BHFF,

You are in a fire fight now, so just smile, nod and do the job at hand. Let her rage, she is not indifferent and she is focusing on you. This is sort of like advertising, there is no bad press right now.

Just remain calm, focus on your message, and let rip at it. It will drive her crazy, but all of it will be focussed on you.

Your job is to get her out of withdrawal, which is sort of like ripping a roof off to let the heat out. Not fun to do, but important to do. YOu have started with your exposure, you have done well.

God Bless,

JL

You sound better BHFF.

Did you actually speak to OMW 1-on-1 or did she just overhear you talking to her H?

I love this. I feel that by not exposing, this is EXACTLY what I'm doing. "E" day coming soon!

She overheard, original plan was to make him expose to her, give them a chance to save their marriage and family. But if you want to make God laugh tell him your plans. Anyway I need to edit one of my posts. Should have said

PRAY FOR US

I am sure you would have to hold me back. Patience was never my strong suit. It has burned me more then once.

Ouchthathurt,

Kudos to you friend. You have given this BH the BEST advice he has received. I know its not popular here, but in BH/WW situations ... strong, definitive ACTION works better than Plan A.

Every time the subject of ultimatums come up here, it invariably AND ON PURPOSE, gets taken out of context to support the MB infomercial. They can rail about ultimatums all they want, but if they are delivered coldly and calmly and backed up by strong boundaries ... you will know immediately if you have a WW worth the effort, and then can take the appropriate actions based on their responses.

However, we also must recognize that there are many times more BH's like BHHF than there are those that think like us. Therefore, given the herd mentality, its not surprising that they would flock towards those with a similar personalities.

Aphelion recommends that MB should implement some form of triage to determine just what we're dealing with ... type of A, length of A, stability of the M pre-A, strength/weakness of the BH, etc., and I personally think that is a GREAT idea, but again, it is "outside of the box" thinking and thereby dismissed out of hand.

Again, GOOD JOB even if it is ignored by this BH.

MyRev, I think you should go start your own website since you are so much smarter than Dr Harley. Why waste your time on a website whose program is so inferior to yours? I can't imagine why you wouldn't take your expertise and spread that around. Go start your own website and do it on your dime! With your great track record of exactly ONE recovered marriage, you should be able to change the world!

Update-
She came home with a lot of anger. I saw the text ending it. She does not know how how I found out. She said she was staying for the kids. That gives me a chance at Plan A?

I believe compassion is directly related to contrition. If there is true sorrow. If the realization of blowing everything in your life, hits you right in the face, then you can start the work. You can give them grace and love and boundaries. But when you have a dominant WW and a passive BH, it is a recipe for long slow torture, with the spouse eating cake, and getting independent enough leave. My impression of BHFF is that he has basically given in when it comes to conflict. So plan A will be nothing different then what he has done all his marriage. The one redeeming point, was confronting them both, and her OMs wife finding out. That took courage.

If love is the only motivation to try to change someone, it is only one side of the coin. What everyone seems to neglect here is the right or justice side of the coin. Both are needed. As I have said a healthy measure of righteous anger is, I think necessary and good. I am not talking going postal. I am talking about glaring and sometimes unkind truth.
For instance. Every one jumped on me (including BHFF) for the remark I made. When the fact is, I only said it. She actually did it. Why do some people insist that only cool calm and collected is the only expression that should be made.
I believe there is a time for that. But I believe in the heat of discovery, denial, and threats, a strong response of outrage and a willingness to call the cheating spouse on her bluffs, even if she thinks or actually does mean at the time. She or he will leave (or better yet, get kicked out). They will feel isolated and rejected from their family, and rightly so. I believe that when people have the chance to visualize what their future will be like alone, and without the love of their partner and distancing from their children (and you can't say that does not happen), they may comeback with a new perspective and some contrition. Is this every marriage? No. But it is some marriages. If they had a strong marriage b4 the cheating with good compatibility, then I think this is an option. If they don't have a good marriage, Then the alternative plan A, may be the best course. What I am saying like all marriages, responses have to catered to the individuals involved. And it ain't always love and kisses.

OTH,

That was VERY well said ... we may have used different words to convey our perspective, but I'm confident we see things through a common lens.

FWIW, I really like the term "righteous indignation" ... I just can't imagine a BH being afraid of their WW's anger, when it is the WW's ACTIONS that originally caused the conflict, but unfortunately that does seem to be a common response.

damn Mel, what are you the? the discussion forum police. If the Harley's intended this to be all about wrote answers, they would not call it the "discussion forum" and they wouldn't have a disclaimer underneath. I think you have a lot to offer in the way of advice, and I have said it on this board. Why are the opinions of others so anathema to you?

Is there something wrong with my opinion, ouch? I am of the opinion that if MyRev is so much smarter than Dr Harley that he should just start his own website instead of disrupting threads with his endless cheap shots at MB.........on Dr. Harleys own dime. Wouldn't you agree?

OTH,

So as not to threadjack BHFF's thead further, if you would send me an email to the address in my signature, I think I can fill in the blanks for you offline.

BHFF, have you been in Plan A all this time? What Plan A means is that you show her a WILLINGNESS to meet her needs if she ends her affair. It means avoiding lovebusters and causing as much conflict as possible in the affair.

Does she work with the OM? Can you bring me up to speed?

Good job confronting the OM! As BobPure said after he exposed the affair, I changed from a SERF to a KNIGHT. You should be proud of what you did! Good job!

Absolutely not mel, but neither is there anything wrong with anyone else's opinion. If the Harley's were worried about their dime they would have a mod here to wipe out any dissenting views. I believe that this forum actually promotes the Harley's. It shows that they are confident enough in their approach that it stands on its own. I have no problem with their methods, and they have obviously had great success with it. But the fact remains. That people are different and respond in different ways. Sorry for the thread hi jack.

BHFF, Could you give us the back story of your marriage and history? How was your marriage?

Ouch, then you should have no problem with my question asking why MyRev doesn't go start his own website since his own program is superior to MB. Why waste time here making endless disparaging remarks about MB? What is the point? I don't think he is the only one entitled to an opinion, is he? Doesn't that work both ways?

Yes, you continue the the carrot part of Plan A, and you enforce the stick part of Plan A. Reread the stick part, this is the one that you may struggle with.

When dealing with your WW anger, be careful not to get into a pissing contest. She needs to see you in control of your M. If you lose control, it will throw you off of your game.

It's not lovebusting to tell her how painful her A is to the family, that it will not be tolerated, etc.

Hold strong to your goal and realize when she starts to blame or accuse, you need to ignore it, change the subject or walk away.

Update-Contacted by OMW. Directed her here. Told her I would pray for her and her family. Told her her marriage could be saved. I feel like a CAD. I know, I know, their problems are not mine, I didnt have the affair, she would have eventually found out etc.. but I devoted my life to saving people and this is a hard thing to deal with. I did not contact her directly but she was in the room when I called him.

Marriage background-
Married at 26 and 25, ups and downs just like everyone else. She told me one time early on that she wasn't happy thought she might want a divorce. Worked through that, but alot of what I am hearing now is the same as then. Had 2 beautiful boys, one miscarriage. She quit to stay home with them after the 2nd boy. Built (myself) a house for us in 2006-2007. Spent alot of time with that. Work picked up for me, promotions, new duties, spent a lot of time lost in my mind working those things out. Closed her off, she responded by closing herself off and here we are. She says she feels like she has a roommate not a husband. Also that I put her on a pedastal and do not confront her enough (I think that has been batted around enough).

We had our appointment with our NEW marriage counselor today. She seems more with it than the last, (she could even remember our names). I dont know that I agree with everything but at least we talked about both of our issues not just mine. I didnt know how that would go, WW woke up angry, silent treatment for the morning. But it got better in counseling. Again we will see. So for now PLAN A is in effect, a little carrot and a little stick, please again Pray for my family.

You feel like a "CAD?" Do you think that is very rational, BHFF? You did this woman a great favor by warning her that she was being harmed behind her back. You did not harm this woman, your wife and the OM have harmed her. You simply alerted her so she could protect herself. YOU GAVE HER A CHANCE TO SAVE HER MARRIAGE. You brought in the fire hose!

This is the same as warning your neighbor that his bookkeeper is stealing money from him. You are not the one causing the harm.

Did you speak to the OMW? I am confused about that part..

Is this counselor qualified and competent? Most are not when it comes to infidelity issues and marital issues so I wonder how you screened this counselor?