Thanks Cat WS is got very good at picking up trigger moments for me so he is very good with the cuddles but when i saw hotel i wasnt expecting it i was following the satnav to drop off friends and was finding my way home so was alone. Turned music up to drown brain and guess what stupid song was on! the new stupid one that has " da da da dada meet me in the hotel room" lyrics dont know who sings it but it seems like its always on the radio.. its like the forces that may be are conspiring against me. Atleast i can see the funny side through the pain its a laugh or cry situation. WS at work with OW now so feeling the force of being left to my own thoughts. Dont really want to talk to friends as ill hear the usual Divorce him speech, and i just dont want to go there right now. My best fried told me that as we are so similar and she knows me so well she reckons ill never get over this and my marriage is doomed. thats the level of support i get. I love her to bits but dont want to hear from people who dont support my marriage.

Hi BH
Triggers----they are a b****. Seems like every great,loving, awwwww moment comes with them. It's hardly fair, but nothing about this is.
The one thing that helps me, not all the time but most of the time, is to live in the moment. What is he saying right now? What is he doing right now? How does he feel about me right now? The other thing is: I call or text and tell him what i need right then, not why i need it so as not to dredge up guilt, but what i need. Then if he asks why, most of the time i say this,"because i need to hear from the one person that i love the most in this entire world", or "you are the only one that can touch me in this most private way". usually, that ends the why do you need this question. if it doesn't, and i think i can trust him with how i'm feeling and why, i tell him.

WH has often said to me that he knows me and that i am never going to get over this or be able to let it go. when he does this i just tell him that i am not that same person, just as the old him is gone, so is the old me and that i deserve the chance and it is my right as his wife to get over this and get what i need to let it go. only he can make this go away, make this better and that is his job if he choses to stay. i know it's not the same as a friend saying it. our friends say things based on the theory "if it happened to me", the only thing wrong with that theory is that it didn't.

here's to the hope we can all be better friends to those who need our understanding and support. you have mine, my dear friend. i am sorry the triggers are coming fast and hard. Keep moving forward don't stop. you deserve these good times, good feelings, peaceful moments of hope and love. you deserve this success you have worked hard toward this moment. give yourself the right and permission to enjoy your husband. It's about you enjoying him, not the other way around. Don't feel guilty, don't let yourself question it, fight your brain and let your heart win today. Tomorrow is another day......

Another good busy hectic day and yet still managed to have a few unwanted memories, this time tryed to get some reassurance from WS. I aske him if he truly regretted the A. he gave me short sharp answers like im supposed to know the answer is yes. And although i do i still like to hear it from him from time to time. Its weird becase he is working with Steve and im not really included in this. Wondering what tomorrows coaching session will bring. WS working a full night at work tonight so feeling vulnerable because when A was happening both sexual encounters happened on Wednesday nights, he had told me he was working a night shift when infact he was in hotel room with OW. So him working a full night is really hard for me. Any advice on how to emotionally survive the night?? tryed to watch cartoons with the kids in my bed hoping one of them would fall asleep with me so i can cuddle them to sleep but they are too used to their own beds so went back to their own room after cartoons. So now really want to get to sleep but cant. WS usually works from 4pm to 1am. A full night is from 8pm to 7am he does not do these often at all and they are not part of his contract.

Bh,
Can you & he steal a few mins to trade text messages or mobile phone calls, or is the nature of his job such that there's no way for him to do that while at work? It can't provide you with perfect peace-of-mind re: what he's up to at all times, but it's a step that could help him to demonstrate that he's at least thinking about you from time to time. Even if it's merely texts in the midle of the night when you're sound asleep, you'll see them in the morning &m ay even find yourself looking forward to them.

One of my big regrets (among many) is that in the years before my A, I got out of the habit of touching base with my W during the workday (unless it was for some decidedly unglamorous, unstimulating, utilitarian purpose like coordinating with her on calendar obligations, such as deciding which one of us would drive son to his baseball practice, or which of us would buy some groceries, etc.) But as it turned out, and as I don't think I even concsiously recognized until I was reading SAA after the whole Disaster had unfolded, I needed that human contact (of a non-utilitarian variety) in some deep way -- it was my EN for conversation. So when OW started feeling bold enough to call me at the office, and we'd talk (at first) merely about music, or exercise, or [believe it or not!] theological matters, I got myself hooked.

Since early-on in our recovery, Trust_Will_Come & I have made it a point to stay in touch daily in this way when we're apart, as best we can. And as a hospital nurse, she works lots of nightshifts too, and has to sleep during daytime as a consequence; so we've found that this type of contact, even if not lengthy or profound, has been helpful in keeping us better focused on one another.

apologies for typos -- just had shoulder surgery today so typing isn't too good right now...

IDK. If I was in your shoes, I'd be packing the kids in the car, packing him a snack, and going to visit him at work, bar or not. With the kids. So everyone sees he has a family. Beautiful kids he'd be hurting. All that jazz.

I grew up at bars, with my mom. My H did, too. So what?

hey Cat I think you posted on the wrong thread my WS does not work in a bar, neither do I.

Glove we are definitly doing what you suggested, WS has been texting me from work regularly since D day as he used to text OW contstantly (600+ text per month showing on his phonebill from time of A) so his idea of texting me instead is bitter sweet because I feel that he has simply subsituted me for OW and it burns, he doesent text anything intersting its just stupid chit chat that just gets on my nerves like kids in bed yet? or OW is not working today or something like I what are the plans for tomorrow. Its so mundane and irritating it feels like its adding insult to injury when the OW got " I love you" etc. But hey i get the message that its an improvement for him to be contacting me rather than another woman from work.

Right update time.....

Had coaching with Steve yesterday, didnt go as i would have liked as still stuck in same spot and now im really suffering financially and had to book double session for next week so money is incredibly tight which is adding even more stress to life to put it into prospective one session with steve equal 1 weeks wages for me. I cant phisically fit in anymore shifts at work right now im exhausted.

Steve asked me 4 questions to clarify where we are now basically the theory was to "treat the injury" then go onto recovery. The treating the injury is getting problematic because it involves 4 elements and there are issues with those already leading to huge bust up today but ill get to that later.
The first element is WHY basically does WS understand why he had A do i understand its not my fault etc. That one went smoothly as Steve took no prisoners with WS and explained the protect your weaknessess part of the program and so far so good, WS understands admits and works on his weaknesses that led to A.

The second element is WHAT this is as in do i know the details of what happened during the A. I do know what happened in excrutiating detail so we didnt need to spend much time on that one although i did tell WS this is your last chance to tell me if you have witheld any information as if i do discover any nasty surprises after this you will have lost the trust i am trying to build and there will be no way forward. WS took time to think and agreed that he has disclosed everything. I agree with him 99% as you can never be totally sure of these things afte the betrayal of the A.

The next section was Validation, does WS understand the injury that he has cause and that he pain is excrutiating? Steve told him about rape comparison etc and on the surface WS fought this because he said he couldnt understand because he has never been though it, Steve explained that a DR does not have to have had the illnesses of his patients to be able to treat them and finally WS started to see that he can make an effort to understand the injury. Unfortunately this is where we are stuck he only understands about 10% of the pain to the fact that he is daily making inappropriate decisions that show me that he has no clue as to the amount of pain i am in. He still works with OW he does not reassure me on any level on anything, this is starting to grate as when confronted with the lack of reassurance side WS advised that he does not reassure because he does not want to bring up A during a good period of time. this to me shows how little he understands about how I feel, THE A IS ALWAYS WITH ME in good and in bad times so reassurance like "im so glad im here i made such a terrible mistake risking our M" are never out of place. But i dont have the money to keep revisiting this issue with Steve, no matter how many times i tryed to kill myself no matter how many times i get triggered or get upset or cry nothing gets the message through to WS that the pain he has caused is not a simple bump that will disappear its a deep deep deep injury. If anyone here can help me on this one ill be grateful.

Lat pert is to ensure A never happens again and this involved WS taking his EA questionaire and setting boundried on each EA to stop it from being met outside of marriage. This task went well and as its a wait and see kind of thing i have no idea if these boundried will actually be put in place the next time some sad floozy sets her sights on him. So although on paper it looks good i cant say anything about it in actions as nothing to validate the boundries have come up yet.


Next session im supposed to send Steve my EA questionarie and the LB questionaire in order to work through the next stage of building a better marriage. I got to say I just dont feel right about this, how can i build a better marriage when there is still contact with OW?? the jobhunting is happening but at a snails pace and im seriousely fed up of the evenings at home getting skitzo about OW and WS working toghther. WS still puts work ahead of family as shown in letter i sent Steve and published on here.

Todays fight

A disabled lady who works with WS and OW came over to my house today to pick up her puppy from us. She was talking about how her H will be upset at first because she is getting a pet but then he will soften as soon as he sees the pup. I told her my WS is like that when i got the kitten he was annoyed but now he loves the cat more than anything, she told me well atleast you can get round him because he owes you (owes me as in he had A so he has no say as to what pet i get) this led to her saying that although OW has been helpful to her when she gets into difficulty at work and she has nothing against OW she also considers her to be the "Store Bike" this means the one who every male member of staff gets to ride, I said that i was aware OW had been intimate with other men in the store a part from my WS and this lady went on to give me a few more names of people this OW has slept with. I felt sick. although i know this OW history it makes me feel dirty that my WS has brough home part of her and inflicted it onto my body without my knowlede, so when this lady left i asked WS how do you feel when you hear that OW has had so many sexual partners and they are men you work with on a daily basis and does not use contraceptions etc. WS response, i dont really care about that much it doesent bother me. Rightfully or not this led to HUGE fight i mean what kind of person does not care about having stuck their intimate bits in the sewer?? or even forgetting about that what kind of person feels nothing towards a homewrecking COW?? Or how can he not feel anything towards the fact that he VIOLATED my body by not using protection and bringing me her disgusting deaseases??? I just dont get it, Is he Braindead?? He claims he cant get angry at OW as he was responsible for the sex too so i put it to him this way , no problem hun if you want me to concentrate on just your part of the A then be prepared to deal with my anger towards you, can you do that?? the answer is no.

Where do i go from here??

Bh,

I recall your history & H's, and I don't mean to underplay the complexities & the baggage, but as I read your latest post, it just seems to all boil down once again to something that most people advised from very early-on in your & H's threads: He needs to get out of that job so that he's no longer working in proximity to OW.

As long as he's there, you can't help but being triggered, he can't help but being triggered, he can never demonstrate enough rage against OW to suit you (without appearing to be blameshifting, or without winding up in jail or otherwise with a record that'll make him unemployable & useless as a breadwinner), and thus the two of you can never move forward. All else seems peripheral to this problem for the both of you right now.

That's how I see it, anyway, from my admittedly distant & imperfect vantage point. I think I've exhausted all I can say... I really am rooting for the two of you. I hope this Christmas goes well & shows you each & your little ones something new & better together as you look to the new year. God bless. //

Sorry, BH. I've done that a couple times this week! Too much stuff going on.

I think that, for me, him continuing to work with OW would be a dealbreaker. He can't possibly understand what you're going through, if he can't even see how that would hurt.

Is he doing other EPs to reassure you?

If not, I have to ask you why you would stay. It would prove to me that he has learned nothing, cares nothing, and suffered nothing. Therefore, he'll keep on having affairs. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

Can you help him with the jobhunting? Just decide that you focus on nothing else for the next month, to get him away ASAP? And if you see him NOT doing the work, that may tell you if he is even serious about leaving her/the job.

Glove and Cat,
I cant help but agree with you about the job siuation, its just NOT working. I have not had any contact with the people he works with (with exeption to the exposure email)until the past couple of months due to the puppy thing and his old manager transferring to the new store he is at, a part from that i had been very separate from his work now I have personally met a few people he works with i thought it would make things better not worse but it has had an adverse affect as they see OW as slut and although i am aware of that fact being reminded of it just brings out the dirty feeling of having shared a man with someone like that, it creeps me out so much i just want to get in the shower and scrub myself over and over again, U see even men who have A with prostitutes have the decency to wear condoms thats a protective layer between the two people this never happened with my WS its disgusting and makes me feel disgusting, he slept with me 12 hours after having unprotected sex with her he says he washed his private part but how can a little bit of water wash away all of her traces??

WS has been jobhunting more than he has ever done before but still no new job to go to and im sad because he is finally doing something about it but during an impossible period of time (xmas).

I do agree that with the exeption of being totally transparent (i have access to everything phone computer etc) and i do get texts while he is at work, WS has done nothing to reassure me while im at home. He is a poor communicator and expects me to realise that just because he is still here he does love me. What about the times he walked out?? what about the numerous times he shouted at me that he didnt love me anymore am i just supposed to have a frontal labotomy and forget about that??

I am going to give Steve one last chance to sort this out I cant afford anymore coaching in order to move though this at a snails pace, he needs to be firmer with WS, i am surprised at him as he has NOT been encouraging WS to change jobs. He has also not read emergency email regarding job, hes the one who told me to email if there was a problem but when i did just once despite 5 coaching sessions so far and i got no response 7 days later when i actually had coaching told Steve i had sent him email and he opened and read it right there and then for the first time. I know Steve is busy and i appreciate that but dont ask me to do smething if he isnt going to have the time to help. Am i being harsh? I feel like im being a horrid person but i cant help feeling disappointed that even Steve is concentrating on WS future boundries when right now if he carries on working with OW there will be no future. Am i wrong to think that if he sees that WS has no choice but to stay at his job that he should be giving him a plan as to how to reassure me when he goes to work or giving both of us ideas on how to cope when WS is in contact with OW. I feel like poop for saying the above but i cant help the way i feel, i am trying to trust Steve but his plan for us is just not meeting my needs, what do i do carry on paying for something i cant afford or speack up?

The bottom line is your H cannot stay in the job. There is nothing that can be done to alay your fears and triggers while he is there.

This is the message that you keep giving us. You could take control of this and give yourself a timeline: if he isn't in a different job by x date I will move to a plan B to protect me.

You will then deal better with the work situation because you know there is an end in sight.

Steve cannot make your H doing anything. There is no point toughing up on him. Your H has to do it because he wants to. If he is forced into something he will be resentful.

Slowly he will begin to understand, once he understands the actions will follow OR not.

You certainly seem to express that working with OM is a deal breaker. If so, firm up your boundaries and do something to protect you.

Wishing you peace and light

ST

I guess I would tell my H that, for the time being and until he changes jobs he can help me avoid a nervous breakdown by taking extraordinary measures to reassure me WHILE he is at work. Sending me a text pixture of himself at least once an hour, inviting me to work at odd times, welcoming me when I DO show up at my own decision, telling the people at work what he did so that they can help keep OW away from him...

Hi BH

you need to speak up, tell steave just what you shared on your post. those requests are not unreasonable, not at all. you have mentioned two very good and doable options re: OW and WS working together. one thing i have seen on this site is that just about everyone agrees working with the OW never works. However, relife does invade, if he can't leave yet, then what you have asked for is very reasonable.

if my WS still sat across the aisle of OW i know for a fact we would be over, one of the very things that gave us a chance was that she was let go 2 weeks after DD. even with that they continued a phone, text, e-mail relationship. so if they had been in physical proximity it would have progress to PA very quickley(thats assuming i believe what he tells me when he says it didn't)

and the other about no condoms, thats just stupid, especially in this day and age. he needs to apologize just for that alone.

are all WS stupid(mine included) when it comes to A, is it really that mind blowing, addictive and exciting?

Evening all I will respond to the above posts but for now i have huge confession about today, yes i have considered not sharing this on MB as i am aware of the huge disappointment you guys will have in me and i am risking loosing the friendships on here but i got to be honest as to what happened today and take my 2x4 as they come because the one thing i wont do is lie or hide things despite some of you thinking i did that alrady by not disclosing my past and i still maintain that was not done with intent, this however i have to tell you about no matter what and I hope that you can see past the anger you will have towads me and carry on being here for me.

Ok here it goes. Today was followup from yesterays fight as to why WS does not get angry disgusted at the above facts regarding OW and what he did with someone like her. WS spent all night reading literature confirming OW past and character (that was hidden from him during A) in the hope of unlocking some hidden anger or disgust (his idea not mine) so woke up this morning in the aim of resolving this but he admits he doesent care and my last resort has always been making WS confront OW regarding her character, you see some of you have got satisfaction from the NC letter, i never had an NC letter and NC is still not in place, WS never told OW he never loved her, he never told her he regrets being with her he has not spoken to her since he broke up with her and even then it was under the pretence that he cares about her but has to be there for his kids (not that he thinks what he was doing was wrong or that he cares about me one bit) This has always hurt me, the fact that they work together under the possible beleif that he loves her yet has to be there for the kids just kills me. So for those of you that have read his thread you are aware of horrid letter he sent her but this again can be justified by her as me writing it and just getting him to send it, i wanted a face to face confrontation, i wanted him to see what people are saying that she is a heartless homewrecking so and so and that she never cared about him in the hope that he would wake up and stop thinking for one minute that what he did was ok and to question his choices in the future, to allow him to feel the humiliation of being so stupid as to fall for the act that she put on and a million other reasons, I just want him to WAKE UP and appreciate what he has.

Anywya my warped way of thinking led to me asking him to immediately turn up at OW house and confront her, tell her he never loved her and show her he cares about me and not her and see her lack of care. So WS thought that best way was to approach her under the pretences that he is warning her to behave at the xmas party as i will be there. I got WS to tape the conversation for proof and protection in case she says he was phisically threatening her so he took secret recorder and this is the conversation that took place.

he knocks on her door and she answers

OW can you please come outside as i need to talk to you and i dont want your little girl to hear this, it wont take a minute.
OW goes outside and WS says. Right weather you are aware of this or not me and my wife are going to the xmas party, its nothing to do with you as we are entitled to be there however having experienced the disgusting stunts you and your friend have pulled the past year i am here to tell you that i will do anything to protect my wife, you and your friends will stay away from her you wont smirk snigger or even look in her direction, i love her very much and am prepared to retaliate should any of you hurt her in any way as she does not deserve it. I would like to confirm that you have received the email i sent you earlyer this year (copy of this email on WS thread) she says yes, then you are aware of how i feel about you, you are aware that i know what a wxxx you are and that you are so dirty you dont use condoms with anyone (WS says she looks at the floor at this point), I am aware of your past and who you really are and in the past i have kept quiet for the sake of my job but if you put one foot wrong at the Xmas party then i will expose you i will make your life hell i will make you loose your frinends and job as i have all the information you have told me about them when we were involved, I also beleive that you are aware by now that there where no feelings involved between us and i never loved you i love my wife very much and as stated before will protect her with all my might she is worth a million of you and deserves all the love and respect i have for her. do you understand? she replyed yes i had no intention of causing any trouble. WS walks away.

So have i lost my mind completely?? am i wrong to feel better for that?? WS told me that during this whole conversation OW had non care look on her face and the only time she reacted was when he mentioned her dirty habit of not using condoms with any of the men she sleeps with. I feel such releif that finally she has been told he does not love her, finally he is showing her he will protect his family and most of all he has betrayed her, she thought he was this sweet guy that she can play with and now she sees he will be brutal for the sake of his family and he does not care for her. WS is at work so will discuss this event when he comes home tonight. I dont know what else to say i cant be sorry about this as i have wanted this for the longest time. I wanted to hurt, humiliate and shame her and WS has achieved this.

Why would you be wrong to feel better for that? He basically did a NC letter, in person. You should be glad!

I think you should feel good about this. Not, "successfully recovered" good, but "another step" good.

Don't feel shame for honest feelings of progress. Don't feel too elated for steps along the way. Feel good, not great.

Remember, radical honesty means being radically honest with yourself and your own feelings as well.

Keep up the good work.

Very well said mfoss

Thanks cat moss and myop I dont feel elated at all i feel releif that more than anything that finally WS has done something i have been asking him to do from day one. Tell OW he never loved her and confirm what they did was a mistake, hes at home because he loves his family not out of duty.

I just don't get this at all. Are you saying that time that could have been spent productively on building your M was spent reading about OW? That seems like absolute madness to me. Did Steve OK this? Is this part of the homework assignment set for your H?





The following quotes are from yllanoitome's NC letter to OW.


Whilst I think this is one of the worst NC letters ever written - way too full of emotion and drama -, it was sent 3 months after D-day and was so full of intimate detail that she couldn't possibly have thought you wrote it alone. It also says a lot of the things that you now say you are so desperate to hear that you are willing to inititate contact with OW.

Your H did say that..


So are you still so hung up about it because you DID write the letter and therefore your H hasn't said the things quoted above?


Why would you want this when his contact with her at work hurts you so much? I don't understand why you would want to keep OW so central in your lives when she should by now be of complete insignificance?

You should be building your M and working on the homework Steve has set. Not dragging the skanky OW back into the drama of your M.

What you have done is dangerous to your M as you have potentially opened dialogue between your H and OW. It doesn't matter the content of the conversation, it matters that the conversation took place at all. It matters that the OW may now seek to say what she needs to say to you H at some point.

The contact keeps her as part of your M and she shouldn't have any place in your M 13 months out from D-Day.

I'm sorry but I just don't get the dynamic here. Us BS's have to want to move on from the trauam of our WS's A's in order to begin R. I don't see you wanting to move forward, I just see you being stuck and I know that the fact that your H still works with OW has something to do with you being stuck, so address that issue as a matter of urgency and don't add to it by initiating more contact yourself.

You ask a good question in your thread title "It's been a year. When will things get better?" The answer is when all contact ends and when you both commit to moving forward and applying MB principles in your M.

Good luck but I'm outta here.