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Around November, my wife found another man and began to date him. They became sexual and at that time, my wife called me to have the divorce discussion. Since I had no idea what was going on and I still had the "don't care" attitude, I pleasantly said "OK" and for some reason, figured things would go on as usual. I pressured her and we had sex that very night. (twisted, eh?)

How do you have a divorce discussion in a common law marriage?


I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey
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rb,

If you will shoot me an email at the address in my signature below, I think I can help with a few frustrations you are experiencing today.

It's all good. smile

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Originally Posted by MyRevelation
BH's who take strong, definitive ACTION have a much better chance of success, either by gaining the M that they desire, or moving on with life away from an unremorseful and unrepentent adulterer.

... Most of these folks are quite passive by nature,and just don't relate well to BH's who take strong definitive ACTIONS.

I don't agree with your last assertion.

Originally Posted by roybatty
but that's how it happened and I just reacted.

I believe that you are confusing action with reaction. In action, there is planning and forethought - generally a means toward a definitive end. In a reaction, there is no thought. It just happens, with unpredictable results.

IMO, Roy's reaction did not help his recovery in any way, shape or form. Who invites someone to a party, knowing that their presence is unwelcome? It would have been a very simple matter to uninvite this individual, cancel the party, etc. That would have been an action.

MyRevelation, in post after post you advise BH's to dump their wives if they do not immediately respond to ultimatums. I don't disagree that decisive actions on the part of a betrayed spouse are beneficial to recovery, but if I recall correctly even your wife attempted to break contact after discovery. (It used to be in your signature, but now it's gone).

And here you are, not divorced.

Just my .02

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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin
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Around November, my wife found another man and began to date him. They became sexual and at that time, my wife called me to have the divorce discussion. Since I had no idea what was going on and I still had the "don't care" attitude, I pleasantly said "OK" and for some reason, figured things would go on as usual. I pressured her and we had sex that very night. (twisted, eh?)

How do you have a divorce discussion in a common law marriage?

In Iowa, a legal divorce is required to end a Commen Law marriage. That is how Iowa attempts to reign in common law marriage under the jurisdiction of statute law. By statute, it would be illegal for either of us to remarry as long as a Common Law marriage could be proven.

Most states just elimate the option for Common Law marriage by statute.

I think it is debatable as to whether they can actually do this or not.


WH - 44
FWW - 50
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d-day - 12/4/2008
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Her d-day 4/22/2009
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HI

I haven't posted very much at all here, and I think that part of the reason for that is that I find that people tend to be very critical here, and hard on people, and alot of the time I feel unfairly so.
I think that people do the best they can in there own situations, and they have to decided what works for them, when advice is given we will see what we can take from it and what we can't.
If someone chose's not to follow that advice that is there choice and they have reasons for not doing that.

This should be a place of support, and guidance, not harsh words, and bullying.
Most of us have had enough of that, and we just want to talk to other who can relate and understand what we are trying to do.

Thanks for listening.

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I don't think the matter of common law marriage is the issue here, if rb and his wife consider themselves "married" then they are married.

And i also think the rb did the right thing. I think it would have caused his wife more anger at him if he made her cancel the party, it was her 50th birthday, that only happens once.

I also think that neither rb or his wife actually "invited" the OM, they probably both assumed since the A was out in the open he simply would not come. I would not have contacted him to tell him not to come, NC is NC after all.

And i am sure that his wife did not want the confrontation but totally understood why it happened and blamed the OM more than she blamed rb.

This is of course all just IMHO.

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Take a step back and examine the history of your married life to your current wife.

What I see is a woman who has been mostly unavailable as a wife. She has spent a good deal of time rationalizing and executing extra marital affairs. This most recent incident is the second time around for her and you. She seems to have little problem with exposing you to harm’s way. She seems to want a different kind of marriage than the one you envision. To give your marriage hope you both need to want and work for the same things, without that, there is little reason to be married. She apparently wants something different. Her friends, that you call toxic, are supporting her adultery. That makes them your enemy, toxic is the correct word. The worst part is that she exposed you to her sexual plaything by inviting him to the party. That was a cruel slap to you, but for reasons unknown you were a willing participant and did nothing to prevent it. However, it was your wife’s job to protect you from that hurtful confrontation.

It appears that your wife is self absorbed and does not currently have the mental makeup to participate in a marriage, at least not the kind of marriage that is typically discussed in these forums.

I will remind you of your own words in a previous post:

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I know this says much about my wife's character and maybe I didn't make a good choice when I picked her the first time.

What happened in her first marriage? How long did it last? Any kids?

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For that matter, I'll have to meet my wife's ENs so she won't need to look for anyone else.

You might find that while important, meeting your wife’s ENs will not be sufficient in restoring your marriage or more accurately, building a marriage. You need to “affair proof” the marriage and to do that it will take an earnest effort from BOTH of you. Although it appears from your descriptions that your wife is engaging in some marriage counseling, none of it will amount to much unless she comes to realize how and why she engaged in her affair. After that she would need to fully enlist your help to keep her honest and to build your confidence and trust. These elements are missing from your game plan so far as I can see. Her profound apologies and promises to be a better wife will fall far short and only have a short term effect. When the heat dies down she will again be open to the affections of another man.

Mr. G


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I was just thinking that it never ceases to amaze me how people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and beyond can still act like a friggin teenager with overactive genitals.

His wife is only a few years shy of being old enough to me MY MOTHER, and she's acting like she's 14.


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Originally Posted by penaltykill
MyRevelation, in post after post you advise BH's to dump their wives if they do not immediately respond to ultimatums. I don't disagree that decisive actions on the part of a betrayed spouse are beneficial to recovery, but if I recall correctly even your wife attempted to break contact after discovery. (It used to be in your signature, but now it's gone).

And here you are, not divorced.

Just my .02

You are correct ... D-Day + 2 FogFree sent a text, and D-Day + 5 she opened a secret hotmail account and sent an email seeking "closure". Neither were responded to by OM, likely because I had forced NC and he knew I had him by the "short & curlies". FogFree confessed to the text, and I found the secret email at about D-Day + 30.

These extra few weeks gave her the opportunity to show where her head really was ... if either of these attempts at contact had of been discovered immediately or if they received a response, then any recovery would have come after some period of "seperation".

Personally, I don't see any inconsistencies. All instances were dealt with IMMEDIATELY upon discovery and the results have been positive, although not without a few pot holes in the road along the way, especially early on.

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Placing yourself and your WW in this "awkward" predicament was a little thoughtless on all parties involved. Plain and simple--should have never happened. You were looking for trouble. It accomplished nothing.

Seems like you're a little combative to everyone not standing up and cheering for you in being a "manly man"!!! It only rewarded your ego and caused undue stress. I guess the idea of NO CONTACT just hasn't sunk in yet...

And, this is neither here nor there but if common law marriage means you're more married than a real married couple, then what difference did it make for you to be common law married to begin with? Just curious...

But, the bottom line is it was silly and a little inconsiderate of you of all parties for you to have allowed this to happen.

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Originally Posted by Krazy71
His wife is only a few years shy of being old enough to me MY MOTHER, and she's acting like she's 14.

I don't see that at all. How do you figure it?

This is what I see. They had been married less than 4 years, and of that time spent 2.5 years living apart. By roy's choice and by his admission, they had little to do with each other beyond an occasional date.

What was she supposed to think about their marriage?

As I see it, she assumed the marriage would never get any closer. After a year and a half, of steadily decreasing contact, that is a reasonable assumption.

Her mistake, of course, was in dating before divorce. That was wrong of her. But, when faced with a choice - either a dating relationship with OM, or a real marriage with roy (which they had never really had before) - she made her choice with no hesitation and no looking back.



Me: 41, INFP
Her: 46, ESFJ
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B-G Twins
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Originally Posted by Mr. Goodstuff
The worst part is that she exposed you to her sexual plaything by inviting him to the party. That was a cruel slap to you, but for reasons unknown you were a willing participant and did nothing to prevent it.

She didn't invite this man... my wife invited her family and friends, likewise the toxic friend had her own invite list. They didn't exchange notes on who was being invited. It's not like they are in daily contact with each other. More like monthly, if that.


WH - 44
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Roy, I'd caution you not to let this thread poison your opinion of your wife.

So many people are dumping all over her. As I see it, she made poor choices by dating OM. But she has made good choices since then in choosing the marriage.

I haven't seen anything you've posted since you got here that makes me think your wife is anything but sincere in her desire to work on the marriage.

Living apart for a year and a half - and having little to do with her during that time - is an open invitation for trouble. If your marriage is going to survive, you need to be living together. You know that now.

Now is the time to look forward and work on the marriage. Don't stew over past resentments and neglect the present. You have a chance to build a real future together, don't blow it.


Me: 41, INFP
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Originally Posted by CuthbertCalculus
Roy, I'd caution you not to let this thread poison your opinion of your wife.

No, that won't happen. The biggest obstacle is overcoming my own resentments... My wife responds to me when I treat her how she thinks a husband should treat her. She has to learn how to meet my ENs, but I'm willing to teach her. Hopefully getting past my angry outbursts, I can lead her by persuasion, not push her with a cattle prod. She meets some, but not quite proficient at everything yet. I'm trying to cultivate that environment in our marriage... inspite of the 50th birthday party.


WH - 44
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Her d-day 4/22/2009
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"She didn't invite this man... my wife invited her family and friends, likewise the toxic friend had her own invite list. They didn't exchange notes on who was being invited. It's not like they are in daily contact with each other. More like monthly, if that."

Ooooooooooh pleeeesa, what baloney!

Neither one these morally impaired upstanding woman thought about that would their be a problem with the OM being there at the same party as the BH?

Are these women that stupid, nieve, uncaring, blood lusting lokking for a fight, .....(my fingers are tired you all can complete the adjective list here)....?

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Originally Posted by TheRoad
Neither one these morally impaired upstanding woman thought about that would their be a problem with the OM being there at the same party as the BH?

I might have to get all alpha-male on you if you keep insulting my wife...


WH - 44
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Her d-day 4/22/2009
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Originally Posted by Mr. Goodstuff
Take a step back and examine the history of your married life to your current wife.

What I see is a woman who has been mostly unavailable as a wife. She has spent a good deal of time rationalizing and executing extra marital affairs. This most recent incident is the second time around for her and you.

My wife has not spent a good deal of time executing extra marital affairs. Just the 3 weeks of her affair being married to me, although we didn't live together. My wife married young, she was 18 or so. That marriage lasted 18 years and they had two kids. She divorced, had a long term relationship afterwards but not with a married men. After that, she said that she had a lot of first dates, but nothing materialized. For about 6 years she lived alone raising her two sons before I came along. So she does have a strong independent streak.

After she was with me, and ultimately after our separation, she felt like she needed someone in her life. So she started dating again, albeit before finalizing a divorce with me. So yes, she technically cheated on me and had an affair. When I let her know that I really did want her and I was willing to work on the marriage, she willingly accepted me back in her life full time. That's basically the story.

As a side note... we are working through some of Harley's marterials... so yes, I hope to make the future marriage affair proof.


WH - 44
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d-day - 12/4/2008
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Her d-day 4/22/2009
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On Mike_C2s thread about his harassment charge, you wrote back on 2/4/08:

“I'll have an "opportunity" to possibly see the OM this weekend. For sure, I will get to see his brother. Not quite sure how I'm going to absorb that, but it will be interesting.

I got smacked down on this board for allowing my wife and I to attend a party where the OM could be present but it's going to happen this weekend.

In a way, this is sort of a test for my wife. I get to see how she reacts. I laid down the rules for this encounter, we'll see how she does. She knows what I expect.”


When Mike stated this was a “stunningly bad idea” you responded to him:

“Maybe, but she really didn't have any withdrawal from the beginning, so I don't think it's going to be a problem. I would say that her affair leaned more to the one night stand end of the spectrum, even though it was more than that.

Anyway, maybe I like the drama.”


SasSoSad (BW) and I (FWW) both also told you this was a horrible plan. But you had an agenda here, RB. Not one of protecting your wife and your recovery, but one to meet your own purposes. People have quit jobs and lost income to avoid contact with an affair partner. People have moved away to other towns and even other states to avoid contact. To have not attended a party seems like minimal consequence for your wife to have endured.

You had known of the affair since December. Not that time matters anyway, but you keep arguing how this party had been planned for over a year. So with 2 months between D-day and the party, there was plenty of time to cancel the party, to change the plans and have a different party focused squarely on your wife, or to let your WW know that if the OM appeared the both of you would be leaving immediately. (This last option would have given you the face you apparently wanted to put to the OM's name while still protecting your WW.) You even admit that your WW and this GF have been distancing themselves from each other so why such critical importance for them to be in the same place to celebrate a birthday?

There was plenty of time to make a variety of other arrangements. You were the one who didn’t want to. Your WW didn’t argue with you because she either a.) wanted to see the OM too, for whatever reasons or b.) she didn’t want to LB on your apparent need to face the OM so she was willing to suck it up for your sake. Having the OS, WS, and BS, in the same room where alcohol is being served sounds like an awful concoction.

What’s done is done. Going forward, if you want to work toward having a meaningful marriage, please respect your own recovery as well as your WW’s and do what’s best to recover your relationship as H & W. Please do not provoke “drama” no matter how much you may like it.

Good luck to you, RB. I wish you and your W well.

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Originally Posted by Looking4
On Mike_C2s thread about his harassment charge, you wrote back on 2/4/08:

“I'll have an "opportunity" to possibly see the OM this weekend. For sure, I will get to see his brother. Not quite sure how I'm going to absorb that, but it will be interesting.

I got smacked down on this board for allowing my wife and I to attend a party where the OM could be present but it's going to happen this weekend.

In a way, this is sort of a test for my wife. I get to see how she reacts. I laid down the rules for this encounter, we'll see how she does. She knows what I expect.”


When Mike stated this was a “stunningly bad idea” you responded to him:

“Maybe, but she really didn't have any withdrawal from the beginning, so I don't think it's going to be a problem. I would say that her affair leaned more to the one night stand end of the spectrum, even though it was more than that.

Anyway, maybe I like the drama.”


SasSoSad (BW) and I (FWW) both also told you this was a horrible plan. But you had an agenda here, RB. Not one of protecting your wife and your recovery, but one to meet your own purposes. People have quit jobs and lost income to avoid contact with an affair partner. People have moved away to other towns and even other states to avoid contact. To have not attended a party seems like minimal consequence for your wife to have endured.

You had known of the affair since December. Not that time matters anyway, but you keep arguing how this party had been planned for over a year. So with 2 months between D-day and the party, there was plenty of time to cancel the party, to change the plans and have a different party focused squarely on your wife, or to let your WW know that if the OM appeared the both of you would be leaving immediately. You even admit that your WW and this friend have been distancing themselves from each other so why such critical importance for them to be in the same place to celebrate a birthday?

There was plenty of time to make a variety of other arrangements. You were the one who didn’t want to. Your WW didn’t argue with you because she either a.) wanted to see the OM too, for whatever reasons or b.) she didn’t want to LB on your apparent need to face the OM so she was willing to suck it up for your sake. Having the OS, WS, and BS, in the same room where alcohol is being served sounds like an awful concoction.

What’s done is done. Going forward, if you want to work toward having a meaningful marriage, please respect your own recovery as well as your WW’s and do what’s best to recover your relationship as H & W. Please do not provoke “drama” no matter how much you may like it.

Good luck to you, RB. I wish you and your W well.

I don't think that I ever said I didn't have an agenda. I really wanted to see who this guy was. My wife and I didn't really know if he would show or not, but she saw this as an opportunity to show everyone that we were together. I don't think you can necesarily take that as having ulterior motives. I think she is sincere. There didn't seem to be any harm with that and quite frankly, there wasn't.

Maybe, since I had to do this... it could have been handled differently. My previous comments reflect my aprehension of the whole ordeal before it happened. I'll do whatever I can to avoid such a scenario in the future. That was enough.

I really don't regret going though. Yes, there was some alpha-male aspect to it, but really, what does it matter? It's over.


WH - 44
FWW - 50
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d-day - 12/4/2008
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Her d-day 4/22/2009
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My apologies for the confusion at my end. I thought that you separated due to infidelity and then a second incident occurred after that.

I wish you and your wife the best. I’ll continue to read of your adventures and if I see an area where I might be of service then I’ll respond, that is if you don’t mind.

Mr. G


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows," Bob Dylan
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