Has anyone noticed that there seems to be a HUGE difference in the success ratio here on MB for those that were cake eaters BUT never wanted to end their marriage, those that wanted BOTH the affair AND to keep their spouse v.s the Walk Away Spouse that was willing to dump the marriage and trade in their spouse for the affairee?

It would seem much harder to take back the adulterer that was not only willing to cheat on you BUT REPLACE YOU with someone else...

Thoughts?

Jim

I think its harder to get a walk away spouse to come back, but I don't think its any harder to take them back.

IMHO, the "willing to replace" is fantasy, or delusional to justify the A.

Not always, but to me, the cake eater believes the "rules" don't apply to them, where the walk away spouse believes the "rules" apply to them, but they have special circumstances. Being "willing to replace you" is a special circumstance that prooves their case, but no more real than the history rewrites.

My immediate thought is that this distinction - between "cake eaters" and "walk-away wives" may be the real root between the disagreements the board has seen of late over Plan A.

Those who have argued against Plan A talk about giving the wayward wife an ultimatum - end the affair right now or else we are through. And, yes, that might work with what you describe as a "cake eater", but it would ensure the end of the marriage if delivered to a "walk-away wife".

I've personally seen more of the "walk-away wife" here at MB, but that could just be based on the situations I've chosen to follow, and the fact that my own wife was ready to walk away, before I changed (although she was not in an A).

What would be harder to take back? In my case, I haven't a clue. I think, for me, it would hurt a lot more if it were a "walk-away" situation... but at the same time I think it would be far easier to understand and forgive. I can comprehend falling in love with someone, but a more casual affair on the side is something I don't really understand. Plus, it would indicate that the WW really put a low value on the marriage, to risk it all for a fling, and would indicate lack of feelings or perhaps lack of capacity to love - since the WW would not be in love with the OM, and not in love with the BH either. So, while it might hurt less, it might also indicate that the WW is a bad risk for the future...

Agree with above - altho I would like to add that in most instances we see on this board, the situation is months down the road and the WW is already one foot out the door. I think Plan A works best if the crisis is caught earlier and BH quickly adjusts to the crisis and holds emotions in check.

Far too often - by the time an BH is on the board - he has committed every mistake in the book such enabling the affair or committing LB in every form.

In my case I (or my sons) may have prevented the PA and thus the OM dropped her for greener pastures. Will never know the whole story but more pieces are coming together. Had I waited another few months, the situation would have been a lot different. I did pick up on EN not being met early enough to prevent further damage. I can be thick in the head but in this case I picked up on MB in time.

From what i have seen here....

A WW is generally the walk-away kind. And they are more difficult to deal with. My experience and from what i have seen so far.

WHs generally are the cake eaters and they are quick to come right back into the marriage once they are caught.

I agree that the walk-away kind may have some "ethics" or "rules" (hilarious and outrageous as it may sound but some of you probably know exactly what i am talking about) that may make it difficult to win them back (again depends on the situation). Walk-away kind, in few cases, actually see what BS dont see, ahead of time but failed to communicate and/or think the marriage is over before they have the affair. I dont think they use that to justify their affair but definitely to justify their walking away. Again i am talking from my own experience and from what i have read so far.

Like someone said the walk away kind hurt as much, if not more as the betrayed once they realize the damage they have done to the marriage. (Remorse is critical). And i believe that is a good thing for them to grow as a person and in some cases take that step to recommitt to the marriage.

Walk away scenario i believe takes you to the brink of divorce and does end that way for quite a few compared to cake eaters.

I've often pondered this question. My FWW was a cake eater. DDay was 2/23/08, the day after the PA began (she finally admitted it after she couldn't explain her whereabouts). By Easter, (3/23/08) we were talking divorce, and I moved out, out of state, for a short while (I know, bad move, but this was before I discovered MB). A week later, she came to spend the weekend with me. Both I and OM (as I later learned) thought that she was coming to definitavely end it with me. But she didn't, and when OM learned she didn't, he cooled it with her. So, by April 10, I thought the A was over, and thereafter we were in R. About then is when I discovered MB, and began putting the principles of the Love Bank into practice. But, unknown to me, she was recontacting and wooing OM back. I still haven't gotten a straight story as to whether OM was satisfied thereafter with only being an F buddy, or did she mislead him into thinking our M was still on the rocks.

But, anyway, through the rest of April and May, I thought we were doing fine in recovery. My FWW, however, is very capable in compartmentalization, and was very loving to both me and to OM (again, as I later learned). In fact, once while I was away on a business trip, I called while they were in the middle of IT, but she stopped and answered the phone, going into the living room. OM overheard her conversation with me. I was totally clueless that there was anything unusual with her. FWW later told me that, after our call, OM told her that he could see that she could love two men at the same time.

In June, I became suspicious something was up, and was able to access her cellphone records online, where I discovered she was still in contact. At first she said they were just friends, but then, when I showed her specific calls, like when he called her from his trailer for 2 minutes, then receives a 2-min call from a pay phone just down the road from our house a half hour later, she admitted to still seeing him. One or two more false NC's after this, and she finally ended it for sure in late July.

So, getting back to your question. Our marriage survived because I didn't know about it continuing while she was still in the heat of infatuation. She acted totally normal with me. BUT, when I had ddays 2 and 3, those hurt even more than dday 1, because not only was she still cheating, but now was lying and deceiving me. With these subsequent ddays, I was ready to toss her to the curb. But, her infatuation by this point was burning itself out, and she was able to stick with NC.

I think if she had been a walk-away spouse, our marriage would not have survived. However, if it had, I think the recovery would have been easier, because I would at least feel that she was honest with me about her feelings. The hardest part of our recovery now has been dealing with how skillfully she was able to lie and deceive me while it was still going on.

My XH was the walk away. Just up and left one day (the day after returning from a vacation with his family) I had no idea! Nothing in our marriage had changed. There was no warning.

He kept telling me that he would be coming back, he just needed space, etc. That was until I found out about the OW. It took about a month and a bit of real reflection on my part.

I decided I could do better. We had no children, and no real reason to stay together.

Suddenly, he wanted back. I was done.

Walk away is scary. Like I said, I had absolutely no idea anything was wrong, and my confusion was seconded by everyone who knew us. One minute, XH was bragging about his wife and a week later, he left me for someone else.

I would not have had the patience for a cake eater IMO. I would have lost it. It was already enough that I started to hate my XH, but had he been stringing me along, I would have gone insane... I know it.

Recovery for me was very easy. He left and I did not see him. I was in Plan B (unknowingly), and fell out of love with the person I knew, all the while knowing I would never have that person back. When he did call or try to get ahold of me, it would annoy me to no end. It became me saying to myself, "Now what?"

Walk away was difficult... at first. It became easy though knowing it was over... for good.

My marriage would not have survived if Ike was a cake eater. At least he was out of my home and doing stuff with the OW instead of living here, pretending to care for me, and going behind my back to be with her. Of course, it hurt when he walked away, especially as I had no idea, but I can deal with that a lot easier. While we were separated, I probably would have preferred him to be here, but now, knowing myself as I do, it wouldn't have lasted past Baby D's date of birth. I think (and he knows this also) that is he hadn't come home when he did (before the baby was born) I would have filed D papers soon after coming home from the birth. I love Ike dearly and I think that he is a very special man, but I'm a special woman, too. That is something that I learned while we were separated and partly thanks to MB.

I think that walking away is easier (for me anyway) because there is a little more honesty (as another poster stated). He felt he was doing what was best for him (and me and the kids, weirdly enough...blah waywards!) by leaving because our marriage wasn't what he wanted it to be.

So, I've done cake eating with Ike (years ago) and I've done the walking away. Though it hurts so much,I prefer the walking away. Because he wasn't pretending with me. The cake eating was much harder on my self esteem because, while the walking away made me feel rejected, the cake eating made me feel MORE than rejected. It made me not trust my instincts because I should have known what was going on. And, it made me see how easy it was for him to lie to me about anything.

I hope this makes sense. Sometimes I tend to ramble and have to clean up after myself later.

Galoot, just want to say that in my case, ready-to-walk-away-case, the recovery is not easy (slow and painful) but you are correct in that she is now honest and open...Probably because she actually believes in those "rules" or "ethics". Strange as it may sound, they do...and that is a good thing.

My opinion.

They both suck!

This is main reason I go through these mental masturbation exercises.

My reality of living with the same woman since 1980 is not the same as now.

We are fine now and looking forward to our first grand child and planning for a 2 week backpacking trip in late spring but my instincts are untrustworthy.

I have actually learned to trust my instincts. They were spot on during the A and when we first began R. I get this thought in my mind and it won't go away and it nags at me constantly. Once I research it, I find that I'm right. Ike has been amazed and pissed at the same time.

That's something that I wouldn't have gotten, probably, if we hadn't separated. I really learned to look inward and find ME.

Congrats on the first grandbaby!!! My mom says she likes being a grandma because she can tell me what to do with the kiddos and I can't really say much to her.

I hope you enjoy your backpacking trip. We are planning a cruise in April and to head out west to Washington state in July. I can't wait!

So what if your WH walked out after dday, but then became a cake eater during Plan A, like a massive cake eater, cheating on the OW 3-4 times a week! LOL What if they are both?

Now that my wife and I are in recovery, what are WE going to do now? We're going to Disney World! (Seriously, we are.)

Actually she planned the trip. It's just like old times.

Roy,

LOL! My wife is a total Disney World fanatic. That was where she used to go each summer with her mom and our kids, and without me, and that was where she was supposed to spend the day with her ex-bf.

And when we reconnected, the first thing she did was to start planning a trip to WDW for our family, me included (and not MIL)!

It's amazing the changes that can take place in a wayward. Ike was never into going on vacations or anything like that. However, he is all into planning this cruise (for JUST the two of us, no kiddos) and he has even talked about renewing our vows (though it might be too soon for that). I never considered him a romantic guy and now I realize that maybe he is, but not so much toward me because I am more practical that romantic. Or more daydreamy about silly things than romantic things...I dunno.

What do you men think about that?

I think it comes down to the personality of the BS. My H was a cake eater. It is a bitter pill to swallow that a cake eater can have an A with no intention of ending the M and was willing to look in the BS's face and lie for God knows how long. All for cheap thrills? On the flip side, the WAS who wants a replacement thinks his BS is interchangable and OP is a quality person? WASs see the pain they have caused and still doesn't care?

Both are evil and disgusting. I personally have an easier time with the caker eater. It still sucks but I could not and would not fight for a WS that could witness my pain and still carry on the A. It's one thing to stab me in the back, it's another to do it while I see the knife coming. A WAS that wants a replacement is like a vulture waiting to swoop in. They WANT the OP's family (assuming the OP is married) to be destroyed. I have a harder time with that. If my FWH had been a WAH he could have keep on walking. I already had enough resentment to deal with.

Well, mine was a cake eater and walk-away husband. He began as a cake-eater, though I was not aware of the A at the time. All I know is that OW was caught by OWH and it was her second A (WstbxH is OM#2). OWH immediately threw her out - no ultimatum, nothing. OK, not immediately - he gave her a month to find a place. For about 2 weeks before Wstbx gave me the ILYBNILWY speech, he was very troubled and cranky. There was some reorganization going on at his work and I thought he was worried about his job. I believe now that OW gave HIM the ultimatum - leave your wife or we're done. D-day came a few days after he asked for a divorce. They had an appartment 2 weeks after I first learned she existed.

So, while he was cake-eating, things were fine. But his abrupt departure was crippling. I STILL wanted him back until I dug up the dirt. Obviously he didn't tell me he'd been cake-eating. When I found out about OW, he tried to minimize the time the A had been going on. He even told me he only meant to have an affair, not to fall in love and leave me. Older evidence that is definitely prior to this A suggests that he may have had previous cake-eating affairs but I will never know for sure.

I don't know if or how long I would have put up with cake eating. But I certainly didn't stand a chance as things were. Now if he were to want to come back I wouldn't take him. But that's more because he had deceived me for so long than anything.

That sounds like us... I think I am the more romantic one and my wife the more practical one. And that's fine - it works well for us - but in our Bad Old Days I don't think she thought of me as romantic, and I don't think I thought of myself as romantic. I think I was when we were courting, but not so much during the first years of marriage.

For me, growing up I was never "successful" with dating. Although I was usually in love with someone, they never felt that way toward me... and I assumed there was something inherently unromantic about me and that I just didn't know all the "right moves" or didn't have the "smooth attitude". I met my wife when I was 25, and she was my first girlfriend - and it wasn't until 4 years ago that I ever saw myself as capable of being romantic.

I had to grow into it. I had to grow my understanding of who I was before I really recognized that part of myself. It was always there, but I never saw it, and I don't think my wife did either.

Maybe your husband is similar?