Thanks Melody. My sense it we were very close to a NC letter and WW giving me complete access to her e-mail, phone, texts, etc. It was just a matter of time...I kept trying to avoid LBs and move her closer to transparency...but this contact by OM pushed her backwards a little. That really bummed me out.

She did give me the password to her blackberry last night, so that was a step. I continue to monitor her e-mail (got her password via keylogger).

I noticed myself doing the "disrespectful judgements" LB the morning after OM texted her. I spent some time alone, re-evaluated, re-focused and got back to strong Plan A. Sunday was better. Lots of time together, laying on my lap watching football, back-rubs, cooking her dinner, dishes, getting kiddos ready for bed, the works.

Gideon: I'd like to say she would have told me about the text. WW is growing to dislike the OM more and more -- me with a strong Plan A and the OM denying affair to his GF are helping drive her away from him and towards me

WW meets with counselor today. It's her first meeting...hard to get in.

Guess I'm lucky in that my WW spends 99% of her time at home when not at work. She doesn't go out on the town. She does head to gym with female neighbor (who knows about the A and our efforts to work on marriage). Aside from gym and occasional drink with the female friend, my WW is pretty much a home-body. Makes Plan A-ing convienent.

Work is where the A started -- via text and phone conversations. Remember, OM is three time zones away from us! I'm grateful for that! I'm on her wireless plan now and trying to strategize a way to get phone records (it her company account...). My biggest fear is her at work. So I text and call her at various times of the day.

That's it for now. Oh, one more thing -- I forwarded OMs texts to my phone...so long he had to send in two messages. Unfortunately only the second/last half came through. It reads as follows (little paraphrasing at first part):

...As for GF, it would be nice if you could keep "her out of all of this. I think she's got the picture.....as for me All I can say is I'm sorry an I really hope you can work it all out."

Neither wife nor I can decied if OMs full of crapola or really means this.

Hang in there G! Keep in touch. And give me a link to your thread...I'll search also.

Gideon

Did you expose to OMW?

Copy the text in an e-mail to OMW and indicate to her that you'd prefer that the OM no longer make contact with you our your WW and if there's anything further that she needs to know, please feel free to contact you. Once the OM knows that ANYTHING he sends you will be sent back to his OMW, AND you're perfectly willing to share as much as you can with her, he'll be a LOT less likely to send any more messages.

But get your DVR ready - he might try to call next time to execute more "damage control", thinking you won't be able to copy that to her.

Update: Wife met with her IC last night. She called me immediately after leaving her (female IC) office while waiting for her vehicle to warm up. We talked until she hit the driveway, then talked more.

I'm always apprehensive when WW goes to counselor. Just wonder what the IC is telling her...hogwash or good stuff.

WW said conversation was good. They started slowly with some background, gradually got in to the A and then IC started asking questions about WW's upbringing.

WW has always had a difficult relationship with her mother. MIL is controlling, manipulative, passive aggressive and generally a netagive person. IC thinks my WW still harbors bad feelings towards her. IC suggested when the MIL gest on the pitty-potty that my WW do what I and my FIL do...just let it roll off back.

After reading Harley's book and listening to people her I'm skeptical about all this "tell me about your childhood" hoey. But the wife seemed generally interested, so I put on my patience hat and listened.

Other stuff. WW talked about how she was getting to point of the A being comletely over and done with. Then the text from the OM on Sat night and how this causes WW to take two steps backwards. IC likened it to addiction and someone passing a drunk another drink (good analogy...). I'm glad the IC is telling WW similar to what I've been telling her on the issue of the text, withdrawl from OM, the feelings, etc. So I'm pleased that part of the conversation went well.

IC gave WW two books (okay, actually sold them to her).

1. After the Affair by Janis Abrahms Spring
2. Private Lies by Frank Pittman

I'm going to read these. Anyone have any insight as to how these stack up with Harley's principles?

More on session: IC told WW she was pleased at how open she was, how in tune WW was with her feelings (basically blowing smoke up her skirt, trying to keep her talking and opening up) WW really seemed to like this stroking. It's strange, because WW always talks about how quiet she is, how she doesn't like to talk. Either she felt really comfy with this IC, or the IC is a master at reading and manipulting WW into talking more.

WW talked about how I sometimes push for progress, push for movement on issues and generally get anxious. IC recommended WW take her time, ask me to be patient and not push too hard. It was good for me to hear that from another source besides myself -- because sometimes I don't listen to myself.

Sometimes it's hard for me to talk with WW. She's generally reserved and quiet and I've got some counseling in my background/training. At times I find myself digging for more information or carefully trying to manipulate the direction of the conversation. ** must listen more **

I've got IC session Wednesday morning. We head to Mexico on Saturday for six days in the sun. More updates later. Thanks for listening (even if no one is really listening...it's just good to type this stuff and let it out :))

8:47 PM.

Need a boost, need a pick me up. WW home early today so we did lunch. Good time, good conversation. She headed to gym then we had bball practices to take kiddos to (her to one, me to another).

I'm feeling mighty low tonight. Can't put my finger on it. Just a sense of hopelessness.

D,

Good job man! It at least sounds like the train is on the tracks, all you need to do is build up a good head of steam.

I'm unsure if I am making any progress. W just called me on her way home from work, freakin out about job, kids, home and probably OM, crying. I think she may have had some sort of contact, but not a pleasant one. I just let her vent. I could go on, but I just wanted to check on your progress, the last thing I want to do is bring my cloud in. I'm glad for your progress, happy for you.

Dude, I could use a mexican vaca, I'm very envious of you. I hope you two just kick back, enjoy each other and reconnect. Really, dont think about anything else, just focus on you two and treat her like a queen. Get some pictures of you two, in the sand and surf, at dinner, having drinks, wahtever. You can look back at them and remember the special time together.

I expect to hear all the juicy details when you get back :=)

Cheers,

G

Thanks G! Your words help a lot!

I see the WWs mood gradually improving. She's doing those little things that I haven't seen in a while -- subtle pinch of my behind, the inside jokes we shared, little giggles here and there. Asking if I'm okay. Little things...

I know it's progress but there are days (like yesterday) when my mind plays tricks on me. I get an image in my head of her and the OM together (ICK!). I think "what if she freaks out and just up and leaves." What if she's doing this and secretly behind my back calling divorce lawyer. Aarrggghhh. Just shut the damn brain off already!

I need to keep being patient, keep Plan A-ing my behind off and stick to my guns. I need to make this the most inviting, warm and safe home I can. She inadvertently meets a few of my ENs, because they are top ENs of hers (being close and touchy-feely, conversation). But there are days when I feel like my tank is empty. I'm hanging in there.

Here's a quote for you. Been a good one for me to keep in my head (guess who):

"I gotta keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"

G, I'll post on your thread...Thanks again, D.

Since wife gave me her blackberry password, I took it upon myself to forward the OMs text to my e-mail.

Little background on the exposure to OMGF.

Called OMGF in morning (her time zone) and just flat out told her. OM told my WW that his GF was just a "friend" nothing more. OM told GF he was going to vegas to hang with buddies.

When i told GF that the OM went to Vegas to be with my WW she was pissed. PIssed at OM and sorry he did this to me and my WW (I said takes two to tango...)

GF called me back on cell 10 minutes later to talk more. GF called me next day and left message saying OMs reply was that he did go to vegas with friends, and just happened to run into my WW (liar!). My WW asked if she could talk to GF and apologise.

I called GF again and left message saying WW wanted to talk and apologise if she could bear talking to her. Never got reply back from GF.

Then a few days later my WW gets text from the OM. We are driving home from party, wife driving. I see message come across and ask if I can look. I'm shocked / amazed he even texted. Read to WW and can see her slipping backwards emotionally. Here is text:

"Sorry that it came to this but that's why I stop talking to you then. It never should have went this far. As for Janice it would be nice if you two left her out of all of this. I think she's got the picture.....as for me All I can say is I'm sorry an I really hope you can work it all out."

Wife visibly shaken. We talk and talk a lot more. WW still wants to know why he ended it. Two steps back in her recovering from withdrawl. But she's again making progress.

Interesting phrase for me is the "it would be nice if you two left her out of all of this..." My read: I have a large stick in my hand and am waiving it over his head He knows this and is afraid.

Need to get kiddos off to school It's -20 here today. COLD! take care, D.

DNU,

The two books your W got from the counselor are very good. In fact, in the past they have also been recommended here to complement Harley's books. You might find them interesting reading as well.

God Bless,

JL

Thats a killer!!! So if he didn't want to end it where would you be???

Thanks for info about the books JL! I've started reading the first and it's pretty good so far.

In-Flynn: Well, from what WW tells me about their hook up in Vegas, by Day #3 of 6 days together the OMGF was calling and texting so much that my WW came to realize that they were just more than "friends" (OM and OMGF). Could sense their affair coming to an end.

WW confronted me on things I wasn't doing in the marriage Nov 6th, just week after the Vegas hook up. Her and OM were still communicating, but he was beginning to pull back.

I took the confrontation (nov 6th) to heart and really banged hard on the things I needed to improve in marriage. Had no clue about the A, but had a gut feeling something wasn't right. In essence I started Plan A at this time, before DDay.

By Dec the OM had stopped calling/texting my WW. First week of Dec my wife recomended Mexico trip for us to "spend some time together." DDay was 12-26-08. Crap hit fan that afternoon when she got back home from work.

Looking at this with hindsight I realize I got really lucky. Lucky the OM stopped calling. Lucky I didn't find out sooner and have to suffer through ending the affair. Lucky I found out and can now take steps to work on marriage.

Yes, WW wanting to know why it ended put a freeze on her withdrawl. Luckily her IC said something to the effect "WW, no matter what OM tells you about why the A ended, it probably will never satisfy your curiousity. You probably just have to end it on your terms to come to closure..." (I'm paraphrasing here...)

Update: The week in Mexican sun was wonderful. Normally she wants to sit by pool and worship the sun and I'm one wanting to go on excursions, play in ocean, and just do things. So this trip I committed to just being a pool / sun junkie and meeting her every need.

Got her drinks, food, made sure she was comfy, drug myself out of bed in morning to mark our spots by the pool. You name it, I was all over it. She said numerous times how much she appreciated all I was doing for her.

And I made it a point to just concentrate on us, and not talk to much about the affair. I'm guessing the subject came up two or three times -- it's hard to watch TV, even Mexican TV without some reference to infidelity

We were inseperable for the entire week! And intimate too

So now back state side we have started our exercise and nutrition program. Working out together daily and cooking meals together. It's been good.



I'm debating the following topic and need some expert advice here. I am well aware that the best way to end an ongoing affair is to expose, expose, expose, to everyone. Since my WWs A was over on DDay, there was no need to expose to her family, friends, co-workers, etc.

Here's the question: Do I make my WW aware that if she engages in yet another A, my first response will be to expose to EVERYONE -- her family, my family, our friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc.?

Would telling her about exposure now be a LB? A threat? A demand?

Or would the thought of exposure help her identify a potentially dangerous relationship in the early stages, come clean with me and take steps to fix the situation?

Your thoughts?

You never threaten to use exposure.

You never warn that you are going to expose.

You need to expose because your WW needs to have to face the consquences of having an affair.

Expose WW's parents and her siblings. Expose OMW/GF. If they are co workers then expose at work.

By not exposing you will teach your WW that she can have another affair because there will be no cost to her.

Exposing help to ensure that there will be NC.

I understand your comments but I think you are not seeing my context. Yes, never threaten to expose while WW is in an affair. Never warn when WW is in an affair.

What I'm talking about is this -- now that my WW's affair has ended and OMGF exposed, and we are headed towards recovery -- do I mention to her that IF something like this happens again, she can expect full and complete exposure.

See the difference?

"What I'm talking about is this -- now that my WW's affair has ended and OMGF exposed, and we are headed towards recovery -- do I mention to her that IF something like this happens again, she can expect full and complete exposure."

No, never warn, even now.

Full exposure?

Did affair happen at work?

Did you expose to WW's siblings?

Are there kids and were they exposed?

Everyone, does not mean the same thing.

Did your wife ever agree to have you send the no contact letter?

Thanks Road. That hits nail on the head.

Lake: I believe she was very close to a NC letter. Then the OM texted her and it threw her back a few steps

Remember, I was there and read the text to her...it was basically a "this never should have happened, hope you can work things out...please stop calling my GF..." type of thing from the OM (actual text elsewhere in this thread).

I immediately pressed her to send the NC letter and could tell she was conflicted. So I left it alone for a while.

About a week later, just before our trip to Mexixo my WW said she was thinking of texting OM back. I was a little shocked, but happy she told me. I asked why and she basically still wanted to know why it ended between them, why he stopped calling.

Feeling that was not the best approach for our recover, I subtly convinced her to leave it alone until we returned back from vacation.

I can hear the replies now -- demand a NC letter, NOW. Making demands on my WW typically do not go well. While she is indecisive on issues, if there is an issue she is wavering on or contemplating, and I come across with a strong demand one way or another, she's been known to dig her heels in.

On the positive note, if I'm subtle, patient and take my time working on her, I can with great certainty move her towards my side of the argument. Baby steps.

Tell her it was because he was finished using her. Once he was forced to choose her or his girlfriend he was able to drop her with no second thoughts. That's how much she meant to him.

Oh yes, already did that. Remember, I hunted with this guy three times. When you are out in teh wilderness, alone, no TV, no phone, just standing there for hours...you tend to talk.

And this guy talked a lot. He's a "player." Talked openly to me and others in the group about how easy it was to woo women. How he'd never be married again. How he was just keeping his GF around for his fun (sex), never intending to marry her.

When the EA started he kept telling my WW that his GF was just a friend, no sex involved. When WW and OM hooked up in Vegas the GF was calling and texting the OM regularly. My WW figured out quickly that she was more than a "friend."

WW tells me it was day 3 of their Vegas trip where she realized that the relationship with OM was going no where...but she still held on.

After returning from Vegas his calls and texts dimished. Then OM took his GF to Hawaii. AFter that the OM stopped all contact with my WW (thanksgiving).

When I asked her about the relationship she said she felt used, duped, stupid, like a sucker...then went in to how sorry she was she hurt me, our family, jeapordized our realationship, family etc.

When I told her what I knew about his being a self proclaimed "player" she really felt used. Even more than before. I tried not to do the "i told you so" thing, but she got the point.

Update:

WW on call this weekend, so has to stay in apt close to the hospital (about 20 minutes from our home). We text and call constantly...which is good. Conversation an EN for her. She takes book her IC recommended and got some good reading in this weekend.

Note: I didn't want to kwow the nitty-gritty details of the Vegas hook up @ DDay. Lately my crazy mind has been creating all sorts of images...and I told WW a week ago that I'm going to have to ask those questions (very subtly...wanting to see how she reacted). She said something like "part of me just wants to forget and move forward." Hmmm. I say nothing more and let that seed grow.

Today a week later, after reading her book more she guides our conversation towards the affair -- one of the few times shes brough up the subject. And says it was wrong of her to want to "forget and move forward." Reading helped her realize that she needs to answer those questions...and I need to ask them. More honest and open.

Progress

And a little pick-me up from last night. Went to surprise party for neighbor by myself since wife working. Few of the ladies commented on my shirt -- "nice shirt, looks good on you." WW and I exercising and doing nutrition plan. I'm feeling good, looking good. And today I say to the WW, neighbor gals liked my clothes Wife says, "you do look good in them. I need to compliment you more" (yep, appreciation is an EN for me).

I continue to strive to meet the ENs and be the best husband / father that I can be. Her two friends who have full knowledge of the A keep telling her "he's an amazing man..."

Baby steps...progress...movement forward. Hopefully the rollercoaster doesn't take a nose-dive on Monday. Crossing fingers, saying a little prayer...Thanks for the support.