Thanks Vittoria

it's nice to know you're there too

Hi st,

I really think that you should work out a plan for getting the various issues dealt with and start it and stick to it. What I have seen from reading your various threads is that suggestions have been made that you agree are good ones, but that you're nervous of following through.

You are absolutely right in your thinking that if H could buy in to MB your marriage would be transformed. There are many things going on in your marriage that Dr Harley writes about:

NC with FOm and extraordinary protections to make sure it as hard as possible for you to be in contact ever again. There is a problem with your sister's involvement in the band. While I don't think you can ask her to leave, you and H need to jointly agree (POJA) issues such as going to her concerts. My own view as a BS would be that nobody goes to any concerts and sis should not mention OM ever again. You need to give up using social networking sites, since they are a means of making casual contact with people, including FOM. There is nothing you need to do on Facebook that you cannot do by email. If your H does not trust you to limit your email use, give that up as well. What you do use should be open for his scrutiny, of course.

There is the issue of your playing in another band. Since you connected with FOM through this activity it might not be enough for marital recovery to just change bands to avoid him. You should examine carefully how your H feels; it must be a trigger for him, and he must worry about another affair starting. Dr Harley advises giving up recreational activities that take you away from your spouse, and recommends finding activities to do together. Surely you could still play at home, and perhaps set up a kids' orchestra at the school? (You seem to be a teacher). I think that participating in an activity that takes you away from H and home and requires hours of time is bad just now, so soon after the affair. All your focus should be on rebuilding the marriage.

There are other aspects of meeting each other's EN. You have mentioned a couple of times that H has been angry when you have not cleared up after food. While I don't think you should be running around frantically clearing up because you are frightened of him, if domestic support is one of his top ENs then you should try to meet it. I find that homemaking makes my H and kids calm and contented; home becomes a nice place for them to come back to, and mess is a non-issue. It also turns my focus into the home and away from activities that distract from my marriage. As I said before, you need to focus on the marriage especially now, post-affair.

You identify the problem of spending time alone together, which Dr Harley says is crucial.

So yes, many things need dealing with and could be dealt with by MB. However, your H's lack of interest might well be to do with his condition, and as you know, Dr Harley would say that depression must be dealt with first. So that brings us to what Mrs W said: you must make treatment happen, or remove yourself and children from H's environment.

It will have to come to Plan B soon if H will not help himself, but perhaps you could ask for family help in getting him to see how vital treatment is, first. I know things must be terrible just now for your family, coping with your mother's treatment, but you said that your sister spoke to him recently. Perhaps she could do this again? Does H have helpful parents or siblings? Could they help by talking to him? They, and you, need to tell him that he cannot be allowed to hurt (emotionally) the children that he adores, and that his relationship with them depends on his getting treatment. I think you said something like "they are his world"; well, if he is indifferent to his marriage just now (and I would understand why he would be following the EA), he might just be reached through the children.

I don't think that MB can be used properly yet until H's condition is dealt with, but that does not mean that nothing can be done.

You, st, can work on re-establishing your moral integrity. No more affair behaviour, and extraordinary protections against this, whether you stay married or eventually separate and divorce. Don't lower your personal standards ever again, and do not hurt other people by your selfish pursuits.

The depression must also be dealt with, urgently. Your H must either see a doctor and follow through to a proper diagnosis or leave the home. You cannot ask your children to deal with H's moods as you might feel able to, st, by riding them out.

What do you think? Are my suggestions do-able?

I agree. They'll all steer clear of concerts. I need to stop sis mentioning OM, I have asked her not to and then she says "I know I'm not s'posed to say this but..." and this is the point where I should put my hands over my ears and go LALALALALALALA. I WILL FROM NOW.

DH is really really not bothered about band. There is no opportunity during rehearsal for socialising and it finishes so late that everyone rushes home. Despite lift sharing opportunities with male members of the band I refuse and only share with females. I have now found MB, I am not going to start another A.

I will insist H has the password for my FB account (without me knowing) so that I can only go there when he is around. He doesn't want his own account but enjoys keeping up with our friends through FB - something that these days we do together anyway.



On the dish issue. I am extremely house proud and like to keep it all inorder. People do comment on how clean and tidy the house and actually take the mickey if something is out of place. My M and D are tidy people but they think I am obsessive. However, MIL definitely is. She had to get a new rug because she couldn't stand the tassles on her old one getting rumpled everytime we went to visit. Kept an afro comb to constantly comb them - just as one example. I do, I do, I do keep the house up.



I think the rest of your points will be covered in my next post.

Thank you for looking through all of this SugarCane and yes I think some of it is doable.

ST

Hooray!!!

I have my husband back in his own head again. He read through this thread the night before last. PArt of me expected him to get angry or defensive but he didn't. I asked whether he'd like to post anything in his defense ( use my login if he didn't want to create one) but he didn't.

He will go the the docs appt and I know that it could be tricky until we get sorted on the mental health front. But we might aswell get going because he could be even stevens for the next few months which will give us an opportunity to build more.

He said there is nothing to say. Nothing I have said is unfair, untrue or unreasonable. He does want to work on his mental health. He is horrified at how he behaves and comments that he knows he's there he just can't work out how to get out of it. He knows how awful he is being but just can't stop it.

We agreed that evening that last night we would sit down and discuss.

So this is the jist of our conversation. We made notes so that when we lose our way we can refer back.

We identified 7 areas between us and discussed them.

sex
H likes SF, ST likes SF, H and st like SF. ST to intiate more.

Marriage
Last night we agreed that Marriage is not passive and that it should be worked at 80% of the time. In order for M to work we need to want to make each other happy.

Need to be aware of LBs and ENs. I printed off the Q's and we are ready to go with them again. ( I did my LBs last night)

We agreed that we would spend some time regularly looking at the MB prog. I pointed out the home study course, he did gasp at the price but I did point out that that was a small price to pay.

Plans/priorities

I know Financial security is a slight issue. I am doing a degree. The original aim was to become a teacher. We are both now of the opinion that with the hours teachers work this is not a good idea. H wants me to hold on to the dream because it would make him proud if I did and it is something that I always wanted to do. ( Little bit gutted that I don't make him proud now). I had a career previously and he would like a professional wife. We agreed that this would prob. happen and that would be a long term goal for when the children and pretty much independant. I will continue with the degree.

We are both happy with the shift ararngement now and have worked out that we do actually get quite a bit of time together but we do need to make sure we plan something for those times together - what ever we do is together rather than me popping to tesco while he changes a tyre we do both things together. It is v unlikely that H will get another job in the current economic climate. Hoping that he will be able to do so with in 5 years because it is known to contribute to mental health issues ( we feel that being unemployed/ on a low wage would contribute more than shift working).

Children

Agreed that children need reassurance and love to stop whining as well as firm boundaires and not giving into whining.. I stressed to H that whining comes from dysfunctional us and that it is the way we behave that needs to change to stop whining. ( it was his thought that they caused his mood to be worse!!).

Healthy habits

No snacking after tea apart from fruit or cereal. Fix bike trailer so that we can go shopping on the bikes and schedule in exercsie dvd for the week at the beginning of the week.

Holiday

We have a long weekend booked with kids at end of sep
We willbook a weekend just for us
We will try to book a week with friends either at my cuz's place in Wales or at friends bro.s house in Cornwall

Discussed saving for big hol next year

SO there we have it...

It is just incomprehendable how different things can be from one week to the next.


I need to show my vulnerabilities to H (all part of O&H) because that makes him feel more worthwhile and helps with his fear that he is ub=nable to provide for me.

Was that slightly epic??

ST

st, bear in mind when I give advice that I've been quite bad at following MB methods myself (apart from affair-proofing my own behaviour, which I take pride in). I understand Dr Harley at an intellectual level. I am a great reader, and I think I'm good at quickly seeing the nub of a written essay or argument. However, I've been quite withdrawn from my H and marriage for a long time, although I'm coming round. I like homemaking, but I must say that since I found out that H had used my contentment at home after D Day 1 as the backdrop for his cake-eating, I have often said "stuff the housework" and gone for a pedicure.

I don't like telling women that it naturally falls to them to keep a spotless home, but I do understand what Dr Harley means about meeting our spouses ENs in the way that they need them to be met. It does pay off, I have found. Anyway, you seem to be doing well on domestic support, if that is indeed a primary EN for your H.

However, on the band, and Facebook, my understanding is that you need to demonstrate extraordinary care of your marriage and H. You have put your marriage at risk, and shown lack of care for your H. You must do what will help the marriage, and not only what H expresses unhappiness about.

As an example: I can't stop my H talking to OW when I really look at it, although it is hard for them to meet, since she lives in Belgium and her H knows about the affair. (Her H will dismember my H and have his job on a plate if he ever hears of contact again. Both my H and OW have changed jobs so that they do not have to travel.)

In my still somewhat withdrawn state, in my head I sometimes say "let them talk" (on the phone, at work, which I can't monitor) if they want to. I haven't given H my heart back and I WILL find out one day if contact has continued. Since I have not given him my heart back, I'm not frightened of this happening. I'll just leave him. To the devil with him if she's what he wants.

If my H cares about restoring intimacy between us he should not ever talk to OW again, and eventually, if he turns his focus entirely to me, intimacy will creep back into our marriage. However he could take my apparent indifference to what he does as not minding, as long as he does not sleep with her again. How wrong he'd be.

The poster 6 years later was saying something like this to you earlier in this thread. Your H's lack of concern might be a very bad sign, indicating his intention to stay only until the children are older.

Perhaps I'm being too cautious about Facebook and the band, but perhaps you could think about committing to your marriage by giving them up anyway.

I hope you'll get more opinions on this soon.

st, I look forward to coming back here later, but for now,

Hooray!

Hi SC

Asked DH to read over your posts and make a response- let me know how he feels based on your post. Tried to get him to post here again but he won't, siad he'd email me then I could stick it on.

Thank you for sharing your perspective and how you view your M. It's tough. And I can't deny that I sometimes feel that way too, but as soon as I start putting the effort in those feelings of just hanging in disappear.

st,

I am so glad your husband has decided to get help, I think you will both be glad you did.

I understand that your husband does not want to post here, but if you think he would benefit to talking to someone else familiar with BP, let me know and I will give you my email address. I could even see if my husband would talk to him if you think that might help. My husband is so thankful he is finally getting the help he needs.

Take care.

OK, so now you have my BS's perspective on our relationship. This is an email he sent last night having read this thread. I have only edited names and a typo. I will not comment any further for now (although I am itching to comment). I await your 2x4s.

"I am very proud of you for what you have achieved in your life and I take great pleasure in telling people that you were earning the same as me even though I had spent 5 years at uni, and how good you were at picking up the analytical and progressing at old work place.

I am proud of you for achieving what you achieve on a daily basis, kids, house, job and OU study. Not really sure I know whether you are proud of me or not?

I do not want a professional wife, I don't even want you to have a full time job because I am selfish and like having you around when I am off shift (when I am in a good phase). I want you to do something that you enjoy, but you always say that you need a challenging job to feel fulfilled, and you have always been an achiever and this is normally achieved by having a professional job as these are more demanding. I do not want you to waste your talents and ability to make a difference. I just want you to stick at something, all the while I have known you, you chop and change you goals which is fine but I originally started working shifts so that you could achieve your ultimate goal of being a teacher, you then changed your mind and made me feel that my sacrifices were irrelevant. Then you changed your mind back again, and now back again. I do agree that you being a teacher in the short term is a bad idea, but I wonder how long it would be before you change your mind again. I am a person who likes stability and I just about get my head around your latest change of mind and you change it back again, this knocks me down and may start a depressive period I sort my head out again and you change it back (aaagghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!). Basically can we stick to the plan, you get your degree, which, you do want to get and we go from there. I can not leave this job until you are 100% sure what you are going to do, because if I leave and get a lower paid job because you are working then in 1 to 2 years you say actually I would like to finish my degree/training to become a teacher we may be stuck on a low income which will stress me out big time.

I wish you would show some excitement/interest in the things that are at the front of my mind sometimes. Like garage conversion, patio, flooring and holidays. It seems that as soon as doing something that involves money you shut down. I realise I used to want to do everything yesterday, but I keep telling you that I have longer term goals now, but, I still like to talk about them as it gives me something to look forward to.

Raising my hand to you does not even cross my mind anymore (apart from the pyjama gate, which I did not process as aggressive), don't know why maybe because I feel I can get your attention by talking now as you seem to listen and not sneer at me when I am disagreeing with you.

I think a weekly sit down and chat like the other night would be good, just to raise any issues and reaffirm our objectives and joint aims.

Money is my main Achilles heel, I don't want loads but I just want enough so that we can do little things (take away once a month or take the kids out once a month or go out for a meal once a month) without worrying if we are going to get overdrawn at the end of the month.

About you going to band, I do not have problem because it is not the band that was the problem, the problem was that OM saw you were vulnerable because of what we were going through and decided he would try is hand, and you let him manipulate us. I truly do not believe this will happen again, however, you do come in and tell me how X has been making inappropriate remarks or flirting with you and this makes you feel good about yourself. This feels as though it is a dig because I do not do that to you, I do make remarks about how you look or feel but you seem to take it as though I am only saying it because I want SF.

I do love you and the kids soooooo much.

Also very rarely do I say things just to get a response or to get attention on me. (The Chinese incident the other day, or getting DD to phone you at your Mums) I either don't think or genuinely feel it needs to be done/said. i.e At that point in time I did not want the Chinese etc......

I know I do not deserve the number of chances you have given me, but I am thankful that you have. I am doing and promise to continue doing my best to treat you with the respect and love you deserve.



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hi, ST.

You know my story, so please take my advice while considering the source.

First, I thought this was interesting a few posts above, when you wrote that during your talk with your H you learned you "...need to show my vulnerabilities to H (all part of O&H) because that makes him feel more worthwhile and helps with his fear that he is ub=nable to provide for me." It sounds like you got your answer to your question about showing your needs/vulnerabilities to your H.

This thread has been primarily about your marriage and what you and your H are doing to improve it. This is great, and honestly I'm a bit jealous. My H and I have been trying to recover from my cheating longer than you two, and we're not talking about our M much at all. We're talking about our relationship a little but we're mostly still trying to process my betrayal and its annihilation of our M.

I don't know how much of my thread you've read, but two months ago I had a fantastic session with Dr. H. He stressed to me that it's important for H and I to deal with the A first, then focus on the M. During my session, Dr. H talked to me about the "4 Rules to Guide Marital Recovery". I was asked for more detail then so I'm copying directly from my thread on 1/30/09:

==========

I don't know if this is a formal program that Dr. H has developed, but it's what he told me I have do to help my H. I did a brief search here on MB and did not find this process detailed anywhere so I'm sorry I can't give you something more comprehensive.

Why - Why did this happen? Why did I not protect my weaknesses -- my weaknesses being my emotional needs? When my ENs weren't being fulfilled by my H, why did I not protect myself and allow another man in to otherwise satisfy these? Having unmet needs, neglect, abuse, are not the answers to this, by the way. These excuses are not the "why". One can suffer these injustices and still not have an affair. I have to look at why I failed to prevent the OM from satisfying my ENs. My ENs are my vulnerabilities to connectedness. Why did I make my ENs vulnerable to the OM thus allowing myself to connect with OM in ways that should be reserved for my spouse? I have to understand my ways of connectedness and why I didn't safeguard them. The WS needs to dig and learn this.

What - What happened? Mark1952 actually addressed this very thoroughly earlier in my thread here and put it much better than I ever could so I encourage you to read that. (When I'm logged in, it's on page 15, dated 12/19/08.) I have to know what sequences of events, what environments, and/or what factors were involved that put me in the position where I was forced to either protect my weaknesses or make them vulnerable.

Validation - My H needs to get to the point where he believes that I understand how my thoughtless actions affected my BH. Not validating my hurt. But that my BH's feelings -- whatever they may be -- are validated by me and that BH believes this.

Plan - This is where the extraordinary precautions come in that you've surely read about on MB. What is my plan to ensure that this never happens again. What will I avoid, do, say, practice, share, etc. to protect myself and my weaknesses going forward?

Once H and I have gotten through the healing from this tragic infliction as best we can, THEN we can work on our marriage. You can't run the race until you heal the gaping leg wound. Heal the wound first -- clean it out (painful), apply the apporpriate medicine and therapy, let it scar over (as it will never disappear), then run the race. If you don't properly clean the wound, infection will happen and will most certainly make things worse down the road.

================

I'm so glad your H is here, ST, also dealing with his mental health and working to have a fulfilling M. I think it's great you two are uncovering and sharing your ENs and learning about LBs and doing your best to find time for UA. Make sure you don't neglect addressing, analyzing, and recovering from the EA as well.

This is my unprofessional opinion.

Take care, ST. Keep working at it as you are and best wishes to you and your H. You can do this.

-L4

Thank you very much for your offer allboysmom. I'm sure there will be an occasion when he could do with an outside input with a bit of experience.

ST

Hi L4

Thank you very much for sharing your experience and giving me somewhere to go. Maybe you have picked up that I want to give the A a bit more of an airing and thrash it out a bit more with myself and H. THing is with Hs well, not sure how to describe it - I guess he's less than ambivalent about it, I don't like to force the issue. I realise that the thrashing and finding and thinking is something I need to do with me but I guess I was looking for him to throw up some of the qs and he hasn't.

The format you have shown below is really just what I want to work through the ins and outs of it. I know I described it as an EA initially but actually although we didn't go the whole way it was more than an EA (just don't want you good people kept in the dark on that). Either way it was a betrayal and an A.


As you say, we need to be careful about this recovery and need to examine the A more. I am very much aware that I allowed it to happen and that it was my doing. But I think H feels that we have abused each other and in some way the scores are evened and we start again. We need to deal with the A and the mental health issue/agression before we can really say we're working on our M. TO make sure that those wounds don't get reinfected. It gives both a focus and helps to lift us and think positively that we can talk about a future together but we both know we are vulnerable.


==========


Why - Why did this happen? Why did I not protect my weaknesses -- my weaknesses being my emotional needs? When my ENs weren't being fulfilled by my H, why did I not protect myself and allow another man in to otherwise satisfy these? Having unmet needs, neglect, abuse, are not the answers to this, by the way. These excuses are not the "why". One can suffer these injustices and still not have an affair. I have to look at why I failed to prevent the OM from satisfying my ENs. My ENs are my vulnerabilities to connectedness. Why did I make my ENs vulnerable to the OM thus allowing myself to connect with OM in ways that should be reserved for my spouse? I have to understand my ways of connectedness and why I didn't safeguard them. The WS needs to dig and learn this. [/quote]

OK, so I would answer that I just wanted my ENs met, I didn't give any consideration to who or how they might be met all I cared about was that they were being met. ME, ME, ME. Just selfish. To safeguard this, I have to first of all recognise when they are not being met and which ones in particular are not being met and then create opportunities for them to be met by my H.
I was lonely, I wanted an escape, I felt worthless. I often find it hard to realte to females and often avoid them. Music is known to create a feel good loop, the better you get the more you want to play. So in an environment where I'm getting a high from playing anyway it is much easier to begin to associate people with that high too.

This is really hard. Because my BH doesn't show v much that he has been affected. I do understand that my actions could have had a catastrophic affect on H. I think he does believe that I validate his feelings connected with the A.


My Plan: Know my own ENs and be aware when they are not being met.
Try to develop friendships with women ( which I have been doing a really good job at- they're are much friendlier than they look or than I thought). I hope that doesn't sound too freak like. At Junior school I played football and hung out with the boys, then I went to an all girls school which i hated and was bullied at and then worked in a male dominated environment for 9years, the last lab I worked in there were only 2 girls to ~50 men.
I will make sure that I protect my weaknesses in the music situation. I can not give it up - it is me, totally me. If I was asked to choose between OM and music during the A it would have been music. If asked to choose between H and music? - well I hope that doesn't happen.

H did ask me to give up band during the A and of course at the time I was livid - how dare he make me. There was a point where I did agree that I wouldn't go every week depending on his shift so that we could spend time together. As soon as I offered he refused - just wanted to see if I would put him first.

If he asked me to miss a rehersal because he need to talk or needed to see me or he had something special on I now would - I wouldn't during the A. But I will not give it up.
================

Thank you very much for your unprofessional opinion L4. It has been a worthwhile exercise going through this structure and uncovering the dynamics, it has made me think of things I hadn't thought about and things i had subconsciouly been sorting. I welcome any comments, any further advice any 2x4s. I know I am still withdrawing, but can anyone see fog?

I will say thought that my new found frienships and being able to relate to ladies has been because of all of you on here - sharing and caring.

ST

Hi st,

I've been longing to get back to your thread, but it has been so difficult to find time!

Your H's email demands lots of analysis, but I seem to have had my thread-killing effect on you! I'm not experienced or very good with MB, so I don't want you to rely on me for advice!

I only have time to say a couple of things about the email now.

Your H is asking you to forgive him for his behaviours in the marriage, and yet he is not the one who had the affair. Since you both need to eliminate love-busters and must try to meet the other's ENs, what would you ask him to forgive you for? There is the affair, of course, but you were also responsible for some of the conditions of your marriage; what other issues do you need to address to make this marriage happy for H? Stopping the affair (and never having another) will not alone make for a happy marriage.

If you were to write an email, what could you identify from H's email as issues that you need to address? In your various posts here on MB, which H has read, you have told him quite clearly what love-killing behaviour he practices. I am very touched by his desire to stop those and make you happy. He won't post here, but he has read a lot, and written this email, which contains little self-justification and a lot of self-examination. When he is well, he wants to do whatever you ask to make you happy. Are you willing to deal, systematically and vigorously, with the issue he identifies (such as money, and your studies), in order to make him happy?

I read what you wrote about participating in the band, on another thread. While I'm glad that this is not a big issue for your H, I think that if you were fully invested in your marriage, then you would happily give up the band. You wrote as if you were being asked to give up music, which you are not, and which is not the issue; the issue is continuing with an activity that created the conditions for the affair to happen. Your H identifies this as a problem for him, even though he does not ask you to give up the band.

What practical steps are you taking to affair-proof your marriage and create confidence in your H that he is safe from a recurrence? Your H deserves that reassurance, and as a BS I can tell you that this reassurance does not come from words alone ("I will never do that again") but from verifiable action. Perhaps the desire to do all you can for him will come with time, when you seen H changing - but remember that Dr Harley's behavioural approach says that you must first change the behaviour and in doing so you will create positive feelings.

There is more to say about the email, but I must get home now and cook tea! However, I would like to know whether a doctor's appointment has been firmly booked and how you plan to proceed if H is in a down phase and refuses to go.

You said that you were itching to comment on the email. What do you want to say?

Thank you SugarCane for taking some time to respond. Much appreciated
Of course I would ask or forgiveness for the affair. I need to also ask or forgiveness for the time that I began to shut him out- proving myself to be independant (apart from financially) when caring for the children and looking after the house. I would also ask for forgiveness for not considering his feelings and needs as valid.

Yes I am, this was a big secion of our conversation the other night. AT the moment he is keen to continue my study so that I am not only following my dream but so that I am once more earning some significant money. I have suggested that I take on more hours to improve our current financial situation, but H doesn't want me to do this as he doesn't want to slow down progress with the degree or take time away from our marriage building.

I think because the band isn't anything like a crunch issue I find it very hard to think about how I would react. We have just discussed this. H can't imagine that I would suggest he couldn't play V-ball in the name of our M. He doesn't see that me giving up band would help at all. I can see the dangers and have made steps to protect my M from these dangers as listed in my reply to L4's post. Since Mel's post on the "skank" and flirtation I am now fully in agreement that any flirting is an insult and humiliating and have preached on the subject several times today.


Apart form the things I have mentioned already and in the previous post in response to L4. I am visibly quite a different person with different attitudes, which I have demonstrated to H through my keenness to act on MB principles and lead the R from the A. I have also started to decline/avoid invites out with girlfriends and instead invite them here for girly nights in. I am being with H, making excuses to be with him and do things with him. Asking him to come out with me. We have been invited to a party by a mutual friend (she came to our wedding, H met playing vball and we became friendly then, but then when we moved away we lost contact and now I have reconnected with her through this new band) and I have asked H if he will take the night off work to come with me. Previously I would have gone with out him and got a babysitter just for me. But I want to be with him adn I am proud of him,and I want him to be on my arm that night.


The doctor's appt is firmly made. H is now keen to go of course and I think because it is so far in advance there won't be a problem with him refusing because he has made himself aware that the well him wants it and he must remember this when he is down.

I think maybe I have covered some of the things I would reply to in his email.

Will look at it again later and reply

Thanks SC

ST

H now knows that I am very proud of him. Not only how hard working he is and how he provides for us but how emotionally aware and able he has become.

We have a new plan, as written in previous post. I need to make my objectives a lot less clear cut - not to say I'm going to do something unless I can gaurantee it will happen. I will continue with the degree and aim to be a teacher one day.
I am really working on this, I have come to realise that this is H's music. It gives a focus and something for us both to look forward to _ I can guide him so that he doesn't get carried away with his ideas rather than just shutting down in fear of any possible overspend - we can joint project manage with the help of POJA.

I confess I totally dismissed anything H had to say as pointless and worthless during the A. I am now listening and i apologise for being so rude and ignorant.


OK, so I'm confused. This is where H sounds like me - usually we have conflict because I'd like to spend any slight surplus on having fun and he wants to spend it on the house.

Yep ok, hands up. This is very wrong of me and I now apologise for this. HE's right it did make me feel good about myself but now after Mel's post, it makes me feel very bad about myself. I know when H is making remarks about me because he wants SF and when he doesn't, prob something that we need to work on. Interesting on our ENQ, I said I'd like it more often than him yet in real life he does seem to want it more than me! But we both positioned it £rd on the list.




He does deserve the chances because at every point he has been willing to try something else to help himself. He obviously thinks I deserve a chance and I will not let him down.

Hi st,

This was the sort of analysis that I was hoping you would provide - a point-by-point answer to H's desires and wishes.

In your marriage you seem to have what most of us here wish we could have; both spouses badly wanting to work on the marriage and willing to use the MB programme. A lot of us are in "recovery" with one spouse who is ambivalent about making a full commitment and we would love to have the other on board with MB but have not achieved that.

You’ve also got an H who seems not to be paralysed by resentment and grief over the affair. That might be because it did not involve full penetrative sex (if I understand you correctly) but whatever the reason, you are starting recovery with your BS in a lot better emotional state than many. That is, of course, when he is “up”. I envy you! There are reasons to be very optimistic about your recovery and rebuilding.

I read that you are considering the online course, and you should certainly do that if you can. I wonder, though, whether it wouldn’t still be good to have a couple of telephone counselling sessions so that you get a bit of tailor-made advice. It might be better to do this in a month or two after H get a diagnosis and treatment, because you might spend all that money to be told that the depression should be dealt with first. The telephone sessions cost about £150 (plus the cost of the call). You could perhaps look at having a couple of those combined with the Home Study course, compared to the online course at £800+. Whatever you choose I know it will be money well spent.

Have you read His Needs Her Needs (HNHN) and Surviving an Affair (SAA)? I found HNHN in a branch of Waterstones, but I had to buy SAA when I was in the States last summer; I couldn’t find it here. You could probably get both easily from Amazon, or the online bookshop here if it’s cheaper.

HNHN deals with exactly the situations that you and H have identified in your marriage, and tells you how to deal with them. Showing an interesting in H’s projects, for example, would come under conversation and perhaps admiration. Dr Harley essentially tells us to learn how to be interested in what our spouse in interested in. He does not exactly say “fake it”; he says that we should develop a real interest.

Your music comes under recreational companionship (RC). I’m sorry to bang on about the band, but Dr Harley is very firmly against participating in ANY activity that takes times away from your spouse. He says that you need to make your spouse your favourite recreational companion, which means finding something that you can enjoy doing together. I know that you and H go running and do other fitness activities, but I’d guess that you spend more time with the band than doing those, and you shouldn’t. You shouldn’t in a relatively secure marriage, and you especially shouldn’t when that was the activity that allowed you to mix with men away from H. You must remove the conditions that made the affair possible. Dr Harley also says that you must spend a minimum of 15 hours with your spouse, but must spend more at this fragile time, post affair. I’d say, as a BS, that you need to put all your energies into securing your marriage before you allow yourself time for your own passions. Perhaps this need not be permanent, but for now, if ever you need to go out when H is home and you could be together, you should not be going out.

If one of H’s needs is also for family commitment (FC) from you, then that also means that you cannot ask him to mind the children while you go to play. He seems to want you both to spend a lot of time with the children (both together with them), so you must meet that EN.

Dr Harley deals with financial support as an EN also, and gives examples of how to brainstorm problems, especially those of balancing FS, RC and FC.

I’m so glad you’re onboard about flirting, but I would just add that you need NOT to do this to protect your own weaknesses but also to protect H’s heart. You have caused some degree of emotional damage to him with the affair, and talking about men who look at you when you go out must provide very unpleasant post-affairs triggers for him. Don’t do this to him.

I saw you writing to someone else about removing Facebook from her life, but you said earlier that you like keeping up with your friends this way, so I presume you haven’t removed it from yours! Well, how about having only a joint Facebook site, with H, and only a joint email account? You could hardly unblock FOM in a weak moment if you started a new site that H jointly ran. This would be part of your plan for moments of loneliness and severe withdrawal. They will come again, often, I might guess. Do you have a plan to deal with them? Who can you talk to when H gets difficult again and you feel desperate? What displacement activities can you engage in at those times?

Why were you feeling lonely last evening? I read your post on the “fun” thread. Were your H or sister unable to provide friendship at that time? What was missing for you? Are you okay today and looking forward to the weekend?

"I saw you writing to someone else about removing Facebook from her life, but you said earlier that you like keeping up with your friends this way, so I presume you haven’t removed it from yours! Well, how about having only a joint Facebook site, with H, and only a joint email account? You could hardly unblock FOM in a weak moment if you started a new site that H jointly ran. "

Another idea is find MB members who are FB members as well. I have 7 MBers on my FB, FBW and FWW. Its a great way to ensure I am behaving and they get the same benefit. Also we can be alot sillier there than we can be here

Just a thought

Bit naughty aren't I with the old FB thing. Ok, my FB account is never logged out of here at home now so it is open to H at any time whether I am here or not.

H plays volleyball I do band. H is on the committee for preschool , he is out with them at the mo and I am a school governor. We both find satisfaction from doing a bit for the community and we are proud of each other for doing this.

I know this is an area where for now we are going to take a slight calculated risk.

Our M is obviously far from perfect but I can see that we are in a better place than a lot of people about here and I hope that I am not resented by anyone for being here.

I wish that everyone had the MB template for their marriage and that both spouses wanted to use it.

I'll order the books after next pay day.

My plan next time a bad time hits is to come on here. THis is definitely the thing that works best for me.

I wasn't really feeling lonely last night just slightly tougue in cheek left out - everyone else on that fun thread had people they IMd or emailed or talked too. (H was at v-ball lastnight)

Yes i am looking forward to the weekend, kids seem a bit tired though so i hope they don't whine too much.

Have you got weekend plans SC?

OK, I sort of like that idea. Might feel a bit scary to become a real person rather han just ST. I have to confess I did just go to my FB page and check that there was nothing on there that might get me 2x4s by MBers (although of course H says he doesn't object)

Now then, will you be my friend? How do I go about this without revealing to the world who I am?

Hey ST, Lil isn't sure how long she is going to be online, so she asked me to send you her email addy. It's lildoggie@ymail.com

BTW, I'm a MB friend on FB of Lil's. If you would like to add me on there, also, please feel free.