How's it going, Brae ?

Hello everyone,

Sorry, I have not been around for a while, I really felt like everything was getting on top of me and had to remove myself from here for a while.
I really do appreciate everyones help, in particular BobP, ML and BigK, but just felt like I needed a break.

Anyway, an update.

Plan B worked, or something did anyway, it may not have been the greatest Plan B the world has ever seen but it was pretty good and I know some of you may not believe it but I did go very dark.

The A is over and WW is no longer living with OM.
We have kind of started dating again and doing things together, going for meals, days out etc, just fun things. If something funny or important happens I am the first person she rings or she will text me

WW says that she wants to make a go of things and does want to move home but feels that she is not yet ready, she says she is 99.9% certain she can and will come home but she cannot be absolutely certain she can do it. She says she feels more comfortable every day but feels like she is still waiting for something and still needs time, she feels kind of like she needs someone to flick a switch and then she will be back.
She says that since she left she has taken control of her life and does not want to lose that control.

I feel all I can do is carry on doing what I am doing which is really just a Plan A and having fun together and see what happens.

I feel like she has been having a mid-life crisis and maybe is just starting to come out of it, my old W is back, the woman I fell in love with is there everyday.

The problem is I dont want to keep waiting forever, I have been ready to throw the towel in on many occassions and just when I thought I was ready to end it all and file for divorce the A ended and while I am seeing progress I am trying to keep going.

So there is the update, sorry it has taken so long, any advice or pearls of wisdom from the old timers would be gratefully received.

Brae

braeworth, I am so sorry this has not progressed. Have you considered filing for divorce and moving on? The time for Plan A is long over. If she doesn't know by now that you are willing to meet her needs in a marriage, then she will never know. She is in Plan cakeeating. Plan B is supposed to end when the affair is over and when the WS commits to the marriage. She has not committed to anything.

It sounds to me like she has given up on the marriage but just wants to keep you around as a sideline guy. That will not lead to a marriage.

She is just using you, braeworth.

I agree with MelodyLane (no surprise there, as I don't think I've ever disagreed with her). It sounds to me as though only half of Plan B has worked. The A is over, but WW is still nowhere near getting off the fence. As long as you fulfill her EN even part way, she has no motivation or cause to stay or leave.

Hi Brae.

Your loneliness and hope has caused you to sell your heart back to your wife far too cheaply. You have discounted admission, so that it costs your WW zero commitment in order to partake of the benefits of having you as her H.

You have bought the uncommitted, unsatisfying sham of a marriage you currently have at the price of your heart and your dignity. I hope you're happy with that deal, really. You may well be. I would not be.

Brae, the only way to fix this mess and to give your marriage any chance at all now is to plan B darker than a black hole until your WW either commits to rebuilding your marriage or either of you chooses a divorce.

Tell her " I will not allow myself to be an option that you can sample and choose. You know who I am, what I am capable of, what I have committed to do in order to improve our marriage

I will have no contact with you until you decide to fully commit to rebuilding the damage YOU did to our lives and our marriage. You already know I am willing to do that, but not at the price of my dignity.

Contact me only through my intermediary. You must do what you think is right. I am. "

And go black without any hope of contact. Move on in all but fidelity.

Thats the only chance your marriage has Brae. What you have right now is no marriage, and is not sustainable.

All blessings

Bob

* I do not expect that you will agree with me.

What Bob said.

She's not 99.9% certain - now that has me LMAO. Brae you are being used. She is just hedging her bets and waiting for some other guy or the original OM to come back and take her again.

This is INSANE. It's time for Plan D.

Brae,

Good to see you back. Glad the A is over. Sorry that things are the way they are. Ok, got the easy stuff done, now for some things for you to consider.

I am not sure about plan B in this situation, but I am sure that plan A is not the right place for you. Plan A requires that you put your taker on hold and only use the giver part of you. This will lead to resentment, and as BobP says:" selling your heart too cheaply."

You should avoid love busters, you should try to meet her needs when you are around her, and you should continue to work on YOUR shortfalls whatever they are.

But, you are missing something here, at least I think you are. I think Mel and others are reacting to it but they have done actually told you what it is. Your W is still thinking like a WS. Her mind is still focussed only on her and her happiness. Her mind is still hedging her bets, and yet she is the one that failed not you. You are NOT hedging your bets and you should be.

Let's look at what you said about her

Let's start with the control issue. She left before and you could not, would not, and did not stop her. She has had total control of her life and your life. I would say given her performance at the controls she needs to rethink her wanting to control her own life. She needs strong input because she is a failure at this point.

Is is NOT 99.9% there. This statement is about as useful as a 3 stall restroom that is 70% occupied. It is cake eating because she is still thinking like a WS. It is all about her.

She says she is waiting for something to happen. This is the "magical" thinking that all WS's use. "Something will happen to make all of the harm I have done go away and I will feel all better about everything." What a crock!!!

One final thought. Marriage is about sharing life. It is about sharing joys, disappointments, love, caring, it is NOT about control. It is about sharing. As long as she is thinking about control, she is thinking like a WS and your marriage has NO, NONE, NADA, ZIP chance of being successful, even if it endures.

My thoughts on the matter is step back. You don't need to be with a woman that is focussed on control. I don't think plan B makes sense because frankly the affair is over, and plan B doesn't address Wayward thinking. She has to address Wayward thinking.

You simply don't want to be with a woman that is worrying about "control" in a marriage. She cannot and should not be putting value into independent behavior IF she wants to be married, and frankly you should not accept a woman that wants you committed loving, support, but wants to be independent and with no accountability for her past actions, her present actions, nor her future actions. When someone says they want "control of their lives, they are saying "I don't want to be accountable."

You have some decisions to make and the major is what sort of woman do you want to be married to. Your W is NOT offering a very attractive package right now and she should know that you don't find her focus on control to be very alluring.

Those are my thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL !

I trust all is well with you, sir ?

Great post from you to Braeworth. I jut wanted to post you the advice from Dr Harley I was following when I advised him to re-establish plan B.

Plan B is not ONLY to help end an affair, but also to encourage the WS to recommit to the marriage. Only half the job has been done here. Clearly Brae can divorce without guilt now, however I think a brutally dark plan B may well cause his WW to consider her situation with reality biting through her sense of entitlement. If she does not decided to recommit to their marriage Brae will be best prepared for D via plan B also.


Dr Harley says :

BobP,

Good to hear from you again as well. I hope all is going well. I don't think the good Dr. and I disagree. I think Brae would be making a mistake to take hiw WW back before they agree on a plan of recovery as well and my admonition is that the Wayward thinking be gone. It is not.

You may be absolutely right that a very dark plan B would do the trick and clear the fog. But, Harley points out that plan B is always risky so while I tend to tell him " go dark, stay dark, and find a woman that understands marriage." That would not be very MB in its approach and actually not very useful as he can make his decision to leave or stay on his own.

I do think interaction where she seeks him out rather than him seeking her would be best. Just my opinion. But, I do agree something has to happen to clear the fog and certainly plan B offers that possibility.

I will go further on my advice and that if I were him I would point out that her focus on control and independent actions are NOT going to restore the marriage. He cannot change her perhaps but he can state what he finds attractive and not attractive.

You may well be right as I believe you know Brae better than I and have spoken with him right? I do hope he listens carefully to your words and your reasoning.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL !

I agree with you fully, its just that in my experience only;
1) credible threat of divorce and
2) carbon dark plan B

...have any effect on the kind of entitlement-fuelled personality as manifested by Braes WW here.

If it were me , I'd file intending a D and see if WW is willing to pull out all the stops to prevent it. If she didn't I'd be well rid IMO.

It just seems to me that WW has chosen to forsake DD, and you will do more to hurt her by exposing DD to WW's dysfunctional ways.

WW will simply try to poison DD's mind by sending her messages like, "I love you but I don't love BS, and I'm doing what I think is best for me." Trust me, DD doesn't want to hear that. Doesn't NEED to hear that.

braeworth, BobPure is right, only half the job has been done here. By coming out of Plan B with no plan in place, absolutely no committment to the marriage, you have signalled to your wife that you will take her back on any condition, no matter what. You are in the same spot as you were when you first arrived here years ago. Your life is still at the mercy of a detached, emotionally dysfunctional wayward spouse.

That is not conducive to recovery to send such a message to a WS. She has been taught that you will meet her needs under any condition so she doesn't have to commit to the marriage. She doesn't have to reciprocate. She has no motivation to change whatsoever. Divorce would be preferable to living a life of limbo where your wife just uses you when the spirit moves her. That is not a marriage, braeworth. That is just allowing yourself to be used. Is that what you want?

braeworth, please read Dr. Harley's quote posted by BobPure carefully:

Thanks everyone for your posts, some real food for thought!!

Great posts JL and BobP. I do not remember seeing the stuff from Dr Harley about ending Plan B too early.

We were heading for D and that may still be the outcome.
There is definitely some fence sitting going on, she says she really does love me and want to make a go of it but is worried that if she comes back things will go back to how they were and to what made her unhappy in the first place.

As I said, in many ways my W is back when we are together and I can see progress but I think that if she has not fully commited and returned home by the start of the New Year then I will go dark again, file for divorce and move on.

Thanks again for everyones support

Brae

Thanks Mel,
I think we cross posted.
I dont remember seeing that about coming out of Plan B too early.
As usual I am receiving some great insight and thoughts from you vets on here.

I told WW last night that I did not thnk we were going to make it and we were reaching the end of the road. She said she thought we would make it, loved me and did not want me out of her life. I just said that only she could change that now and left it at that

Brae

She is happy with the status quo, braeworth, so she has no reason to change anything. You are the one with the problem, not her. She has you on the sidelines as the fallback guy and can throw you just enough crumbs every now and then to keep you at her beck and call while she lives her single life. But she is not interested in a marriage. Her actions speak the truth.

Thanks Mel,
I was ready for D then the A ended. WW asked to talk and told me that she loved me and wanted to make a go of things, maybe I should have insisted at that point that she fully recommit and move home but I thought it was too early for both of us and I needed time to adjust and gather my thoughts.

Maybe she is just throwing me crumbs but I have made it very clear to her that time is running out and I dont see what we have as a marriage and things need to change very very soon.

We will see what the next 3 or 4 weeks bring and then it may well be time to move on.

Thanks for your support

Brae

braeworth, I just want to emphasize that you are in the same position today as you were 3 years ago. Your marriage is no closer to recovery than it was then.

I am not sure what your wife meant when she said she "wanted to make a go of things" but it apparently did not mean MARRIAGE. It meant keeping you on the sidelines while she lives a single life.

Your biggest problem in all this time has been your focus on her WORDS, rather than her actions and I still see that same mistake being made today. She says she wants to "make a go of it" yet she is living a single life and is not interested in your marriage. Unless her words are backed up with action, they are meaningless. Please keep this in mind.

And also keep in mind that she might be throwing you some crumbs just so you will include her in Christmas celebrations. That is pretty typical.