It is this simple my friend. It really is..DUDE

YES! This is EXACTLY what you should say to them!

So, again, I ask you to put yourselves in THEIR shoes. If your daughter was starting to create a long series of poor choices, wouldn't you want to know?@! Of course you would. Because you would want to knock some sense into her, you'd be ashamed of her, you'd want her to STOP before she started embarrassing YOU!

PLEASE don't take away the opportunity from all these people by hiding your husband's secret for him.

lost, what about this? What about you print out this thread, and give it to YOUR parents, and ask them what THEY think you should do?

Then, if they agree you should be silent and pretty and nice, and sit at home and hope he'll stop screwing another woman, I'll back off.

Lost,

You will not be hurting his parents, his actions are the cause. You are just shedding light on it.

BA

Why ia it a mistake to trust him? I hate to make you feel like you are beating your head against a brick wall. (that is cute by the way). If he isnt having anything to do with her and I start calling around now it will only stir it all up again.

You dont have to answer that. I know why you think I should talk to his parents. I wish I had the day it happened. That would have made sense to me. At this point something has to happen for me to feel like I can do that. I cannot get access to his computer. The only one is at his office that he can use. Is there any other way to know what or who he is talking to except a keylogger. I have to download that on the computer dont I. And when it is downloaded will it send me messages about what he types. What if his employer sees it? Is that criminal?

I look in his email but that doesnt tell me much. I dont see her # on our cell phone bill either. Someone looked through his desk at work and no cell phone there. We share a car so he cant be storing it in the car. But I have looked jsu the same. I have looked everywhere I know he could hide something and founds nothing.

If he is seeing her he is covering his tracks well.

He is being watched. If I find out he is seeing her or communicating with her in any way I will talk to them and ask for their help.

Dear lost:

My thread is swimming....but taking in water. i won't go into great detail about my situation, just a few details:

me: BS-47
him WH-45
married: 25 years this year in June
three children: daughter 22, graduated in May with BS, 1st semester in master's program, getting married Dec.18, 2009;
son: 2nd yr. in college, youngest son: Jr. in Highschool
DD-April 11, 2009: EA with co-worker 20 yr. younger than him.

Told me he new we were both unhappy, he was unhappy with his life, he wanted out, he wasn't sure what he wanted. He was a failure as a husband, he was the reason i was unhappy, depressed, never being able to provide in the way he wanted to(although i have never wanted or desired material things and have always been frugle with our money. He needed space, he was not the same person, he was confused. That night I new in my gut that something was coming that would shake me to my core. I felt a pain, and a fear that I cannot describe. That night, he told me in a resturant, started to cry and lose control over his emotions, and this is so unlikie him. To me he looked like a scared little boy, he looked lost and confused, hurt and sad, broken and beaten up by the world.

I could not just let him go, could not let him flounder by himself. Two nights later, he admitted there was someone else he was talking too. I knew her, had met her several times, and her husband, thought of her like a daughter, she is that young. I made up my mind that night I would fight for my husband, my marriage, my family. I would not go quietly into that dark night.... and so it began. I made one promise to him that looking back on it now, I'm not sure I would make again. That was to say nothing to anyone. Not my children, parents,in-laws, friends, no-one. I asked him for one promise: to respect me enough to tell me everytime he spoke with her. He made the promise. I kept mine, he did not keep his.

I have told one friend since this began, the weight of it all becoming to heavy. She is one of my dearest and lives very far away. I sought help from a therepist, and my family dr for antianxiety meds.

Our situations seem very much alike, in some ways. Looking back on it now, I would have told her husband. When I made the decision to tell him, i could find no info on him, tried everyway with help from here. You seem under alot of the same convictions that I felt. They are not popular on this site as you can see. However, they are valid and reasonable.

Decide what is best for you, your husband, your children and your marriage. But make no mistake, the person I decided to love through the fire was not the man I knew, not the man I thought I new, showed himself untrustworth, unreasonable, as some say here, an alian. He did however say he would walk through MB with me, we are trying to work the program. It has been hard and lonely most of the time.

I would recommend you decide how much and how long you can Plan A, it almost killed me. Finally, he sent NC letter, way after he said he had told her he was chosing his family and his wife. That happened in Nov. he says he picked us in May, however there was continued contact few and far between but still to much for me.

Read all the material here on the website, do the questionaires, get the book SAA, and others. We are trying to rebuild, and rediscover but i am fearful and weary, and he is broken and guilty. We are not the same people, but we are people worth saving, a marriage worth rebuilding. Your love, desire, hard work will not be "cake eat", I watched myself "audition" for my job, i watched him play the rebel,"player" mentality while meeting every EN,SF, every domestic need he had. I watched him, and promised him I would help him grieve the loss of her, had to acknowledge how he felt about her, how deep he fell for her, the needs she met, admiration being one of the biggest. I had to let him feel her loss so I could fill the void never knowing if it was going to be enough or appreciated.

While doing this I realized my part of the downfall of our marriage, my responsibility in what had gone on. How I had failed him. Everytime I realized a need he had that I did not meet, I acknowledged it, appologized, asked for forgiveness. Don't misunderstand, I did not downplay his responsibility in the downfall of our marriage, i did not take responsibility for his choice in the A, that was his choice.

I walked on eggs for quite awhile, but I can say that it was long, hard, lonely but worth it. I feel good about the way I handled this, not perfect, not great. But I followed my instincts, prayers and I don't think they have mislead me. I also followed alot of the advise on this site. I snooped, got all the info I could. learned techniques that I could and will put into action if this A rised up again, or if he chooses to walk outside of our bond again.

I feel your pain, i am sorry you are here. you don't have to rationalize your choices, they are yours. keep an open mind and listen to all the different opinions you may find help in the simplest ways. at the very least you will find support.

Thank you so much for your encouragement. You do sound an awful lot like me. I know you are hurting and it sounds like you are trying to be there for him just like I fell like I need to be there for my H. Its not that he didnt hurt anyone. It is just that he is human and didnt do it to hurt me.

The way you discribed your husband looking like a scare little boy is exactly how I see my H. I can see the hurt in his face and in his eyes. It is not always there. More and more often he looks confident and strong again.

I am not to blame for his A. I know that. I have to take responsiblity for my part in the problems that led him there. I appreciate your words more than you kow. As I appreiate catperson, maritalblsis and all the rest. It is so great to find someone who I can talk to and get good sound advice.

I know I may not take it sometimes but I have to do it in my own time. If i fail then it is my failure.

you wrote...

That night I new in my gut that something was coming that would shake me to my core. I felt a pain, and a fear that I cannot describe.

When I received the message he sent me that he was leaving I thought someone had shot me. It was the most pain I have ever felt in my life. It came out of no where. I wish that kind of pain on no one.

From that moment on there has been a dull pain in my stomach that doesnt go away.

The hardest part is watching him "grieve her loss" . I feel sorry for him when he is like that. That is why I think he has not been seeing her.

I need to find the book SAA. I cant think about anything else anymore. It is hard to get any work done.

Today is his birthday!

That seems fair. Just remember that, only 4 days ago, you said this:
He is so deep in the fog still that you cannot trust anything he says or does right now. It could take no more than for him to see a billboard she once commented on, to go running back to her. And, if no one else knows, they will be able to carry their affair on - in secrecy.

They will go underground. They will FIND ways to sneak time together. It will be FUN.

If no one else knows, it will also be EASY.

It has been 5 days since he said he didnt think anyone cared if he was happy.

Its been 3 weeks and one day sinc he said he feels like he needs to be with her. I can still see his face when he said it. It was in that conversation he agreed he would not talk to her anymore. It was not as if he really wanted to say that but more like if that is what will make everyone happy then that is what Ill do.

I can feel in the way he touches me that he doesnt really want me. He says I love you but its more of "love ya". There is a big difference.

I go over this in my head over and over. I considered talking to his father and asking him for advice. He is a very good man and I know he would talk to me about it. He loves his family and he loves us so much. I just dont want to give my H the ammunition to run away. It all depends on how his dad handles it I think. I would almost rather my dad talk to him but I am afraid ofthat too. He is angry with my H about all this. But, he is very level headed so....

I asked my H to go talk to our priest. He said it wouldnt do any good. That no one would help. They would only ask questions and ask how do you fell about that. He is not one to take help very easily. I wonder if I asked the priest to call my H if that would be a good idea.

My only child at home that is not off at college is having a difficult time. She is watching him and knows he is not the same. She posts sad comments on her face book and asks for her problems to go away. She barely eats and cries to herself for his attention. He isnt the same with her. She knows it and they were so close before. He doesnt spend the time he used to watching her swim and talking her to about it.
She can see his sadness and it makes her sad.

I have talked to him about this and he seems to be making an effort to give her the attention she needs. I only hope it will continue.

One question I have for anyone who has taken antidepressants. I am not a fan of them but I wonder if they really help. It is difficult to be positive and act like the happy wife when you dont feel secure or even loved. Just a little heart felt hug would help initiated by him but I dont get that. Would the meds help or would I be correct in thinking they wouldnt do much for me at all. I am not sobbing uncontrollably nor am I sitting around doing nothing.

I find it hard to let go in the morning. When I get in B at night I want to stay too close. I am probably smothering him. I am scared to let go for fear he wont be back tonight. I am so mad at myself for not seeing this. I was the exact opposite 3 months ago. I prctically ignored him and could care less how close he was. I was mad at him for not giving me attention and leaving me alone all the time while he worked. I shoulve just went to where he worked and hung out there like the OW did. I guess I needed to be home with my daughter. I dont know. I hate this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is VERY wrong for you not to tell her what's going on. She NEEDS you right now to be honest. The worst thing for kids is for the adults to think they are helping the child by shielding them, pretending nothing is wrong because the kids aren't 'mature' enough to understand.

Well, look where that attitude has gotten you and your daughter?

Please sit her down and tell her the truth. I PROMISE you she will not hate her father, or you, she will be RELIEVED to finally be told the truth. I promise you.

And PLEASE call his father and talk to him. Ask him to talk to his son. Your H NEEDS HIS father right now. He isn't telling his parents because he is ashamed of himself. But who do we want to respect us more than anyone else in the world? Our parents. You will help him by giving him access to his father by opening the gate. Once he realizes his father will forgive him, the rest will come.

Yes, antidepressants WILL help! I promise you that, too! There are hundreds of different kinds. They have kinds that you can't even tell you're taking. The one I was on, the only change in me was that I was...motivated to take care of myself and get up and clean the bathroom or take out the trash. Very intangible, but very real. No fogginess, no woosiness, no numbness. Just motivation. Kind of like it helped me make decisions. It helped me not feel hopeless. It helped me see the glass half full.


ETA: Just wanted to add that your daughter is blaming HERSELF for his dealing with her differently. All kids do. They don't think of outside reasons; their family is their world. So, if dad doesn't want to be around me, if he's not the same around me, it's because I've disappointed him somehow. That's what she is thinking.

So. Who is here that has had an A and they were outed to their family by their S? How did it feel? Didnt it make you feel like you may as well leave now? Of course you dont want anyone mad at you or disappointed in you but that is already the case. Why not go for it at this point. Prove them all wrong so to speak. After all, you are "in love" with this person. Who could blame you if it is TRUE LOVE? Don't you deserve happiness.

You have been miserable for so long. Now you have the chance to be with someone who you really wnat to be with. Your S has been the source of all your pain for so long. It is your chance to live again! You stayed through the children growing up and did everything you could to please your S. Nothing was good enough. You feel like you dont measure up to your S expectations. The OW wants you just the way you are!

Thats what I think would happen!

on many email accounts. I think maybe I found it because of one of the books was recommended.

Lost --

You two desperately need help. I've been a wayward, and I know that your husband is not able to do what you need from him.

It takes time.

Your expectations of him are totally out of whack. He is not even close to being able to meet your expectations.

You need to put your "taker" away. You can't expect him to give you the affection or loooooooove that you want from him. He is in withdrawal not only from OW, but also from you.

If he is committed to staying (even if its not for his undying love and passion for you....) then you don't need to further expose -- and you don't need somebody to talk some sense into him. That is a big ol disrespectful judgement by the way!
You can't EDUCATE him out of his depression. Any more than we can talk you out of yours.

I strongly suggest that you talk to your doctor about anti-depressants. You are very likely suffering from a situational depression -- and its hard to help your family through it if you can't function!

Get counseling with the Harleys. You don't have to air your laundry on this forum if you don't want to -- but it often helps because somebody is usually here 24/7 for your immediate support.

Your husband will come around. Meet his needs. Build the foundation now for the kind of marriage that is possible with the MB tools. I greatly admire and aspire to the kind of relationships that the Veterans of Recovery have with MB foundations!

Dear Lost:

I will agree with you, one of the hardest things was watching him grieve her and hear that he was "lonely", at work, at home, everywhere. When they let her go at work, they also let alot of other people go that he was close to as work companions. So he felt like he was losing everyone and everything. what i had to realize was that he already grieved the loss of me, along time ago. So i can understand how you feel when you realize that there is nothing there, he is not there. However, I did not care in the moment. I had made up my mind that i was going to fight for him, us even if he would not. Doing that alone, and letting him reap all the benefits is hard, Plan A is hard. However, i never gave him up. Don't get me wrong, there were times we argued about the absurdity of the relationship he thought he had and wanted with her, times when i let my sadness, anger flair. But i really tried to keep that to a minimun.

What you are feeling as far as "smothering him" is referred as "hysterical bonding". and yes we did, i did. Smother, Smother,smother,smother,smother him. Give her no room to even breath near him. I really feel God gave me an uncontrollable desire for my WH, i could not control myself around him. I needed him in every way you can think of. I, myself could not understand it. and in the tender moments, and yes there were moments, we would sometimes talk about it. Meet his every need, even before he realizes he has it, and if he questions it tell him why.

As far as that pit in your stomach, i lost close to 30 pounds because the only thing i could do was breath, and even that was hard sometimes. it is much better now, 9 months out but there are still moments that i catch myself hyperventylating a little.

Your situation is different then mine, in that your kids are aware, he has admitted a PA and making plans to physically leave. i don't pretend to know how that feels or to know how to handle that portion of the chaos you find yourself in. i have no answers as to how his relationship with his daughter could be healed during this hurtful time. i do know that the level of hurt you feel to realize that this otherwise wonderful father would even consider someone else's pain or feelings before his daughters is a level i hope i never find.

my heart is with you, take deep breaths, continue to read and inform yourself via this forum and website, then make your decisions based on the information you have and the outcome you desire. You cannot continue to run defense for this man. His choices were his, the consequenses are his.

I go to this forum to try and vent and make sense of how I am feeling. And, of course to get good advice from those that have been here. It helps a great deal. Its like writing in a journal but others get to read it. I think it is a great thing that gives people a place to talk things out without consequences.

yes, Lost that does make since to me....seeing him still there, that was the hope i looked for.

if you read my thread you will see my say " I know longer so me in his eyes, it hurt so bad....I use to always see me in his eyes. The way he would look at me as if i were the most beautiful thing he had ever seen and the thought of anyone else would never even cross his mind..... that is what was lost.
When i started Plan A'ing him to death, i was not there, not only not there, he didn't want me there, there was no room for me, she was there. I can't describe the hurt, loss, pain...i wish i had better words... but as the days turned into weeks, weeks into months, he would say "Do you see yourself there yet, he use to tell me i was never really gone, i don't believe that i saw the truth. There were moments, i would see flickers, signs of what use to be, hope that i could squeeze her out. i would even say to him while looking directly in his eyes, I am not there, but i will be.
Then as the fog began to lift, as the withdrawel became apparent, as his distence became greater from her, and he began to allow me closer, i could see me. I don't see me like i did before, but i think my eyes have changed. Maybe it was unrealistic to find that kind of joy and peace, fullfilment, innocence in his eyes, now when i look i see that both of us have pain, we both are disillusioned, we both are cautious.
Of course he wants this to just be over, and i don't even think that is healthy, however i do hope that one day the woman i see in his eyes now, and hopefully in the future will make the other "me" i saw in his eyes pale in comparison.

I know that it will be me that spurs us on in recovery. i want him to recover just as much as me, us. i never want to be in this situation again. so now the goal is affair proofing our relationship. i have told him it's not about trust, it's about knowledge, respect, honor and commitment. That being said, it all still hurts, it all still is the hardest thing to wake up to and the hardest thing to lay down at the end of the day. the hardest thing to put aside instead of put between "us".

I can see that you are still hurting so badly. You must love him very much. I understand and can relate to how you feel. It seems to me that the two of you working together to rid yourselves of this pain will help you bond in a way that no one else can understand. I will pray for you and your husband that your marraige is restored and your happiness returns.

Lost, I think you might achieve more, if you spend some time trying to get inside your husband's mind. Figure out what HE wants. What drives him. Is he a 'I need to feel good...now' kind of guy? Or a more logical one? Or what? If you can figure out what his rationalizations are, you might be able to become part of his equation. Right now you are on the outside, looking in. Outside, WISHING and HOPING he'll turn around, see you, and go, 'oh yeah! I want HER!'

Not gonna happen.

We do what feels good for ourselves. We preserve ourselves. Our happiness.

Your happiness right now = husband wanting you.

His happiness right now = something like 'freedom from her nagging' or 'more SF' or 'having women paw all over me to feed my ego' or 'regain my youth'...

Something like that.

Until you can figure out what makes him tick, you sitting on the sidelines, looking pretty, waiting for him to glance over at you and suddenly hit himself on the forehead and say 'good grief what was I thinking' is a pretty sad plan. And 95% futile.

IMO, you sound like someone who's letting her 'romance' guide her plans. Like you think he'll think the same way, WANT to be in love with his wife because that's what life is all about. Truth is, that is what GIRLS dream of, not guys. They don't sit around as kids going 'gee, I can't wait to get married.' In fact, they joke to each other about how long they can last until they get stuck with it. Polar opposite.

If you want him back, try thinking like him, to figure out what would attract him back.

I dont really know how to answer this. Or, rather how to feel about it or how to react. Where do you see I am nagging him? I dont see it.

I think he has feelings of failure. That he hasnt measured up to his families expectations. He is a perfectionist and is too hard on himself. I have tried to make sure he knows that I am proud of him and what he has accomplished and no matter what happens we only need our family. He has to see it and I can only try to help him by standing by him.


I havemade arrangements for trips to sporting events and made sure we all went as a family. I have gotten him interested in a few other outside activities that he has expressed interest in before but never took the time.

I make sure our home is inviting to him and that he doesnt have to "look" for anything he needs. We play games and listen to music, go for walks, make plans for our kids, talk about work.... I try to stay positive and jsut dont talk about anything negative.

He talks about he cant do this or that becaase he is getting old so I make sure I tell him every chance I get how handsome he is or try make him feel strong or even superior every chance I get.

I tell him what a great dad he is and point out the things he does for the kids that make them look up to him. I tell him the things they say to me that lets him know how proud of their daddy they are.

Maybe I sound like a pathetic loser on this posting. I do want the romance back. I believe he loves the romance too. I believe he wants his S life to be fulfilling for his W. I think that makes him feel accomplished.

What I believe he wants is to feel like he has done something with his life and to feel successful. I think he doesnt want to get old because he hasnt done everything he needs to do yet to get that feeling. He has hit a bump in the road that he is afraid he cant get over. The OW gave him a chance to start over. Or so he thought. She doesnt expect anything (or so he thinks). She does not have to criticize him or judge him in any way.

I am not just sitting on the sidelines watching him slip away. Trust me. I may cry when he isnt around but when he is I am the "perfect wife". He knows I miss him and he knows I am hurt. But, he also knows that I have not laid down to die.

I thought about letting him go and telling him he has to find his happiness where he thinks it is. But, I am afraid he wont ever come back. I do believe he woudl realize wehre his heart lies and where his happiness comes from but he is a very proud man. I am afraid he would feel it caused too much damage and not return.

I now believe letting him go is not the answer. I must fight for my H. I have to give him time. No matter how long it takes.

I guess I am just stubborn.