I'm trying to get this scenario. He was M 13 years ago and his W cheated on him so they D. When you wrote this, were you talking about ex girlfriends or other ex wives?


So does he have more than 1 ex wife? And if not then we are talking about his being obsessed with a cheating wife that left him 13 years ago?

I'm sorry! The ex he was obsessing over is an ex girlfriend. They dated for about 6 weeks the summer('05) before we met. She went back to her boyfriend that she is living with now.

H had only one M. That was 13 years ago.

Gotcha.

Ok what did the XGF say when you talked to her? What did she say about these emails? Does her BF know about these? Did you ask for her to stop emailing your WH?

When I spoke with XGF, she said that the last time they saw each other was about 3 years ago(from 11/08). She also said that when she read the e-mail that I made him write, she decided not to contact him anymore. That's when she found out that we were married. She said she just decided to stop the e-mails and leave it alone. She also said she didn't understand my WH obsession with her because they hadn't seen each other in so long or even talked on the phone.
I have checked his phone records back to 6/07(very time consuming). There haven't been any calls from/to her personal numbers at all.
From what I could see in the e-mails, she did not reciprocate the feelings in any way. She kept it very professional, talking about her day at work, etc. I would bet that her BF doesn't know about my WH's obsession and e-mails to her. If he knows it may be that she was mocking the WH for his obsession. Just a thought.

So you seem to be looking at a M man who is obsessed with a former GF and who emailed her frequently with very sexual writing, but she did not reciprocate at all but went along with it for whatever reason? And it has been going on for several years. Something's not quite right with all of that. If it is that one sided then why did SHE respond to the emails and send pics?

Well it's an A none the less and you have to think hard about what others have said about what your future may hold. You have a WH who has always cheated and lied. Is that his MO? Do you think you even know him? Really?

R is hard. It is very hard even with both S's working at it. And it does require work.

So only you can decide if you can ever trust this man or if you will always be checking up on him because his history dictates that he hasn't been honest with you and he hasn't protected you. Just so you know...not all M should be saved. Personally I would walk away. This man has never proven himself to be a good H much less a decent friend. But that is totally up to you. I know you said that you wanted to save your M, but you may not feel the same way in 6 months. So You shouldn't make ANY decisions until he commits to your M fully and goes to IC. He has to deal with this addiction of his and that should come first before he can work on your M. He's addicted to her and he needs to figure out why. Otherwise she will always be on his mind. Can you stay with a man who has another woman on his mind? Please do some soul searching and protect yourself here.

Shenle,

As an xBH, I can acutely empathize with the pain and sense of violation you feel from your new H's EA (at least) with this ex-girlfriend. I am indeed sorry for the pain and sense of betrayal you are going through.

But, something has caught my attention (and obviously that of other veteran posters on here too). Sorry, but it appears that you acting very FOGGY about your relationship's history with him. You seemed to avoid answering the questions about whether either/both of you were married when you started seeing each other and than admitted above that you were indeed married. In classic form, you then "explained" that by 1) implying that you were in a bad marriage, so that made it "ok" and 2) denying that your relationship with this man (your new H) had anything to do with your divorce from your 1st H.

Every BS here has been told those things (the marriage was bad/abusive/"over" & the relationship with the new OP "has nothing to do with us"). It all right out of the wayward playbook as classic rationalizations of an affair. You mentioned that you met new-H before you separated from your old-H and that you "started seeing each other after you moved out". Note, you didn't say that you started dating each other AFTER YOUR DIVORCE. No offense, but it also seems a little odd that, if your xH was so "abusive", that your son/daughter LIVES FULL-TIME WITH HIM...why is that?

I'm not justifying your new-H's EA one bit, but it is quite clear (correct me if I am wrong!) that you started an inappropriate romantic relationship with him while you were STILL MARRIED to your xH and WELL BEFORE you could have possibly been healed and emotionally healthy... (How soon after the divorce did you two marry?)

My point is: it appears you are in an affair-marriage to your current H and we all know here how utterly doomed to failure those tend to be. You H is cheating on you (emotionally at least) but you fail to recognize that he was cheating WITH you before. The pattern goes on...someone who has so little respect for someone else's marriage will likely have little respect for their own...as evidenced by his EA only 1 month in!

I would take others advice here and get out now. This marriage is doomed eventually even if you 2 somehow "resolve" this ex-gf issue. You need to take some time and truly develop some healthy boundaries, because when we fail to enforce our values and standards, we tend to fall for those we should/would have never been with in the place...

Tough love and good luck

Thanks again for the honest advice. Please don't judge me or my integrity. I should make things much more clear for you.

My DS17 lives with his father exh #1 since 8/08 so he can finish high school at the school of his choice. I've been D from him for almost 14 years.
ExH #2 was the abusive one. I wouldn't even leave the dog with him! We were married in '02. From the beginning until the bitter end, I was called everything from a slut to repulsive. He kicked me out about every 3 months. We went to MC where it came out that he was sexually abused by a step-mother. He didn't want to go to MC anymore. I told him the very next time he kicked me out, I was leaving. So I did.
I met WH at a concert(EXH#2 was with me) and happened to give him a business card(I sold cars at the time). That was VERY normal for me. I moved out of exh#2's house about 3 weeks later(after EXH#2 kicked me out). WH called me regarding business. All he knew at the time is that I was filing for D. WH and I started dating about a month later. We were married about 2 and a half years after that D was final. This was absolutely not an A.

Believe me when I say, letting go and healing from the abuse of EXH#2 was very easy for me. I went through hell with him. I was done with the abuse! It was beatiful to lay down in my own bed, with my black lab(Abbey) and not have to worry about being awakened in the middle of the night for a screaming match. My entire family and co-workers were well aware of what he was. They all told me to leave way before I did. I had so much support and love surrounding me. (Maybe it's my italian family. We're very close.)

I do understand that even if there is NC with the EXGF, there is no way my WH is over his obsession with her. I'm sure he thinks of her.

I want my marriage to work. I know that WH loves me and wants this too. I also realize that quite a few of you think I should leave. I can't leave without trying. Where do I start?

I would do three things.

First, I would retain a PI who will do periodic checks for you - maybe once a month for now, and then once a quarter, and then 6 months, until you're satisfied of ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT. PIs can do a lot of things you can't do, such as follow people, look up records, question people...it will give you peace of mind - assuming he is truly having no contact. If he IS contacting still, you will know and can kick him out.

Second, I would set up a system with WH that you both follow religiously. He needs to agree to randomly give you access to his work email - at your choice. If he refuses, run, don't walk. He needs to continue to tell you where he's going, with whom, when and where everything, and never go anywhere with other women (yes, he is at risk for having affairs with other women). He needs to agree to this for a full year; at that time, you will re-evaluate whether your marriage is resolved and you can drop this. If he refuses, separate. No marriage can survive without this transparency, especially one that's started out like yours.

Third, you need to do some reading here about the MB program. Not the part about affairs, the part about Emotional Needs and Love Busters and Love Banks. You need to learn it. And you need to incorporate it. Marriages take work. YOUR work, not just your husband's. You need to make this marriage the best thing your H has ever seen, one he can't wait to get back to when he's apart from you. Do you need help with this part?

Cat!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I can't afford a PI. Not sure that I need one? Snooping is an art I picked up on in M #2.

My WH has already agreed and given me access to all passwords. I have been checking phone records since D-day-10/02/08. NC so far. He NEVER goes out without me. Not even to the mall. Another agreement we have.

Yes. I will need help on the rest. I'll start reading. Tonight. I have to go to work soon. Will it help for WH to read this too? He's also willing to do anything.

Shenle

Shenle

Most all of the posters on this forum have gone through the devastating pain that infidelity brings. And after reading and learning here they grasp the full concept of what infidelity is. It would be difficult to try to sway their opinions. You feel judged by SDCWman because he has told you his informed opinion, but it is a very good unjudgemental explanation of what is intrinsically wrong in your present M.


After years of being on this forum and learning about infidelity I have found that when a person does not value the sanctity of M evidenced by dating a M individual, then it is HIGHLY unlikely that that same individual will come to value their own M. Hence, your WH. Now you can argue that your R was not an A, but in reality one is M until the D papers are signed. Again there isn't any judgement here just a fact. Your XH abused you and broke his vows to you, however by dating someone else while still M, you also broke your vows to him. In your mind and in your heart(and maybe even to your XH) you were "divorced", but factually you weren't. It is recommended by the Harleys (who BTW have been studying infidelity for decades) that no matter how a M ends, a period of time should be taken to become healthy and whole again prior to beginning another R. It's something that you might want to think about.

Now with that being said (whether you agree or disagree) the fact that a very high percentage of M that begin as an A fail, understandably. So as you look at your sitch and you see the dynamics of it, how could your WH have changed his perception and value of M? He hasn't, it is the bottom line in the problem you now face. For a H to do as your WH as done within a month of marrying you(and years of lying previous to M) speaks volumes of what he does and does not value. Does that make sense? So can he change? That is up to him. YOU can hold up your end of it and improve you and your beliefs so that you become a wife that any man would want, however if your WH doesn't change along with you, this cycle will not end.

It's hard to get beyond this point unless you and your WH both understand what it means to be M. Maybe someone else who can explain it better will chime in and add to that.

Shenle, I'm not going to go on preaching, and I don't think you should run away from this forum. You should read the books that are available on this site. You should read the concepts and principles that Dr Harley has outlined. That's a start. You are going to have to verify that your WH is not doing what he does. You should write down everything that you need to recover from his infidelity and tell him and then put your healthy personal boundaries into place. As mentioned before, you should improve you and eliminate the LBs and try to meet his ENs. You can do all of this and you may R, but your WH is going to have to change his core values and put healthy personal boundaries into place for your M to R. And the problem with that is that we can only control ourselves. He has to see the need to change and then implement those changes otherwise you will be faced with more of the same.

Michele,

Thank you for your diplomatic insight. I am aware that I probably(did) start dating WH too soon. I've read about the 1 year rule.
Nothing I do can change that now. I can only change what is in front of me.

We both want this marriage and want it to be a good one. We're both willing to set the boundaries and to start re-learning. I know that I need to be a good, no, great wife to him.

That's why I'm here. To learn and grow. My H wants the same. If he didn't... If he tried to justify what he did... I would be out the door in a heartbeat.

I know you can't change the past. It's just good to learn from it.

Cat's steps are a good start. Just remember that it's a rollercoaster that can takes years to get through. Trust doesn't just happen, it's earned. The tools for a better M are on this site. You'll be amazed the difference they can make.

Thank you again. I've started printing all the tools already! That way, H and I can read together.

Haven't read this part yet. As far as the love bank, is it a good idea to sit with H and make a list of debits and credits? Is this a good place to start with EN? just a thought.

I will visit often for help and updates!

Long haul ahead...
Shenle

I'm sorry but you CAN afford a PI. Quit making excuses. You can get a second job at 7-11 if you have to, but you CAN afford it if you wanted it badly enough. Apparently you're willing to just believe he's not lying? Um...cheaters lie.

So you have access to his work email?

No, do NOT give him access to MB. Find some other articles from elsewhere to give him to read.

You can NOT trust him. Not yet.

Oh! Good thing I got this first. I'll try to pull a favor off a cop friend I have for the PI. May or may not work. I do have friends that can watch him at his place of employment. That would mean exposure. Is that a good or bad idea at this point? Is this a good tool if I can't get a PI?

His computer at work is out of commission and currently with the IT tech. I can find out when he gets it back. He's rarely in an office because he's a manager/supervisor in the shop.

What other resources can I give him besides MB?

Exposure for the purpose of ending an A is not a bad thing. Basically you tell them that you are trying to save your M and you would like their support. If they can help you, great.


If he's is ok with you giving him information about A's then you could print some of the concepts out or you could purchase the book His Needs Her Needs and give it to him to read. Or you could read it together. You should also purchase Surviving An Affair and read it. It will help YOU understand A's better. Just don't give him the forum and don't let him know that you are posting on any forums. There have been instances where the WS has gotten on here before they were truly committed and it hurt the BS and their plan to save their M. And during the snooping phase is really the most critical. Remember he is not trustworthy.

H and I had a very long talk last night. Talked about needs and how he can make me feel safe and be a better H, how I can be a better wife. He said I'm already a good wife(I came up with ideas that he hadn't thought of). That made me feel better. He still says that all contact ended on D-Day. I called OW again. She said the same. When H isn't at work, he's with me. Also since D-day. I'll stick to the snooping, just in case...

I did lose it(ballistic!) at one point. H said he was sorry, he wants to be with me for the rest of his life, it was a mistake, and it will never happen again. The word 'mistake' is what did it! I reminded him that this 'mistake' was a conscience choice; it ripped my happiness from me; it made me feel worse(about myself) than I've ever felt; and! it almost cost our marriage. I promised myself that I would remain calm. I don't think H will refer to this EA as a mistake anymore!

I also had the chance to talk with my contact at H employment. (This contact came to the house last night to help move a dishwasher). I'll call him Rev. Rev happens to be a life-long friend of H. He also performed our ceremony. Rev cares about us and our M. Rev is a brother/friend/pastor all wrapped into one. We are going to sit and get into more details soon. He has also agreed to counsel me. Rev assured me, as my pastor, he has to keep confidentiality. I know Rev will keep a watchful eye at work!

I know it's hard but try to remain calm when he opens up to you. If you don't he will clam up and you will not get the truth. Your AOs are like punishment to him.

The scenario with Rev is not actually "safe". First off C with a male "friend" isn't always a wise choice. I know you said he is a pastor, but sharing personal info with a person of the opp sex AND is a friend... well it's not the "safest" arrangement for a M person. KWIM? Also the fact that he is a friend to both of you, I would think that your WH should know that Rev is accounting for his actions at work. You and Rev having any secrets from WH is inappropriate BECAUSE he is moe than just a pastor to you. Call it paranoia, but when people share personal info with members of the opp sex(even though they are pastors) bad things can happen. A closeness can arise and then YOU fall down a slippery slope. I would take that under advisement. Any chance of Rev just acting as an accountability sponsor at work for your WH and you C with someone else?

I know I shouldn't have gone ballistic on H. That was stupid of me. I just lost it with the word 'mistake' I'll be more mindful of my emotions. Or at least try. The last thing I need to do is blow up at the person I'm trying to fix things with. Not healthy.

I see what you are saying about Rev not being a wise choice. I can find someone else to C me. He is, however, willing to keep a watchful eye at work. Good idea? Or not?

Again, because he is male I think it would be fine as long as your WH agreed to that arrangement. Your WH would know that his actions will be accounted for by a friend of your M. Now if you actually wanted to "snoop" some more and keep secret that you are doing so, then a female friend is a safer arrangement for that.

Do you see what I'm getting at? ANYTIME a M person is in a opp sex friendship where secrets are held from their S(even in this case) you are asking for trouble. It is the main reason that the PMs on this forum do not function. It is just too dangerous. Many many A's begin by just confiding in a friend of the opp sex. So it's best not to put ourselves in that situation, especially a BS who is in pain from a betrayal. You have to play it safe. Emotions are unpredictable.