Drgnfly noted on a GQ thread about earning an F, that BH should award it. J's answer to the "have I earned my F yet?" Q was met with "possibly".

Fair enough.

I dont know that I ALWAY ageee with the BS awarding the F, but generally it is the normal way.

I consider Jen as having conquered her quest, having actually recovered her M. She's a role model. I'm still on the journey. I know I deserve my "F" and everyone can debate that until the cows come home. I don't care. I know my heart, my EPs, my struggles, and my head. I am an "F". But as for recovering my M... That journey is still underway. (If you've ever seen Monty Python and The Holy Grail, think of me with coconuts, clip clopping along, on my mission...)

Okay, okay... I got it, LIL.

Wow. Have you been living in my head the last week or so?


Lil can be our troop leader.

Keep going, ST. Keep it going...

I checked with my cows.
they say you deserve the F

and we LOVE the holy grail. Not as much as the life of brian

Lil

You know what? I do that too.........

Affairs are equal opportunity brain messers.

for our future sanity :crosseyedcrazy:

Both J and I struggle with the F because I have my "in my head battles" to get those memories out.

I'm not going back there!

It is only 4months since the end of a 18month+ A. I wish it would go away.

Hi st ( and Looking4 if you're reading here),

There are indeed far fewer FWW here than BWs, but there are more than you think. The trouble seems to be that they do not post in Recovery much, if at all, so it might take a while for you to come across them. If you do, however, you should tie a rope round them and lead them here to talk to you. Don't let them go if you find one: they are wonderful.

The kind of FWW that sticks around on MB after her affair has ended and she has worked on her marriage is a beautiful creature. Not all FWW here have recovered marriages, but that is because it takes two to recover a marriage and the BH does not always work towards that. Regardless, "our" FWWs are priceless. My own favourites are MrsWondering and aussie'swife, whose stories I have traced and read through, and who inspire me greatly. However, lifeschoice, coacheswife, Lexxy (or it might be Lexxxy) Jean36 and several others are also wise and wonderful, and I recommend them too. I cannot remember all the names just now, but I will let you know when I do.

About those thoughts: you could try using a self-help programme. Paul McKenna's book and CD I can mend your broken heart seems really good to me. It takes Flick's LALALA technique to a higher level. It teaches you to train yourself to associate the person you had the relationship with with bad, dull, monochrome and unpleasant images, and to "whiteout" scenes that you replay in your head so that you cannot see them any more. If you can associate that person with lack of pleasure, you will find it much easier to keep thoughts of him away.

McKenna's technique is based in hypnotherapy, which some people do not wish to try for religious or other reasons. However, if you're not opposed, you could browse this book in a bookshop or library to see what you think.

Alternatively (or additionally) If you like, I can put you off FOM by telling you repeatedly, in very colourful language, what a spineless, pathetic toe-rag he is. Just let me know.

I'll look them up, see if I can make some more friends.

Thanks for your post sugarcane. Please keep telling me what a spineless, pathetic etc etc he is. Hypnotherapy sounds like a good idea to me. I manged to use some selfhypnosis techniques succesfully, in labour with DS.

Note here from H, left this morning when I went to work.

ST,
I am very sorry that I drove you to an affair. There is nothing I can do about that now.

I can not give anymore than I am doing. I find you a very angry and short fused individual at the moment. I don't want to be with somebody like that any more, I need somebody who can live with me in my current mental state and it is becoming clear over the last couple of weeks that you have lost your patience with me in that area. Your lack of physical contact towards me (hugs & kisses) turns my stomach.
You are constantly reading books on how to solve our problems, yet seem to be finding more reason to hate me for them.

This morning I came in with the intention of helping you and what thanks did I get? basically an insulting comment about me being a zombie. I am sorry I don not go straight to the next thing that needed to be done but I was a little bit tired. It would not have hurt you to have a bit more patient.

I am sorry I upset you with what I said about how you spoke to the kids but it was how you spoke to me that upset me(not the kids). Up to that point I did not deserve it. I do not see why you are stressed in the morning - why don't you get up earlier?

I honestly think we are doomed. I can not see a way through the morning situation at the moment. I have tried to help by staying up, this is met with resentment, i have tried to get out of the way and this is met with resentment. I do not know what to do.

We had a good chat on the phone last night and this morning when I come to you in bed it is as though nothing happened.

I really want to talk to you but I don't think we can do it. I think we hate each other too much. I can not see you ever loving me again. I am really going to miss you and the kids.

We need to decide whether we can do the holiday before I post the cheque. If not we may as well use the money to finsh the house and sell it.

We relly need to discuss this and our options. I want to support you given your current situation with your mum and aunty. I am talking to you more that I ever did, I am a lot calmer than I ever was but it seems that the better I get the further away you are gettting. It really upsets me.

Whatever I have done to make your skin crawl when I touch you ( I can feel it) I do not see can ever be undone. I am sorry.

You only respond to me when I am angry or say the wrong things. When I try to be fun you just ignore me or scowl at me.

If you want a chat wake me up. I need to talk to you before I go to work. If it was possible to take the night off tonight I would but I have training and I am in charge tonight. I would like to think you would have missed band.

I love you but can't love being with you at the moment

J xxx

For the record: I take full responsibility for the affair and tell him so repeatedly, that I chose to strike up a friendship and I let it go to far and I believed that I was entitled to some friendly conversation and attention.

St, this is an emergency.

I have always suspected that your H feels worse about your affair than you realise, at least judging from your comments at the beginning of this thread. You seemed to think then that the affair hadn’t devastated him. I wonder if also, the fact that he has been so willing to read and do the questionnaires, and has not shown huge distress and resentment, has encouraged your feeling that things are better for him than for many BHs here.

Well, he is obviously suffering badly, and not only from the affair but also from your behaviour towards him since it ended. You have got to do something about your behaviour if you do not want your marriage to end. You cannot continue to indulge your feelings and let them show in your behaviour; his feelings are on the critical list now, and only your behaviour can change them.

I’m going to reprint part of a post I made to Looking4 in November 2008, when she had only been here about 3 weeks. I was using my feelings on D Day 2 to explain how the BW in her situation was probably feeling. You’ll need to substitute a few examples that would fit a husband, rather than a wife, and probably take out the bit about the grey hairs and the ageing face since your H is young, but I hope you can get the point about how BSs feel when they discover the affair. They question the whole marriage and their spouse’s feelings for them.

Add your continued physical rejections to the massive rejection he has already experienced and you must be able to see that he is in misery. You have to do something about that. It is not enough to say that you have taken responsibility for the affair. If you continue make him feel this badly by your actions, then his recovery stands no chance.

You have to compensate him for what you have done to him, and rejecting him as you appear to do in these specific ways WILL NOT DO. It has to stop.

I don't want to hear any defence or statements about what you do right, st. I want to hear what you are going to do about what your H has loudly and clearly identified. I want to support you, but I will not coddle you.

No defence. compensate? How, when I do feel uncomfortable being close, can I stop it feeling like I do?

I do make effort to hug or kiss, but I can't make it feel right?

I have been trying _ I know in the wrong ways to get me to really love him.

Where do I start?

Why can't I love him properly?

I know that HNHN and SAA address the issue of affection, although probably from the point of view of men who do not realise how much affection means to women.

How serious is this problem for you? Has it always been there, and has it got worse since the affair, or did the affair bring it on for the first time?

I read on another thread that you have a psychology degree, so you must understand better than I how behaviourism works. I think the Harley plan would say that if you carry out the acts, romantic feelings will follow. (I'm at work and don't have the books to hand.) However, I can see that if you have a severe aversion to the acts, you won't be able to bring yourself to carry them out, so this is where you seek additional help. If you had the money I would suggest paying for a few sessions with a behavioural psychologist (since the NHS won't stump up for this!) However, I should think that self-help books could teach you a lot. More money, I know, but not a great deal, and you could always try the library first.

Your H is on the emergency room operating table and you must act fast.

Stop asking why you can't love him properly and act. Stop focusing on you and your feelings and focus on the victim that you ran over.

I'm glad you're here, SugarCane. I remember your post to me well. I was sad when I read it, but also defensive if you recall. It was hard to read then and still is now.

ST -

If it's been only 4+ months and your A was 18 months long, it's likely you're still in withdrawal. How much do you know about this time? How much does your H know about withdrawal?

In my case, my intense A was much shorter than yours -- 4 months. And I was hard and cold to my H for a good 3 to 4 months afterward, as I questioned everything about my M and myself and tried to rid myself of feelings for FOM. H didn't know what I was going through since he was unaware of the A, but he knew something was definitely up. I didn't know then, but I was going through big-time withdrawal. I can't help but think you're going through a multitude of emotions right now and your H is feeling the impact of that chaos inside you.

I'm sorry I don't recall... Have you ever met with the Harley's? I have only one time, but it was soooo helpful to me. If you haven't, I highly recommend it for your both. If your H is unwilling, you should do so alone.

I'm here.

-L4

When you reject him, he feels like your heart is still with the OM. It is a knife in his heart. You must also stop the LB's and do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to help heal your husband. The note that your husband left you made me so sad. He sounds like he is giving up. How did that make you feel? Were you sad for the hurt that you have caused or did it make you mad?

It made me feel sad that he feels like this. If he gives up that is his choice.

HE just got up, I touched his hand and kissed him because I feel sorry for him.

This is when i can reach out to him when I feel sorry for him.

he has gone now to wish our niece happy b'day and then to work.

I'm glad you're here too, L4.

We're certainly finding ways of spending st's money for her, aren't we!