Coho, where you live--wow--do I miss living there. We never ran out of things to do! I know you and Zen are different people and I've got the added issue of my H hating everything and everyone where we live now, so going in to poke around the city is met with resistance. But if we lived back in the PNW, we'd start negotiating from a strong base instead of a weak one.

I'll take the class at Sur La Table with you. I miss that store and the entire market area!

he would love that. deer flies love me.

we've done hiking and camping and he does love those things, and I keep doing them because he loves them but I do not. I'm the one eaten alive by mosquitoes and deer/horse flies. I'm the one snagging the tree behind me while fly fishing and freezing my butt off - all the marmot and rei gear in the world doesn't make me welt less. I will still do it because he likes it. I'm more than capable of setting up tents, starting the fire, packing in and out. I just don't get the same thrill.

I'm trying to think of mutually satisfying options. the compromise options are a given. it would be nice, though, do you think, to have something new going forward with a new marriage? no triggers, no baggage, something fresh? hmmm.

I've taken a SLT class and it's a blast. I think he'd like it too - and they have romantic couples nights....Uwajimaya also has cooking classes. that would be a blast. did you ever go to one of those while in the NW? Can't wait for farmers markets to open back up. the hillsdale one goes year-round, but it's still darn cold.

I want to make tamales this week - that will be good to do together as a family....I need to prep the masa today. one benefit of being laid off! tamales! it's easy to get fat in the PNW - any food you can imagine you can get.

he likes to bike....I wouldn't mind biking along waterfront. that would be an investment though. he already has a nice cannondale. doesn't thrill me, but I'd do it.

I don't know. I'm trying to get over the whole "he's such a pain in the [censored] to do anything with" feeling - because he's not, it's just I'm an a-hole and get frustrated with him. I'm staring at this website I'm supposed to build and I've put it off because I find him so hard to work with that I just want to throw up my hands and tell him to design it himself and I'll do the coding instead of trying to do any of the design myself. so, how do I re-look at everything and try, try again? I've got this page open on one monitor and that website on the other monitor, staring at me.

DD is playing harmonica and making it difficult to have any train of thought. ah, darling little monsters.

re-reading what I right - I sound like such a jerk. ZW is fine - it's me. if this were a business setting, I'd get along famously with whatever client it was and they would never even know if they were difficult or not. why can't I do that in my own marriage?? jeebus.

harmonica - can't spell.

How about considering something you can do while hiking with him? Something that may appeal a bit more to you? For example, Photography, Bird-watching, Etc.

You two are the Wookie and me.

If you two can get over the hump till the kids are in school, it'll help. BELIEVE me! We just got to where our older kids are old enough to watch the littles for small periods of time...and we have connected again in so many little ways.

Also if there are any churches that have MDO (mother's day out) or look around for drop in daycare. We just moved to a surburban area and I was awestruck that there are daycare centers out there that are open till ten on Fridays and Saturdays! If I'd known that when the kids were younger, we'd prolly never have lost sight of each other in the first place!

that is good. we've about killed the canon and I've been drooling over a new dlsr...

I'll give you my list that I hand out sometimes for brainstorming on things to do together. Before that, two thoughts. When H and I do gardening, he always finds things that need to be engineered, lol. Like this weekend, I wanted him to help me weed and mulch; he ended up taking out a whole bed of ferns, replanting them, clearing out the French drain, rerouting it, moving the sprinkler head, moving soil, washing off the rocks around the drain (!), and leveling it all out. I would have loved the help with the weeding, but instead I chose to be glad that he found something to do that fits HIS modus operandi and made him feel good and still contributed to the yard. Can you find win/wins like that?

And about the wilderness: how about a compromise with a bed and breakfast near a lake somewhere? You'd still have the comforts and he'd still have the outdoors.

My list:
Read a book together
Take turns picking out a movie to watch
Bring out the board games, at least once a week
Start a solitaire club with some neighbors or friends, play solitaire against each other one night a week or month
Start gardening together
Grow herbs/vegetables/fruits
Take walks
Start a sport together; take classes at a community college, such as racquetball or volleyball
Get bikes and start riding bikes together
Sign up for an MS 150 and train for the bike ride all year
Plan some day trips, start taking one every month
Try out one new restaurant every week, take turns choosing and surprising the other with it
Go to bookstore and get a book like “52 great invitations to sex” in which you both have 26 invitations for a special evening to invite the other one, and you set it up, give the other the invitation (included in book) and then put on the evening
Join an online gaming community together (but don’t get addicted!)
Buy a Wii or Guitar Hero and play together
Give each other foot rubs
Take massage class together and practice giving each other massages
Go back to school together
Get a pet, take it to obedience school and learn to train it (if applicable)
Join a neighborhood dinner club or other club
Volunteer together
Join a church or get more involved in your church
Take a cooking class together and take turns cooking for each other
Go to HGTV.com and pick out a project to do for your house together
Take free classes at Home Depot on how to fix something at your house
Start a business together
Organize a block party
Organize a family reunion
Start working with a financial planner or learn about stocks together
Take dancing lessons together; if you like it, start entering in competitions
Go online for your city and look up 'activities' and 'family' and maybe even 'free' if your city is big enough; subscribe to those websites and go there every month to look for upcoming activities you can all do together; you can find plays, music events, art things, sports things, picnics, etc.

Well, there you go . Consider grabbing yourself a copy of a "how-to" book on wildlife and/or landscape photography. Take a few notes that you can talk along with you on the hike to practice. Consider adding a GPS to your tool-kit, so you can tag each location you take pics. There's lots of options available here to turn your hikin to more than just tracking through the bush and attracting insects .

I do quite a bit of hiking, and I will admit that it appeals as much to my need to exercise my photographic skills (or lack thereof) as it does to my need to get out of the house .

I think after ZW is done with his current work project, it's time we delve in together and finish his website. that will be good for us both. I can get it off my plate, I've come up with solutions already to work on the design together - and it will get done. voila.

ZW is sick. he caught the plague from the little parasites, I mean, kiddos. He has a fever and he's snotty and feels like poo. I've doped him up pretty good. I hope he feels better soon. He's a very good sicky - not at all annoying or anything. he actually asked for things tonight which doesn't happen much when he's sick - I think he knows I'm impatient and doesn't usually ask for things when he's sick but he did. that's so sweet. I'm sure he'll snore tonight and I'll be on the couch - but for a good reason. I'll go check his temp again soon...sometimes he gets doozies, so I need to be sure. give him hugs - he has a deadline at work, and all this marriage stuff, a call tomorrow AM early with Harley which I'm sure he's forgotten about (I'll set the alarm) and now he's got the flu.

I'm doing ok. realizing a lot of the mean things I said during the A. aw, why use an initial - seems less real. the affair. it's so hard to look at what I said and did as rationalization at the time. I can still put myself in that place and feel it...but it seems less and less real all of the time. does that make sense?

Hi, Coho.

I'm sorry you're here, but glad you are, as you'll get no better information on how to try to heal your husband and heal your M than from the people here on MB. You have the cream of the crop helping you. Really take in what JustLearning, Mark1952, Lildoggie, DNU1, and others are saying. I've been on here for a few months now coming here like you, as the betrayer. I'm still in early recovery, but I know I wouldn't be as far along as I am without the honesty of the folks here on MB.

I've read your entire thread and just a couple of things, if I may...

A couple of pages back you wrote:


Please take what JustLearning said to heart, because my reaction was the same: "When you are down, do you know where to turn? You simply turn to your H." You are going to have to suck up a lot of things, but don't suck up your need for your H.

It sounds like you and me are of similar ilk. Independent, not wanting to impose on others, doing things yourself, thinking you can handle anything... Of the many nuggets of great advice I've received here, one of the best was like a lightbulb for me, and that is that I need to need my H. I need to help my H understand that I NEED him. Not just tell him, but let him know it's true. Yes, I want him, but I need to show him that I need him. And that has been one of the hardest things for me to do -- to let down my walls and my can-do attitude and let him help me. ...Help me with things as simple as crafting a cover letter to the bigger things like holding me as I'm doubled-over in pain and grief.

I gather you live in the PNW as I do. Have you ever been crabbing? My H loves it. I, on the otherhand, could take or leave it. I love fresh crab, but could do without sitting in a 15' boat on the choppy Sound. I understand trying to find RC that works for both of you. You've already had some fantastic ideas offered. Some low-cost to free ideas around Western Washington that you can do with or without children include:
Walking on a ferry, taking a ride to the other side, and getting ice cream or having a hot chocolate. Kingston has great shops and Bremerton works too.
If you're into watching sports of any kind, the UW has great games from baseball to volleyball and tickets are much cheaper than the pros.
Bike ride/walk/run/rollerblade the Interurban trail or the Burke-Gilman trail as they both go for dozens of miles. The waterfront, as you mentioned is great too.
Take in the tulips next month in Skagit County.
Check out open houses on Mercer Island or one of the fancier communities just to see different neighborhoods. Your H and you can assume a different identity and have fun with it.
Check out one of the forts like Fort Casey where you can play awesome games of hide 'n seek.
Fly kites at the coast or one of the many great parks we have.
Go bowling.

Just some ideas. Another place to look for things to do is here on MB on the main forums menu. There is a section titled "IDEAS" and under it are boards for Family Fun, Recreation, and more.

I'm going to follow along, Coho, and send my best for you and ZW.

To quote a fellow MBer who has helped me much, you can do this.

Take care.

-L4

Have you taken the Recreational Activity Questionairre yet? This is a fun way to figure out new things to do. I have taken dance lessons with my husband and it can be really frustrating. Careful with that one. We enjoy dancing together once we learn the moves but we got very testy during the learning period. Also, check out YMCA's in your area. They are much cheaper than the big franchised dance places. We have done both and the YMCA's are much more affordable.

[quote= it's just I'm an a-hole and get frustrated with him. [/quote]

Okay, stop and listen to this: My husband says this same phrase to justify all manner of bad behavior. Take this phrase out of your vocabulary. You are not allowed to be an [censored] anymore. It is a choice, not a valid excuse to cover bad behavior.

yeah, you're right. ok.

Coho,

When ZW is feeling better, I would strongly suggest that you two revist needs again, but this time talk about both of your sets of needs. Here is why. You mentioned recreation time together. For this to be a good time for both of you, your needs must be considered. It is possible that you can come up with activities or combined activities that would suit both of you.

You say you like photography if I recall correctly, he likes hiking. Perhaps you two need to hike to places that afford great scenery. You don't like the bugs and "no see'ems". Go to higher altitude or go to places in the Southwest, NM, AZ, even CA in the mountains.

My point...be creative. We have a friend who loves backpacking and W hates the out doors or anything physical. He takes one or two trips a year backpacking she stays home visits family and enjoys that. They both enjoy movies, eating out, etc. So they share that. He likes woodworking and just building things. They volunteer at the school where the children go. She gets involved in fund raising and such, he gets involved in building things for "senior night" and stuff. Thus they are working on different things, but at the same place and have things to share when they talk.

Neither or you are really going to be happy with independent behavior unless it is POJA'd and it is a win-win for the both of you. My guess is neither one of you will be happy if you didn't have one another in your lives. It is time you admitted that and started any discussions with the foremost topic of the "mission" statement being "I want YOU in my life."

That is the tone for any negotiations of RC time, or really any other topic. It starts with "I want YOU in my life." You will be surprised how easy it is to start to find win-win if the main goal of the negotiation is "I want you in my life."

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

I have been there. Love it . Love the Saturday market. Love everything PNW. Have lived in 3 different major locations in the PNW and loved them all. Almost 18 years of my life spent there and I'd go back in a NY minute if I didn't have highschoolers.

Anyway, I have a similar issue w/ him. He is so negative about where we're living now that anything I can think of to do--family oriented or just us--usually turns into a running monologue about what [censored] the people are here, the crowds, the national parks, etc. just not being as nice. It's exhausting and probably had a lot to do with my just giving up on scheduling recreation time. But I've resolved to try to go back to that table and just start coming up with and scheduling things to do.

Absolutley. RC is Flciks #1. It would be his #2.3.4.5.6. if it was allowed
Its MY #6 so thats a problem right away

It was a ctually something i read elsewhere that helped me with RC...
"The essential ingrediants in quality activities together are:
1. at least one person is willing to do it
2. the other is wiling to do it
3. both know why you are doing it....to expres love by being together"

I found that I personally had to get out of a rut were I just thought RC was a bother to organise and pull off.
It is still difficult to organise and pull off for me with my job but we make an effort and I do enjoy it. Mostly I enjoy knowing I am making him happy. He often says to me during RC "I dont know why, but you doing this makes me love you"

We also found a few thigns we could both enjoy. I find fishing boring, but I like sunbathing and reading. We can do both on a boat.
I also decided that now I dont have much fear anymore, I would try a few watersports and I actually really enjoy those. In the last 12 months I have learnt to SCUBA, wakeboard, and water ski.

The other things we are doing is bushwalks, tiki-tour car drives just exploring, a helicopter ride, I bought a motorbike, go out to the lake alot, eat out for lunch once a week, go to the store together (appearently this is RC to Flick) I sit outside and talk to him when he's fixing a mechanical brokendown thing (usually my ATV), I am trying to watch TV one night a wek with him (I hate the telly), I sit in on a HAM net once a week.... I just make sure I do 3-4 things with him a week and he tells me that is good for him.

We are considering taking a dance class, and joining an archery club.

I really like Flick's new thread. I hope he writes more.

I should go find his old one.

I have to schedule my next dr. harley session - where we go to step 2 and he tells me I tell every detail asked about the affair.

what are the experiences out there with step 2? I've been mostly reading on here lately and not posting much. I feel like I'm kind of in a spot where I need to shut up and learn. I was reading in one of them how the WH decided to just reclaim something that was a trigger - the WH decided it wasn't ok that it was ruined and made a point to make it newly theirs (happened to be V-Day which is ZW's birthday and frankly is the only reason why I've ever in my life wanted to celebrate V-day anyway). Anyway. so, that's what I've been doing - and job hunting aka stressing the F*#@ out. I've never been dead in the water for 2 weeks without even an interview. oh, and I adore the alan's house thread.

I bribed the little ones to take a nap with promises of afternoon cookie baking. I may regret that decision. :crosseyedcrazy: