Hi 6yl

I'm too scared still to ask for what I really need - I don't want to send him spiralling into depression because he feels he can't do the job. I wasn't aware of the near encounter until sis told me. I am very annoyed that she did and can only assume that it's cos of the stress in her life at the mo - she thought I needed more in mine!!




I think you have me confused with someone else. Mum started her chemo for the first time ever yesterday and I never ever did OM.


I sort of think I want him to be the strong one, but I'm scared of giving up my position as the strong one, still slightly reserved t showing my vulnerabilities.

Thanks 6Y

ST

thanks v

ST

Hi ST,

so sorry about the rough day. Starting the chemo is hopefully the beginning of the end of the C in your mum's body. A horrible but necessary process that enables a full recovery. Is this her first chemo? If so, it might not have the extremes of sickness, hair loss that you think, but it is going to be a very tough and stressful time for all your family, so you and J need to sit down and discuss coping strategies.

You cannot carry it all without some support from J, so let him know in advance that you're feeling vulnerable and fearlful about the coming weeks. Do not ask for anything specific during the first conversation but pause and wait to see what he offers to do for you. If nothing is forthcoming then you will need to ask for what you need, but try and let him figure out what he can do for you.

He might appreciate your vulnerability and rise to the occasion, but at the very least you need to have the conversation about the support you will need. Him not giving you support at the moment will drain your LB and you need to head this off if you can.

I too am very strong and independent, and hate people to see my vulnerabilities. I didn't realise that not showing this side of me to my H made him feel inferior because he felt he was weak in comparison to me. His perception of himself as the weak one, unable to live up to my standards of strength led in part to his depression and then his A. Men sometimes find it hard to be married to very strong women.

An observation about your sister. I am sorry but what she did was not friendly to you or your marriage. What is her agenda? If she has to speak to FOM she needs a strategy not to discuss you and certainly not to discuss her meeting with him with you. It's a really bad idea to have any lines of communication.

If I question your sister's motivations, then just imagine what must be going through J's mind?

I hope today is better for you ST.

It would be nice if you would apologise for that error, 6years. This is a grotesque accusation to read when it is not true.

st had an 18-month affair that became physical towards the end. She stopped the affair before it progressed to full sexual intercourse, confessed to her husband and came here for advice on exposure to OMW and rebuilding.

I think that the WW that you are referring to has not posted here herself. Wasn't this the wife of the poster who has had to do a runner for "decking the OM"?

J has fallen to pieces. He spent all morning with mum and dad. Mum is throwing up every 15mins - 1/2 hour with all the anti sickness they can throw at her. I have been there for a few hours this afternoon.

I have to be the strong one

st,

I won't say any more about your need for support because others have said it all, I think. Serendipity's post especially was superb.

However, I've always had a feeling about unfinished business with your situation and perhaps I should raise it now.

First: I don't think that OMW knows enough about the affair. I posted this on another thread you started some time ago.

J sent a letter to her workplace and told her not to open it at work. I think that she might have taken it home, told her H that she received it and was about to open it and he either persuaded her not to open it or he explained it away as the ramblings of a jealous H.

I'm just surprised that she never contacted J, and that she let her H continue in the band for a while. In fact, OM contacted J (or was it you?) to express his anger, didn't he? I find that all rather odd.

Second: You need to move. Neither J nor you can recover your marriage with OM living close by. Dr Harley is insistent on the need to move house if the affair took place in your district. If you think about it, yesterday's sighting could not have taken place if you had moved. You've also seen OM and his wife in a supermarket, haven't you? These sightings could take place at any time for years to come. You need to move.

I know that J did not take this idea enthusiastically when you mentioned it, and I know all about the British housing market just now. However, you can always find a buyer if you place your house at the correct price.

I have found recovery to be a huge task that requires major changes. Luckily my H's OW lives in Belgium and we have never had to consider moving house, but my H had to change jobs within his organisation so that he never travelled again. He saw her in Belgium when he was working there.

He had to take a (relatively small) pay cut and give up an interesting post in which he had autonomy and look for whatever he could get. He does not enjoy the new job and complains about it sometimes, but never at me, or as if he is blaming me for making him miserable. He tells funny stories about how "Reggie Perrin" it all is, but sucks it up with grace.

Affairs profoundly change how your BS sees you and your marriage. In taking the lead on moving you will be showing how seriously you take the task of compensating your H and rebuilding the marriage. You need to show extraordinary care for him even if he appears not to demand it.

I'm so sorry about your mum. People close to me have been through chemo and I know how grim it is. How many cycles does she have to have?

Describe "fallen to pieces", please.

tears, yeling, shouting

I ain't moving and leaving mum and dad now

promised dd i'd take her to her swimming lesson today. can't let her down in this chaos

thanks everyone for being there.

st, when you get back from swimming, could you slow down and tell us a bit more about J, and particularly about the yelling and shouting? What or who is he yelling at and about? What does he actually say? Who is he angry with, and why?

I sympathise because my own H has a very odd, angry response to illness. I'm just trying to work our whether J is being affected by an oncoming "down" period. What do you think?

I didn't mean that you should move now this minute, if such a thing were possible. As you know, it would take months to sell a house. I'm not saying that you even need to put it on the market this week. I asked about your mum's treatment; if it's planned to be about 3 months, as is common, you could tidy up the house in anticipation of getting it on the market in late summer. You do not have to say anything to your parents just now. If the treatment does not go well and your mum needs more in the autumn then you could think again then. You can't move now indeed, but this needs to be a goal for your marriage. Your mother won't always be having chemo, and your father will learn to cope with her recovery. While your parents need a high level of support just now, you must not take your eye off your marriage.

We're all worried about you ST. You're juggling way too many balls at the moment, and it will be impossible to keep them all up in the air.

Breathe!

Sit down for a minute and develop a strategy with J, with your sister, with her H if possible and with your dad.

You don't have to be superwoman. You're carrying too much at the moment, and there's no harm in asking for help.

What can you offload to friends and neighbours for the short term? What advice has the hospital given to you with regard to support for your mum?

Be still for a few minutes, breathe, and think about the advice you would give to someone else in your situation.

Hi, ST.

You posted this on March 26:
My answer? Yes.

You need your H now. Please do as 6YL, Sere, and SC have suggested and sit down with him to discuss coping mechanisms and how your family can get through the next few months. Please give your H the opportunity to be your strength, be your pillar, be your partner, be your husband. Let him and your home be your place of comfort during this very very difficult time. If he doesn't step up, then you'll have learned something. But I think it's unfair to not provide him with the opportunity to prove that he can be counted on to help you. ...That he can be your H in every way.

ETA: Last August our DD5 fell out of a 2-story window and was in PICU and the hospital for 5 days. It was terrifying. I was the take charge, be there for DD5 the whole time, arrange care for DS7, schedule visits, help with medication... I couldn't leave my baby's side. H wanted in though. He didn't like being at the hospital because it scared him and someone had to be with our son, but I interpretted it as him being chicken, not being able to handle things when the going got tough. Oh, and it just so happens I was going through withdrawal and was considering leaving H, so do you think my thinking was somewhat skewed?

We've talked about it since. You know why H wasn't there as I thought he should be? Because I didn't let him. I had to be in charge. I had to be in control. I had to do everything myself. And what did I get for it? I was totally exhausted. Completely. And I resented H. I look back and wish I would have let H in to help me with caring for DD5, with my emotional break-downs, and with my physical weaknesses. He was scared to death too. But I didn't give him the opportunity to do anything about it. I was horribly unfair to him during a very tough time, a time when we should have been depending on each other like husbands and wives should do.

Great post L4.

ST, there's a consensus of opinion here from those of us who have made the mistakes you are making.

Something really important I have learned is that there is no point being a giver in a relationship if you are keeping score.

I gave and gave, but in some part I gave to maintain the upper hand in the relationship. I was somehow superior because of all the giving I did and all the taking of others from me. I feared being a "taker" because I hated to be in "debt" to someone.

I have learned that about myself because of all the reading I have done since the A, and it isn't a pleasant thing to learn when you think you have been such a selfless and giving person.

Sometimes, taking from someone can be the most giving thing you can do.

Please take some help from someone, and give J the chance to be that someone.

HI guys

Thank you very much. I'm back. Things got mad. They admitted mum - she passes out when she throws up so has been unconscious a lot. I have just come back from the hospital where she is now talking, still sick if she tries to move. She has a real real problem with vomiting, it has always had a very very strange effect on her and very scary for everyone.

J was a wonderful support to my family this morning while I was at work. When I came home - i asked how things were and he said she's still lying on the floor throwing up all the time so I said " so the anti sickness injection hasn't worked at all" he said oh yes she is a bit improved. While I'm afraid I was cross because he just told me the doom and gloom bit first, Why couldn't he say " she has improved vry slightly with the injection". I did ask this probably in disrespectful tone and he went mental verbally.

Yelling and yelling at me that I was ungrateful and name calling etc. I tried to tell him that I was exceptionally grateful and that my Aunty was quite sure she would not have coped at all without him (running around getting prescriptions from dif places as they were out of stock) and with the state of her sis ( we are all close).

I said thank you but he still kept yelling. We got in the car to go to mums and he really really really let it go(this was the first point I was fearful of his anger and it lasted only v v briefly which shows how far he has come in controlling himself): he had suddenly realised that while his dad was having a hip replacement last nov I was having my A and wasn't interested in his dad at all. He was really struggling with dealing with his own need to help my family out when I hadn't been there for his. Very hard for him his mum and dad are 170 miles away and he is only child.

I apologised, he's right I wasn't interested and I knew it was a routine op and had very very positive vibes about it (no comfort to him at the time or now, but his dad recovered v,v,v quickly with no complications at all.)

I have been very honest with J about my feelings at tea time. I don't want to let myself go - I'm keeping busy so I don't have to stop and think. Mum has said she won't have anymore chemo and at the mo, I don't blame her - i can't see them being able to reassure sufficiently that she won't be like this again. I had to get out tonight everything is so raw - i went to band for an hour, we have a mutual lady friend there who I knew would just make me feel much more ralxed. I called 3x whilst I was out to say to J that I was sorry that I just couldn't face being vulnerable at the mo and that is why I in effect ran away.

He has been doing a real good job of hiding his emotion form me and what actually he has been up to - my anuty has told me all of what a star he has been. He has been to angry to talk to me without me feeling the need to run.

hings are calmer now, I 'm sure we will have a big hug before bed and make a time to talk about all of this.

I'm sure we will now get back into conversation and then try and work out what we need to work out tomorrow.

I am wrecked - went to bed real late cos of the worry and then DS was up for over an hour with post imm fever. Never mind everyting else.



Thank you so much L4 for going back and digging up that old post. When I come off the ceiling I wll work out a way of trying to be vulnerable before I actually feel vulnerable so that I don't get to the point where I shut down totally.

J is back to work tomorrow - we have no chce now of getting our 15ua in, he might come home after an important meeting he has - I hope so.

This is good actually -I do want him here, if this had happened before i started undoing demonisation i wouldn't have wanted him near me for a few days. He was very intolerant of the kids tonight again, yelled at dd cos she knocked her spagheti hoops on the floor - she cried and before I possibly wouldn't have wanted to be near him ever again ater his AO.

I need to do all I can to try and make sure he doesn't slip into depresion again.


I'm not just giving - I went to band, I'm just not showing my emotion either - too scared, what if i can't stop. I just don't know whether j can cope. I'll go back and read that post i made to roogirl again.

Thank you so much for being here, SC, sere, L4 and he others - I honestly don't know how I would have got through today and been able to think even a little bit straight without your pointers and support.

Just went up to J to give him a hug before we went to bed. I said whilst hugged "I just can't let me go yet". Which then started his DJing about what do I mean, why do i talk in riddles. Why couldn't he just say "I know, you know I'm here for you when you need me"

He jsut couldn't undersatnd at all what I meant despite the fact that prob 3 or 4 times this evening I have told him that I'm finding it hard to be vulnerable. Why doesn't he understand me? Why doesn't he try?

He's just calling me names again now. He wants to be by himself - he means long term.

(35minslater)

he wanted to talk so I went and sat down with him (against my better judgement) - I think I was jsut sat in a wind tunnel.started off chatty about tomorrow but the quickly went into name calling - how crap i handle everything how selfish i am etcetc. When i tried to say something he got up held his hands up and turned around. When I pointed out that that made it difficult to tell him how I feel he jeered " go on be brave little girl".

He's gone to bed now, making threats about what will happen if I wake him up.

I can't believe my sis told me about fom and j wishes i hadn't told him, because he is now blaming all his anger on him.

ST,

Did you really think that your statement was clear? I had no idea what it meant until you explained it. At first I thought it was a selfish reference to wanting the OM. Of course, I'm not emotionally attached so it was easy for me to read your explanation.

He clearly is not handling the situation well but I'm guessing he is angry about the FOM situation.

Hi ST,

is there something about this situation or how you are handling this situation that is triggering J?

I am a little puzzled that you chose to go to band and get support from a friend there. You must have been able to be vulnerable to that friend in order to gain some support. Why is it so difficult to open up to J?

Does J have a fear that you will run from him and possibly to someone else when you are needy? Does he think that this is what happened when you had your A?

This situation sounds serious and I'm worried for you. In this crisis, it is an opportunity for you both to pull together, be there for each other and support each other. I know that you hearing from sis about the FOM and J knowing that sis talked to him will have upset him greatly, but there seems to be more going on here than that.

You need to wave a white flag so that you two can have some RH about what is going on here.

ST.

That statement is a little ambiguous, especially when he is so obviously triggering about something. To me, you are saying to him that you are deliberately holding something back from him.

If my FWH said something like this to me, I would be devastated. Truly. My imagination would race about all the things potentially being held back and if he had felt able to "let go" with the OW? I would wonder what on earth was wrong with me that made my H feel unable to be his true self with me. I would question the whole relationship. It would put real doubts into my mind at a time when I needed to feel certain about my H's feelings.

Also, when you mention what you would have liked him to say, you are doing so from a position of knowledge of the MB principles. He is not reading here (I think I'm right in saying that) so doesn't know how important it is to be supportive and say the right things even when you don't feel like saying the right things. I know we'd like to think that these things should come naturally, but when you're so emotional it is so difficult to put your S's needs first.

That was one of the things I found so useful at first from MB. The things I learned calmed me and I learned not to LB and about triggers and to take a breath. I don't know how BS's cope without MB strategies, and J is having to cope without MB, so I think you may need to give him a break.

I hope today is better for you ST, and I'm sorry if you think I'm being hard on you and making excuses for J. It is possible that I am giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt here, but as a BS myself, I can empathise a little more with how he may be thinking. KWIM.

Thinking of you today.

Well apparently it wasn't, but based on all the conversation we had had in the afternoon about me not being able to be emotional in fornt of him I thought that yes it should have been perfectly obvious.

I know he is very angry about the FOM thing in town and sis.