TRUE DAT!!!

I nominate this for Post of the Year.

I was definitely a doormat...I would put up a weak fight to begin with, but would end up rolling over and being a doormat.

The norms and culture today brainwash men into being passive doormats, and very few are willing to stand up for themselves for fear of labeled 'abusive' or 'controlling'...as too many women carelessly through that abuse/controlling label around whenever they don't get their way. However, if you men were to just sit around and whine 'woe is me' regarding the culture brainwashing, eventually the pendulum will swing the other way and we will have a large percentage of men with that 'empowerment through victimhood.'

Men need to re-learn to stand up for themselves...with RESPECT for others.

LostBoy,

I am with you. I was the same. My WW actually bent over backwards to try to meet my ENs, but I was withdrawn. This led to her having EA. Now that I've been looking back though, I see that she really wasn't meeting my big ENs and I doormatted and ended up 'spoiling' her.

My WW actually told me she would 'walk all over me' just to try to get a reaction from me.

Now that I have this knowledge and see things for how they really were, it's hard to make demands because I'm just starting to Plan A her. What a mess.

Mel, this is my dad to a T.....How much would you charge to help him???.....I would pay biggie bucks for that one two....

In this country at least (England), a woman (Erin Pizzey) started the shelter movement on her own. The first women's shelters were entirely run by women volunteers. Why haven't men done the same with men's shelters in your country (or mine)?

Do women receive different sentences for abuse and murder of kids and the elderly? If so, why haven't men campaigned against this?

Women campaigned to change the way the rape allegations and trials were conducted in this country. They campaigned to challenge the way "diminished responsibility" and "just provocation" were interpreted by courts and juries. You might not like the result of those changes, but why aren't men mounting vigorous campaigns against the unequal treatment of male abusers and paedophiles?

What are men doing to change the gender bias in law and in society generally, apart from merely whingeing about it (as with the original post here)? If it's true, get off your arses and change it.

I agree.

This culture is sick w/ its PC way of trying to shame men from being what is BEST about them! ...Being what they were created to be! MEN!!!!

It's no wonder their women are running over them.

It seems to me that the victim feminism that is being criticised by men is also being adopted by them.

Men do not have to be victims, and victimhood is not an enviable characteristic to adopt.

Maybe they think since it seems to have worked for women, it will work for them.......

Yes, I would like to ask for help from you.

I won't bash MB, My marriage problems would have been averted by my knowing MB concepts in advance, because I wouldn't have married my W if I knew what I know now about her and me. But instead of fantasizing about what could have been, the truth is that I am now married and we have three children 12, 8, &2. I am committed to these little ones as they are blameless in all of this. Since my W cannot support them by herself, and she has no way to get a job that will support herself and them, I will never abandon her for the sake of my own EN's. I will just continue to support her financially and she will be the SAHM for the kids. I can't take care of the kids by myself or else I would do so.

I felt hope from Harley's concepts... because I felt that MB would help me get my EN's met along with my wife's EN's. Instead I am coming to conclude that it's not working. The only part that worked is the part that stopped the EA. My W is now getting her EN's met, and I am left with the same impression of my M that I had before MB... which is, that my W will not meet my EN's and I might as well accept the fact.

But then my TAKER comes out and demands relief. I do confess that I think about D as a way to free myself, perhaps then I would be free to find another person who could or would meet my EN's? Perhaps I would be a happier person and have more life satisfaction overall.

Harley's work suggests that I must supply dynamic conversation and whatever other EN's my W requires or else she will have another EA. If I neglect my W's EN's the way she neglects mine, then she will, without reservation or compunction, seek to have the needs met outside the marriage as she has already done. This would likley result in separation and/or divorce, and would bring pain and suffering to the children which is not fair. Thus I will pay tribute like paying money to a Mob boss, and thus help avoid greater injury to my children by supplying these EN's. But even if I do supply the EN's, it will only make things stay the same and won't ever make my EN's met the way Harley promised. Try it for 6 months, Harley says. Go ahead and starve emotionally, it's OK. You should give your wife her EN's even if you dont' get yours. If that doesn't work, try it again for another year or so - maybe two. In the meantime, don't you dare look or think about that pretty woman who shares your interests and who might actually want to meet your EN's. If you do, then you are cruel to your poor wife who only wants to have conversation and basic human dignity. If you supply this, Harley says, you will have your own EN's met too. HOGWASH, HARLEY. And, rather naiive for someone with as many years experience and training as you have.

Skip this paragraph unless you want to hear more of my Harley-complaints. But I would like to see an article by one of the Harleys entitled "Why Men Leave Women" (instead of the opposite). He speaks of men's selfish and insensitive behavior of seeking recreational companionship outside the marriage (i.e, one of the articles about the wife being left home with the kids while he bowls or plays softball or whatever). He doesn't speak to the man being a victim of emotional abuse through neglect of his EN's. It would be one thing if my own W didn't know about my EN's, but she quite smart and has a Masters and has read MB information and material, thus the excuse "well I just didn't know what your EN's were", cannot be used. I realize an article title like "Why Men Leave Women" that appropriately blames the wife doesn't have as much sizzle and hence never makes it into the marketing. Much easier to blame the man. We hear the situation characterized as a sex-crazed selfish man who is out sniffing around for someone new all the time and finally lands someone. Harley's work squarely focuses on men's mistakes, men's neglect, men's proactive action to seek "something extra" and "cheat" on the spouse. But he doesn't speak of the woman's neglect and refusal to supply recreational companionship. I realize I'm poking at his francise and not at you forum members specifically.

MarshMallow, no she won't go to a MB weekend. Her attitude uis characterized by the fact that "we can't right now, uh, no one to watch the kids". "Uh, well it's just so expensive". "Uh, well, I don't know, it seems a bit extreme". Or "Let's just try things on our own." Then when I bring up pains, problems, suffering or starvation, it's "you're really hitting me hard all the time" or "why are you so critical"? "I can't change all at once, you know." Or "our children are small, I'm trying to focus on them right now". Or "I'm just so tired, can't we just be normal"?

She was caught in an EA 3 months ago, (EA, according to Harley, by my neglect of her basic EN's. I admit I was as frustrated as I am now, and stopped trying in the marriage. I thought then that things would just be stable with neither one of us getting our EN's met (boy was I wrong, she engaged in an EN and demanded a separation, just at that moment found my computer open with all of my posts from MB forum and suggesttions on "how to snoop" etc.. She was shocked at how much I knew and how prepared I was. I think today that she hates many of the underpinnings of MB because she says she was planning to end the EA anyway and it was ripped from her just as she was ready to set it down.

You people taught me to snoop and as a result I found out the depth of it before it got too far. I had Plan A'd the hell out of the situation and now today we are back me supplying some EN's that I wasn't before. FWW stands against several of the core concepts such as one spouse working to save the M, thinks this is "manipulation and controllingness" and doesn't get it that my Plan A'ing her ended the affair. While she will read anything I ask, it's as if it doesn't ever change her behavior. Like there is a filter there that looks for some part of the whole that can be rejected... then throws out the whole message as tainted. Example is WW inflicting pain on BS during EA. "Oh, so Harley says that an A is the most intense pain anyone can endure?? Huff... I doubt it... how do they know anyway???".

One thing remains clear. She is neglectful of my EN's and I see no change to this. In order to protect my children from her cruelty of a potential EA, A, or S&D, I must continue to meet her basic EN's much like a court jester who entertains the Queen. Perhaps this is how some women feel when they are married to an abusive man who pays the bills for the children. She supplies him sex (or other EN), and he remains the sleeping giant. Well I just hope she remains the sleeping queen.

You certainly can understand why my mind wanders toward some future when the children are grown and self-sufficient so that I can be free. I think it's OK to think about a future where I get my ENs met from someone else. I can imagine this happening and am suffering from some attraction to a nice woman who I fantasize about meeting my EN's and marrying her. Funny... I've met the woman for a total of 10 minutes and like some adolescent crush, am projecting ahead to a life of satusfaction and joy with her or someone like her. Perhaps this is an indication of how starved I am for EN fulfillment - some bank teller smiles at me and I spend the day thinking about whether she will be available in 10 or 20 years. I know Harley and many others say it's as bad to have a mental affair with someone but I do feel quite powerless when my mind wanders to this woman and the next time I can be with her platonically. I will never engage in infidelity but yes there are mental images of someone else. Thinking about someone else to meet my EN's fills me with a lightness and relief that you can't imagine, like water to a thirsty person in the desert. I can hear Melody's fingers starting on the keyboard... such a relationship would be based in lies, dirty lies!! And you would be drinking from the toilet!! Well, Mel, at least I wouldn't die of thirst.

I also think about winning the lottery too, and splitting the winnings with my FWW so she can have money to supply the children and I can have freedom. Perhaps, too, she will have a nice juicy EA or A with a rich guy who can take care of her and our children financially as well as I can. Then I would gladly and happily kill off and burn these marriage bonds and dance for joy when the ashes scatter and dissapate in the wind.

-Bother.

Put money aside for it. Find a sitter. Tell her she has no more excuses.

This is a longer version of your first post.

""so she can have money to supply the children and I can have freedom.""

I believe we can now see the true bother peeking out here.

Oh, you're good, Kirk!

This is a very UNTRUE statement........according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics of Criminal.....

90% of all sexual predator's arrested are MEN....fact

In those 90%, 60% of the men are given probation or light sentencing.

In retrospect, of the 10% of the women predators, they stats are the same....60% of the time they are given probation or light sentencing.

not2fun

No, not dude. I don't want to type in 0ld username for fear of computer searches that can reveal this new thread and new user name. I was a very infrequent user anyway and unlikley you will know me. I had some posts before the "wipe out" of posts, but started and stopped a few times. I like what I'm seeing here and will be checking out the sites mentioned.

I would like to add this.....

In a NIBRS statistical report, a study was done from 1991 to 1996. The finding were that of all reported sexual abuse crimes reported, 96% of the predators were male. In these cases, convictions only happened 26% of the time....(beyond PATHETIC... ). They had no data on what the ratio of those convictions between males and females.....


not2fun

Why aren't women doing it, as well?

No, he has too much candlepower.

Not that much candlepower, though.

Z,

Where are you getting this info??....I cannot seem to find it anywhere.....I'm sorry to be a stickler about this HOWEVER, when it comes to Sexual Abuse (which the definition of a pedophile is someone sexually excited by children......not the case for MOST sexual abuse instances) I have a soft spot for......

not2fun

I haad all these feelings , as well. Any suggestion that we get help was met with derision and anger.
I got out, as the result of her serial cheating and am thnkful that it got me off my [censored] and away from that abuser.
I met a woman who was just great, nothing like my X and we had a nice relationship. I was amazed, as I had never been treated so well during my marriage.
If she won't change and get help, you may have to get out. The kids are not seeing a healthy relationship and these types of people, like your wife, really get nasty when the kids get older and start rebelling. You could be their safe haven, away from her.
Mine are already strating to migrate toward me.