I haven't spoken with the Harleys, I would like to but I don't think the cash is available to me.

I wish he would post here so that you guys can help him.

You can help him! You are right there with him. He wants you to care about him and the pain that you have caused. He wants compassion not rejection.

Very sadly I need to do children things now. Thank you so much all of you for being there. Please keep trying to help me find my way through.

Sometimes I can touch him but I do have this aversion quite a lot. If I explain it will sound like an excuse - but it is very real to me and this only part of the reason. I'm not sure where the rest of the aversion comes from.

Messy head.

st, you have no time, nor any right just now to show your withdrawal. I understand a bit of how you must feel, because I, like most people, have been through broken relationships (apart from my marriage). I know that it must be hard, but showing how you feel is an undulgence that you must forego. You know now how your H feels. You caused that, you must stop adding to his pain and you must grow up.

The day Jermaine Jackson got married, I was about 13 (1972-ish) and I cried all day, and so did all my mates. I'm a grown up now, with children to take care of, and I can't cry over fantasy lovers any more. You're a lot younger than I (and you probably don't even know who Jermaine Jackson was!) but you have to grow up, stop crying over your fantasy lover and help your H.

How doI show compassion?

Id on't know how to help him?

I have to go home now, st, so I'm not sure when I'll be back. I'm sure others will give you good suggestions. However, in the meantime, black_raven's short thread on "earning the F" (or something like that! F as in Former wayward) might help. It's on GQII. There have been lots of threads about helping the BS. I'll look some up.

PS: check your email.

Today couldn't possibly be any busier for me though I want to be here. I am not the expert on this, ST, and you know this from my thread. But I may be a slightly further along than you. I know what I'm supposed to do and while it can be very hard sometimes and hard to practice, right now it needs to be all about your H.

I'll see if I can pull stuff from memory or reference some of the great advice I got a bit earlier in my journey to share with you here.

I have a three-hour training I have to jump into here, and a very full day. But I'll come back when I can.

Listen to SC. It's about your H right now. Short and sweet, if you want him to heal and you want to recover your M, he needs to KNOW that you NEED him -- that HE is the one YOU CHOSE.

Yep, I did choose him. See, I don't get it. Now I want him again. It just isn't fair on him is it?

It is so strange to comprehend, how you can want someone but not how you can be so desperate to make it work one minute and then not give a s**t the next

ST,

I don't know all the details of your situation. But, I've read a bit of it today.
Let me give a bit of my point of view.

As a BH, there are days I can't believe that my FWW wants to be with me. This is her second A. She is doing many of the right things. But like all of most marriages in these situations it's a work in progress. MY number 1!!!! Need from her is to come first in her life. I feel that so much of the rest will fall into place if she makes me feel that way.

That's why so many A happen. The OP does that for the WS, and the marriage becomes secondary.

I often feel jealous of her, that she got that kind of attention from an affair, while I got nothing at the time from our disfunctional marriage.

It's not about loving your spouse it's about being IN LOVE with your spouse. Most WS love their BS, just aren't in love with them. We all get lazy and take things for granted.

There are days I want to give up. Days I hurt so bad thinking about what my FWW did. Those days are beyond hard for me. On those days nothing my FWW can do will help.
But if she's there, willing to keep moving forward and showing me she's still committed during the hard times...It pays off big time!!
As I said, I don't know much about your situation with your husband, but if you are committed to him, you want him, want to be (or are) in love with him, show him every chance you get, tell him 100 times a day.
My opinion has become, that if you aren't IN LOVE with your spouse, there isn't any reason to remain married. Even if you are doing all the right things. What really makes things work is being in love.

We can't choose our family, but we can choose who we love.

I made the choice to work on my marriage and love my wife. My wife made a similar choice.

ST, if you are doing all the right things, just remember you can't choose for your husband. You can do the best you can given the situation and the past.

ST.

I said I'd pop over and check in on your thread so here I am. It's not been a great couple of days for you, or your H. I'm so sorry you are both in such pain. It's heartbreaking to read.

You are getting really good advice and there isn't anything constructive I can really add, but maybe a couple of observations may help.

I've never been a wayward so cannot offer much in the way of understanding of your feelings at the moment, compassion yes, but not understanding. However, it sounds a little like your head made the decision to choose your H and your heart is playing catch-up. Your heart cannot catch up though because you closed it to your H, and haven't made the real decision to open it up to him yet. Yes, I know you are there with him, sharing the house and everyday stuff, but I don't get the impression that you are really WITH HIM.

I think in order to have an A, a person has to demonise their H/W, and especially so in a LTA, when you are constantly having to justify your wayward decisions. During this time you look for every opportunity to dislike/hate/find disgusting your H/W. It becomes very easy to dislike someone if you are constantly looking and hoping to find fault in all they say and do.

If you lie to yourself often enough, you begin to believe the lies, and before you know it your justifications about your behaviour become your truths about the reasons for the A, ie your H's failures/issues/shortcomings. Even if you make the decision to work on your M, it seems an impossible task because you have spent sooooooo long demonising your H, that you cannot bear to be near him.

Your H sounds as though he is in terrible anguish, and I'm not surprised because you are telling him in every non verbal way that you are not in love with him.

It is still very early days in the recovery for you both and you are still in withdrawal, but you need to find it in yourself to reach out to your H, not in a sexual way but in a compassionate way. He is in pain and needs your touch. Rebuilding takes time, and is difficult. I am so sorry that you are both suffering so much.

I hope I am making some sense. I'm sorry if I'm completely off track. Just ignore me if I'm talking nonsense. I really just wanted to offer my support.

You're both in my thoughts.

Just a guess but your fluctuating in and out feelings are a sign of your in and out of love feelings. Remember in SAA when the woman noticed that somedays she felt love and other she didnt but they came more and more often?
As far as Af for Mr ST, Af is my #1. It is Flicks #6. So we had to work out an agreement of what MY minimum requierments of Af were going to be (my need, i decided when its filled) To start with he agreed to hug me 5 times a day, kiss me 10 times a day ranging from a peak on the cheek to an out and out snog He also had to pay me one outrageous complement a day. After 2 weeks I up'ed the hugs and lowered the kisses. Oh yes, he was not to end a hug...ever. I decide when its finished.
9 months down the track I get lots of hugs and kisses ad pats and touches, as well as giving them. in fact he has become so used to the level of Af I require that he himself gets snippy if there hasnt been enough Af that day LOL.

I heard a saying once, "men want to be needed, women need to be wanted"

Thank you. I have read and digested to some extent. J has read and digested. I'd like to pull some of this together and then tell you what I have been doing.

SugarCane

Thank you for the sense of urgency you have given me.

It still really helps to think of you BSs that post as being mine, sometimes I just need reminding of what you have suffered.

L4, it was reading your thread that made me realise I wasn't able to go all out in the fashion that you do. Made me reflect -only I just looked or excuses not to rather than getting on with the fight. Let's hope I can get on top of myself



I am reevaluating - I have talked to him.

Thank you L4

Thank you DD. When a BS posts to me it gives me lots of thinking to do and I can then ask lots of Qs that J may not know he has or question whether he has the same thoughts so that I can better understand his suffering and work out where I need to go to help repair.


J says that he wants to come first, so that everything else falls in to place. You saying it doesn't seem unreasonable at all, so why should I think it is when he asks for it?



...pause for thought

it's been worse than that, sometimes it's been total ambivalence

I know that A hurts and that J does have thoe thoughts particualrly when I can't get close but he has just said that the most enormous hurt is the hurt he is sufering now, when I can't get near him when I can't work out whether I love him and when i don't give him the time of day.


Thank you DD for helping me here and I hope you 2 continue to want to make it work.

I have just replied to this post but it's disappeared so here I go again.

I am so pleased that I stopped by your thread the other day and made that connection. Funny, the timing. I now see the light.


I am so relieved that I have got the good advice especially today.


Sere, your observations are what I have been searching for. I think you have got to the bottom of this.

I keep reading on here that it is not about emotion - you have to let your head do the work, but maybe now I need to let my heart catch up - maybe I have to stop pushing and allow myself to feel (frightening).

This is it. Clarity. This is the key. I now know what I need to undo. J made some mistakes but he has worked so hard to correct them and it now seems that actually some of it was slightly out of his control.

I had a moment like this which led me to confess to the A and end it. I suddenly realised on NY Eve that he didn't deserve what i was doing to him and that he was a godd guy and that he was trying so hard and putting in the effort and that he was very likeable and kind. I seem to have forgotten that again.


I wish he was here now, I could reach out to him now. Please don't be sorry for me - i don't deserve that.
This makes perfect sense to me. It has given me that clarity to go on. I just needed to try and find out what went wrong.

Thank you sere

Thank you


I just said to j, I need a proper plan e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g written down, everything agreed.

I can do it.

I phoned J at 10.30, nearly 2 hours ago. He just kept saying "I just want you to be nice to me" and I guess he means mean it, rather than just going thorugh the motions.

Sere's post cleared my head.

I have written a list on our large hall mirror of things I have to do.

Top of the list in very very very big letters:

UNDO THE DEMONISATION
Look for all the good things
Write down all the good things
Keep looking forward
Be nice

The be nice should be at the top, but I've been trying that - I have to undo the demonisation first.

I still haven't been in this marriage, i've kept myself on the outside looking in - or actually I think I have kept J on the outside.

And J, well, he just keeps going. He doesn't think I can do it, doesn't want to believe I can and who can blame him. I told him I did it, I can undo it. Now I have to act. Despite all of this he has tonight planned an itinerary for our holiday in August!!! Is he wonderful or crazy?

This is a total lightbulb moment for me, much like the 31st December. Let's hope I can catch it and keep it going, no, I'll rephrase that - I will catch it and keep it going.


If I get cr%p please can you point me back here to this light bulb moment. Ah, actually I'll see if I can put it in my sig line.

Thank you everyone today.

I would like to know, does anyone else believe i can do it?