Woa, didnt say I still had the blinders on. Like I said keyloggers are in place, and I will take other steps. I am rethinking the not contacting OMW not because of posts but as I thought through this I do think it is necessary. I appreciate all of the advice and I appreciate the passion of everyone's position. As the roller coaster goes up and down so do I. But- I do know my wife, better than I thought after I replay conversations in my head from the last 3 months. I want to believe it stayed without sexual contact but..... I am sure there was cybersex and we will see about physical. Go ahead beat me up.

Sack the counsellor.

Hi BHFF! Welcome to Marriage Builders. If you are interested in saving your marriage, the path is very NARROW. In order to save your marriage, she must end all contact with the OM. "Supervised" contact will not suffice. Changing the name of her contact to "business" is really cute, but not effective in ending an affair. Any contact with her lover will keep her triggered. The only way she can withdraw from the OM is complete and total no contact.

Now, I know that alot of men, to my great SHOCK, live in abject TERROR of their wives and too scared to set protective boundaries following an affair. But if you have the courage to stand up to your wife - and most men do not - you might want to explain to her this is what it will take to recover the marriage.

Dr. Willard Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. Requirements for Recovery

The odds of a marriage recovering while the affairees remain in contact are the same as an alcoholic recovering who continues to drink, but changes the name of his drinks to "business drinks" and goes to the bar every day.

I am sorry for flaming you. My daughter got HPV from a scum bag who cheated on her. And it put her through hell waiting for test results. So forgive me if I got hot about it. I am glad you are rethinking letting the OMs wife know about the affair. Think about this. You are a fireman who has to stay at the station multiple nights a month. So you don't know if your wife has been having sex with the OM while you are at work. But his wife will know that her husband just happens to have poker night (no pun intended) the same night you're at work. Or that he was at a business dinner until midnight on another night that you are at work. Don't you see. Your wife does not want you talking to her because SHE IS YOUR GREATEST ALLY IN STOPPING THIS AFFAIR. She will help you piece the 1000 piece puzzle together. The puzzle that you only have 500 pieces of. She has the other 500 pieces.

One thing has happened. you have given your wife and the OM time to get their stories straight. But its not to late. You need to interview your spouses separately and then you compare note. Please understand that you are new to this. There are others on this board like Melody and My revelation that have years of (unwanted) experience. In this. You need to look at this like it is a war to defend your marriage. Your wife's affair is the enemy. You must expose the affair to the light. No matter how painful it is. If you love your wife and you want your marriage. And if you want to insure every way possible that it won't happen again. You have stop worrying about your wife's feelings and start worrying about what is right and what works.

No, I understand your passion and thank everyone for their opinions and stories. Like I said now I need evidence for OMW. I have replayed so many conversations that my wife and I have had since she first told me (and before) she wasn't happy and if I would have been listening all along (or able to hear) she told me several times. My wife is a terrible liar anyway. Now all of you can laugh at that but really she is. We had a miscarriage in Nov and thought that some of the distance between us after that was due to the trauma from that. Trying to decide to try again how we felt about losing our child and everything that goes along with those emotions. The last six months have been emotionally draining for everyone. Work has been shorthanded so we both have been working extra. I am used to compartmentalizing alot of emotions in the line of work I am in, putting them aside until the job is done. We both do. I think the compartments got full or maybe we forgot to open them up. Thanks again everyone I will continue to update and ask for advice.

No you don't. Your WW has admitted to the A. That should be all you need. Even if at first the OMW doesn't believe you, it will plant the required and necessary seed of doubt for get to keep a really close eye on her H. The truth will eventually come out.

Didn't your wife admit to the affair? If she has admitted to the affair then you have your evidence. There is no reason to delay calling her, BHHS.



Yes, all adulterers say this. It is classic fogtalk. Sure, she was not happy in the marriage or she would not have had an affair but the main problem in your marriage is the affair. Nothing can get fixed obviously until she ends her affair.


Like I said before, BH, if you want to save your marriage, the first thing that has to happen is that she ends all contact with her lover. Recovery is impossible until that happens.

I wish you the best.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

I appreciate the compliment, but please do not lump me with MyRevelation. He espouses a very stupid strategy of kicking out wayward wives, which conflicts with what Dr Harley would recommend and what I know to be effective. I would never recommend my own D-Day experience to anyone who wanted to save their marriage. My marriage is together today IN SPITE of my own actions.

So what I talk about here are Marriage Builders concepts and Dr. Harley's expertise. I only know how to sell soft drinks, that is my expertise.

I'll have a cream or root beer soda with a scoop of vanilla ice cream.

So an update-

So far no contact other than work. We are working on communication and talking about all that goes on. I know but we can drop the quit work for now. That may be a option in a little time but for now just hold on. But it is hard. How does a person deal with the suspicion and paranoia? I have never not trusted my WW and these are hard emotions to deal with.And I realize that they are mostly self protection but wow. I always said that if my wife cheated on me I would be gone, but that is easier said than done. How do other BS deal with these feelings?

There is nothing we can do to help you if there is still contact, BHFF. All of the good communicating in the world will not compensate for continued contact.

Good luck...

melody is right, you also will not out the man to his wife so that she can control him. You say there is no contact outside of work, but they can still have lunch. You say you never not been able to trust you wife. My friend, you are trusting her now. There connection remains. You have not confirmed a physical affair. Though with your schedule. The physical affair is assured. She could and still can have sex in your own home. Or go out on the nights when you work. I guess your mrs. dodged a bullet on this affair. This has been easy for her. All you have done is encourage her that she can keep you in the dark and you won't do anything to stop her. Very sad.

Leave her? You won't even make her stop talking to the OM. So they don't talk outside of work. I suppose they can't keep their relationship going in the 8 to 10 hours a day they spend together. She cuckolded you and you're hoping that her life isn't to disrupted. Trust me. Their affair continues. She has you handled and you won't tell the OMs wife. If they are still seeing each other 8 to 10 hours a day. They are still screwing each other, if not physically then mentally. good luck.

1) Eliminate everything that would cause suspicion, if you made a list, what would be on yours?

2) Do anything to end the A.

We all agree that these are horrible feelings, they will eat you up slowly, and you will become resentful and bitter.

Actually it's not self protection. If it were, there would be no limit to what you would do to protect yourself.

Many of us said the same thing. And we are all here sharing with you what we have learned, with what works and what does not.
We are here because we love our families. We vowed to protect them, even if it means being tough with them.

Did you contact OMW?

It is really sad when people think they can have contact and not continue the affair. We see the work excuse a lot. It doesn't matter. It won't stop until the contact ends. Period.

You can't deal with the suspicion and paranoia when the APs still work together. If sticking your head in the sand works for you, I suppose there is some negliable (sp?) amount of coping involved in that. For 8-10 hrs a day, you have no idea what sort of contact is going on. Dealing with these sorts of thoughts are hard enough when the APs don't work together. This is signing on for a meltdown.

I just read through your thread and please listen up! I was so fearful of calling the OW's H that I delayed and delayed. My WS had me snowed about not seeing her again or contacting her again blah blah blah. Yep he manipulated me so they could eat cake together! Also that it was just an EA only . . .(total lie). The emotions I went through. I was so unsure and wanted to believe him SO bad. I didn't know if she was married at first and then I found the information on whitepages.com . . . I still didn't do it and my family was furious! I still waited a few more weeks and sabbotaged my own marriage further . . . Finally, my brother called to the OW's H and the A fell apart. When the OW's H and I compared notes we discovered MUCH MUCH more. Then we became allies to save our families together. My story isn't over yet but that phase is. Thank God! I was just too fearful. PS - the first thing he said to me was . . ."why did you wait so long to call me"? What are you afraid of?

You get used to it and accept that you have signed on for this. This is a way of life you have chosen in order to avoid conflict. It is a hard life and there is no way to gloss that over. A couple of ways I can think of would be to start drinking alot or taking narcotics to drown out your feelings.

conflict avoidance is a very hard life... I could never do it.