HW, still thinking of you and your sitch...How are you doing?

i am here - in a better place today.

Have you and WH talked anymore, did he leave?

I am glad you are in a better place today? If you ever feel like talkin or venting I am here a lot and if not thats okay too. Hang in there.

I told him i love him and want him to stay.
but - him hating me so openly, and treating me with distain in front of the kids is hurting them. The best path is for us to love each other, work on restoring our marriage. But if he can not - i respect his need to leave and heal apart from me. He said he wasnt ready to leave. He didnt know if he had to do that yet.
I said I understand and i respect his feelings. I also said That I understand he can not love me today. I dont expect him to trust me. But I asked if he would just throw his heart and soul into learning to love me again - with as much effort as he has put into hating me - that it would be a start. That we cant restore our marriage if he loaths me. He said he doesnt respect me. I asked if he sees anything good in me. He said I was a good mother, a good writer, a good cook and a good home maker. I asked if he respected me for those things. He said yes. I asked, do you love me as the mother of your children. he said yes. I said that it was a start. And we can work from there. He said he didnt know if he could. I asked - do you think it is impossible to love me again. He said no. He just doesnt know. I said okay. He was less hostile last night even before we talked. He didnt come home from work until 7PM - he gets off at 4:30. I was worried at first - he keeps talking of an Revenge affair. But it turns out he was just working on one of our project cars. When he got home, we worked on it together. He ate the dinner I had prepared for thekids. We put the boys to bed. then we had the discussion i noted above. Then - our ten year old came upstairs, said he couldnt sleep. I put our 10 yr old to bed. Then we went to bed. He let me kiss him good night - which is a change - normally he wont let me touch him. we started to cuddle and such but the five yr old came upstairs because of a bad dream. I tried to put 5 yr old to bed but he was in too much pain (he smashed his finger on sunday (er trip)...i had to let some of the blood out from under his finder nail, which hurt alot...poor baby. I then held him till he went to sleep. By the time i got to bed H was asleep. around 4AM i initiated SF - he didnt reject me and even kissed me twice (sometimes he will want SF but refuse to kiss me - it is an intimate act of love to him...more than just SF) SF again this am and a kiss goodbye before he went to work.

He doesnt know what he feels. He wants to love me again but fears I will cheat again. He has always had very bad anger problems. Our MC says I uncorked rage built up from years and years of problems (just not what I did). In the last week he has disowned his family, shut out all his friends. He is thinking about switching jobs. I am the focus of the rage, but its not all about me. But now - i am his outlet. He needs to learn to manage it. He needs to learn that if he gets a flat tire - its not related to what I did. Right now - all bad things are because of what I did. Before, when bad things happened, i was his balance (he said this last night). I brought stability to him. Now he is without my grounding affect and so he is spinning out of control. I used to soothe his anger, now I am the focus of it. He is confused and lost in his emotion. i hurt him and betrayed him,,,the one person in the world he trusted. So now - he trusts no one. its a scary and lonely place to be. And I dont know how to help him.

i just dont like putting this on a forum where every one can see. its so personal - i feel vunderable typing it out like that.

I completely understand..Thank you for letting me know how you are doin...It seem that he is opening up a little, he loves you, it is clear..he is just having a hard time trusting you, this is normal..

The bad thing is him takin all his anger out on you, but if he is getting help for that then that is good. I think as a FWW you might have to take some of his anger to help him vent..and you can never do enough to show him that he can trust you now, although it will take time before he does.

What you just posted sounds hopeful..after some time passes maybe you can talk to him about the stuff on here and how MB plan for marriage recovery sounds solid. Or you guys could talk to Dr. Harley or go for a MB weekend seminar...But I wouldnt push that yet, but I wouldnt give up on it either.

For right now just one day at a time, until he is ready for you both to do the work for a better marriage.

I think he has a lot of anger to work through first, in therapy i hope...and all you can do is keep reiterating that you are there for him and that you love him and want your marriage to work.

HW...please tell him that in order for you to cheat on him, you had to act out your feelings...which is part of what affairs are. You realize now that respect does not act out...it states, not demonstrates. You know that not enforcing that boundary around yourself led to destroying what you love most...yourself, your family and your BH.

Do not tolerate it from him, as your act of love and redemption. Another part to watch for is if you're DJing him...could be you're assuming he is acting out disdain...though he might.

Check yourself. There's no way you could have committed adultery if you'd been acting from respect every step of the way. Do that now. Check your DJs...aloud, especially. They are a big part of the wayward mind. Dump them now. Each time you catch yourself assuming or defining your BH, admit to it outloud...state what you just did, why you did it, and how and why you don't want to do it again.

Hold him to the same...again, remember how deeply you bought your own self-lies in order to cheat...to justify is to lie...do NOT justify his choices, his actions...and do not do so for your own.

Respect he can stop acting out...it's a choice, not a condition. Respect that he is choosing to stay without recommitting to the marriage. Up to you to know your own limits...as an act of love...how long you will go without knowing his choice...ask for clarity. Then share YOUR limits.

Stop the dj's like "I understand he cannot love me today" more lies. He loves you. He hates what you did, hates how he feels, hates having to take all these consequences from the actions YOU chose which he had no choice in.

Know the difference. Not knowing the difference gave you a wayward mindset. You're not free of it it. Get free of it. Choose differently.

Truly respecting his feelings is listening to know and understand...NOT accepting when he acts them out. That's not love. That's more fodder for your wayward mindset. Hurts recovery. And you HAVE to personally recover, no matter what he decides. That's yours...your responsibility. Solely yours.

Stop speaking through him and begin speaking TO him. "I am not trustworthy today. I want to rebuild your trust in me, and I know I have to rebuild trusting myself. I lied so much, so many times, I don't know where those lies end and truth begins. My job is to stop lying. Only way to rebuild my trust is to be transparent with you and myself. I'm doing that every day. That's my goal. That's what I'm holding myself to."

You cannot ask anyone to throw their heart and soul into anything. You lost that privilege...YOU throw your heart and soul into personal and marital recovery...YOU hold yourself to healthy boundaries, you FOCUS on you...not him...and you do not allow him to cross boundaries of respect, otherwise, I guarantee, YOU will do so again yourself.

He hasn't chosen the marriage or you, HW. What you can ask for is his deadline for making the real choice...to leave the marriage with the children, to leave the marriage without the children (as primary), or to stay and work on recovery for two years, and THEN decide to re-marry you at that time, or leave the marriage.

Sound off or crazy? At one point, our MC had us renewing our marital contract every three months...as long as we could conceivably commit...and my FWH took three months to decide what he was going to do. That was my limit, too.

You can restore your marriage if he loathes you right now. It's not forever. It's right now. He LOATHES what you did...and himself, a lot. You gonna be there to lead recovery, to heal him, to be his true ally...or are you going to continue in a wayward mindset, making your opinion fact? Telling him what can and cannot be? More lies to yourself. Stop doing that. You don't want more lies.

You totally don't respect yourself...so it's reasonable that he doesn't. He can, just like falling in love with you, respect you again. Respect, like trust, can be rebuilt. You have to do so for yourself, anyway. Why not do it maritally?

Your marriage can survive him not respecting you right now, too.

It cannot survive him acting from disrespect. Know the difference.

Stop making it all about you--how he sees you, what good, etc. You're an admiration TRAMP, woman...stop. YOU define who you are...asking others to do so got you to wipe out what you cherished most...you will cheat again and again until you really get this. Shortcuts lead to affairs...don't self-sabotage. Don't shortcut to feeling better through fantasy. Own that only you define yourself...and then you'll understand how much you lied to yourself through defining who your BH was...

You ARE wife, mother, writer, daughter, best friend...and adulteress. None of which are WHO you are.

Tell us if you can love, respect, admire your BH...if HE is a good father, BH, son, provider? Get into your heart and uncover how much you drove him into the ground in your mind and soul in order to betray your marriage. See him new today.

He is a human being, your equal, you decimated. That doesn't justify him decimating you. Your family. Justification is a lie. Don't buy into it.


Ask him to lay out the terms of recovery. Ask him if he can envision any better possible scenario than to be crazy in love with the mother of his children...and that you have made that YOUR goal. Tell you know he is capable, that his choices matter as much as yours...and you understand if he won't.

His fears are valid...you haven't changed the real reasons why you chose to cheat...get to them. For your protection and his...his anger is about him...coming from him. Up to him to resolve it. He can feel angry...tell you how angry he feels and why...he cannot act it out. That's the difference.

Stop with "he needs to know" crap. YOU need to focus on what you do when he acts out his anger...to protect your marriage and your kids. To hold yourself to new standards of conduct...to keep your promises to yourself. Your focus on him and what he does and doesn't feel, has to know, learn and understand will end your marriage.

All of those things are your responsibility, on you, about you. Focus.

He can balance himself...he is capable, able...it's a choice. He used you to complete him...instead of you both completing the Union. You did the same. Know this is normal and ends marriages...because that belief tells you each is defective without the other...incomplete, not enough...it worsens what we learned as children...and it's two partners in a lie.

Tell him you KNOW he can heal and personally recover from what you did...that you know you ripped out what seems like the fabric of his soul...his entire belief system in the world. It's true. You did. You knew how much he would hurt...even without understanding a human could hurt THIS much.

Part of rebuilding trust is making and taking predetermined progressive boundary enforcements around your behavior...when you cross the boundary of respect by DJing in your mind or in your words, you hold yourself to owning what you did right then, aloud to BH, why you did it (stinkin' thinking), and why and how you won't do it again. Not who you are. Not going to fantasy.

You do the same when he acts out...AO's, SD's and DJs you. State what the boundary crossing is and what you're going to do in that moment...what you're holding yourself to doing.

Demonstrates to him you will do what you promised even if you don't feel like it (feel more like retaliating or manipulating instead)...that rebuilds trust in yourself and in him...delivering on it through respectful, loving actions. Every time you take abuse from him, you are hurting him all over again. Stop doing that.

Please find and attend Alanon meetings...because another lie you both bought was that you could soothe his anger (like a child, when he's a man)...that you are now the brunt...when he hurts...where you go from monster to victim, and back again...from saint to martyr...

when all the time, in reality, you're human. You choose your perspective. He hurts. He feels anger. He comes home to you. He's struggling. You're struggling. And because of what you did, you both will, for years. Up to you to stop doing what you did before and truly see what it took for you to do destroy this much, dearest to your heart...

LA

Hi everyone! Since I lost all my recent posts, I decided to go back to my original imanotherone incarnation. (Was lazy last time and just set up a new version because I didn't remember my password.)
HW, I had no idea that you were also the victim of a violent assault. You should change your sig line--what happened to you was NOT a ONS. You need a lot more help with this.
I wish I could see your earlier posts again, because I had a totally different idea about your BH than I do now. I thought he was a peaceful and forgiving man. It sounds like he, too, is as violent as your rapists.
Please do not expose your children to this abuse. He desperately needs anger management counseling. Also, is he involved in the church at all?
What a horrible thing for you to endure. Sure, you weren't perfect. You made a mistake, but in my mind, it's not the same as a long term affair. You had one episode of weakness and came clean immediately. Your H should be working with you to strengthen things, not to punish you for all of his other grievances.
If he has isolated himself from his family, that's a serious sign, too. Are his family members violent as well? Trying to see if the isolation is a good thing, or if you should rally them for support.
Sorry to hear about this development.
Good to be back, everyone!

LovingAnyay - I dont think I make DJs. I go strictly off of waht he says. When he makes a statement I say - I hear you and understand what your saying to me. I dont try and twist his words to mean something else. When he says he hates me - he does. when I say he hates me its because he tells me daily "I truelly, truelly hate you - i sometimes think i feel love for you, but then my hate for you overwhelms me. I truelly loath you, you are tainted and ruined forever"

When asked "can you learn to love and trust again" he says "I dont know, i cant see the future, if you can , i want the winning lottery tickets too".

IF I ask him to not call me names or disrespect me he replies with "am I not allowed to feel things - this is how I feel right now - why cant I tell you how I feel - i am not allowed to having feelings in my house?"

I tell him I am being transparent - he has all my passwords and account info for everything (he actually logged on my blog and left some comments about me being a cheater and responsible for everything wrong in our family - i left it but changed the name to "my husband" when he saw that he removed the comments". I am accountable about my location. I have written EPM with him. He says he doesnt care - because I am a liar and so everything I say are lies - he tells me over and over again that he doesnt care what i do or "who you do".

I am focusing on me. I am focusing on our children. On providing them as stable and loving a home as possible. I focus on my relationship with God. I pray and meditate. I work on being what God says I should be as a wife. 2 Peter chapter 3 is something I read often (do not return evil for evil etc.)...

I know he can balance himself - just as I turned to him for strength and personal validation...i have learned to get my value from myself - from God...not his opinion of me. He needs to learn to get his balance and grounding from God and himself. I can not do it for him. I realize this.

when he lashes out I simply apoligize for betraying him and give him space. I spend time with children etc. I do not try to change his mind. I try not to DJ or do any of the LBs...his EN are foremost in my mind at all times.

his parents were abusive and alcohlics. he has much anger stored up against them.
i am not sure they can help us. i think time - and me being a consistant and loving presense in his life...that is what it will take. when ever he says he is going to leave and I dont fight against it - he back peddles. I dont know if he wants to go or not. If he is using it to hurt me or not. when I stopped arguing with him about the names he called me and just removed myself from him when he did it - he stopped calling me names. I do not wish to DJ so i will just repeat what he said
"I want my wife back - but you are different. I want my life back. I dont know if I can love you again or trust you. I want to forgive you, I want to love you, but then i think - if I forgive you, you get away with it. You get away with it and I cant allow that. Why should I work on this marriage when you destroyed it. You were my princess, my perfect wife. You were different from everyone. and now - your worse then the other women i dated. You hurt me worse than anyone else ever could. I never trust anyone...the only person i trusted did the worse damage to me. you helped me, you balanced out the areas i lacked, i thought you were perfect...but instead it turns out you were white trash"

That was last night. I love this man with all my heart and soul. i have some EPMs that I adhere to very tightly.


1. I am never alone with men. Ever. This is both for trust issues (I want to always be above reproach) and for practical reasons as well. Although I am convinced I will never cheat again (ever) I am also aware that I must begin by never placing myself in a situation where it would be an option. Because of my job, I occasionally have to meet or talk with men but I don�t go out to lunch or coffee with them. My boys get haircuts at a male barber that almost never has other women in it. I asked my father to take my sons for the haircut. I do not want my husband EVER to wonder again.
2. I do not have emotional attachments/relationships with members of the opposite gender (except family members). No old BF as friends, no old High School friends - no one. I had in the passed had Male friends - i would complain about H to them. I realize how this was disprespteful and how it crossed boundaries.
3. I am mindful of what I watch and Read. This is simple. Music, books or TV stories that glorify inappriopriate ideals can seep in and influence your behavior.
4. I do not do activities alone - i.e. go to lunch alone etc. I always have my husband, a family member or my children along. With time I can earn this back - but right now it causes him to have doubts and fears...
5. He has my passwords to everything. He can check my email account or my facebook page any time he wants. I have nothing to hide from him, and it feels amazing. I am completely O&H.
6. He has the power of veto on activy or relationship (POJA.)
7. I do not go online and "chat" with anyone - ever. mb forum posting - that is the exclusion to this rule. I do not provide personal contact info or interact with people one on one in email from forum. Putting everything out in open on forum adds accountability - but is also very scary for me. I have removed all male friends from facebook account - family and married, christian female friends only. I find that some single women have negative mind sets towards men and marriage that had influenced my behavior in the past.
8. I do not drink alcohol ever
9. I do not attend social events with out H - if he does not go - i do not go.

Humbled Wife, I am reading your posts a while already and wanted to ask you a question. You are saying that it was a fantasie of your husband to watch you with another man. Sometimes I am wondering if he is more angry with himself then with you for bringing it up in the first place. Would it made a difference if he would have been there when it happened?

imanotherone - also - i, for two years,engaged in online flirting with men - seeking ego stroking and attention. I made one attempt to meet a man (i lied and said just as friend. I convinced myself it was just for drinks - meeting at a bar with coworkers. I dont believe I intended to cheat - but i crossed boundaries and created the behavior that later allowed me to cheat). He never showed. I engaged in stupid and reckless behavior that lead me to that club in vegas, where I met that man. I then went willing to his room (although totally drunk) i was willing. The events the followed simply had humiliation and trauma to my betrayl. I was stupid, reckless. I could have been killed - thats how snuff films get made. I can not believe how dumb i was.

Yes - there is much in my husband to respect and admire. He is a good father. He is a good man. He has a good heart. He is just deeply deeply hurt, grieving. I have the strength and the patience to give him as much time as he needs.

At times I am overwhelmed - but I have a loving and supportive family around - parents and siblings. Friends. They know what I did. They love my H. They will give me the support and strength that I need to give him space and time to heal. They remind me of my purpose, my goal. They are their for my children. They will give him the support he needs - when he is ready to accept it. He isnt yet.

he has stated i ruined the fantasy - he was supposed to be there. He is angry he wasnt there.

I - am not willing to do that. I recognize the destruction that fantasy caused. It seriously messed with my head back then. I thought he COULDNT desire me without other men wanting me. I thought i wasnt good enough for him. In my mind, unless he saw other men wanting me - he didnt want me. I didnt realize how much he loved me and desired me on his own. The fantasy messed me up big time. Twisted how i thought of myself. it was not healthy.

loving anyway - what do you mean "You ARE wife, mother, writer, daughter, best friend...and adulteress. None of which are WHO you are."


Yes I see him new - this whole process has revealed myself to me (weakness and strengths) as well as him. He was this strong pillar of strong will to me - unbreakable (i thought). He was power to me - control - safety...except when he was angry. This vunerable side to him - confuses me honestly. He was confidence. Now - he only shows fear and hurt and pain and anger. Not to the boys. He has always been strong, playful and loving to my boys. He is an amazing dad. he was my biggest fan - now he is embarressed by me. He is thinking of switching jobs - for many reasons - but one is they know what i did there - and he wants a job where I can visit and he is not embarressed.

I can understand how it messed with your head and how you believed the things you believed then.

note i provide this info as an explanation on how i got so screwed up - i am responsible for my actions and for all the stupid decisions and selfish behavior that brought me to this place...it is more - a description of the road i took to destruction - not a justification for my horrible and henous behavior.

You dont have to explain that to me HW....You are doin the right thing now and that is what is important, you dont need to be so hard on yourself...

Humbled Wife, don't worry, I didn't take it as a justification.