Sickoflimbo, I will check out your thread. Thanks for hooking me up.

If anyone has more experience with the effects of exposure and children I would welcome that.

Fred_in_VA, I wanted to send you a personal message but you have them disabled in your profile, but please let me say a special thank you to you. When I am able, I will offer support to others like you have to me. I feel your pain, and I know you feel mine.

mfoss, I think PMs are disabled system-wide. I know I haven't made any settings changes in that regard.

I am gratified that you found something I said helpful. There is no need to thank me, though. This forum's purpose is to ask for, receive, and give help. Often, we don't know which we're doing at any given time. I am a believer in "paying it forward," though. MB has discussions about our Givers and Takers. I came here very much a Taker. Turning me into a Giver is part of the healing process, I think.

Good luck to you, my friend. You got an earlier start on MB than I did. I fear my road is a much tougher one as a result (Zelmo might tell me that's a GOOD thing).

(You know, the ironic thing is that I found this site very early on after D-Day. I just never bothered to check into the forums until I'd bought SAA and realized it and the site were by one and the same Dr. Harley. By then, I'd LB'd big time and may have ruined any chances of recovering my M).

Fred_in_VA, funnily I almost mentioned "paying it forward" in my message to you. I deleted it as less is more in forums, but funny.

I find it hard not to say thank you in every post, and feel absolute gratefulness towards every poster in my thread.

PMs have been disabled due to the nature and vulnerabilities of the situations on the forums. Makes sense.

"Told them that daddy didn't always do a good job of taking care and loving mommy although he loves mommy very much."

Great job at teaching the COM how to justify having an affair.

"Told them that mommy has new friends that daddy doesn't like."

Cut through the baloney, lessening the impact of having a boyfriend by lumping in the OM with BH not liking mommy's other friends, and making BH sound unreasonable by being mad at for mommy having friends. Kids are taught it's good to have friends.

Why doesn't BH like mom's friends?

Did friends enable the affair, support the affair?

Do kids know why BH does not like these friends?

Do the kids know these friends help mom to cheat on dad?

Do the kids understand why BH does not want mom to see these friends anymore?

"One of them is a boyfriend and you aren't supposed to have boyfriends when you are married because you promised yourself to just your partner. Explained that daddy and mommy are trying to fix it as best we can"

Have you told them that WW will not go NC with the OM/boyfriend and those other friends?

Hi mfoss,

I have only read a few posts on your thread. Mel asked me to come help you with exposing to your children.

I did see that your children are 8 and 11. That is plenty old enough to know why their family is crumbling. My children were ages 6, 8, 11, 13, and 17 when I expose to ALL of them about their daddy's affair.

It was the absolute most painful part of the affair for me.

But it was the most necessary...

for several reasons.


1. I would not have my relationship with my children based on lies. Making up some story about why daddy is leaving means I have to lie. And since children ask questions, I would have to lie some more. If I expect my children to be honest with me, I have to earn their respect by being honest with them. Their lives were turned upside down. They NEEDED to know they could count on someone to be honest.

2. I didn�t want them to ever have the chance to think that their family crumbling was their fault. If children don�t have the truth, their puzzle pieces don�t fit. They are trying to understand, but CAN�T because they are building the wrong puzzle. As BS�s we all know what happens when people lie to us about our lives�we begin to question ourselves. What did I do wrong? Is it my fault? How do I fix this? Why is my gut telling me something isn�t right? Telling the truth to our children prevents them from ever thinking their family�s destruction had anything to do with them. Keep the fault where it belongs�on the wayward spouse. Do NOT allow your children for one minute to think their bare ANY responsibility for this.

3. I was not going to protect FWH from the consequences of his choices and actions. He needed to SEE up close and personal what his choices looked like. He needed to see through the faces of his children what his choices looked like. It stripped away his little fantasy. He thought he could control what the children thought. He tried to spin the truth with them. He tried to manipulate them into thinking what he wanted them to, and he outright lied directly to them. BUT BECAUSE I HAD ARMED THEM WITH THE TRUTH ALREADY, they knew they could trust their gut when it told them daddy was lying. My FWH tells me now that, although he was FURIOUS with me for telling them, it was one of the most important actions I took. Their questions to him were relentless and haunted him.

4. I would be darn sure that my children would not hear the truth from someone who did not love them and were only trying to hurt them. My FWH learned of his mom�s affair from a kid at school who happened to be the son of the OM. He told my FHW in a very cruel way, announcing that they were going to be step-brothers. Can you imagine the SHOCK? What a horrible way for a child to experience D-day!! So much better would it have been for my FWH if that information would have come from a loving, compassionate parent whose only concern was what was best for him. THAT�S what people leave their children open to when they choose to lie to their children about the affair. AND what does it do to YOUR credibility with YOUR children, when their learn the truth from someone other than YOU.

It is good and right to tell your children the truth. It is always wrong to lie�always.

mfoss,

I told my 6 and 8 year-olds..

Daddy and mommy promised to love only each other in the special way that married people do. Daddy has chosen to have a girlfriend now and that is not OK when people are married. This hurts mommy very, very much; and until daddy stops this, he cannot live here at home with me.

I explained the same things in more adult terms for my 11, 13 and 17 year olds.

I answered ALL questions honestly and age appropriately. They knew they could trust me, and that was a critical foundation for them during that time in their lives when all was crumbling around them.

I asked them recently how they felt about being told the truth back then. They looked at me like I was crazy...they wondered what the "other" option was. It appauled them when I told them that some people don't tell their children the truth about affairs. They could not understand why someone would keep that from their children.

I followed up with my children in the months after D-day. When they would tell me how much they were hurting or why does it feel like daddy doesn't love us or why is daddy lying, I responded with things like:

Daddy loves you as best he can right now, but he is blinded by his sin and cannot yet see how much you are hurting. One day, his eyes will be opened to all the destruction around him and he will be so very sorry for how much he hurt you.


These types of HONEST communication open the doors for us as parents to teach right from wrong, consequences from harmful choices, our wrong actions can hurt more than just ourselves.

My children have learned so many valuable lessons all because we kept it honest around here. When my FWH returned home, we continued the honesty with our children, and they have learned about grace, forgiveness, healing...and MB.

You didn't actually says these things to your children, did you?

My gosh!!!

Talk about confusing.

Children SEE what you don't tell them. Then they HEAR what you tell them.

And things don't match up.

So they are left

CONFUSED.

Stop this nonsense.

Be that safe place for them. That one person they can hold on to. Not just another person trying to spin things to make themselves feel better.

SexyBear,

Would you recommend anything differently if wayward was still living together all in same house and WW was SAHM? That's my situation and I think I didn't do a good job last night of exposing my kids. The Road gave me a good critique and I would appreciate your guidance too.

Thanks

sexymamambear and mel, thanks for the consideration and info. I can't express how much information helps me, I am wired that way.

I obviously have not done it yet. Circumstances have been very difficult in terms of getting the kids alone, but that could really be seen as excuse making. I feel I am going to "ruin their day", and my natural instinct as a parent is to protect them from harm. But the truth is, harm has been initiated by WW.

It feels like this is going to be one of the harder parts.

It is funny how some of my instincts are to be fair to WW. I realize my first post was exactly about the tension between taking aggressive action and yet not love busting. A confusing and conflicting set of motivations.

And of course my love for my kids, and not wanting to hurt them. They have been hurt already though, and they are going to be hurt more.

I also feel that members of my support system will look poorly upon me doing this, and I fear losing some support from that. But, these people are not experienced in successful recovery, and are probably indirectly enabling the A in all sorts of ways.

As am I if I don't tell the kids.

I have spoken to a couple of people who have gone through this situation, hoping they would be good people to relate to my situation. In some ways they have been, but they have also not succeeded in saving their marriages, so their advice is coming from that position, and therefore not sound for me.

I struggle with getting advice from people, as they all have elements of good advice, mixed with advice that does not support restoring the M. If I am serious about saving the M, I need to listen to people who have succeeded in doing that, not failed.

I also suppose that I am influenced by some of the garbage the WW has been saying, like, I almost left when X or Y, blah blah blah. She did not leave then, because she was thinking clearly, and not in a fog. If only we could have gotten help.

She also expresses a lot of concern and love for me, which is obviously confusing. And I fear telling the kids is going to threaten that (and it will in the immediate term), but I need to realize that I am making a trade off.

I find it interesting how much I am motivated to be nice and fair. The truth is, I need to accept that I am not being mean or unfair but being honest, even if there is hurt.

What a clown show.

I am also realizing that we have to tell the kids something at some point, and there is no benefit to me to do that with WW, as she is fogged, and will wrap all sorts of extra stuff around that.

Also, if my support system says to me "I don't agree with what you did", I can say, "do you agree with what she did"? If you are extending her any consideration, please do the same for me. And through my other actions, they will see my unwavering support, care and love for my children. This won't likely convince them I am doing the right thing, but it makes me more comfortable.

I'm wondering if I should say anything to the stepchildren? They live with WW's XH and WW did her best to keep them distanced from me (I helped, of course). I wrote a couple of exposure letters to her XH, but have not spoken with the kids.

I know she talks and texts with them -- almost daily. They know there is an OM. I don't know if XH has told them the details (he's married, has kids, etc.).

This has to have an impact on them. WW already left them once, and now she's demonstrating the same irresponsible behavior again. I just don't know if it's my place to tell them.

Not trying to t/j, but how does one tell stepchildren?

I am not sure what t/j means, but I think the answer is yes, you tell them.

I just learned: t/j = "threadjack."

Actually, my question was not if, but "how?"

SMB, thanks so much for posting to mfoss! Those are excellent posts.


Her concern and love are words and not actions. She is abandoning her family for an adulterous affair, mfoss. That is not "love." What I think you really mean is that she is saying some nice words to you in order to get you to cooperate with her destructive behavior. But if you cooperate with someone whose goal is the destruction of your marriage, you will have a destroyed marriage. This is why it is important to look at her actions and not her words.


There is nothing "fair" about cooperating with the destructive plans of a wayward, mfoss. You should continue to be nice, but if you want to save your marriage, you have to STAND UP FOR IT. Being nice does not = rolling over. BIG DIFFERENCE. It is "nice" to stand up for your marriage and your children's family.


mfoss, keep in mind, that Dr. Bill Harley is a psychologist who has been doing this for years and it is HIM that recommends telling the children. Adultery is what harms children, not telling them the truth. Lies poison children, not the truth. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies.

I am realizing that I am going to be largely alone in my perspective of trying to save the M (as long as the A exists), except for of course you wonderful people.

I am having trouble prioritizing my next exposure. Should it be:

- people that might take action to support killing the A
- people that will cause stress to the A

?

Do them ALL.

I plan on doing them all, just trying to choose between them. I get your point though. I need the encouragement.

I also realize that I need to be more clear about what I say in exposure conversations, I need to be very direct about my intentions, and less apologetic. When I read SickofLimbo's story about his exposure to the kids, and the constructive feedback offered by others, this point is made more clear to me.