AND His wife because of her very real guilt over her affair is POWERLESS to process HIS AFFAIR with him.

She's screwed whichever way she turns. (the cenaored word is what you would do with a ***driver)

oh yeah - I almost forgot! We found Mike_C2's fictional happily married couple complete with an undisclosed drunken ONS 20 years later. Not so happy are they. I really do wonder why!

I used Refog, you get a free trial, then $39. www.refog.com

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I busted my WW within 12 hours of the free trial. <rubs heart>


BTDT, got the mouthwash.

After a great deal of pondering, I've decided that with any poly I'd have to be ready to have two, or maybe cut a deal with the ploygrapher for a twofer.

If there is a fail, WW might just say "oh, it was the test!"

A double fail would be hard to get by, for either of us.

Be well, AOTC...

Put your story in your sig, you'll get better responses.

Having been in your position, I tried to spend a lot of time alone, just pondering and stewing, and kicked back 2 or 9 drinks.

I'm not saying it was the right thing, it is just what I did. :-)

Let's pick things up since the last time I posted. Plenty's happened since then.

MelodyLane #2208183 - 02/07/09 10:17 AM

Mel, you need to read posts better. Your advice is great, but this marked the second time you misread what I'd written. In fact, as in the other case, the answer to your question was in the following paragraph. This time, it was Ace that pointed that out. (Thanks, by the way, Ace.) Conclusion jumping hurts credibility.

MelodyLane #2208404 - 02/07/09 07:41 PM

When I told her, she had questions, most of which I could not answer due to the time factor. I can't remember a name, or a face. I deliberately did my best to block them out over the years. The fact I did it was enough. And you know what she did after that? She tried to make me feel less guilty about it; tried to make me feel better. Yes, we have different personalities, but maybe not as much as you'd think. She was trying to protect ME at the point. Go figure.

bigkahuna #2208402 - 02/07/09 07:34 PM

She didn't just find out. She found out three months ago.

bigkahuna #2208414 - 02/07/09 08:12 PM
bigkahuna #2208415 - 02/07/09 08:14 PM

A sham and a lie? Okay, whatever.

As for processing the ONS -- I've done that for 20 years. IN retrospect, the fact that it happened probably saved our marriage at this time. I have the humility to know that ANYONE, no matter how good a person they are inside, ANYONE can make a devastating mistake. Without this knowledge, I might have walked. But I knew better, and I've been working to save things. The fact that she knows I made that same mistake might keep her from hating herself. We can, and we will, learn from this and move on and create a better marriage. We know that we're both capable of mistakes and will be on guard to keep anything like this from happening again.

Now, you ask how I can know this with any certainty. The answer: we had another talk last night. She had been cranky since coming home from work, and I've been hyperaware of things, something you all know all too well from personal experience. In my case, I've been seeing things that aren't there.

Her job has changed, from working in a back office to being on her feet all day long, and she hasn't had time to get new shoes yet. She quit smoking a week ago. And I started reading things into her bad mood. Surprise.

We finally had a serious discussion around midnight. She wanted to know what it would take. She said she'd come completely clean, told me everything, wasn't doing anything wrong, and it felt like it just wasn't good enough. She had made no effort to contact him, and had no desire to do so ever again.

I asked her about her feelings for the OM. She said she had no feelings at all for him anymore after finding out what the OMW had been told. She said she didn't even know who he was after all that, and that she'd learned her lesson.

(My aside here. What OM is, very clearly, is a sociopath. He could give a damn about anyone else. And when sunlight hits fog, it clears. That's what's happened here. She's no dummy. This was her own 2 x 4 upside the head. To quote "Tommy Boy", that's gonna leave a mark.)

She added that there was now way OMW didn't know about any of his outside activities all these years, and that OMW lied to me about that part of it. The more I think about it, she's probably right. Why should the OMW tell me, a total stranger, anything? (MikeC2 found out about how much an a ally the other BS would be.) She thinks there's some strange dynamic in that household and we need to stay as far away from it as possible. No argument there.

She said when she thinks about him, she's going over what he'd told her, and marveling at how she missed all the clues about the real situation. I didn't tell her it was because she didn't want to know. She'll figure that out on her own, if she already hasn't, and my saying it would sound like rubbing it in.

Bottom line, she's been doing what she needs to do, and I've been leaning on her anyway. When you start getting what you want and need, it's time to start rewarding that behavior. The carrot never works if you keep beating 'em with the stick regardless.

I think recovery has begun, and it's going to be a long road. But at least this time it looks like it's for real. From here, a lot of this will be up to me, not her.

So sorry, AHOC, your posts are so unnecessarily long winded that one has to read a novel just to get to the punch line. Which is why I ASKED you about that comment. So when you say things like:


And then several chapters later, say you DID tell her after D-Day, it is hard to keep straight. Which is WHY I ASKED. If you want to help folks better understand you, you might want to keep it CONCISE, SHORT and to the point. And if you want to be understood you might want to lose the rudeness when folks ask you questions for clarification. I promise you will get lots more help that way.

This experience has shown me that I am probably not the right person to help here. Good luck and take care.

Mel,

I'm sorry if I offended you. I understand that people are here because they've BTDT and are trying to help others, or are going through it themselves.

But remember, actions come in context and I want to make sure that what I'm saying is clearly understood. Making suggestions and giving advice off of incomplete information means that what is said may not fit the situation.

I don't want to waste anyone's time. I should have written about my personal backstory a long time ago, and I apologize for that. Keep in mind where my head has been for the past three months. Hopefully there's been an audible pop as I've pulled it out of there.

We've all gotten a little snarky from time to time. Sorry from my end. You know from personal experience how tough this has been to accept and deal with.

Thanks for all the help and advice you've given me during these trials. And that goes for the rest of ya, too!

Mel,

One other note. Yes, I am long winded. Sorry about that. That's one of the things that's driven my wife up the wall over the years. I have plenty of bruises on my shin from giving the "shut up!" kick with the side of her foot.

And it's worse when I've had a few. I supress about two-thirds of my vocabulary, and about six beers in I start sounding like William F. Buckley and people's eyes start crossing. Yikes.

My problem is having a touch of Asperger's. I'm so used to people not getting what I'm driving at that I go to great lengths to make sure I've communicated my thoughts properly. Yikes, again.

I'm better at it than I used to be, though. Scary thought, when you think about how I used to be.

AHOC, keep in mind that I didn't give you advice; I ASKED for clarification on this point. Please consider what I said about keeping it more concise and to the point if you want folks to get a more accurate reading of your situation. I hope that helps. Good luck.

Mel,

I owe you an apology on that.

AHOC, keep in mind that I didn't give you advice; I ASKED for clarification on this point.

I misread it as you being aghast, rather than asking for a clarification. As I've said, my head has been in the wrong place for a while now. Sorry about that. Told you I was an expert at jumping to conclusions. Proof right there.

Thanks, AHOC, no harm done.

Yes I understand YOU HAVE but do you nderstand SHE HASN'T?

This is significantly impacting your situation right now even if you don't see it AOTC.

ahhhhh.....feel the love :-)

Why, thank you!

Mel,

I prefer to think of my posts as ..... thorough and complete.

I'm doing a bump, because it's been quite a while since I've posted in my thread (five weeks or so).

I'm going to do an update when I get a chance this weekend. It's been a remarkable six weeks, with some great stuff, some good stuff, some bad stuff, and a headshaker or two.

Overall, I think I've been way luckier than I deserve to be.....

And thanks to everyone who's replied to me since this whole mess began. I'm sure you'll have a 2x4 or two for me, hopefully along with an occasional attaboy.

(Mel, BK: Head to the lumber yard. Don't let me down!! )

P.S.: This is not to start a storm of replies, but I hope Mike's doing okay. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I'm worried about him right now....

I'm always good for a 2x4

I love a good read AOTC, just as much as watching the cinders fly.

I'm glad that some things have been 'remarkable'.

Take care.

Okay, Vittoria and the rest... settle back, pop open a cold one if you've a mind to, and enjoy another novel. (Sorry, Mel.)

First, the weather forecast is calling for decreasing cloudiness with occasional fog, patchy at times, thick at others, but clearing up a little faster than normal given the conditions.

First, the A is deader than Kelcey's nu.... er, a doornail. As far as Pond Scum is concerned, FWW is radioactive. And as far as she's concered, he's, well, pond scum. Being described to the OMW as an Alex Forrest/Glenn Close/Fatal Attraction in training could just about kill anything. We'll get back to that in a bit.

The day before Valentine's day, I took a day off, and we went to a local tattoo shop, where she had a small heart inked high on her left breast. She told me that was her VD gift to me -- something permanent to show her committment. Nice. Very nice.

And I sent her flowers on the 27th anniversary of the day we met. The folks at work were impressed, and I got a lot of thumbs up from the small group of her friends there that know what's going on. They've been a good support group to me, as well as to her.

We've also had a couple more detailed talks since then. The one she initiated went a whole lot better than the one I tried to start. What we wound up discussing dealt with FOO and issues she had while growing up.

She had it tough. Her father died when she was 10, and as one of four kids with a widowed mother who didn't get a whole lot of help from the extended family, it meant tough times including spells of government cheese, if you will. She was the good one, who spent time cleaning the house and doing all that kind of stuff. The place never was very clean, but without her it would have been a total disaster area and possible health department violation. (That explains her total anger at lack of DS from me and the boys. I don't mind a little bit of mess, but that brought back bad memories for her. I've fixed that the past four months and am doing my share to help. I feel bad about that, believe me.)

Now comes the tough part for her. She had only two relationships before I came along. When she was 15 she got a job at a restaurant and had to ride the bus to work. The bus driver was very friendly, and got friendlier all the time. She said she was so naive that she had no idea what was going on until it developed further into statutory rape. This POS was in his early 30's, and she later found out she wasn't the only one, and it wasn't the first time he'd done this. This lasted until she was 18. FWIW, the bus driver got run over by the karma bus -- he died over a decade ago of a heart attack when he was just 53. RIP -- NOT!

The second POS was an abusive type. I've gathered that he was verbally abusive, possibly physically abusive, though I'm not sure about that. He treated her like crap, but she was finally able to get away from him. That explains why her mom greeted me like a savior when she took me home for the first time.

So, no surprise, she's had self-image issues all her life. Taking that into account, I fully believe her when she said she had no idea Pond Scum was married. If she'd known, he wouldn't have gotten close to her in the first place. It's possible someone else would have instead, but who knows?

That night she also told me there WAS a sexual element to it (yeah, shock). But this element practically breaks my heart. I'd had SF performance issues for a while, first caused by weight, then by apnea that contributed to blood pressure issues. The meds made it worse. Viagra/Cialis made the SF problems worse, because suddenly it was the Washington Monument, and it took forever and it physically hurt her.

She figured my problems were because she'd gained weight from the kids and I no longer found her attractive and that she was lousy in bed anyway, like that one boyfriend said. Total crap, but she believed it.

Okay, so along comes Pond Scum, a rugged-looking former co-worker who's physically imposing at 6'3", eight years younger than me and showing an interest. She bought in and things started. And then HE had a few problems. Watching him go pfffft a few times (which I found amusing, I have to say and hate to admit, the POS fraud) just confirmed her self-image.

After she told me this, she turned her head and muttered something I wasn't meant to hear -- "I risked everything for that. I'm so stupid."

After that, I proved to her that I find her very attractive, and she really is hot in the sack.

Fast forward to a couple of nights ago. We started discussing Pond Scum again when I was home on dinner break, and she corrected part of my timeline. The last time I talked to him was after the A started. In fact, it was right after she'd had surgery. I was home to help take care of her, and who wanders up with some DVD's that she can watch while stuck at home?

This POS hung out and we shot the breeze for about an hour, while he talked about his divorce again and how hard it was on his kids, etc. I never even wondered why he would stop by in the middle of the day on a weekday. Never even crossed my mind to question it. I asked her what she was thinking while Pond Scum was here and talking amicably to me. "This is awkward."

I actually laughed when I thought about it. I mean, the sheer effrontery of it, the gall, the cojones to not only stop by, but to talk to me for over an hour with her sitting right there!

I had to head back to work, but I figured her matter of fact response meant we could pick up the conversation when I got home for the night. Not so much. She objected, complaining all I wanted to talk about was the past. (Still some fog here.) She finally exploded, "You want to know what I'm feeling right now??"

She said she felt stupid for buying into his b.s., and fat and ugly, and how could anyone find her attractive? She also vented about how she hadn't tried to contact him, and that she was doing everything she was supposed to do. She had her best fried to babysit her when I wasn't around, calling it a prison, but also adding she knew why she was in that prison. That was enough for one night.

I've decided that there are still questions that I want answered, but I'm going to let her run the schedule to some degree. She really IS working at this, and I don't want to push, since there's been a lot of progress. We're hanging out together all the time, and quite frankly we're having more fun than we've had in a long time, maybe since we first started dating back when the earth was cooling.

She's the one that made the s**t-sandwiches we both are eating right now. I'm about a third of the way through mine. I figure she's 20-25% through hers. If I try to jam it down her throat, it won't get digested properly. I have to leave her some dignity in this process.

I married a feisty little redhead (Mel, if we put you about 9 on the feisty scale, she's an 8.) and I want HER back when we get through to the other side, not some poor thing crouched in a fetal position or scourging herself with whips. We may be lapsed Catholics, but the concept of penance is well understood by both of us.

It's gonna take more that ten Hail Mary's and a dozen Our Fathers to complete the penance, but we WILL get it done.

I just have to be patient. I can do this. (Who was it said that again, Vittoria? )

And so, an end to War and Peace, Part 1.

oh Lordie, Lordie, that stinker wrote a novel!! And there is childhood stuff in it too!! Well, I guess I will have to do my workout and leave the reading to others.


Feisty?? A poster once told me I needed "ASSERTIVENESS TRAINING!" So I have no idea what you mean!

Mel