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Over on the SAA forum a thread was started about SF, how it is not the same as other EN's, about people who deliberatly withhold it, and people not wanting it. Here is a link to page two where I made my first reply (3rd post down) We got kinda side tracked with my need for SF and my wifes apparent lack of a need for it. But since we have an OC, that thread got kinda off topic, so I wanted to continue it here. It could be a combination of things. I see OC is almost a year old. The first year of parenthood is very tough even without all A stuff to deal with. Is the baby sleeping through the night? Teething? Yes on most nights she sleeps through the night. Yes she is teething. Does your W get any sort of break during the day from the baby. Do you ever get a sitter on a weekend or have the baby at grandma's overnight? On days she works (2 days per week) the baby goes to her grandmas, I pick her up after work and almost always have her asleep and somthing fixed for dinner by the time wife gets home. On nights when she does not work, I will usually watch the baby as much as possible when I get home wile fixing dinner. Then wife puts her to bed wile I clean up. On the weekends I get up with the baby in the morning and watch her till wife wakes up or noon when we go wake her up. We rarley let the baby stay elswhere over night. But it does happen every few months. I feal like I do as much as I can to give wife time without baby and take care of the other domestic choors so she is not overloaded. A baby really turns your entire world upside down. All I wanted to do was sleep. SF was the furthest thing from my mind at night. Yet SF is what got wife into this mess.... See the Irony? Hi Gack,
I just wanted to say wow to you. Not many would take on an OC as their first (and only for now) child. Good wow or bad wow? Gack,
This discussion may belong in the OC forum but I'll ask here - And here we are  Your siggy says your W in somewhat foggy...do you get the impression she is still mentally in fantasyland? A little, every now and then. But mostly no. I rarely peek into the OC forum so maybe this has already been discussed. Nope Putting the SF aside for a moment are there any other signs that are troubling? I have not read up on your situation as of late but she may still be in withdrawl. Troubling.... Not really, nothing I would not expect from a wayward who is earley in recovery. I snoop quite a bit, I have not found out anything alarming. Since OC is her first and only child she could be keeping you at a distance to preserve whatever fantasy fog she still has. I think the fantasy part of the fog has been preatty much shattered. But I do think she is still going through withdrawel. it seems plausible that might be where her head is along with any physical issues that compound the situation. Could be. Like I said, I think her problem with SF with me is I am not a poorley tattoed, fellon who pushes a lawnmower for a living. Things are progressing, recovery is a long process and I know that. Overall we are more loving, spend more time with each other, and are far kinder to each other than we had been before the A. Exept for this one thing.
Last edited by Gack1; 12/10/09 11:53 AM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Like I said, I think her problem with SF with me is I am not a poorley tattoed, fellon who pushes a lawnmower for a living.
This is a sideways love buster. Insinuating your W has a taste for low life bums. This may be "true" in your mind, but it makes W look like an idiot.
If this attitude leaks even the tiniest bit into your verbal or physical messages to your W, it's basically a turn off.
Drop it!
Just my feminine point of view.
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I think this is significant:
OC's first B-Day on the horizon.
Please, take care of your heart during the next few weeks.
I think you are especially vulnerable right now.
Hold onto your W and make this as pleasant a B-Day as possible.
Next year will be better ... yes, it will, do not argue with me 
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I predict SEX in 2010 within your marriage.
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Send your wife to this forum - we'll turn the light on in her head and then you can turn her on 
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I still think a lot of your W's problems with SF may be related to the natural changes that a woman's body goes through after giving birth. I'm a member of another board of new moms (it's called The Baby Center, if you're interested) and the one thing I have heard from many of the moms on that site is how having a baby has negatively affected their desire for SF. It takes time for things to get back to normal after having a baby, and some things just never are the same.
Another thing I was wondering - what type of birth control are you guys using? When I was on the pill, my desire for SF went way down. If your W is on the pill, or any other form of hormonal birth control, that could also be a contributing factor.
It sounds like you're doing everything right. An OC can definitely lengthen the time it takes to get over the withdrawal phase. For me, I harbored a huge amount of guilt knowing that the OM was missing out on the opportunity to watch our OC grow up. In the beginning, he very much wanted to be a part of her life, but my H and I decided, for the sake of our family, that NC would be best. The OM finally agreed, but my guilt was still there. Every time the baby reached a new milestone - her first smile, the first time she rolled over, when she started to crawl - I would get hit with a pang of guilt knowing that the OM was missing out on watching such a beautiful little girl grow up. But it has gotten better with time, and what made it better for me was finding this site and getting affirmations from others who had been in my shoes that I was doing the right thing by choosing NC with the OM. Having this place to come to and others to talk to who had been in my shoes was a godsend.
I'm wondering if you have talked with your W about this site and if she would be willing to come here? It really might do her a world of good to realize that she's not alone and that others have been where she is now. Just a thought. I don't know if she would be open to it, but it never hurts to ask.
I think you are doing an amazingly difficult thing. There probably aren't many men who would accept an OC with no COM's. I think it makes your situation unique, and probably more difficult as well. But it does sound as though you and your W are doing pretty well, overall. If your W is more loving towards you, as you say, I wouldn't think she's still hung up on the lawnmower-pushing felon. He sounds like a real winner. It seems to me as though your W figured out who was the better man when she decided to return and work on your M.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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>ahem<
This is a sideways love buster. Insinuating your W has a taste for low life bums. This may be "true" in your mind, but it makes W look like an idiot.
If this attitude leaks even the tiniest bit into your verbal or physical messages to your W, it's basically a turn off.
Drop it!
Just my feminine point of view. No, this is my opinion of OM. He is a poorley tattoed fellon who pushes a lawnmower for a living. That is a fact. However, this never comes through in the real world. We almost never talk about OM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Next year will be better ... yes, it will, do not argue with me
I think so too, atleast I hope so. :MerryChristmas:
Last edited by Gack1; 12/10/09 11:46 AM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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However, this never comes through in the real world.
We almost never talk about OM. I think you missed what Pep was saying. You don't have to talk about OM but you are knocking yourself thinking like that and some of the things you have said do show resentment....which is normal and completely understandable. This may come out in your behavior even though you don't literally say the words. You have been dealt a hard hand and it sounds like you are doing rather well in spite of it. Have you specifically spoken with W about the lack of sex, how it makes you feel, and what is her take on it? And I'm not talking about dropping hints, assuming or "she should know" sort of thing.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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However, this never comes through in the real world.
We almost never talk about OM. I think you missed what Pep was saying. You don't have to talk about OM but you are knocking yourself thinking like that and some of the things you have said do show resentment....which is normal and completely understandable. This may come out in your behavior even though you don't literally say the words. You have been dealt a hard hand and it sounds like you are doing rather well in spite of it. Have you specifically spoken with W about the lack of sex, how it makes you feel, and what is her take on it? And I'm not talking about dropping hints, assuming or "she should know" sort of thing. I agree. It's very difficult to keep your true feelings about something from shining through. You may think you're doing a good job of not showing any lingering resentment, but usually people aren't anywhere near as good at hiding their feelings as they think they are.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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I was reading over at SAA and wanted to add my 2 cents if you don't mind.
Do you think maybe your wife is not interested in SF because of how she feels about herself physically and emotionally?
If she is uncomfortable with her body after the baby, she isn't going to want SF.
If she is continually beating herself up over the A, she isn't going to want SF.
I'm not familiar with your story, so I don't know where your wife is at mentally in regards to her A, but I do know that how I feel about myself has a direct line to how I feel about SF. And believe me, what I have done to my H, my marriage and myself has had a huge affect on my desire for SF.
Last edited by rubydoo; 12/10/09 12:03 PM.
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However, this never comes through in the real world.
HIGHLY SENSITIVE.
You are thinking "OM is a bum" = body language = wife gets message she is a bum too
Trust us wimmenz ... we're trying to buy you a vowel.
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Gack -
Your W may not feel she is worthy of you ... worthy your love ... or worthy of your >ahem< 
This may be so subtle you might not notice ... especially likely since OM was/is a total loser.
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Gack -
[b]Your W may not feel she is worthy of you ... worthy your love ... or worthy of your >ahem< This may be so subtle you might not notice ... especially likely since OM was/is a total loser.[/b] I'd bet my left big toe that it's this reason. Even after being m'd to my hubby for 15 years, I am STILL ashamed I was ever with my ex...and the Wookie just LOATHES him...which makes it worse.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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This may come out in your behavior even though you don't literally say the words. Maybe, but I try hard for it not to show. Have you specifically spoken with W about the lack of sex, Yes Yes and what is her take on it? I have gotten a myriad of excuses, everything from "I feel so bad about what I did to you that I almost cry during it" to "I am just not interested in it". The funniest, and most disturbing was when she tried to educate me on what men want. It seems I am weird for still wanting sex after marriage. And I'm not talking about dropping hints, assuming or "she should know" sort of thing. No, we have had direct talks about how much this bothers me, and the way it makes me feal ( Worthless, unwanted, unloved, not manley, etc) I have explained to her that it is my #1 emotional need, and that it is not being met. There is no possible way I have not been clear about this. She just does not understand. Or does not care. Or just finds me disgusting sexualy. I don't know witch.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Send W here.
We'll be gentle and tough 
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I think this is significant:
OC's first B-Day on the horizon.
Please, take care of your heart during the next few weeks.
I think you are especially vulnerable right now.
Hold onto your W and make this as pleasant a B-Day as possible.
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Even after being m'd to my hubby for 15 years, I am STILL ashamed I was ever with my ex...
[threadjack] The statute of limitations has long expired on your past stupidity. Please eliminate this from your "shame" files immediately. [/threadjack]
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If she is uncomfortable with her body after the baby, she isn't going to want SF. I don't think she is uncomfortable about her body. Pre A/OC my wife was a super hottie, and she new it. ( She even did some modeling) Post birth, she is 5lbs lighter, and does not have one single stretch mark, not one. Everyone comments on how quickley she returned to her pree pregnancy state. Her sisters are insanley jeliouse, and she has no problems wearing a bikini at a public pool or beach. If she is continually beating herself up over the A, she isn't going to want SF. We are preaty early in recovery. I dont think she blames me for the whole thing anymore, but I definitly don't see her beating her self up over it. I think she is in the "You need to get over it so we can move on" stage, but I'm not sure.
Last edited by Gack1; 12/10/09 12:28 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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> I definitly don't see her beating her self up over it.
What you see and what's going on in her pointed little head are two different things entirely.
Just sayin'.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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What is your response to this? My birthday is conveniently 12/29 I know I am pretty much not having a birthday this year. That�s ok, I have had 32 of them. This is the baby's first, it must be a special time her and for her mother, and so it shall be.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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The funniest, and most disturbing was when she tried to educate me on what men want. It seems I am weird for still wanting sex after marriage. Let's back up a minute here. Did your W really do this? Where on earth did she find anything to "educate" you with saying that men aren't supposed to want sex after they're married? Because I have never heard of such a thing.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Pre A/OC my wife was a super hottie, and she new it. (She even did some modeling)
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What is your response to this? My birthday is conveniently 12/29 I know I am pretty much not having a birthday this year. That�s ok, I have had 32 of them. This is the baby's first, it must be a special time her and for her mother, and so it shall be. Wrong, wrong, wrong. You still deserve a special day. My daughter's B-day is 3/22 and mine is 3/24. Our family celebrations often get lumped together, but my H always takes me out for a special B-day dinner, just the two of us, and I get to choose where we go.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Pre A/OC my wife was a super hottie, and she new it. (She even did some modeling)
Talk about the ultimate in "affairing down."
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Wrong, wrong, wrong. You still deserve a special day.
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Let's back up a minute here. Did your W really do this? Yes Where on earth did she find anything to "educate" you with saying that men aren't supposed to want sex after they're married? The department of maid up facts and non existent statistics Men want conquest, after marriage there is no need for it so a mans focus/needs changes from sex (Because we already conquered our wives) to family and home. Because I have never heard of such a thing. She assured me it was common knowledge and that I could confirm it with any married man who was honest.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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>he assured me it was common knowledge and that I could confirm it with any married man who was honest.
Respectfully, she's full of horsesh!t.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Oh. And it was all a deflection to make you forget that SHE is the one not wanting SF.
Pft.
I hate deflection.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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OK Gack,
In your opinion ....
Foreplay for a tired Mom = what?
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Kimmy - did you miss my TJ in earlier post ? (this thread)
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(pep's been smoking the mistletoe)
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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No.
You DO know by now that I was born with a guilty conscience?
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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>he assured me it was common knowledge and that I could confirm it with any married man who was honest.
Respectfully, she's full of horsesh!t. I AGREE!!!
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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No.
You DO know by now that I was born with a guilty conscience? I call bullchit. I'm your web momma, do as I say
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No.
You DO know by now that I was born with a guilty conscience? You really have to let that go. Pep is right. If I defined my worthiness as a human being by my choice of ex-boyfriends....  Sorry, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Men want conquest, after marriage there is no need for it so a mans focus/needs changes from sex (Because we already conquered our wives) to family and home. Sad to say it but I think that is what some women think about themselves and project that onto their Hs. I will say that I do believe "something" changes in a woman when she becomes a mother that many men overlook. A new mother is now responsible for the nuturing of a child and that can affect her sexuality. You may notice something as subtle as the way she dresses as she adapts to her new role as mommy. A new awareness and level of protection comes into play and many men IMO feel neglected because of it. Just one more factor for you to work into the equation Gack? Are you dizzy yet? 
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Gack,
I am so glad you brought this over here. I didn't want to continue jacking that thread over in SAA. I didn't realize OC is the first child for her and you. I would imagine that bumps your pain up a few notches. We have a few BW's that their H's OC is HIS first and the OW got what the BW should have gotten.
Writer,
I respectfully disagree with you about your line of thinking of why his FWW is avoiding SF. It feels like you are excusing her not filling her H's top EN.
Gack,
I think Pep is onto something that they upcoming year will be better. As a FWW I can tell you that the more time was put between me and my A, the easier it was to be fully engaged with my H. I never felt like I was "cheating" on xOM, it just took me a long time to go through withdrawl and fall in love with my H again. I think it takes more time for WW's to re-engage, perhaps because women don't compartmentalize as well as men.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Was there ever any doubt?  Hunny butterbean Kimmy-san ...I'm not a stupid 60-year-old. (although I did smoke a lot of mistletoe in the 60's) ... and I do have PLENTY of "how dumb was I ?" data from my sordid past ... BUT KIMMY it's a waste of time to feel "shame" over distant past events. It's a bad habit, serves ZERO purpose, and I, the wise and powerful Pep (who has your HOME ADDRESS by-the-way) am telling you to STOP it today.
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(pep's been smoking the mistletoe) I want some. :gobble:
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Kimmy,
pep is right ya know! If I defined myself by my past BF's and especially by my cheating on my H I would never be able to look anyone in the eyeballs.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Kimmy,
pep is right ya know! Was there ever any doubt? (what's the status on the get together?)
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Kimmy,
pep is right ya know! Was there ever any doubt? (what's the status on the get together?) The pep's retired and moving away get together or the family visiting from the UK get together?
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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The pep's retired and moving away get together or the family visiting from the UK get together? Both. You can email me.
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Pre A/OC my wife was a super hottie, and she new it. (She even did some modeling)
OM portrays himself as a bad boy. (In reality he is a pansy) I believe this is what my wife was thinking The tattoo�s are HOT! He is so reckless, and artistic, so free. Not stuffy like Gack He is a partner at a landscaping company! (This was a lie, he was just an employee payed under the table)Manual labor is so HOT! He doesn't sit in an office all day like Gack, he is a real man. And one day he is gonna own the business, we will be so well off then. (The business folded, he just has a few customers he still cuts for)He has record and spent some time in jail. He must be super tuff, being able to survive jail and all. That is so HOT! Besides, it was all just a big misunderstanding and the charges where eventually dropped! (OM was convicted of felony B&E/theft) OM is doing the best he can as a father. His Ex-Wife is so cruel to him for not letting him spend more time with there child. (OM is several years delinquent on CS, and is only allowed to have supervised visits with his child.) Etc, Etc She fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. She belived she had found "the one". Her realizing and accepting it was all lies and fantasy, has/is taking a long time.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Was there ever any doubt? Hunny butterbean Kimmy-san ...I'm not a stupid 60-year-old. (although I did smoke a lot of mistletoe in the 60's) ... and I do have PLENTY of "how dumb was I ?" data from my sordid past ... BUT KIMMY it's a waste of time to feel "shame" over distant past events. It's a bad habit, serves ZERO purpose, and I, the wise and powerful Pep (who has your HOME ADDRESS by-the-way) am telling you to STOP it today. Great and Powerful Pep (et al), I'm okay, really. It's just that he is SUCH a nerdbomberselfishratnuggetfartknocker. The only people he truly likes is himself and our son (TG for Z's sake). I recognized him for that in year 5 and got out. Kimmy, the small and meek
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Enough about Gollum ... back to getting it on with your WIFE ...
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Oh. And it was all a deflection to make you forget that SHE is the one not wanting SF. I know
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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You do realize, Gack, that she HAD to convince HERSELF of these things so she could do what she did?
It's self delusion at it's apex.
I, too, went through it with the Wookie.
They can dress it up on a silver platter. They can TELL you it's the finest Belgin chocolate. But in the end, it's still bullchit and when they figure THAT bit out, it's a HARD pill to SWALLOW, indeed!
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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OK Gack,
In your opinion ....
Foreplay for a tired Mom = what?
"Go to bed sweetie, you need some sleep". If she is tired, I don't try for that.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Sad to say it but I think that is what some women think about themselves and project that onto their Hs. She did not think this way before the A. We had a very active sex life. 2 to 4 times a week, innitiated by her 1/2 the time. Like I said in the other thread, it was not uncommon for me to come home from work and her greet me at the door wearing nothing but a wedding ring and a smile and jump all over me. Now...... 4 times in one year.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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OK Gack,
In your opinion ....
Foreplay for a tired Mom = what?
"Go to bed sweetie, you need some sleep". If she is tired, I don't try for that. "I am going to give you the best foot massage you've ever had."
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"Have you been exercising? You look delicious."
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Kiss her eyes. (trust me)
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Kiss her hands. (the palms)
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Ok Pep, I'll play. "I am going to give you the best foot massage you've ever had." She knows I have an aversion to feet, and would find this strange "Have you been exercising? You look delicious." Stop starring at me, It's creepy. Kiss her eyes. (trust me) What are you doing, stop being weird. Stop, your tickleing me Kiss her hands. (the palms) Stop slobering on me Your creeping me out. Now understand, any of those things you mention (Except the feet) would be fine, she would enjoy it and react positivley to it.... Untill we get to the point where she realises where we might be going. Then she shuts down, and her deminour and attitude changes. The replies I gave above are from after that point of realization. This rejection hurts, so I have preaty much stoped trying.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Ahhhhhhhh
the "yes but" game.
I don't play Gack.
Find another player.
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Your M is in trouble. And it's not just the lack of sex. From Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders:
Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.
Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.
Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.
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Sorry Pep, Did not mean to trivialize your suggestions by making it a game.
My bad
I have tried 2 of those things and gotten the exact response I posted. Variations on at least two others and gotten what I replied with.
Flowers
Cards
Back/Neck messages
Complementing on her looks
Fixing her dinner
Gifts
Like I said, all that is fine. But once she realizes we might be headed towards sex, any advance, of any kind is rejected.
She turns cold, becomes curt and turse.
Anything I do is wrong after that. No matter how kind I am, no matter what I do from then on....The night is ruined.
After about an hour of this I usually just remove myself from the situation by going to bed.
Last edited by Gack1; 12/10/09 02:37 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Your M is in trouble. And it's not just the lack of sex. From Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders:
Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.
Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.
Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful. Be more clear with me, wich one is it? Is it me?
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Faith: I'm definitely not trying to make excuses. An excuse is different from a reason. I was just looking for some reason as to why is W might be feeling the way that she does. 4 times in one year isn't normal, even with a new baby. Something is definitely going on here. Gack's W almost seems to have an aversion to sex.
I go away to nurse and bathe a baby and I miss so much.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Be more clear with me, wich one is it?
Danger Zone! 
Show her that list. Freeloader. Renter. Buyer.
Discuss.
It's time for radical honesty.
Or, wait until after New Years ... You ought to intend to begin 2010 with a different set of rules.
Honesty is going to be painful - but until you're both honest with each other, the abyss between you grows wider.
I think it is OK to delay this conversation until after the birthdays and holidays ... but
she needs to know that your love for her is in DANGER and she must make efforts to keep you in love with her or you are headed the opposite way ...
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I predict SEX in 2010 within your marriage. Hey Pep--I didn't realize you had this talent to predict... would you concur that the likelihood of SEX in 2010 within my marriage is pretty dang low? Sorry for the thread jack, back to topic! 
Me:BW, FWH 1DD 1DS
Status: Chronicled in Dr. Suess's "The Zax"
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Gack,
You wrote,
The funniest, and most disturbing was when she tried to educate me on what men want. It seems I am weird for still wanting sex after marriage.
Yes it is true, I've known a number of men who were running around with affair partners who had no concern for marital sex, "tired honey just go to sleep". Thats perhaps not fair men like my BIL are perfectly content without affair partners, he goes to bawdy houses and spends his wifes money there.
For loyal men this is a problem however.
NJ
Last edited by newjersey; 12/10/09 03:10 PM.
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Gack's W almost seems to have an aversion to sex. It would seem so, but here is the part that will twist your brain. Last time we had SF was in October (after a 3 month dry spell) It's how it happened that�s odd. It's a weekday, I get up for work, she gets up at the same time because the baby woke up. She gets the baby to sleep and comes in the bathroom wile I am in the shower and brushes her teeth. This is a little odd because she normally goes back to sleep after getting the baby back to sleep in the morning. But nothing to really be concerned about. When I get out of the bathroom I check on her and she is back in bed, completely normal. (I use the hall bathroom to keep from waking/keeping her awake in the morning) I finish getting ready, then sneak in the bedroom to tell her by and give her a peck on the cheek (All this is a normal daily thing) When I do she pulls me into a kiss, tells me she loves me, kisses me again and tells me she wants a "Quickie" before I go to work. Now what the heck is up with that??? Of course I did not turn her down, but whats up with that total change!
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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she needs to know that your love for her is in DANGER and she must make efforts to keep you in love with her or you are headed the opposite way ...
I have told her this. Thats the talk that resulted in her telling me I shouldn't want SF I guess I'll try again. Thats not an easy talk, she takes everything as a criticisum and is very defensive. I must be very carefull about how I word things.
Last edited by Gack1; 12/10/09 03:31 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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I don't think you ever answered this - would your W be willing to come on this site and talk?
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Now what the heck is up with that???
Of course I did not turn her down, but whats up with that total change! Can I slap and hug you. When I read your posts, it sounds like you have your W pegged into a hole to act a certain way. What is up with wanting a quickie? Who cares as it could be a million things...just take advantage of it to create intimacy in hopes of making more intimacy...break down the walls. Since this was in Oct, did you say anything to her afterwards to lure her back into the M?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I don't think you ever answered this - would your W be willing to come on this site and talk? No, I have tried. Can I slap and hug you. Sory, I'm married When I read your posts, it sounds like you have your W pegged into a hole to act a certain way. What is up with wanting a quickie? Who cares as it could be a million things...just take advantage of it to create intimacy in hopes of making more intimacy...break down the walls. Thats what I did. Since this was in Oct, did you say anything to her afterwards to lure her back into the M? Say anything? I'm not sure what you mean.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Sory, I'm married Say anything?
I'm not sure what you mean. Even though it was a quickie, you still had chance to lure her in by telling her how much you enjoyed being with her, want more, love being close to her, etc. Given that she likely feels dettached from you and has ????? thoughts in her head about herself, it was an opportunity to reassure her and building intimacy. You don't want her walking away with the feeling that it was simply wham-bam-thank-you-maam. KWIM?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I've been thinking.
I have not really tried to get SF in a wile. Infact I have not really tried since the last time we had SF "the Quickie"
I have done the other stuff, kissing, gifts, flowers, huging, spooning, dinner out, etc, etc. I have just not tried recently to go "All the Way"
I gues I need to give it another try.
But honestly, I really don't want to.
She has preaty much conditioned me to not try.
I know last time I really tried I ended up on the back porch after she went to bed, balling my eyes out, and downing a sixpack.
Not fun
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Even though it was a quickie, you still had chance to lure her in by telling her how much you enjoyed being with her, want more, love being close to her, etc. Oh, I got ya. Yea I maid it clear I enoyed it and wanted more. You don't want her walking away with the feeling that it was simply wham-bam-thank-you-maam. KWIM? Gotcha.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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You are getting a hug whether you like it or not so suck it up. Gack, please do as Pep said and tell your W she is in danger of losing you. A marriage should not be a prison sentence. Either she will step up or she won't. Buying her flowers is not the answer. Do not be afraid to expect love and commitment.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Gack, please do as Pep said and tell your W she is in danger of losing you. I'll try and give attaining SF a few more shots over the next month. If nothing changes we will have that talk after the New-Year. Buying her flowers is not the answer. I new it was the flowers, thats just weak. Time to step it up a notch  How about DIOMONDS??  I hear they are a girls best freind 
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Save the money for the diamonds and use it towards a phone call to the Harleys.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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gack This is a reminder that recovery takes two to five years. Some WW's do the hysterical bonding thing, they been there, done that and then get the T shirt. Some WW's need at least a year before they can have SF with their BH. They don't go there, do nothing, don't want no shirt. This is just a reminder that if you can't do two to five years then it is hasta la vista baby time. Have you tried professional help. Suggest the Harley's. They have to be cheaper then paying for SF. 
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gack
This is a reminder that recovery takes two to five years. That should be the BSs recovery time. The WS goes through withdrawal, but if she is committed to recovery then she must start putting work into the marriage as soon as the worst of withdrawal is over. She does not have the right to take her time about that - not if she wants her H to stay in love with her.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Gack, You are not being very honest my man. You said Thats not an easy talk, she takes everything as a criticisum and is very defensive. I must be very carefull about how I word things. Well, telling her the SF being absent IS criticism, why hide from it. Darned right it is. But, Gack, I am thinking it isn't the missing SF that is the problem, although I am sure you miss that. What I think is missing is a W. You don't have one and right now she isn't interested in being one. So what are you going to do? You can try the plans here with the idea that it isn't an affair that is the problem but that your W has withdrawn from you. Or given your young age, you could walk, you have every reason to. OH! and please spare me "but I love her so." You may think that fidelity was the major vow she broke, but the one she really broke is that she has not loved you and is not loving you now, that she promised for the rest of her life. While physical love is part of it, the real issue is that she emotionally is not loving, she is not depositing in your love bank. You two need to have a talk, but SF isn't the big issue here. And I am saying this as a male. The big issue is that she isn't acting in a loving manner, unless you buy it. Please think about this. JL
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Sugarcane
"That should be the BSs recovery time. The WS goes through withdrawal..."
No!
It is recovery time for both. They may never recover. But you try.
Post affair the WS and the BS are both broken and in need of repair.
Which spouse is bad the one: that wants HB or does does not want HB, or wants to resume prior SF schedule or does not want SF for a year?
People are not machines. Different emotions, feelings, needs. We all heal different. Some never heal right. Neither right or wrong just the way it is.
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It is recovery time for both. They may never recover. But you try. Indeed, and this WS needs to try. Post affair the WS and the BS are both broken and in need of repair.
Which spouse is bad the one: that wants HB or does does not want HB, or wants to resume prior SF schedule or does not want SF for a year? The WS who "broke" the marriage with her affair needs to work at repairing it, just as does the BS. People are not machines. Different emotions, feelings, needs. We all heal different. Some never heal right. Neither right or wrong just the way it is. Dr Harley recommends not letting feelings and emotions govern our actions. He recommends what could be seen as a mechanical method of marital restoration: actively meeting the other's ENs, spending attentive time together, protecting the other from hurt and practising openness and honesty. He says we must do those things even though we do not feel like doing them at first. Our feelings will change fairly soon when we have mutually engaged in these acts. He uses the example of Jon and Sue (in SaA) to show how this works in practice, against our logical beliefs.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Be more clear with me, wich one is it?
Danger Zone!
Show her that list. Freeloader. Renter. Buyer.
Discuss.
It's time for radical honesty.
Or, wait until after New Years ... You ought to intend to begin 2010 with a different set of rules.
Honesty is going to be painful - but until you're both honest with each other, the abyss between you grows wider.
I think it is OK to delay this conversation until after the birthdays and holidays ... but
she needs to know that your love for her is in DANGER and she must make efforts to keep you in love with her or you are headed the opposite way ...
I LOVE PEPPERBAND.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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>I hear they are a girls best freind
YOU are her best friend and if she doesn't wake up and realize this, all the diamonds in the world mean exactly squat.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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gack
This is a reminder that recovery takes two to five years. That should be the BSs recovery time. The WS goes through withdrawal, but if she is committed to recovery then she must start putting work into the marriage as soon as the worst of withdrawal is over. She does not have the right to take her time about that - not if she wants her H to stay in love with her. SC, I would respectfully argue that when a former wayward realizes the complete devastation they have wrought, it is often time a truly crushing blow. Add to that the absolute GUILT when they realize the caliber of the person they almost lost their FAMILY for, and I would say it is an ENORMOUS blow to their self worth. Everyone has rights and that includes waywards. She has the right not to do anything if she wants...but conversely, Gack has the right to save his heart from her tromping on it anymore, too. And she knows this...but I wonder if she has any clue in the world the magnitude of what she is doing (or not doing)? The only way she will if is Gack tells her...and I don't mean offhand comments here and there...I mean sit-yore-butt-down-right-here-and-we're-havin-a-Comin-to-Jesus-serious-talk-right-now! The TRUE test (from what I've experienced and seen here) for recovery is not when one person's rights supercedes the other's. It's when BOTH pull each other up out of the miasma and assist each other in doing everything they can to help each other heal and be the best spouse's to one another they can be. While I agree with Writer that understanding the "why" of Gack's wife's aversion of sex is important, I'm MORE inclined to agree with Pep that this person has no idea the enormity of her lack of action and communication to and with Gack has in emptying his lovebank. Having lived with a man who did many of the same things that Gack's wife is doing (ex), I will tell you it empties the lovebank so fast that you don't even stopp at the point where you feel disdain for that person, you pass it without even knowing it was there, then you get to where you could give a fig less if they ever cross your shadow again. Gack, having been in your shoes and not liking how they fit, and looking back at what *I* did wrong my advice is to do EXACTLY as Pep says and lay it all out one last time. I might even list everything I needed to say so I didn't forget a thing. If what you feel and need have ANY importance to her, she will help herself to be better. I will tell you not to listen to what she says after that. Rather, I would watch what she DOES. Words mean very little when you get as far down the road as you are...only actions will help either one of you now.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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SC, I would respectfully argue that when a former wayward realizes the complete devastation they have wrought, it is often time a truly crushing blow. Add to that the absolute GUILT when they realize the caliber of the person they almost lost their FAMILY for, and I would say it is an ENORMOUS blow to their self worth.
Everyone has rights and that includes waywards. She has the right not to do anything if she wants...but conversely, Gack has the right to save his heart from her tromping on it anymore, too. Delalan-de, Of course. I would not dispute that she probably has bad feelings, and that she definitely has rights too. The point of my post was not to suggest that she had no rights and should have no feelings. I'm sorry if I wrote it like that.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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De nada SC.
I think it's me. Every time I hear "I hope he/she's kissing your a$$ now" in relation to someone staying with their (f)ws, I want to knock heads. It's THAT kind of entitlement that causes problems imo.
I'm, like, hyper sensitive to anything that might sound like only ONE person in a relationship doing all the work. It takes two in a marriage to get the rocket launched, imo.
You're better than good SC, you're wonderful.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Delean de, I was going to point out that I did not say Every time I hear "I hope he/she's kissing your a$$ now" in relation to someone staying with their (f)ws, I want to knock heads. It's THAT kind of entitlement that causes problems imo.
I'm, like, hyper sensitive to anything that might sound like only ONE person in a relationship doing all the work. It takes two in a marriage to get the rocket launched, imo. but that I said The WS who "broke" the marriage with her affair needs to work at repairing it, just as does the BS. But then you said You're better than good SC, you're wonderful. Which chuffs me mightily. Thank you, Dealan-de.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I know you didn't say it...and I realize you said the BS needs to work.
Meh. It's me, you know...that bit of me is behind in the healing so that it's always on uber sensitive mode.
It's totally me.
What is chuffs?
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Thanks everyone. Recovery is a long, slow process. It's not for everyone, and it is certainly harder than just bailing. Every BS and every WS/FWS recover diferantly, each has there own timeline. 2 to 5 yrs, yup I know. I understood that when I signed up for this gig, and I know we have not been in recovery very long. I am preaty sure I am in the anger phase, I am not sure what phase my wife is in, but it seems like she is beggining to realise what she has done....Maybee thats the begining of the guilt phase? I belive you all are correct, If this doesn't change soon then we need to have another talk about it. I am just as interested in why SF is a problem for my wife as I am in actually getting to SF. If it is masive guilt, then hey, we can work with that. If it is a lack of drive/childe/tired and just dont have the time, then we can work with that. I understand this will all take time and I am willing to put in that time. However, if her aversion to SF is that it is SF with me and not OM..... Well, I don't think I will be able to be patiant and work with that one much longer. Gack,
You are not being very honest my man. I don't understand. What am I not being honest about?
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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"""""""'I ended up on the back porch after she went to bed, balling my eyes out, and downing a sixpack."""""""""""'
now can i slap and hug ya?
i see many similarities in your situation with my own.
but it was more then the sf that was missing. it was the en's of closeness, acceptance, security, trust, love, etc that i felt thru sexual intimacty with my w that was missing.
i did all the things you are/have been doing. flowers, back rubs, kiss her hello and good bye everyday, dinner and movies, tell her how beautiful she is, good she smells.
all with no response or acknowledgement.
we had the talk many times about my love bank being empty and how it was destroying my feelings for her.
all to her response of "why do you always bring this up" and as you guessed, to no avail.
we struggled for many years, i withdrew from the back rubs and everything else. stopped asking, trying and even wanting that form of contact from her or with her.
i was actually contemplating leaving the marriage after 7 years of effort since the A and nearly 30 years of marriage. which we just celebrated that mile stone last week.
finally i sent her an email. i wish i could find it and i would copy it here but unfortunately it has been deleted into cyberspace. basically it said all the things that "the talk" was about.
that i love her and always have, what she means to me and how i feel with this important en not being fulfilled. that afer all that we have been thru i have started giving serious consideration of leaving, that i would rather live apart from her then be tormented daily with her lack of affection towards me.
things have been improving steadily since
imho i see the problem as the same with your w as with mine. you have stayed and tried to forgive, repair and rebuild your marriage after something that she can not imagine you tolerating. so she has become insensative to your needs. maybe not consiously.
she is still in the "me" stage. thinking of what she needs to get past the guilt, embarrassment, selfworth and depression that goes with relazation of dropping this bomb on your marriage. she doesn't think you will ever leave.
now this is not to be misinterpreted as a ploy. i was seriously considering leaving. it was not an attempt to try and call her bluff.
somehow you have to get your w to realize exactly how damaging this is to your relationship before she will "get it"
for mine it guess it was seeing it in writing (i think, hope, pray)
wishing you the best
Last edited by pops; 12/11/09 11:06 AM.
me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
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she has become insensative to your needs. I think this is stating it too mildly. I think she has contempt for his needs ands is openly hostile. Gack wants to know "why". (insert various explanations ranging from hormones to mother-hood to still smoldering feelings for Gollum, etc etc etc) I say: Because she does not love you enough right now to care if you are getting your needs met or not."
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she has become insensative to your needs. I think this is stating it too mildly. I think she has contempt for his needs ands is openly hostile. Gack wants to know "why". (insert various explanations ranging from hormones to mother-hood to still smoldering feelings for Gollum, etc etc etc) I say: Because she does not love you enough right now to care if you are getting your needs met or not." Pep, you may be on to something here. This thread is starting to open my eyes to certain things. Gack, I think you should have that very frank and honest discussion with your W as soon as possible, before your frustration and resentment grow even more.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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she has become insensative to your needs. I think this is stating it too mildly. I think she has contempt for his needs ands is openly hostile. Gack wants to know "why". (insert various explanations ranging from hormones to mother-hood to still smoldering feelings for Gollum, etc etc etc) I say: Because she does not love you enough right now to care if you are getting your needs met or not." ITA.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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You are not being honest for the very reasons I and surely Pep is explaining to you. You are not telling her where you really are. You are afraid it will sound like criticizing her. Well, some of her behaviors need criticism. However, other aspects of this are about how YOU see things, and I don't think you are expressing that very clearly if at all to her.
Her SF issues are her problems to fix IF she decides to. Your job is not to fix them.
JL
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OK Gack,
In your opinion ....
Foreplay for a tired Mom = what?
I'll take a shot at this... 1. Run a nice hot bath 2. Put on some mood music 3. A nice glass of wine for her 4. The silk robe 4a. While she's in the tub, do the dishes. 5. Once she's out of the tub, at least an hour long full body massage from the scalp to the toes 6. During the massage, talk to her! 7. Then, SF will be like a volcano erupting for both parties!
Me BH 49 WXW 50
Married 1998
DS 2002
DD 2005
D Day 1 7/28/08
D Day 2 8/19/08
Divorce Final 3/19/2009
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After reading this thread, there is a theme that is really bothering me about Gack's FWW. While it is VERY admirable that Gack has taken the OC as his own, his WW's lack of desire for intimacy is a huge red flag to me that she really had no intention of salvaging the marriage. What this means for Gack is in the eyes of the court, he is the father of the child. Thus, if they divorce, he'll most likely be paying child support if he does not get primary residency.
His FWW knows she did something really, really, dumb. But, she was smart enough to not to run from the marriage and thus have Gack listed as the father and not Yardboy. If they divorce, she knows Gack is on the hook for financially supporting the child.
This may be the cynic in me (having your wife leave you for her 50 year old unemployed 2nd cousin who has no teeth does this to you) but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Gack and WW end up divorcing, Lawnmower Boy is all of a sudden back in the picture. He knows Gack's WW would have a steady income courtesy of Gack.
Me BH 49 WXW 50
Married 1998
DS 2002
DD 2005
D Day 1 7/28/08
D Day 2 8/19/08
Divorce Final 3/19/2009
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Gack,
PSUB is scary. I would check how long you have to dispute paternity in your state.
Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
D 18
D 16
S, S 13 (twins)
Grandson 8 months
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This subject is what every single one of my threads turns into. So I am really sad to see it go this way.
(And it is the reason I almost never post a thread about me)
Barring some crazy judge who is on a mission to punish men...
In the event we where to divorce, as long as I protested paternity as a part of that divorce, I would not be held liable for C.S., but I would also loose all parental rights.
I have spoken to two, well respected lawyers about this.
This state has some new and rather progressive paternaty laws when it comes to men, marriage and there liabilities for an O.C.
So it would suck in that I might never see the baby again, but I also would not be paying C.S. to wife and whoever else for an O.C.
OK, flame away!
As far as S.F. goes...
This weekend was preaty good for us as far as affection goes. We where extreamly busy (Baby sick, family commitments, decorating, etc) but I get the feeling had we had the time and energy, SF may have actually accured naturally.
Last edited by Gack1; 12/14/09 12:15 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Gack: For what it's worth, I don't think that's what your W is trying to do at all. I think some people have just been burned pretty badly and they fear that the same thing may happen to others.
Lack of intimacy does not automatically mean that your W doesn't want to salvage the M and that she's just biding her time, waiting for a chance to D you and collect her CS so she can run off with yard boy. It could mean that, but since things seem to be going well in your relationship other than the SF, it probably doesn't. There are many possible explanations for what is going on, and the only real way to find out is to sit down and have that honest talk with your W.
To put it out there, my H and I are having the same sort of problems and I honestly don't know why. I have no problems showing affection to him, but the SF has been an issue for awhile now. He doesn't push the issue much, but I'm sure it must bother him. I really want things to improve in this area of our relationship too, but it's difficult, because I don't really know why the desire just doesn't seem to be there anymore.
Glad you had a better weekend. Hope the baby is feeling better soon. My LO was sick this weekend too.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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writer1, you say that the only way to find out is to sit down and have an honest talk, but if your H tried to do this with you, what would you say?
(I think you have been really helpful on these boards. Absolutely no criticism intended.)
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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There are many possible explanations for what is going on, and the only real way to find out is to sit down and have that honest talk with your W. We did talk a little about it. Well, not SF specifically, but about her looks. You may have been on to something when you stated she may not feel attractive. She told me Saturday night during a conversation about clothes, that she is fat, and that she is pale, and flabby, and never has time to dress nicely, or do her hair, etc, etc, etc. I told her I disagreed with her. She is not fat, she weighs less than she did before the baby. However this is mostly due to a loss of muscle mass (No time/energy to work out) but she is nowhere near fat. She is not flabby, she has a "Normal" amount of padding, she just doesn't have as much muscle as she had before. All this can easily be fixed later. She is pale, but so. It's winter, we did not spend as much time out in the sun this year as most, and she doesn't have time to go lay in a tanning bed like she use to. As far as hair and clothes, looks like I may need to find a sitter for one evening this coming weekend. Now I did not tell her what I wrote above, I just told her I though she looked great. (I listened and empathized, I did not try to fix) and I think she felt a little better afterwards. To put it out there, my H and I are having the same sort of problems and I honestly don't know why. Then who does? Hope the baby is feeling better soon. Me too. Pink eye + Common cold (Rhino Virus) = Grumpy baby.
Last edited by Gack1; 12/14/09 01:27 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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SC: My H and I have discussed the issue quite a bit. I don't mind talking about the problem at all. In fact, often, I'm the one who brings it up. My H is very laid-back, type B, go-with-the-flow, so I'm usually the one who has to bring up most of the issues in our M.
Gack: I don't know who would know if I don't. I have a few theories about some of the things that may be getting in the way, but they're kind of embarrassing and personal. My H and I have discussed the issues, but discussing things and actually finding a solution are two different things. I think I know what some of the problems may be, but I don't know what to do about them.
Grumpy, common-cold inflicted baby here too.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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There comes a time in every marriage where there is a valid reason for a lack of SF. In a loving relationship, the affection continues to be expressed despite the lack of SF.
If expressions of affection and care are lacking ... it's a bad sign.
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Gack1.. You have my respect for the way you have "handled" things in your life and the way you seek help from others here. If there is one thing I can tell you about women - or people, in general..it is that they hate to be "pushed". Do I think you are being pushy or expecting too much? No way.. but by being pushed, I simply mean that she most likely knows your feelings and is possibly becoming a bit more resentful of this expectation in her mind. My best guess for you is to work on her self-esteem in a sly fashion. Slip in those "you are my beautiful woman" types of "sillys" then give her a peck on the check and go about your business.. Make her feel attractive without looking like you are working too hard at it. Is it fair after all you've been through? Nope...but women are creatures of admiration. We admire pretty things and we like to be admired. Best of luck to you..you are a fine gentleman Eibrab
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i don't know what the answer is but many of the things mentioned here were problems for my w.
she felt self conscious because her body has changed as we have aged
tired from long hours at work
exhausted from the seemingly constant hassles of raising a large family
stressed over our finances
stressed over the om constantly taking her back to court
doesn't feel she has the time to pamper herself
like i said since i sent her the email things have been getting better
also we have found a time (sunday morns) to sleep in and enjoy each other, not always sf, alot of just snuggling up, reading the paper, talking about life, etc
it has gotten her more into the mood
i am guessing she still has many many issues from all you 2 have been thru in the last year. and with that 1st b-day coming it probably has added more weight on those issues
i know it's frustrating as all get out but hang in there and i am sure your w will come around
me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
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W1
"To put it out there, my H and I are having the same sort of problems and I honestly don't know why. I have no problems showing affection to him, but the SF has been an issue for awhile now. He doesn't push the issue much, but I'm sure it must bother him. I really want things to improve in this area of our relationship too, but it's difficult, because I don't really know why the desire just doesn't seem to be there anymore."
�DS: 20, 17, 15
DD: 18
OC: 13 mos.
In R, NC since 09/01/09. BH and I are raising my OC together.�
In many a WS mind the A was over when the last time they had SF with the OP.
But when W1 came here on 10/22/2009 she was still looking to justify having contact with her OM.
Problem is a WS can not go through withdrawal until NC starts. Feelings for the OP can not be lost until NC happens. Then the feelings do not disappear the same way as lights are with a flick of the switch for most. Thus the need for withdrawal up to a year.
Remember the WS has to convince themselves that the OP was worthy of having SF with themselves and their BS was not.
Now that the PA is over the WW has to resolve that their BH that was not worthy of SF with them now is. Easier said then done because of the many issues that have to be addressed. From a sense of betraying the OP, they have to admit the OP was not all they thought them to be, the need to feel unworthy and punish themselves, etc�
W1, during you�re PA did you ever have any periods where you cut off BH from SF?
Gack, during your WW PA did your WW cut off SF with her for you?
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>the feeling had we had the time and energy, SF may have actually accured naturally
As a mama to some Littles that are becoming Biggers every day, I can attest that when your Little gets Bigger it is A LOT easier to get your 15 hours in AS WELL AS your beauty rest.
There is hope as far as that bit goes.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Just a minor point: writer came here before October 2009. Her original thread was lost in the meltdown. That being said, I think it was only a couple of months before.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I originally came here in early Sept. I think the last contact I had with OM was around the end of August, beginning of Sept. We had a phone conversation where we basically discussed the fact that NC would probably be the best for everyone involved in our circumstance. Prior to that phone conversation, I was sending OM updates on the baby - pretty much an email every time she had a doctor's appointment telling him how much she weighed and how she was doing. That's what we had agreed to when the baby was born, so that's what I was doing. My H knew about the email updates and approved. I didn't know about MB then. The concept of NC seemed like a natural one, but I didn't think it was entirely possible to do with an OC involved. I see things differently now.
And no, in Oct., I was not still trying to justify having contact with OM. That would have been very early Sept.
TR, to answer your question about SF, my H and I were probably having it about as often during my PA as we did before, which is to say, not all that often. We've had difficulties in this area for a quite sometime now, long before the start of my A.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Gack, during your WW PA did your WW cut off SF with her for you? Yes, she also cut out all physical affection. So much as a peck on the cheek was too much for her to deal with. Same thing would happen every time she broke NC. I figured out long ago this was becouse she felt like she was cheating on OM
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Gack,
You are staying with her why?
I would have to say that after my Wifes EA 20 years ago our sex life never recovered to what it was before the EA. After the EA my Wife would very very rarely initiate, and it was only my attraction for my Wife that kept us having sex.
So while your Wife might come back to you, there is a possibility it might never come back to the same qualitative level you once had.
NJ
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"I were probably having it about as often during my PA as we did before, which is to say, not all that often. "
Why?
Mismatched sex drives, physical, mental?
Did you want SF with BH during the PA?
Did you try to avoid SF with BH during the PA?
Was the SF with the BH during the affair only because BH initiated it?
Were you able to separate the OM and the affair when you had SF with BH?
Why do you think there are SF problems now?
Last edited by TheRoad; 12/15/09 08:06 PM.
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"I were probably having it about as often during my PA as we did before, which is to say, not all that often. "
Why?
Mismatched sex drives, physical, mental?
Did you want SF with BH during the PA?
Did you try to avoid SF with BH during the PA?
Was the SF with the BH during the affair only because BH initiated it?
Were you able to separate the OM and the affair when you had SF with BH?
Why do you think there are SF problems now? 1. Why? Lots of reasons, I suppose. Mismatched sex drive was probably a big contributing factor, but SF was probably a little more frequent then than it is now. 2. Did I want SF with BH during PA? Sometimes, yes. I was very conflicted. As my PA progressed, I had decided that I wanted a D. At that point, H and I didn't have SF for 2 months because I did feel as though I was cheating on OM, since we were talking about getting married after our D's. Messed up, I know, but that's where my head was at the time. 3. Did I try to avoid SF with BH during PA. Other than that 2 months, no. 4. Was the SF with BH during the A because BH initiated it? Probably, for the most part. 5. Was I able to separate the OM and the A when I had SF with BH? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I felt very guilty. It felt wrong to have SF with the OM because I was M. It felt wrong to have SF with my H because of my A. The entire thing was very wrong and caused me a great deal of conflict. 6. Why are there SF problems now? Lots of reasons. Mismatched sex drives, baby with crazy sleep habits, physical problems (mine) from giving birth to 5 babies, physical problems (H) that have been ongoing for sometime, H that gets up at 4:30 in the morning to go to work and rarely gets more than 5 hours of sleep a night.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Time will slowly lessen the impact of the affair.
What can you do to get BH more sleep?
Why 5 hours, doe this mean he goes to bed late, why not go off earlier?
If he starts early does he get done early enogh for a nap before diner, after diner?
Are health issues being addressed?
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physical problems (mine) from giving birth to 5 babies, physical problems (H) that have been ongoing for sometime, Can you elaberate on these?
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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TR: My H insists he doesn't need more sleep, but I honestly don't see how he gets by on so little. I do let him sleep in late on the weekends, so he catches up some there, and sometimes he will take a nap when he gets home from work. But we do stay up too late I'm afraid. We have a pretty tiny house and our teens don't like to go to bed too early and the baby is in a bad habit and stays up until 10 or so. We need to work on getting into bed earlier.
Gack: I don't want to get too graphic, but my first birth was quite traumatic. I was very young (18) and very tiny (size 1) and the baby's heart rate dropped dramatically while I was in labor. My doctor wanted to perform a C-section, but the maternity ward only had one OR and they were delivering twins in there when my son went into distress. My doctor didn't feel like we could wait, so he delivered the baby with the vacuum and forceps, even though he was much too big and I was much too small. I ended up with a massive episiotomy and very bad tearing. I healed eventually, but a few years later, this led to some long term problems. I now have a rectocele, cystocele, and prolapsed uterus. You can look them up, if you'd like, but basically, all my pelvic floor muscles are shot and nothing is where it's supposed to be. There's a surgery to correct the problems, but often, it leads to even more sexual issues, so I'm not in too big of a hurry to go the route. Eventually, I will have no choice, as my condition has gotten worse as I've aged and will continue to do so.
My H has had some issues with ED. One of them (premature-E) has been ongoing throughout our M. The other (impotence) has become more of a problem over the past several years, and isn't all the time, but it does happen. He's gone to the doctor and had tests done and tried a few different medications, but we haven't been able to pinpoint a cause and the medications don't really help all that much.
Sorry if this is TMI.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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I ended up with a massive episiotomy and very bad tearing. I healed eventually, but a few years later, this led to some long term problems. I now have a rectocele, cystocele, and prolapsed uterus. You can look them up, if you'd like, but basically, all my pelvic floor muscles are shot and nothing is where it's supposed to be. Ok, how does this affect SF for you? My H has had some issues with ED. One of them (premature-E) has been ongoing throughout our M. The other (impotence) has become more of a problem over the past several years, and isn't all the time, but it does happen. He's gone to the doctor and had tests done and tried a few different medications, but we haven't been able to pinpoint a cause and the medications don't really help all that much. Has he tried the blue "V" ?
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Does BH do aerobic exercise such as running?
Got to have good circulation to pump enough blood to inflate BH's toy.
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My problems often make SF uncomfortable or even painful at times.
Yes, my H has tried quite a few of those pills. Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra. They help somewhat with the impotence problem, but don't do much of anything for the other problem.
I have long suspected that my A began mostly from a desire to have SF that lasted more than a minute. Our MC thought it had more to do with my H's EA. I now think it was a combination of the two. When I began my A, it really was only a PA in my mind, but being a girl and all, I went and got emotionally attached. I didn't feel "in love" with the OM when my A began at all. I just wanted SF, pure and simple. The emotional stuff followed. This probably makes me a bit unusual as far as WW's go, but that's how it happened.
I'm not proud of the person I was back then. It makes me feel sleazy just talking about this now. If I had stopped for just one minute and considered the ramifications of what I was doing.... But I didn't. I gave in to my selfish desires, and so many people have paid a heavy price because of that.
My H and I have problems. My A certainly didn't solve them. It just gave us more problems, much worse than the ones we were dealing with in the first place.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Gack:
I believe that the affair is having a significant effect on your wife, but I would not discount the effects of birth on the anatomy, as writer describes. (A minority of births, of course; most women recover very well, although we never believe that we will, after what we deliver!)
The problem is compounded by the fact that we do not want to describe these problems to our Hs, so we hope they will get better with exercise and time, and meanwhile try to avoid penetration (which means avoiding any affection, for many). We believe that TMI will kill any attraction our H has to us, forever, so we do not talk to them about it.
The problems do not have to be as serious as writer's (whose are very serious indeed). Both my deliveries were quick and easy, yet the second one left me with a lack of confidence. I have dramatically improved the tone of the area with tough exercise, namely running, but if there are the beginnings of problems like writer describes, then no degree of exercise is going to cure them. I can see how a woman would not want to get intimate with those problems, which will be obvious to her H the moment he goes near the area.
Well, you did ask!
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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My problems often make SF uncomfortable or even painful at times. I have long suspected that my A began mostly from a desire to have SF that lasted more than a minute. Our MC thought it had more to do with my H's EA. I now think it was a combination of the two. When I began my A, it really was only a PA in my mind, These two statments make no sense when used by the same person. Infact, the first should negate the second, or the second causes doubt about the validity of the first. Either way, they should be mutually exclusive. Yes, my H has tried quite a few of those pills. Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra. They help somewhat with the impotence problem, but don't do much of anything for the other problem. Really? I would think Viagra would completly negate E.D. and make P.E. unimportant. (Just keep on going after the P.E.)
Last edited by Gack1; 12/16/09 02:31 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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My problems often make SF uncomfortable or even painful at times. I have long suspected that my A began mostly from a desire to have SF that lasted more than a minute. Our MC thought it had more to do with my H's EA. I now think it was a combination of the two. When I began my A, it really was only a PA in my mind, These two statments make no sense when used by the same person. Infact, the first should negate the second, or the second causes doubt about the validity of the first. Either way, they should be mutually exclusive. Yes, my H has tried quite a few of those pills. Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra. They help somewhat with the impotence problem, but don't do much of anything for the other problem. Really? I would think Viagra would completly negate E.D. and make P.E. unimportant. (Just keep on going after the P.E.)In answer to your first statement, my condition was present before I had my last baby, but I didn't really have any symptoms. When I had my OC in Sept. 08, I had a 3rd degree tear - not as bad as my first delivery, but still pretty bad. The pain and discomfort have only been present since then. As far as the meds, they don't work quite the way they are advertised, at least not in our case. My H can't keep going after he experiences P.E. He loses his erection, just like most men would who weren't taking the drugs.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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In answer to your first statement, my condition was present before I had my last baby, but I didn't really have any symptoms. When I had my OC in Sept. 08, I had a 3rd degree tear - not as bad as my first delivery, but still pretty bad. The pain and discomfort have only been present since then. Forgive me, but........... Sounds like another "Happy" side affect of your affair! I know that sounds a bit sarcastic and mean, but from a BS's point of view.. A little discomfort is a small price to pay to help alleviate the pain of a BS. As far as the meds, they don't work quite the way they are advertised, at least not in our case. My H can't keep going after he experiences P.E. He loses his erection, just like most men would who weren't taking the drugs. Huh, that sucks. Have you tried a higher dose?
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Well, Gack, I'm very fortunate that my H has more regard for my physical well-being than that. You see, he cares about all of our relationship, not just the SF, and that kind of attitude would not be very beneficial to the overall well-being of our M. SF really is a very small part of a relationship.
We aren't currently using any medications because we can't afford them. Even with our insurance, it was more than $10 a pill. That's a little steep for us right now.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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SF really is a very small part of a relationship. From a mans point of view... I respectfully, and whole heartedly disagree. Allmost all men rate SF as there #1 emotional need. We aren't currently using any medications because we can't afford them. Even with our insurance, it was more than $10 a pill. That's a little steep for us right now. Wow!!! That is steep, but it would be well worth the money for most men.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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In fact, my H has filled out the EN questionnaire and it is not his #1 EN. I think it was around #4 or #5, but I would have to go back and make sure on that one.
When you're struggling to pay the bills, $80 for a bottle of 6 little pills just doesn't make sense, especially when your life doesn't depend on them.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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"I have long suspected that my A began mostly from a desire to have SF that lasted more than a minute. Our MC thought it had more to do with my H's EA. I now think it was a combination of the two. When I began my A, it really was only a PA in my mind, but being a girl and all, I went and got emotionally attached. I didn't feel "in love" with the OM when my A began at all. I just wanted SF, pure and simple. The emotional stuff followed."
There are techniques and therapists that can help with PE. You and H should look into it.
You were not the only WW that started an A because of just wanting extra SF. Thank you for being honest and sharing.
Being the affair resulted with an OC was protection ever used?
My guess when it was just SF you used protection, when emotions kicked in for OM protection was stopped.
Did OM push you to not use protection?
In short how did the protection issue unfold?
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We used protection sporadically at best. Actually, since my H had a vasectomy many years ago, protection wasn't something I ever thought about much. OM was diagnosed with a low sperm count, and he and his W had trouble conceiving their two daughters, so I didn't worry about it much at first.
More honesty now. As the A progressed and I found myself more and more torn between my H and OM, I really wanted something, anything, to happen that would push me off the pendulum. In the last month of my A, I told my H definitively that I wanted a D and told OM that I wanted to be with him. Then, on my wedding anniversary, my H and I spent the day together and I started having doubts again. I thought I wanted to work on my M. But, I was due to go back to Vermont for my next residency in a matter of days and OM and I already had plans to stay together off-campus in a hotel. After all, my M was "over," or so I had thought when I made the plans. But then, suddenly, my M wasn't so "over" and I realized I still had feelings for my H. I was so confused. I should never have gone to the residency, but I did go, and it rekindled my feelings for the OM. Our PA started again after a few days together, and then I didn't use protection on purpose. I was hoping to get pregnant, because I was "in love" with the OM again and I wanted something that would push me to make a decision and finally have the courage to leave my H. Problem was, those feelings for OM that caused me to act so recklessly while I was in Vermont disappeared almost as soon as I returned home, and my feelings for my H grew even stronger. But it was too late. The damage had already been done. I held my breath for a few weeks, hoping I would get lucky and I wouldn't be pregnant, but my period never came and I finally took a test and it was positive. By then, I had already told the OM that I intended to stay and work on my M.
So, there's the awful truth. In my foggy, confused state, I got pregnant on purpose. It's horrible, I know.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Wow, W1 thank you for your honesty. How long did it take for you to tell your H you got pg on purpose? He must be one heck of a guy!
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Faith: It took me a long time to realize it myself. It wasn't a conscious thing, and I didn't totally realize that's what I was doing at the time. Of course, I knew I was having unprotected sex with OM, but I didn't realize I was doing it with the hope that I would get pregnant. It took me a long time to come to terms with that. So, my H found out about it as I figured it out, which took awhile.
And yes, he's a heck of a guy.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Also thanks for being open.
Did the OM ever balk at using protection?
Did OM encourage you to not use protection?
In other words how did the OM handle the protection issue?
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Wow, W1 thank you for your honesty. x2 Also thanks for being open. x2 I knew I was having unprotected sex with OM, but I didn't realize I was doing it with the hope that I would get pregnant. But you did understand that there was a high likleyhood of this, correct?
Last edited by Gack1; 12/17/09 10:08 AM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Just FYI, everyone,
I asked writer some of these questions on her own thread on this forum, since this discussion now is about her and not Gack, and this is Gack's thread. You might care to look in over there.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I don't mind, either way is good with me.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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The OM bought protection, but it wasn't used on a regular basis. I think OM was hoping that I would get pregnant because that would be the incentive he thought I would need to make the break from my H so that we could be together. It wasn't something we really talked about at the time, but from conversations that occurred after I learned that I was pregnant, I think that is what was going through his mind at the time.
And yes, Gack, I was very aware of the risks I was taking. I was a big girl, and I knew all about where babies came from. I have no clue why it seemed, at the time, like a good idea to mess around with something that would have such serious consequences for so many people. Obviously, I wasn't thinking clearly at all and made a lot of bad decisions.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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And yes, Gack, I was very aware of the risks I was taking. I was a big girl, and I knew all about where babies came from. I just don't get this. But.... Back to the lack of SF.... Yup, still lacking!
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Gack: Have you had that talk with your W yet?
We can sit here and speculate about what's going on into eternity, but the only real way to know how your W is feeling and why SF seems to be such a problem for her is to ask.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Talks are good.
Actions are better.
The lack of sex is not as troubling as the lack of care and affection.
I'd begin any talks focusing on the lack of care and affection.
Tell wife you deserve expressions of care and affection in your M on a daily basis.
Give her at least 3 examples of how you'd like her to demonstrate care and affection towards you. (none of them SF at this time, that's for the future)
Just my 2 cents
PS:
Then ask for 3 examples of how she'd like you to express care and affection towards her.
Last edited by Pepperband; 12/17/09 11:46 AM. Reason: adding the PS
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Gack: Have you had that talk with your W yet? Not yet. The lack of sex is not as troubling as the lack of care and affection. What lack of care and affection?
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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What lack of care and affection? Pretty much this entire post: Ok Pep, I'll play.
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
"I am going to give you the best foot massage you've ever had."
She knows I have an aversion to feet, and would find this strange
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
"Have you been exercising? You look delicious."
Stop starring at me, It's creepy.
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Kiss her eyes. (trust me)
What are you doing, stop being weird.
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Kiss her neck.
Stop, your tickleing me
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Kiss her hands. (the palms)
Stop slobering on me
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
"You taste good."
Your creeping me out.
This rejection hurts, so I have preaty much stoped trying. Show me the care and affection ...
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Show me the care and affection ... I understand. Thanks Pep
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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anywho ... mine is merely a suggestion.
Take care you!
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Gack,
I'm asking this seriously. Why are you staying in this marriage? I would normally think you should take alot of time to decide what is right but you are involving the affections of an innocent child in this.
Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
D 18
D 16
S, S 13 (twins)
Grandson 8 months
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Gack, I'm asking this seriously. Why are you staying in this marriage? Because it is what I choose. I don't really know what kind of an answer you are looking for. A list of reasons perhaps? I would normally think you should take alot of time to decide what is right, but you are involving the affections of an innocent child in this. I know your trying to tell me somthing, but I am just not getting it. Are you saying the OC will be better off if I end the marriage?
Last edited by Gack1; 12/17/09 02:00 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Gack,
Yes I am looking for something like a list of reasons. I am saying that if your reasons are not substantial and enduring that you could hurt the child more later if you "choose" that this is not the right thing.
Your because it is what I choose does seem a little flippant.
Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
D 18
D 16
S, S 13 (twins)
Grandson 8 months
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Who is supposed to choose if he doesn't?
Look. When you are in THIS situation it is IMPERATIVE that you weigh ALL of the options and make your choice be the one with the least amount of nuclear fallout for everyone - including yourself.
There are no guarentees here.
Nothing has been guarenteed by humans is ever written in stone.
What if Gack leaves later?
What if his wife does?
What if the child throws "yer not my daddy" in his face?
What if he doesn't?
Do you see?
You can't make your decision on what ifs. You can only make it with the knowledge you have at that point in the space time continuum...and in this situation, you do so with the weight of your LIVES and another little life resting upon your pointed little head. So you weigh ALL of it and jump and hope you chose wisely.
IMO, that is all ANYONE should expect one to do.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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it is IMPERATIVE that you weigh ALL of the options and make your choice be the one with the least amount of nuclear fallout for everyone - including yourself. I was looking for some insight into how he weighed those options. Usually BS's get years to get their head straight and it really only hurts the WS if they later decide that they can't do it. In that case I say the WS earned the hurt. An OC obviously has not earned any hurt.
Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
D 18
D 16
S, S 13 (twins)
Grandson 8 months
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6years: If there are any COM's, they also get hurt. Kids get hurt in divorces, whether they are OC's or COM's. So, in the case of an A without an OC, if the BS takes years to get their head on straight and then decides to end the M because of the A, the COM's will get hurt, not just the WS. D rarely only negatively impacts one person.
If only we could all have a crystal ball and predict the future. I'm guessing that Gack is staying because he loves his W and wants to make his M work.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Dunno about Gack but I considered what the OCs lives would be like if I WASN'T around and the outlook was scary.
The children NEEDED a role model that wasn't a drinker/barhoppin'/person who didn't think twice about wrecking other people's lives as long as she got what she wanted.
No one else was stepping up. It HAD to be me.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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"Are you saying the OC will be better off if I end the marriage?"
No it is not just the OC that has to be considered.
You, WW, COM, the family as a whole. It's great that you are attempting to recover. There are no guarantees in life. You figure out the costs. Then you just make your choices.
Gack, your OC was born 12/30/08. You are coming up on OC's first birthday.
Are you happy to be raising the OC?
Are you happy your family is together for your COM?
Are you happy you still have the opportunity to recover your marriage?
Depending on your answers then you make your decision.
Your are mad that WW did OM every which way and you can't get anything.
Pouting in front of your WW is not going to get you any action. OR is being angry. She came back for a reason. You need to court her again. She has to feel forgiven and wanted.
Can you afford a MB weekend, phone counseling. I guess we are not giving you the tools needed, or you can't use them.
When your wheels are spinning it's time to put it into 4WD. Or you will just keep digging yourself deeper into the hole.
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6years: If there are any COM's, they also get hurt. Kids get hurt in divorces, whether they are OC's or COM's. So, in the case of an A without an OC, if the BS takes years to get their head on straight and then decides to end the M because of the A, the COM's will get hurt, not just the WS. D rarely only negatively impacts one person.
If only we could all have a crystal ball and predict the future. I'm guessing that Gack is staying because he loves his W and wants to make his M work. There are no COM in Gack's case. I have to agree with 6yr here...love is not always enough and having OC as the one and only child may make things more difficult. Gack, what is your timeline? It sounds like you are avoiding the talk.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Looking that gack is 32, young.
No COM, Doc H states in this case it usually would be better for the BH to bow out and let both bio parents raise the OC.
Maybe his WW is pushing him to seek a divorce so WW can say it was gack's fault the marriage ended. Gack filed for divorce.
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course, but Gack didn't start this thread to ask whether or not he should leave his W. He started it looking for help with a specific problem (SF) that he is having in his M.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Hi Writer,
I know why he started the thread, and for once I had read some of his past so I knew no COM (took me a while to figure that one out). When I saw that there were already problems with SF and affection & intimacy I began to wonder why he was staying.
So I asked.
Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
D 18
D 16
S, S 13 (twins)
Grandson 8 months
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Wow.... This thread looks like it is taking a turn. Why am I attempting recovery... I assume "I love her" is not a good reason. Ok, how about this. I have looked at all the Data, pree marriage, post marriage, pree A, post A, and right up untill now. I looked at the things I did that allowed the possability of the A happening. I have looked at the horrible things that where done durring the A. I have looked at everything, and weather you agree or not, this also includes my emotions and what I want. I want to have the oppertunity to fix my marriage, and I belive we have a chance. I am commited to recovery, as her fog has cleared my wife is become more commited to recovery. However, that commitment does not mean I don't wish things where going faster. Recovery is slow, and hard... and accasionaly I just need to gripe and vent about it. I do that here. So I may come across all gloom and doom in my posts, but that�s not the case. My biggest problem at the moment is SF, most of my other needs are being met, and as time goes by she is meeting them more and more. I also have a lot of work to do on myself. I was really, really bad about LB�s before the A, I am working very hard on elliminating these, learning what her EN�s are and making as many LB deposits with as few withdrawels as possible. Am I 100% sure this will work�.. That�s not entirely up to me, but I belive we have a shot. Gack, your OC was born 12/30/08. You are coming up on OC's first birthday.
Are you happy to be raising the OC? I love the child very much. She is a wonderfull, happy baby, and I enjoy having her in my life. I just hate �How� she got to be there. Are you happy your family is together for your COM? No COM (Yet) but I am happy my family is together. Are you happy you still have the opportunity to recover your marriage? Yes Pouting in front of your WW is not going to get you any action. OR is being angry. She came back for a reason. You need to court her again. She has to feel forgiven and wanted. I understand. When your wheels are spinning it's time to put it into 4WD. Or you will just keep digging yourself deeper into the hole. Indeede
Last edited by Gack1; 12/18/09 11:48 AM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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6years: If there are any COM's, they also get hurt. Kids get hurt in divorces, whether they are OC's or COM's. So, in the case of an A without an OC, if the BS takes years to get their head on straight and then decides to end the M because of the A, the COM's will get hurt, not just the WS. D rarely only negatively impacts one person.
If only we could all have a crystal ball and predict the future. I'm guessing that Gack is staying because he loves his W and wants to make his M work. Gack, what is your timeline? It sounds like you are avoiding the talk. As I stated earlier in this thread, I am going to give SF a few more tries, if there is no change by the first of the year, Then we will have another talk. Looking that gack is 32, young.
No COM, Doc H states in this case it usually would be better for the BH to bow out Dr. Harley never speaks in absolutes when it comes to the decisions a BS should make. and let both bio parents raise the OC. The best thing for OC is to keep her as far away from OM as possible. Maybe his WW is pushing him to seek a divorce so WW can say it was gack's fault the marriage ended. Gack filed for divorce. I don't think thats it. For the most part our only hurtle is SF. Dunno about Gack but I considered what the OCs lives would be like if I WASN'T around and the outlook was scary. Same here.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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If still want to recover then go for it.
Does the OM know about the OC?
Did the OM just give up the OC?
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I very much admire what you are doing Gack. It is a long road indeed, and I do think having an OC makes it longer. I think I stayed in my fog much longer because of the link the OC provided between myself and the OM. But NC weakens that link, even with an OC. I'm beginning to see that now, and I think it will become more and more evident with time.
I think you and your W definitely have a shot at a fully-recovered M and I wish you all the best.
Is your name on the BC or is OM's? I don't remember if you mentioned that before.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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2010 may be better than 2009 (And it can�t suck much worse than 2008)We are only on the 4rth day of the year and we have already had SF 1/4 as many times as last year. But it is weird, she wanted me to "finish" before I really wanted to. This has been a common theme since about a year before she left me/had her A, and continues today. She gave me a reason for this before the A, but it is hard for me to believe, and is kinda graphic/embarrassing. (And just sounds silly)I am going to talk to her soon about why we have not been having it very often and see what reasons (If any) she gives. Since SF things have gone pretty good. She is even a little flirtatious with me again and is even more touchy feely. I hope these are all good signs.
Last edited by Gack1; 01/04/10 03:36 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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But it is weird, she wanted me to "finish" before I really wanted to. This has been a common theme since about a year before she left me/had her A, and continues today.
She gave me a reason for this before the A, but it is hard for me to believe, and is kinda graphic/embarrassing.
(And just sounds silly) This is disturbing. No need to get into details but this is worrisome. Don't let "soon" get away from you.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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This is disturbing. No need to get into details but this is worrisome. Explain, what are your thoughts?
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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But it is weird, she wanted me to "finish" before I really wanted to. This has been a common theme since about a year before she left me/had her A, and continues today.
She gave me a reason for this before the A, but it is hard for me to believe, and is kinda graphic/embarrassing.
(And just sounds silly) Shes not really connected yet Gack1. Just keep exploring why with her. It might take an outside source to open that door with her like a IC or a good MC. Hope you can do the Harleys. The SF will improve as long as you keep working on it with her. I know its rough SF was a biggie with me. But there was times I went cold too. Mostly when I felt worthless for some reason. Right now it is a lot for you to handle but in time it can get better
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This is disturbing. No need to get into details but this is worrisome. Explain, what are your thoughts? If this is a pattern, then she is still emotionally dettached from you and likely views SF as a chore. Hard to feel close and loving when someway has the attitude..."are you done yet?"  Whatever you wife's reason, this is troubling. She very well may have some bizarre reason that makes sense to her but it still shows a lack of intimacy. It's one thing if we are talking about a quickie and it's sort of a funny, hurry up haha moment, but that is not the impression I get.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Well, where still in the first month of 2010, and already had SF 1/2 as many times as 2009. SF happened over the weekend, she initiated it and it was GOOOOOOOOOODDDDDD!!! Very passionate, lasted very long, did lots of "Stuff" and FWW was very pleased. Apparently me spending all day remodeling the bathroom (New sink, vanity, and new bold paint) and then us having a few drinks that night really turned FWW on. Perhaps "Bear premium ultra" semi gloss paint fumes are an aphrodisiac.
Last edited by Gack1; 01/20/10 11:11 AM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Glad things are going well for you.
A remodeled bathroom would be good, but a remodeled kitchen.... now that would really do it for me. New paint, refinished cabinets, a double oven... Hmmm... Okay, I've got to stop now, I'm getting all hot and bothered. Someone please send a note to my H about the kitchen.
Kidding aside, I really am glad things are going better for you Gack.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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You had me at the double oven, Writer.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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This worked so well that I am painting the baby's room later this week. Then I am going to do the other bathroom
Last edited by Gack1; 01/20/10 11:46 AM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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>Perhaps "Bear premium ultra" semi gloss paint fumes are an aphrodisiac.
It's especially an aphrodisiac when someone ELSE is doing the painting!
Ask the Wookie.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Glad you two got over the errr ummm "hump", Gack.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Bad form, Faithy.
But I love it anyway. Very punny.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Don�t worry, the kitchen is on my list, but it is probably the lowest prioraty in the house as it was remodeled by the previouse owner (I call her mom) a few years ago and is in very good shape. Higher on the list is the other bathroom, baby�s room, spare bedroom, closing in the carport to be a garage and building a media room in the basement. And that�s just the indoor and non automotive projects I have lined up. On the SF front If we had SF like we had over the weekend, twice a month I would be�� Content is not really the word� But it would be acceptable. I would like it to be MUCH more often, like it was when we first got together/married. But I think we where way more sexual than most people. We where just really, really, really into each other in every way back then, especialy in SF. I would love to have that back, but I just don�t think she could ever go back to being that sexual. I really think I was spoiled in the SF department back then, and I remember how awsome those days where and it taint�s my veiw of our relation ship now and will going forward. Back then SF once a day was average, and multipil times in a day happened fairley regularly. I miss that, and fear not ever having it at that level again. For example We would go on vacation to have SF without having to be interupted by daily life. Rent a really nice high rise condo on the beach with a great view. FWW would pack a Bikini, a dress and heels, and wear something comfortable on the trip down. The moment we walked in the condo she would disrobe and put those clothes in a drawer and would not put them back on untill we left to go home. The rest of the time it was birthday suit in the condo, bikini on the balkony/beach/pool, and the dress to go out at night in and SF 5 to 7 times a day!!! For the first 4yrs of our marriage that�s what our life was like. We absolutly could not keep our hands off each other. And it was mutual! I miss that, and still want her that much. But I can live without that level of SF. If we get to where we are having it once or twice a week I will be content. Anything more will just be a bonus. Glad you two got over the errr ummm "hump", Gack. Thanks, but I think the real......Ummmmm...."Hump" will be the twice in one week...Ummmm........"Hump"
Last edited by Gack1; 01/20/10 02:54 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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BEWARE WW's and FWW's all say size doesn't matter.  Then how come they all want DOUBLE ovens?
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Road, we want double ovens so that we can cook more than one thing at a time at different temperatures.
Besides, a double oven isn't bigger than a regular oven. It's actually two ovens in one.
I don't think most women want their H's to have 2.... oh, never mind. Let's not even go there.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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BEWARE WW's and FWW's all say size doesn't matter. Then how come they all want DOUBLE ovens?
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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BEWARE WW's and FWW's all say size doesn't matter. Then how come they all want DOUBLE ovens? Thats awesome
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Oh, no, I got it.
Like I said, there are some things I just don't need two of.
And size matters, it really does.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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The last 48hrs have been rather trying.
1st my wife got into a small accident in the truck my dad left me when he passed. Everyone is fine, only miner damage, and the other parties insurense will cover it.
2nd My home computer got a virus that wiped out C:\WINDOWS\system32\userinit.exe with some bogus exe that keeps anyone from loging on to it. I can fix it, I just have to pull the hard drive, slave it to another machine, and overwrite the userinit.exe with a good one.
3rd My wife and I had a fight about somthing that was totaly stupid. I avoided LB's, but she sure did not!
4rth I was just told that some bozo in the home office projects I may not have enough work in front of me to work a billable 40hr week, so they are reducing me to 32hrs for a wile. If I have 40hrs of billable work I will still be paid for 40, but if I don't, I will only be paid for 32hrs.
This may not affect me since my direct supervisors and I both belive I will have 40+ hours of work for the forseable future, but it still ticks me off.
Last edited by Gack1; 01/27/10 09:08 AM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Has your W read the Harley materials? Does she know about avoiding LB's? Good job on YOU not LBing though. Sorry about all the stress, it sure sounds like you are handling it well.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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The last 48hrs have been rather trying.
1st my wife got into a small accident in the truck my dad left me when he passed. Everyone is fine, only miner damage, and the other parties insurance will cover it. The truck is in the body shop. 2nd My home computer got a virus that wiped out C:\WINDOWS\system32\userinit.exe with some bogus exe that keeps anyone from loging on to it. I can fix it, I just have to pull the hard drive, slave it to another machine, and overwrite the userinit.exe with a good one. That fix did not work. It turns out it was a RootKit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RootkitThese things are really, really nasty! This site got me back up. http://thinkinginpixels.com/quick-fixes/fix-windows-xp-log-onlog-off-loop/Well over the weekend we finished painting the baby's room and hung blinds in it. It is two tone pink and purple with a tinkerbell boarder dividing the two colors and tinkerbell wall stickers on the wall. We had our nieces (9, 10 and 13) from Friday night till Sunday afternoon and they helped watch the baby and helped with the room, so no SF..... Then Sunday night after the baby went to bed......SF!! I really am starting to think paint fumes get her in the mood. We have already picked out the colors for our bedroom and the hall bathroom. Has your W read the Harley materials? Not much. Does she know about avoiding LB's? She understands the basic concepts, and has read a few of the Dr. Harley's articles, just not the books. Sorry about all the stress, it sure sounds like you are handling it well. I'm trying, life has it's ups and downs. 
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Funny thing about the paint fumes...I get very turned on for my H when he does work around our home. I think DS is very high on my EN list.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Hmmm... I wonder if that would work for me? Maybe it would turn me on if my H did some home improvements. I sure hope I get a chance to find out someday.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Hmmm... I wonder if that would work for me? Maybe it would turn me on if my H did some home improvements. I sure hope I get a chance to find out someday. Have you thought about telling him what a turn on it would be?
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Hmmm... I wonder if that would work for me? Maybe it would turn me on if my H did some home improvements. I sure hope I get a chance to find out someday. Have you thought about telling him what a turn on it would be? I just might give it a try.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Posts: 602
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Road, we want double ovens so that we can cook more than one thing at a time at different temperatures.
Besides, a double oven isn't bigger than a regular oven. It's actually two ovens in one.
I don't think most women want their H's to have 2.... oh, never mind. Let's not even go there. you mean like the "rabbit"
Me BH 49 WXW 50
Married 1998
DS 2002
DD 2005
D Day 1 7/28/08
D Day 2 8/19/08
Divorce Final 3/19/2009
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I took poetic license. I knew what a double oven is. I infered double as in size/capicity. Not as in having two. This just proves women don't have the capacity....
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Road, the only thing it proves is that you didn't get the fact that my response to you was also a joke. Read my response again and maybe you'll get it. If not, oh well.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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w1 It's on. That's it the gloves are off. (oven mitts for those that are slow)
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Okay, Road, don't go getting your apron in a bind.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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