Does anyone have any idea if i should publish on here the goodbye letter from WS to OW? i need to know what you guys think of the letter as it reading it makes me feel safe but is it a false sense of security as they still work together, also its so cruel i hate the OW but have never seen this hateful side of my husband.
Help!

Bh,

I'm going to read your H's thread and have a think about what you have said today. May I ask you not to post the letter until you get some more responses from me and other people? I really do not know what is best just now.

Responses are slow at the weekend because people are spending time with their families. Things really pick up on Monday evenings (our time). Please do not be discouraged and I'm sure more support is on its way.

Hi BH28

You are getting some great advice. I often find it hard to post on BS threads being FWW but he really really does need to change his job for exactly the reasons stated. And the night out thing is certainly a no.

I haven't seen your Hs thread yet, might try and find it

I'll be here, I'm quite often about at the w/e in the evening

ST

t/j ST - HI!! How are you and J?
replied on the thread you started for me....
W

I am not posting letter until im sure its the right thing i dont want to do stupid things that will cause harm, the idea of the letter is to understand further and if a future reconciliation is even possible as there is no sign WH will listen and change jobs right now so having read other posts of women who turned a blind eye to WH working with OW and got stung i dont want to find myself in that boat. Cant make him change jobs, or atleast dont know how to do that. He has no confidence in himself and it will take alot of ego stroking and me jobsearching for him before he will get off his butt and leave his current job, to be honest i dont have the energy to sort out his life for him again. Regards him posting on here the gig is up he knows i posted here and he knows i know he posts so we both know its all out in the open, i am making an effort not to read/interfere in his post as i dont think me sticking my nose in will help us. I think that if he can express himself on here honestly then thats the only way he will get help same way I have been honest on here as there is no point sugarcoating the situation and lying about this because no one gets help that way. I have sent him the following text (he is at work) clarifying my position

"Im not angry at u i was just saying that if you want to get help you need to reply to all the comments on your post honestly, including the ones u think are not relevant or stupid (he said he thinks some of the replyes he got were stupid) and say what you think even if it is that you think they are not relevant etc. The only way your going to get help is by being totally honest and not give replyes to please me or censure yourself because your scared im going to get angry"

So i made my position clear and told him i wont be reading his posts unless he comes to me for advice about something in post.
I dont care if he reads my posts as i dont hide anything what i feel is very clearly communicated to him regularly so its not a big deal. I dont know if my outlook on this is idealistic or stupid but saving my marriage and family is my priority and if this means that he has to get help too then so be it, really not having negative feelings about that. Am i being Dumb?

I have bought the saving your marriage book via Amazon as it will be delivered quicker, the book will be here by the 2nd of November and im going to start with it straight away.

U guys have to understand i have been in this position for a year and have not had any clear direction until i came accross this site so im grabbing this help/advise with both hands as i have tryed everything else so far. Also raising funds right now to get telephone councelling, have booked extra shifts with work so im deadly serious about moving on from issues and would like to thank you all for helping me despite my newbie status.

i think it is very wise to stay clear of each other threads.

IF you both want to and you certainly both seem to want to - you will be able to turn it around with the MB principles.

There is another couple of brits about who are doing a fab job at recovery - Serendipitous is ever hopeful that OW is going to move very soon - she lives next doorish and has been declared. If your H shows commitment to changing his work position then maybe Sere may be able to give you some help in coping with close proximity of OW in the meantime. (she's on her hols at the mo) . Her H is Billy Basset.

Once H changes jobs there will be no issue as OW works and lives in different town one hour drive away so no issue with bumping into her etc. Husband works in the store in that town so he commutes 1 hour each way everyday to work and back and it makes it hard for me to pop in at his job and monitor situation as so far away. He also works from 4pm till 1am, I work from 6am till 2pm but have driven myself to exhaustion waiting up for him everynight (with the hour drive he gets home at 2am) to make sure nothing is going on, then get 4 hours sleep and go to my own job. its mentally and phisically exhausting especially as when i get in from work the kids and housework begin and there is just no time to recover any sleep, this is been going on for a year so im exhausted. The only proximity issue is that they work together once thats over then no issue.

When your hubs' copy of Surviving An Affair" arrives, please go through it with him (or take turns reading the chapters & discussing them). The first part is a lot about "typical" affairs, while the second part is lots of practical advice for both the betrayed & wayward spouses. Our marriage counselor had us work through this ... I think it helped both of us immensely, not only in coming to terms with what I'd done, but in getting us both to change the way in which we relate to each other, to minimze the chances that this would ever happen again.

I think my good friend st means "has been declared bankrupt".

Or "declared insane", maybe.

BH, this is a really bad idea. You are feeding on the drama of the affair by thinking and acting like this. You are still caught up in thoughts about OW. I know thoughts about her are inevitable, but you must not act in ways that involve actual, practical, focusing on her. You and H need to cut this woman out of your lives completely. You, especially, need to do that for your mental health. And don't you see that it will be contact for your H? Contact sets his withdrawal back a good deal. How will you know if he sees her and thinks of what they had together? Why do you want to risk putting that in the forefront of his mind again?

You do not need to ruin the party for OW. It is a stretch that you will do that, and not without ruining the next few weeks for you in preparation, and having a miserable time at the party. You cannot imagine that you are going to be happy there, surely. You will watch every move that she makes, and spend every second hoping that she is watching your carefree abandon (you wish). Everyone else in the room will be watching both of you. This affair is just intrigue to many of your H's colleagues, and they can watch EastEnders for that. Are you sure you won't end up in the loo, in tears? Are you sure you won't ask our H to take you home early, or do anything else to be the subject of gossip on the Monday morning? Don't treat your life and marriage like a soap opera.

You do not need to show the world how strong you are as a couple. You need to become strong, which you are nowhere near now, and then live your lives together well.

Your priority now is to end all contact. Next is to spend more than 15 hours a week alone together. You need to read Dr Harley. You need to do the coaching. You have a lot of work to do, together. Spend that particular evening going out or staying in and being close. Don't waste your time and set your personal recovery back by putting yourself through a pointless ordeal. The party is entirely pointless, Bh.

1) I am sure that there is no reason why you can't coach together. I would imagine that Steve would want to speak to you separately first but after that...

2) I don't see why Steve would do that. He never said it to me and WS is living on a different continent. You two are both wanting to make it work.

3) Don't worry. Steve has heard it all before and will instinctively know what is the truth, I am sure.

Incidentally, you may not get Steve. The admin girls may assign you to Jennifer but I am sure that the advice will be equally valuable.

Hello everyone
Just an update, last night WH got in from work was in a good mood i was in a strange mood, i dont know why but i was feeling extreamley strong and non tolerant of any C@@p he was going to throw my way. He read and replyed to his own thread on downstairs PC while i was in bed with laptop looking at site help like the coaching etc. He came upstairs once he was done and we started to catch up on our own thought regarding MB and help both getting there. Conversation soon turned into an argument as he was sitting there making crappy excuses about job, his lack of visible emotions etc so I just stood up and said the following to him and this is word for word
"I dont understand how you can sit here and still think its acceptable to give me excuses, i have been suffering for a year and have devised my own fantasy coping mechanisms all on my own with no help or support from you, I have had enough, so im going to say this once and i really mean it. Im no longer interested in your excuses, i am no longer interested in your self justifications or empty promises because by making me listen to all of the above means that your getting me involved in sorting your ***edit*** out and im no longet prepared to do that. I want action and i want you to take responsibility for your actions and own them. End of, this is not negotiable, you are so close to killing the little love i have left for you and loosing your family and no exuses you can come up with will help you when your alone and unloved, I am sitting here in pain and your just making excuses, what action do you think you need to take to help me? do you think that excuses and justifications are going to make me feel better or make you feel better?"
Following this he shut the hell up and just looked at the floor, I told him thats how i feel that i was going to go have an apple then smoke a cigarette then i was going to go to sleep watching TV, i was calm i wanst crying and i want shouting. So after no reaction while i did all the above tasks as soon as i settled to watch TV he took remote from me and told me he was sorry (trust me getting that man to say sorry is equivalent to getting blood out of a stone) he said he should have cuddled me when i was crying earlier and that he wanted to but again didnt just do it and got bogged down with excuses. I told him what i needed from him when i am in pain and i explained to him in a way he says he can understand and he thanked me for that. I told him when im in pain i needed him to share my pain (my exact example was get on your knees and grovel, thats a way to show pain and humiliation that i understand) I told him it wasnt about having power over him or humiliating him but when im sitting there crying/ feeling ugly (I think i look ugly when i cry) and humiliated the simple gesture of him getting on his knees and sayning sorry it makes me that he acknowledges that im in pain and puts him in pain receptive mode etc as opposed to sitting oppesite me not knowing what to do or say and when he finally says something is just full of excuses.
I dont think you will all agree with my approach but thats what i feel i need to see from him its really not about humiliating him.
Regarding him changing jobs i am adamant that he has to do that under his own steam, because if i get involved im going to end up sorting it out for him nad im not his carer he needs to stand up on his own and sort out his carreer. In the past year I have looked up and given him details of jobs that would be still well paid and fit in with our family life and he didnt even bother looking into them so im not doing the hard work for him again he needs to do this on his own as a sign of committment to making our marriage work.
Over the next 2 days we have come up with a plan that gives him time us time off work together so we can catch up with all the changes happening to us. Its like we have been in hybernation for the year and now its time to wake up and go get the nurishment and excercise we need to survive.
His mum came by this morning showed her site, she was so supportive and caring because although his family is old fashioned in the sense that they do not show emotions they do have a heart of gold and his mum revealed that she has been concerned about the family but didnt want to interfere and is glad we are finally doing something about situation (I thought exposure of help would spur WH to stick to plans promised).
Im struggling with the 15 hours a week concept, we have 4 kids under 8 and a house full of pets (2 dogs, 8 puppies, 3 cats, fish, 2 hampsters, a turtle etc) so we spend all our time caring for kids and animals plus both work opposite shifts with only 1-2 hours to communicate see eachother a day. When we do get the occasional day off together its all about catching up with chores, bills, food and household shop. Its a total nightmare to try and get some space, we dont have anyone that helps with kids no one to babysit so we can go out socially together. WH told me that he wants to read Dr H book together he says he will be upset if i read it on my own so we are trying to work out an hour of peace and quiet together where we can read and discuss book when it arrives and i have promised not to read any of it without him.
When we do spend time together i think that we have a level of intimacy thats really amazing and that i am proud of, he is my best friend as well as my husband and i can talk to him about anything (womens issues icky embarassing stuff etc, he used to help me shave my legs when i was pregnant and couldnt reach them due to bump and happily cut his toenails because they get on my nerves when they scratch me during the night in bed (not in an icky sense in a tender confortable sense like monkeys grooming eachother in the jungle type of thing lol). Being Italian i was brought up in a way that a woman has to keep up appearances, never let her man see her without make up and this is a direct quote from my mother "if you dont paint your toenails how do you expect your husband to know hes in bed with a woman", i do look after myself and i do take care of the way i look and dress but i do it because i want to not because i have to please my man! infact when WH was having A i was the in the best shape i had been in years, was wearing suits to work and having my hair professionally done on a weekly basis, I had lost the baby weight etc, (OW short, very fat, spotty chin and face and brasts that reached her belly button with a wide gap between them so wide you can park a bus).
About Xmas party thats still something I have to do, its like a compulsinon, i wont cry in front of her no matter what happens, I have been fantasising about xmas party for a year and i dont know how to let go of that, I want to see her i want to be near her and destroy her like she has destroyed my family, and as far as him being near her, he has taken me to his work place when she has been on shift several times and the poor things was all over me as he was so concerned about what i was going through that he didt look her for a second, infact shes the one who run off crying into another male staff member acting like shes hurt at seeing me and WH together. Stupid attention seeking moron! I read in somewhere that in the olden days women used to be branded with a scarlet A and have their hair shaved off when they had A with married men, whos bright idea was to stop that tradition?

PS telephone coaching discussed and will be booked next week, im giving up smoking ( i smoke 2 packs a day now) and putting money saved towards coaching, so this is immediate way of releasing funds that i thinks is fair and healthy rather than dong extra shifts and not seeing kids/WH for days at at time.

OOPS sorry moderator didnt mean to use profanity, was quoting discussion, will not happen again

UPDATE/RANT

ArgHHHHH, its 3:30 am here and im sitting here soooo angry!!!!
WS was at work all day i was looking after kids, no communication while he was at work as was to busy doing a good job for the moronic company he works for.
Spent day with kids and just recovering from last nights argument. Nothing bad happened specifically, infact was happy to have some space from him and thinking about A. Was really enjoying catching up on other MB users stories and getting to know the history of members etc.

I have looked at the replyes WS has been getting on his thread and was very impressed with advise he has been getting etc, dont have any urges to interefere in his thread although not too happy with his level of honesty
"will start looking for job straight away" utter claptrap not even looked for a sec, been to work with OW 3 times since he supposedly realised that he has to have NC in order to save marriage.

Im so angry !!!!!! Then read his replyes to posts and his general MORONIC attitude, and just feel like exploding, THE MAN HAS NO BRAIN USEFUL CELLS OR DEPTH, he appears so soul-less!!!

Every time i see that i loose another bit of Love for him and trust me there isnt much love left to loose!!

Please someone help me cause i dont want to loose my family but I refuse to go on like this i really do.

Tonight as i sit here next to him sleeping like a baby all i can think about is that i want a Divorce and i want it now, I havent got anymore fight in me, I cant turn him into a human and i cant make him have a heart end of.

My kids DESERVE MUCH BETTER !!!!!!!!

Hi BH,

I understand everything you are saying about your love draining away. I agree with TA, who suggested that your H is choosing to put up walls around his feelings. I think he would feel something very quickly if you left him. I hope it does not have to get to that.

I don't think that your feelings will change until the job situation changes, and the ball is in his court on that. I do not think he should depend on a transfer when his record becomes clean in January. Surely it would take at least a month for something to come up. That means that you would be waiting a minimum of 3 months to see any movement. That is not good enough for you.

One of the finest posters here, tst, has posted to your H. He is a FWH who put his wife through false recoveries and eventually left her and their 5 kids. She went to Plan B (no contact at all with spouse while separated) and after a short time he went home. She imposed stiff conditions on his return, including a post-nuptual agreement to give her almost all their assets if they divorced because of his repeat adultery, and MB coaching. Later, they went to a MB residential weekend. He has had so much direct assistance from Dr Harley that he really understands the programme and can give very specific Harley advice. He is very good with WHs. He will stick with your H closely and give him strong talks and encouragement if your H keeps posting. However, your H's rather flippant attitude might make many people think he is not serious. Let's hope not.

Have you clicked the link to the coaching centre yet? It is on the welcome page to the forum. Please do this today.

It's one of the reasons why we have recommended you don't read his threads. Trust me - with people like Melody Lane and TST, he won't get by with slacking off. Reading his thread at this point is like cutting open your own wounds. He didn't do that to you - you did. He's still a wayward git. And will be until he gets that new job. You have to focus on you and what you can do to fix your side of the marital fence - reading his thread won't help you do that - it gets you caught up in all of the things HE'S done wrong and is doing wrong.

I agree with your comment and WH ha openly said that during the whole post A mess he has never felt that he is loosing me therefore and has blamed that on his lack of emotional awakening. He knows me very well as i have been hurt in the past by friend/family once i cut someone off emotionally there is no going back, he has witnessed this over the years so understands i have very effective cut off mechanism and therefore when i threaten separation he gets scared and does attemt to sort things out however this is always short lived and full of empty comments with no actions to back them up.

Im trying to learn the quote oprion in forum so will need to carry on reply on separate post

Continued....

I have read and now finally understand the plan A/B concept, exposure, LB's and the concepts of MB. I have literally been glued to PC reading other members posts and trying to learn as much as i can from them (one in particular that had me up all night compelled to read was Not2fun, that woman is my idol cant beleive her rollercoaster).

I have a few comments re Plan A /B etc:

I am proud do say although i wasnt aware of plan A or this site at the time of A discovery i did follow plan A exactly (give or take a few LB's along the way on angry days) I comforted, wasnt needy, met his EN fully, listened to WS while he was in total fog and much more, thats what helped him stay in the mariatal home despite him being a runner in every single other aspect of life.

I am thinking about plan B but need to really understand it can anyone summarise it for me? Link on side of page ok but not clear enough for me.

Exposure- Im well on top of that one i think even our postman knows lol, Exposure of A in my case was immediate to all and this really did help wake up WH from fantasy of A , basically in short when i asked how he was going to explain OW to his parent when he was in fog he actually beleived that they would welcome her with open arms if he introduced her 6 months after we Divorced etc. with exposure he got told by parents the what would ACTUALLY happen had he brought OW home to them etc (basically they would never accept her etc), so i am great beleiver in exposure and in my case the above was just the tip of the icebergh as far as the amount of wake up calls it gave WS when exposure happened. LOVE EXPOSURE, it was a marriage saver for me and cant reccomend it enough.

OK so thats where I stand regarding MB principals. And have clicked read and discussed with WH telephone coaching with Steve, any idea how long the wait is for appointments? havent requested appointment yet as waiting for finances to come through to pay for session.
SAA book ordered saturday and awaiting delivery.

Job wise I WILL NOT TOLERATE IT TILl JANUARY!! No way! he has to search and find job Now!

Regardig WS posts / thread....

Ok so I was a good girl and did not look interfere with WH recovery until WH told me he was being totally floored by MB members and their comments and he was getting overwhealmed by amount of questioning so yes curiosity got the best of me and i looked. I didnt interfere despite ovelwhealming urge to shout abuse at him in his thread page so im gonna give myself pat on back for not doing that (and beleive me people im an emotional person with no control over myself when hurt/ angry so restraining myself is a big deal.


I DO trust MB members on here as read enough to know they mean business so despite me being chronic control freack i have seen enough to know that WS will be getting appropriate comments guidance on here and will do my best from today to avoid interfering with that.

Udate on today.......

Had little sleep and woke up in tears after nightmare (dreamt WH A was ongoing with OW). WH woke up with me, told him was fed up as he isnt taking MB seriousely enough and that replyes closed and very flippant so either sort that out or give up on MB and just get on with separation. WH expalined he was overwhealmed by replyes at 2am and with lack of sleep etc. Reminded him i not interested in excuses as i havent exactly slept much lately but im answering/communicating on here appropriately etc. WH said will try review his comments/thread once he has had some sleep and see if that helps him absorb informaion on there. I went back to sleep as exhausted i beleive WS went back on MB.
Woke up 6 hours later and here i am.

Emotionally - Recharged follwing decent sleep
Patience - Recharged following decent sleep
Communicaton with WS - Minimal so far due to decent sleep
Thoughts on Divorce - havent had many yet.
Anger - Ongoing (no amount of decent sleep tackles that one)
Overall Summary - Feeling ok so far but then i have only been awake an hour.

Pretty typical...Are you feeling like divorce would relieve the pain/anger? Are you in an at fault state? DUDE