idea?