My A was 18 monthsish, dday was oficially 1st Jan 09, NC a few weeks later. Sometimes I am slightly foggy but I never want OM. I am determined to work on my marriage - I'm not looking for excuses to give it up, I'm looking for hope that we can make it work.I played the abused wife card during the A. I'm not now. I want help for my H and M I know that my A was down to my poor boundaries and I was a cake eater.


You can be harsh, question me and question me - I need to make sure for myself and keep check on my own progress.

SC - I told h of just about every meeting - I left a lot of text messages on the phone for him to see, I talked about OM and asked through out whether he minded thought we were too close. I confessed 2x that I thought I was getting too friendly. Although bothered he didn't ask me to stop just ease off a bit- which I did. If only wish we'd found MB before.

ST

I sense a bit of drowning here, and I worry about you.

You've described the last few days as as turning point, heading towards an "up" cycle, and yet you also write like this. How "up" is "up", really, if this goes on?

st, you cannot live like this.

Could you do something for me? Could you write a list of the things that people here have suggested you do (like get a GP appointment and really deal with the depression and abuse during the consultation) and tick them off when you have done them? Some of them involve reading books, for example. How about making a deadline by which to order them, or look for them in the library?

I imagine your OU enrolment gives you rights to use academic libraries near you? This might be useful in reading about the condition.

I'd like to say something else about the marriage covenant:

I too have made a non-religious covenant. I have now lived with my H's decision to rewrite the terms of our agreement and decide that having sex with someone else was allowed, since he gave himself justification is his own mind, for whatever reason. (His reasons basically come down to "because I could; I had the perfect opportunity because it was nearly undetectable; she instigated it; she is beautiful.) No reasons would be acceptable to me of course because he did not seek my agreement and give me the same rights that he took for himself - not that I would have given my agreement, or taken the rights!

The point is that I could give myself justification for acting as if my covenant is over; what better demonstration of its ending could there be than his lying with another woman, and telling her he loved her and that he did not love me? And I could give myself the right to behave as I please. I could say that what was fair for him is fair for me. I think that a lot of people I know would support me.

I don't think my children ever would, though.

I know affair behaviour to be wrong, so I keep my boundaries cast iron, consciously so now that I feel so vulnerable and have a sense of entitlement. I take no lifts in cars with male colleagues. I do not go for coffee, much less lunch, with them. I do not talk about my marriage with any man. I do not go to bars without my H. I've never kept in touch with old boyfriends but if one approached me now via the internet, I would apply MB rules to the situation (i.e. run - fast). I've probably got the biggest sense of resentment about my H's affair of anyone you're likely to meet, and because I know that makes me vulnerable, I apply boundaries at all times.

I couldn't face my children if I did to them what my H's OW did to hers, and let them find out that Mum slept with someone who wasn't Dad because she was miserable and badly treated (not that OW was badly treated - but she would probably say she was). I won't to do to a married woman what OW did to me, so I apply boundaries even when I don't feel like it, and I love the feeling of dignity and self-respect that doing so brings me. I know that adultery won't make me happy.

Let' talk about running sometime. I did 4.5 miles yesterday at a shocking 5.5 mph (I have a GPS watch that gives me all those details) and I'm out again tomorrow. I'm sure a stripling like you does better than that!

I'll make that list SC and get on with it. We ordered a book on anger management for men last week, looks good - maybe we can get on and use it while sorting everything else

I went for that run and feel a million times better. I came back to a H who had read the days posts and now seems with me again - looking forward to a nice day out tomorrow. Let's hope it is. Funny - he won't let me talk but he will read on here.

First job in the morning to make that docs appt. and the one to fix the windscreen.

ST

Hooray!!! A good day, all day. Still the evening to go but I think this might now be the up.

Have made a docs appointment - couldn't get one witht the doc i want til the 24th, but it's worth waiting to see her as she has some history. H is keen for meds - thinks it will truly help him.

Thanks all for your support.

ST

How are things going, ST?

I think that the doctor's appointment was today. How did it go?

Please don't disappear, st. I'm hoping for your marital recovery.

I'm not disappearing.

I am wondering why I'm trying though.

We had a good weekend away with friends - no nastiness and certainly lots of friendliness but no real closeness - we didn't feel connected.

I was working tues morning (we came back mon night), so H did the unpacking with DS as childminder has sick child. I came home form work at lunchtime (DS now at preschool), we went grocery shopping which was fine and then came back and he had a minor fit that I hadn't put my plate away after lunch and was instead checking email.

I rode out the storm for 10 mins and then he was going to collect kids. I walked into town for the docs appt. I came back with a spring in my step - the doc seemed to think that BP was mre than plausible and asked to see H so that she could refer him to psych team.

I walked throught the door - the 3 of them looked very solemn, DS saw me and burst into tears, closely followed by DD.

DS wailed "daddy shouted at me". So I asked the kids what they had done - they had been pushing their food around the table, let them know that that wasn't a good thing to do and then tried to reassure them and comfort them. DS can occasionally make a fuss over nothing but really did seem distraught and DD has an exceptionally stiff upper lip. I can only assume they felt exceptionally hard done by and prob scared and total relief at seeing me.

H is now refusing to see the doc and doesn't want tablets or treatment ( I couldn't get an appointment with her for another month). WE haev barely spoken since and he is going out of his way to be awkward or has possibly hit a depression again. Falling asleep on the sofa - staring catatonically at me as I cook tea, hoover, mop floors etc

Through all this and all my efforts with him he just doesn't seem interested in me unless it's because I've done something wrong.

So I am feeling exceptionally exceptionally alone. I don't feel I can talk to anyone - I need our friends to support us as a couple and don't want them to lose their opinion of him and the family have so much to contend with at the mo anyway ( and not just mum's health). My friends have a lot on their plates at the mo too and I'm not a moaner but I feel like one

I really do think that if i could get for the house what I could have done 18months ago I would put an end to our misery. I can't function at all when he is around at the moment.


I did a very bad thing today aswell - I unblocked FOM on FB only to find that he's blocked me. Just wanted someone that knows me to talk to.

THing is I guess H will read this and he prob. won't care.

Why am I bothering? The light seems to have gone

Quoting L4 from RooGirls thread"I became so independent, that it turns out I didn't need my H for anything, or so I thought. And you know what? He sensed that. So he didn't offer me help and often wasn't there for me. We grew apart. I saw it as him not caring for me, he saw it as me not wanting or needing him in my life. These are not the makings for a healthy relationship.

With encouragement from MB folks, I've let my guard down. I've allowed my vulnerabilies to show to my H, and I've asked him for help. I've shown my appreciation for the little things and the big things so he knows I notice what he does for our family and me. I'm not being whimpy or defenseless for I am a grown woman and a mother, but I am now humble, completely honest, and much more open to him with my fears, desires, and needs. And his responses have been positive. I trust my H now like I haven't in years."

Am I in a position to show my vulnerability?? Can I do this??

Hi st,I’m glad you’re still here, although sorry to read your latest developments.There are a number of themes in your life, and I would not pretend to have expertise with most of them.

There is what seems increasingly like bp in your H. I read what Mrs W said about medication being crucial. Having read about how upset your children were the other day, I would urge you to insist that your H seeks treatment. It is seriously damaging for your children to live with a father that has these episodes. You are responsible for your children’s emotional wellbeing and physical safety. Your H suffers from diminished responsibility when he is affected like this, and you must taker action to stop his adverse behaviour from directly affecting them.

There is the threat of violence that seems to be associated with your H’s mental state. He seems to be refraining from violence quite well just now, but I would not rely on that continuing if he does not receive medical treatment.

There are the issues about spending time together. I read your “BH buy into MB?” thread for the first time today, and I can see that this is a big problem. You need to spend at least 15 hours per week together, alone, in activities that deposit units into each of your Love Banks.

All these issues affect how you feel about your marriage, and rightly so, but for now I want to have strong words with you about this:


st, I’ve live with an H who strung out contact with his OW for 21 months after 2 day, and I have read a lot here. I understand how hard it is to give up the high that contact with your AP affords. However, I am talking to you now as a BW in the hope that I can stop you from inflicting any more damage on someone whose marriage you have already disrupted.

St, please do not engage in this degrading affair again. Attempting contact with FOM was not just a means of talking to someone that knows you. Your sister knows you. You have friends that know you. You could have come here and talked about your urge to contact FOM. There were other avenues open to you if you wanted to talk about your marital worries. You tried to contact FOM because you wanted to get the feelings you were missing since the EA ended. This was an attempt to restart the affair. Please honest with yourself about that.

Please leave FOM alone unless and until you and he are both divorced, should it come to that. Please do not continue to wreck his wife’s life as you have done already. How do you think she would feel if had you made contact and she discovered that you and her husband were talking again? Do you think you should make decisions about how she lives her life? Your secretly talking to her H forces her to live in a condition that she hasn’t chosen; that of sharing her husband. You have no right to make choices about her life like this. If the affair resumes, she might well leave her H. Do you think you have the right to affect her marriage and future like that? You don’t, st.

I am writing to you from my experience as a BW. If a WS comes to MB, as opposed to TOW or other sites, they are offered the experiences of BSs from which they are invited to learn. Please learn from mine. I get very upset about the BW in the background because that is what I was. My marriage ended the day my H decided to abandon his commitment to me and our children and begin an affair. Two people took decisions about MY LIFE and did not make me party to them. I have had to start from scratch building a new marriage. That might be a good thing in the long run, as others here have found, but that should not have been anybody’s call but mine and my H’s. It should not have been his OW’s, and the BW in your situation should never have had her life interfered with by you.

There are serious problems that must be dealt with in your marriage, st, but please do not ruin the lives of a wife and children in your attempt to solve them. Your feelings might be desperate at times, but you do not have to act on them.

I don't know your story but how in the world is trying to contact OM going to help your M???

You are doing the same thing your H is doing...trying to solve things with unacceptable means.

There are plenty of other people you can talk to when you are feeling down...claiming OM is the only one is a bunch of BS and you know it.

I don't know, ST, and am uncomfortable giving advice about this since I am very unfamiliar with BP and the depression in my M is more my own, not my H's. I'll let Mrs. W, a psycologist, or someone else who has experience with a spouse who has other issues respond.

I understand the temptation to contact the FOM, especially when things are bad. You were with him for 18 months and have been at working on recovering your M for not even three months. It takes a lot of time to try to understand and heal from what you did. My A lasted a few months, ending 9 months ago I'm still working at recovery.

I'm dropping in to encourage you NOT to even test the FOM boundaries. If you try and he doesn't respond or you find he's blocked you like he did, you will get angry, depressed, and/or sad -- and how is that going to help you? And if he does respond, you're right back to where you were -- disrespecting and lying to your H, shaming yourself, hurting the BW, and harming your family.

If you must expend energy elsewhere when things are going poorly with your H, direct it toward your children or a community event or a volunteer effort. I understand it's so hard because it is. You're looking for comfort and when you're hurting you're looking for somewhere -- anywhere -- to turn. You are desparate so you are remembering only the "good" part of being with FOM. The collaterall damage of that skewed "good" feeling is widespread and can be permanent. It is not good but instead horribly bad. You absolutely, positively, cannot have contact with the FOM while you are married. Please listen to SugarCane on this.

Good luck to you.

I am trying so hard to protect them. They adore him and he is wonderful with them most of the time. They are his life - he just wants it to be the 4 of us all the time.


He has said he isn't interested in working at it repeatedly he just wants everything to tick along, doesn't want to spend time the 2 of us, just the 4 of us. If he wanted to spend time with me he wouldn't have had children. ( This is what he is saying today). He just doesn't understand that there can't really be the 4 of us unless there is the 2 of us.



Coloured by me. You are right SC and today I regret it and am so relieved that I didn't even see the pic of him. I don't think I would have actually entered into proper 2 way communication, wanted to see how it felt to do it and get at H. Wrong I know, but it didn't happen and it wouldn't have helped in the long run at all.


If you don't mind SC, I like to think of you OMW. And I feel awfully awfully guilty and sick about causing you upset.



Thank you SC I really appreciate it

I do still want to sort this M out. Am I right to do that?

I did talk to my sis today and she spoke to H. I think it gave him something to think about. We're here to help him. Every time I've showed him my vulnerabilities today - he's thrown it back on me.

Mum found out today that she has to go down the full chemo route, although there is no spread. The cancer is triple non receptive- won't respond to hormone therapy. THe chemo will be a bit experimental from what she could work out because it is rare. H is really upset about this, i'm upset but at the moment I'm more upset about us and the kids.

Several tears on and a family hug, things are a lot less tense and calmer as we pull together again.

I offered take away and dvd earlier as a "come on let's calm down and do something nice togethter" but he refused. I'm hoping he might be up for it now.

I just want someone else to take responsibility for a bit


Thank you sugarCane
st

I know. Stupid. Deep hole. Thank you MF - it helps having people there to point it out

ST

Thanks for the understanding L4, it is a comfort that someone can see that I was/ am at times desperate . SCs post really made me feel differently. I know it's no good.

Tears and snot everywhere. Let's go and watch Monkey Life with the other 3. No more testing of boundaries or anything else.

Thanks for the encouragement.

st, I am not going to beat up on you anymore...Except, I think you should completely stay away from FB or myspace or any of those websites. One screw up on your part could set you both right back to d-day.

My wife's affair last about the same as yours....but she is not here....and last night it was pretty intense when I looked her in the eye and asked her if there was any kind of contact with OM. She said "No". Came as a TOTAL relief. Respect your husband's wishes and stay away from making any contact.

You are still in very early stages. (my wife admitted her affair back in Oct) and she is still going through terrible remorse. And the withdrawl seems to last forever. Probably will be the same in your case.

Are you doing anything to meet your husband's needs ? Is he still very upset/getting over the shock ? I am sure others have asked you this before...Have you asked your husband to read up on the articles here ?

Hi ST...

Well, my oh my, lots of issues going on here...

First, I wanted to address the OM issue...That relationship is TOXIC and it will remain that way FOR.EV.ER...IMO, it would remain that way even if your husband and his wife both died...What began as adultery could never be anything decent or good for either of you, so seriously, NO MATTER WHAT, no contact for LIFE is a MUST, okay?

Next issue...I am certainly no expert on Bipolar Disorder, my life experience with my father is all that I have, along with some reading...Of course, we do know that Dr. Harley would advise that that must be taken care of FIRST before any issues in the marriage can even be addressed...

Based on what I went through growing up I can tell you what I would do in your position: PLAN B: with the terms of your husband's return only after an appointment with a pyschiatrist [I would require confirmation from the psychiatrist - your husband could give permission to his doctor to share the information with you], IF he is diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, then a commitment to take medication [that you supervise him taking] and counseling...for life...Anything other than that, imo, would be enabling him to continue to put himself and your family through a living hell due to his illness...I take a hardline on this because of what I witnessed growing up...IMO, the KINDEST thing that you could do for your husband is to insist on treatment...he won't like it and things are likely to get much worse before they get better, but personally it would be the only way for me...

And during Plan B? YOU are still married and must continue to act like it...No OMs, period!

ST, if your husband does indeed have Bipolar Disorder you do no one any favors by just sticking it out and letting all of you get dragged through the muck and the mire of that illness...Iron clad boundaries are a MUST when dealing with this disorder...

What do you think?

Mrs. W

ST,
I've caught glimpses of your thread here and there. I really am sorry that life is so difficult for you at this time. Hang in there.

Take care.

Thanks for posting optin



In recent weeks it has been hard to get very near to H, I am doing everything I can form a distance but it isn't quite good enough and then all of a sudden it is and then it isn't.

The A doesn't seem to upset him - it obviously did while it was going on. He seems to have moved on - accpets it happened and that it is behind us. He never uses it against me. Occasionally suggests I go back to OM because he would be more able to support me emotionally.

It hurts him that as he sees it he isn't able to support me emotionally.

H calls this "Marriage Breakers" at the moment - doesn't like me using it and it is a LB.

Would really like to go through some of the stuff with him again ENQ and POJA and LB but not brave enough at the mo.

I know, I know... I have never never wanted a proper proper realtionship with OM and never will. I won't do it.

I had the exact same thought yesterday. I thinkit is a very valid and sensible suggestion, but I don't think I have the strength at the moment. I will read up on it some more. I just can't work out who would go where.


PArt of me hopes it is BP, then we know a bit more about we're up against and it sort of makes the calls easier. Both of us are also worried that it isn't and then we have to re-adjust all our thinking again.

Thanks MrsW

We did have the chinese last night and a bit of a chat. He just doesn't get that a marriage doesn't just happen and it isn't ok to just muddle through and that we need to be active in our M.

Another good day today - although H has been at work - we've had good chatty phone calls. He's just walked through the door. I apologised for being on here ( he is early home) and asked whether he minded if I had a few more mins. He's quite happy that I have a few mins to finish off while he has a shower - no resentful tone at all.

It's very confusing and a total rollercoaster what is fine one day is the end of the world the next.

I really think that if we could both really focus on the MB format we'd be fine but he just doesn't have the drive and determination or fight to do it - he just wants it to happen.

So when things are going ok between us it leads me back to one of my old threads... How do I get him to buy into MB?

I hate keep trying to guess what sort of mood the next day is going to be and what it might be that sends him through the roof.

Let's go with the flow again tonight