Thanks SD, I dont expect everyone to understand, the letter WS sent was meant to be done in person but he lied to me told me he had confronted OW so i asked him to send his draft NC dialogue to OW under the title of "In case you didnt understand what i said to you in person" then 2 months later WS confesses that he never told WS face to face contents of letter as he is petrified of her turning around and dissing his manhood i was rightfully angry as OW could now see that letter could have possibly come from me when it didnt. Thats the reason why face to face information to her by WS is essential to me. Shortly after D Day WS sent OW text telling her to call her friends off FB and to leave me alone or he will retaliate, she took this text to the polie and told them it was from me when it came from his phone nothing to do with me so she keeps putting everything back on me when sometimes i havent been involved again this means that if WS tells her things in person she will have no doubt he means it and to back the hell off with the sunts in store that she has pulled with her gang of demented teenage friends.
The last thing i wanted was contact between them and i was phisically sick when i knew he was talking to her, i was 2 hours away at my mothers and he was over at her house doing the confrontation it wasnt easy, I needed HIM to eject her out of my head, he put her there by telling her he loved her, making love to her and betraying his family for her was i really so wrong to want to claim some of that back? as i first said i dont expect everyone to agree with me the best i can do is explain why i feel the way i feel.

I am stuck and thats because of the job situation and WS slow moving progress, I have done my end i have backed off calmed down cut out the LBs and worked on meeting his EN's, coaching with the harleys and reading SAA, if you have any suggestions as to anything else i can do please feel free to tell me.

"Good luck but I'm outta here." I am sorry you feel this way but at the end of the day i need people who care enough to stick with me through thick and thin so thanks for the support so far and good luck for your future i am sorry I couldnt fit into your idea of how I should behave.

BH, I personally, have no expectation of your behaviour, and I won't condone everything a BS does just because they are a BS, especially if what they are doing is hindering recovery. A vital part of R is learning that we only control ourselves and that we must try be be the best we can be.

I personally do not think you are helping yourself, your H or your family and therefore I felt the need to post that to you because it is necessary sometimes to hear conflicting views so that we can best examine the motivations behind our behaviour.

My FWH very much values the 2x4's he received here and very much appreciates that not everyone here would validate him or his actions. So do I for that matter and FWIW, I have been called out on my behaviour once or twice and I too have appreciated that someone cared enough to take the time to do that.

What matters here on this forum is that any advice given is MB based advice and I personally do not believe that what you are doing at the moment follows any advice that would be given by the Harley's. I'll stand to be corrected on this as catperson is an experienced vet and her opinion is that your H delivered a NC letter in person so maybe there is some merit in that.

I get very frustrated reading your thread as R for you could be so tantalisingly close if only you followed the MB programme. It is a narrow path that leads to recovery and you are straying from it too often. My H and I are in a great recovery. We're building a really good M, and our D-Day was only 3 months before yours, but we are both following the MB programme without deviation.

Dr H knows how to build good M's. My FWH and I obviously didn't or we wouldn't have got ourselves into the mess we were in. I'm therefore more than happy to follow his advice given in the many articles and books.

Just get with the programme and build your M. It's far from easy but on the other hand it's really simple.

Oh and forget the Christmas party. It's a recipe for disaster and will NOT build your M.

This doesn't make sense. If it was the last thing you wanted, why did you make him do it? I don't understand how she can be "ejected from your head" when you are inititaing contact between the two of them? It doesn't even work in the context of it being a real NC letter delivered in person as he'll see her at work next week.

How is this helping you in your personal recovery and your marital recovery? It can only have triggered you both badly. I'm sorry, but you're right, I just don't get it.


Which EN were you meeting by forcing him to visit OW? How many deposits were made into his �LB with that? I would go so far as to say it was a LB'er for both of you. He can't have enjoyed it and it made you physically sick. It just doesn't seem that MB'ing to me.

I completely understand that contact is an issue for you so do something about the work situation, schedule 20-25 hours a week UA time, stop LB'ers and meet top intimate EN's.

Let Steve work on your H. You can only do you part so do your part to the very best of your ability and whatever happens you can have no regrets about what you did in attempting to recovery your M.

BH

I couldn't bring myself to post this morning because I was so horrified by this latest twist.

I am 100% with Sere here.

The sooner you 2 can get away from OW the sooner you can start to recover.

it's almost as if you enjoy keep torturing yourself.

Sort NC

Quit the job

Stop whinging without taking the proper action.

Still here for you and will keep saying the same things.

This is MBers. Lots have been here before and followed the recipe with success.

Do you want success?

SD I have absoulutely no issue with people disagreeing with my actions giving me 2x4 infact thats why i told you what had happened i didnt for one second expect anyone to say "well done BH your on track" because im not and my actions arent. What i do have a problem with is people making me feel worthless with comments like "Im outta here" its like saying your a [censored] i give up on you. That hurts as i value people on here and care about them so for any of them to turn around and send me that message is like a friend abandoning you.
I keep coming back despite the 2x4 I keep posting whats happening despite the earlyer messes dont i deserve some patience too?? I dont want sympathy or pity i need patience. I have shared my most intimate thoughts and feelings on here.

Not that this justifyes it one bit but i forced the confrontation because I NEED REASSURANCE you guys see that in me too on here so you may understand that i might need more reassurance than the average person. Steve keeps wanting me to concentrate on the fact that WS is still here and i keep saying to him WHY IS HE HERE?? I am petrified that he loved this OW i am pertified that the only reason he stayed was to ensure my personal safety and nothing more. I dont get reassurance from him i dont see the love in his eyes anymore i am devastated that my actions alone since the A could have destroyed the little bit of love he had for me so i take extraordinary measures to get him to prove to me he still cares, I make him do the things i do like the confrontation as reassurance, its not about the stupid party its not about the surface bull its about him prooving he loves me. Sad but true. Im a thinker he just doesent think whats the middle ground??

Jobwise I dont know what else to do, I have helped in the jobhunt i have made the conditions for jobhunting ideal i am sticking to my guns regarding his hours at work and what he can and cant do making him feel suffocated in his job role. What else can i do short of getting him sacked?? and lets get one thing straight here no matter how bad im feeling about him working with OW its never going to be a good enough reason to deprive my kids of food and heating for however long it takes WS to find another job, they come first, im happy to starve and live in rags but i wont let them go through that just because their father is not jobhunting fast enough. He is setting an hour a day to jobhunt and apply for new jobs so its not like he wont move its just not happening for us right now dont know wh. I have chased up the first job that i found via my friend and a position will become available in 5 weeks time but then WS still has to go through the interview and CRB check before getting the job although he does not have a criminal record the CRB check takes a month to come though, if this job is still on the table it is the IDEAL job for our family not money wise but marriage wise. All the other jobs he has looked into involve great sacrifice of either distance, more hours or unsurvivable wages. My nans inheritance is not arriving now for another 6 months so cant do anything that way either as my aunt didnt register her death with the appropriate office within the 7 day allowence she was too upset to tend to paperwork now it has to go through court to vaidate death certificate.

We have coaching with Steve on tuesday I will bring up the issues im stuck with and hope he can help, although the path to recovery is a narrow one it still doesent mean that the bull that is happening can be ignored.

ST im starting to think that i enjoy torturing myself too as it seems to be a common daily thing with either triggers or the latest action, its ridiculous a grown mother of 4 cant get her head together for more than a week at a time. I asked WS why does he put up with 1 good week in 4 and he said because the one good week is worth the 3 bad ones. Nice of him, i softened a bit and cuddled him last night leading to SF. This morning feel stupid about letting my guard down and softening and beating myself for it. Dumb right? how do i get over the feeleing that i am still being played and just enjoy the good times when they happen??


I want sucess and i want it now! that seems to be my mind set, how do you grow patience?? how do you take off the A glassess and look at things again for what they are so you can let yourself see the positive progress, I nit pick, take apart and examine everything to distruction.

You can't reach your goal of success by doing the same things you've always done.

Given the fact that you grew up with the mother-of-all-drama queens who took you away from a loving environment to one of danger and risk, it is understandable why your primary method of solving problems doesn't try to neutralize the drama.

But the solution to your pain is less drama, not more.

That's the biggest reason why you should not go to the Christmas party.

Imagine that night - dancing on the edge of some major major drama. Will she do something that just erupts the whole scene? will your husband do something stupid that makes you explode?

It's that horrifying excitement that's egging you on to go face her down, and it sadly will not ease your pain or assuage the betrayal you feel.

You can't control all the players on the board. You and your husband would be best served to find a romantic place to go away from work, and away from the drama. Find joy in boredom and comfort and safety.

You cannot break the drama pattern easily, as it's been part of your life forever. But any time you feel like you are living out of the story line of some horribly written romance novel - the conflict, the drama, the instability - walk away from the story line and find a quiet place where you get to choose the next step, rather than having it imposed upon you.

You are loved. You are cared about. And people post to you because they very much want to see the end of your pain and the beginning of your happily ever after, as boring as happily ever after can be and still have joy.

Dear BH:

1. You are loved, you are cared about, you deserve to be loved, you deserve to be cared about.
2.KaylaAndy is right in her perception. I do believe her post is a valid one and done in the spirit of recovery in a most positive way.
3. I do agree with cat: NC in person: horrible for both of you but now over.

Now move forward from that moment on. Let OW become a more and more distant piece of this horrible puzzle. Kick her forever out of your marriage and as hard as it is going to be your mind.
My WS said to me today: I have got her out of my mind, it's you that can't let her go. Even though those words may seem self-serving for him, they are absolutly the truth. I have made up my mind to kick her out of my mind. It will take all of my strength and it will be a tenacious act, but one i am willing to accomplish.

Don't feel stupid for feeling vulnerable, love is never wrong, kindness never a wrong choice. You both need to take every opportunity to be loving and kind to one another. Take the moment for what it was. A sweet gentle reminder of what the two of you can be together. A sweet and gentle look into the future of a recovered marriage. It is never wrong to completly let your guard down with someone who shares your life, your past,present and future, your bed. What he does with it is his responsibility. If you stay guarded, if he stays guarded recovery will take so much longer.

I will tell you that i come from a background of drama, and yes it is addicting. I have come to learn through working out the demons of my past that drama is almost always the wrong turn. I got into the habit of surrounding myself with people who would automatically react to the situation almost opposite of me. I through the years gained a healthy understanding of balance.

yes, this knew turn in the road WS, EA has almost thrust me back into very bad habits, emotions that feel right but reactions that would be so wrong. Take heart BH, all is not lost. Take satisfaction in the knowledge that WH put himself in a most unsettling situation to insure your protection. Now move forward and leave her behind and work together to rebuild and recover what will be more beautiful and more gratifying than you could have ever dreamed of.

You both have 4 beautiful children that need both parents, parents who need and love each other. It is within your reach, don't be afraid, let go and reach out with both hands, grab him with all your might.

My suggestion to you as your friend would be to forget this horrid X-mas party and plan a sweet, lovely party for two. end a horrid year and start a wonderful new year with just the two of you and your four little angels.

Thinking of you and holding you in my heart and prayers.

BH28

Patience.

You have yourself commented that you would like to begin to turn to God again but have found it hard.

Psalm 37:7-9
Be still in the presence of the Lord, and wait patiently for him to act. Don�t worry about evil people who prosper or fret about their wicked schemes. Stop being angry! Turn from your rage! Do not lose your temper�it only leads to harm. For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the Lord will possess the land. (NLT)


Well, all fingers are crossed for you both. Can you get hold of the CRB form ready and fill it in so that it can be sent the second the job comes through?


BH28- IF you choose not to protect yourself from H working with OW then you will keep hurting.

Accpet that it is your decision for now that he keeps working with her and then you will find it easier to live with. Because it is your decision. At this point you could choose a plan B, you sound like you need to protect yourself.

ST

Hey BB and ST,

Thanks for the replyes, first he drama thing i really cant see it but as you guys keep referring to it i will bring it up in group therapy on wednesday, my therapist is finally back from personal leave so now i have space to go work on me and my childhood away from A although she is angry with me because i have replaced her with Steve but my point is that i went to her to resolve deep childhood set character flaws not A, the A took place 2 years into my therapy so i just want to go back to the original plan and let the harleys deal with the A. I dont see myself as someone who seeks drama infact im the one who usually calms it down with my friends hence the daily persistant phonecalls i get to try and resolve their lives. I dont mind helping and my life is so full i dont see much quiet time for drama seeking but there must be truth in what KA is saying and i am willing to seek an insight into this.

ST oh dear the God issue was hard enough for me even before A i feel almost ashamed to walk into church again,for so long i hated and blamed God for the horrors i saw in hospital i almost dont know how to get back from that. One of my close friends father is a pastor and he has know me all my life so i feel safe talking to him and will do so in order to seek advice on the way back to God its just got so complicated in my head i wouldnt know where to start writing about it.

Jobwise my ideal scenario is this

WS contiues to jobhunt and in the mean time helps me with the issues that him working with OW brings. There are things he can do to make my life easyer when he is at work with COW, from simple reassurance to putting his family first at work. Now i have tackled the OW s views on the fact that my WS has kept his mouth shut and not retaliated because he cares about her i feel really releved and safe that she will not try anything else, she knows now without a doubt where he stands and I needed that.
I am almost gutted that Steve has not addressed the work issue in any of our couaching sessions. everyone here can (including me) see how crutial it is why does the expert not address it??

Plan B wise is looking so appealing to me it would be perfect for me to do right now but plan B with 4 young dependant children who arent old enough to understand their fathers actions is a royal nightmare and i cant bare to even start on that track if its going to cause them one ounce of suffering. I rather stick at this and succeed or fail once not put the kids in limbo where one day daddy lives at home the next he is being plan B and the next he is at home again it just doesent feel right to do that to them. Is there any way plan B can happen without WS leaving home. I am considering the option of nesting where we take it in turns to live at home with the kids, he does it for one week and i do it for one week but even then with jobs kids clubs committments its not going to work with plan B and no contact with eachother. Im just throwing this idea out here see what you guys think.

from what i understand the CRB check ws need to fill is a specific one that the new employer has to do as he will be in contact with prisoners but ill call my friend and ask her if he can pay for one to be done to save time.

BB i have tryed so so so hard to eject OW from my thoughts but its so hard when at one point WS stood there and done a body parts comparison, not used protection, described things in detail, its like he etched her on my body mind and soul and no matter how hard i try i cant scrub her off. Right now i feel releif and a moment of peace and quiet that the issue of the loving her has been put to bed but knowing myself i doubt this will last there will be a point when it will come back up and then what?? carry on asking for confrontations, i rather be a single mum than do that again. I look at myself in the mirror and see her, i make love to my H and she is in bed with us its really horrible, i try my hardest to block her out. Its really that drastic for me. Some days i want to get rid of her so badly i consider getting rid of WS too as he is the main link i have to her. It sounds crazy i know it does but thats how bad it is.

Here is the plan.
have posted this on WS thread and now will see response. Im setting a timeline of January 30th to see if this M is recoverable or not. January 30th im going into dark plan B. This is my last attempt at reaching recovery. What do you guys think?

Dear WS

I am writing to you on the public board because I feel this is the last chance I have to reach out to you remind you of where I am and tell you how I feel, I am hoping that by doing this on your thread and in writing you will not be able to ignore, forget about or simply dicard my feelings. I am putting my heart on the line here as it�s the only thing left for me to do and I hope that you can see that I am genuine and consider this a last resort in a final attempt to have a fair and decent marriage.

So Dear WS I want you to know that I love you and that I am sorry. I am sorry for all the ways I have reacted to this situation, I am sorry I am not calmer, I am sorry im not stronger to get through this on my own without your help. I want you I want our family and most of all I want our marriage, but I don�t want to achieve this on my own I haven�t got anything else to give you a part from my love and support. I am sorry I can t get through this without reassurances or constant demands I just don�t know how else to feel your love a part from push you as hard as I can and watch you take it. It feels like this is the only way you can show me that you love me these days by just simply staying and putting up with me, during the past year you have not shown me any care or love that I understand I know you say you love me sometimes but its got to the stage where its only words and words don�t have much value when your actions are contradicting what you say.

I am heartbroken I am lost and I am in pain but despite all of this I still sit here and worry about you and worry about how your mistake has effected you, I cant take your mistake away all I can do is support you though the recovery, but I cant keep on giving away my soul and not get anything in return, I don�t want much from you a part from the love you promised to have for me when we got married and to back up this love in action.

I am still thinking about what you said yesterday that you have always been this cad capable of hurting me and you reminded me of the incident when you stayed on the bus past your stop just because a woman was making eye contact with you and you wanted to see if it would lead anywhere. Then came home and told me about it, oh how stupid do I feel now for not getting angry at you for being so understanding that you have low self esteem and no matter what I say or do my love for you does not help that one bit and you need a strangers approval but you also had boundries. You reminded me of this incident you reminded me that I am holding on to a man in my imagination that you have never been the sweet man that I married. Im telling you I refuse to believe that, I refuse to think that the man I fell in love with has always been this cold and uncaring I remember the times when you used to hurt just at the thought of being away from me for an evening and the way you used to just look at me from across the room with so much love in your eyes that�s what I remember about you, I remember the guy who used to swear blind that he will never be with another woman when I used to panic about you having a mid life chrisis and the realisation that you have only had one partner all your life would drive you to cheat, the anger and disgust in your face used to be so reassuring now its gone now there is no reassurance there and there is no trust. And im so sad that you cant see that, im so sad that you don�t see there is any further need to reassure me a part from the fact that you are still here.

I want you to be here out of love, the last thing I want is for you to be unhappy and stay for any other reasons like fear or because you don�t see any other choice, I wish you can see that I want what s best for you even if that�s not me. I worry about you I worry about your happiness and you know I put your happiness above mine but its now got to a stage where I cant see that I am making you happy and I don�t know how to make you happy without further sacrificing myself.

You know I don�t think much of myself, you know I don�t feel like I deserve you and you know that I don�t feel that I deserve love or care but right now I also realise that as a human being I do deserve not to be in torturous pain, I don�t deserve to feel hated rejected or like a burden. I rather have nothing than have that.

I am exhausted I am shattered and I am just plain out of energy to fight with you anymore hun, I cant keep fighting for a marriage on my own. I love you enough to have faith that you will wake up and want me and our marriage but I don�t have enough strength to fight for it. I have worked so hard day and night to help you to counsel you and just be there for you but now I need you, I need you to help me.
Please help me, reassure me, care for me I am begging you. I need you and I can t do this on my own.

I have spent all night talking to you about what I need its not much, it�s a little reassurance from time to time that I can let my guard down that I can relax with you again and be happy and carefree that you have the situation under control that you understand, that you care enough about yourself not to put up with the self distructive weaknesses that led to the affair.

I cant carry the shame on my own anymore, I need communication to clarify things because my world is no longer as straight forward as it was a simple cuddle is no longer so simple, it can mean a million things from I love you to im sad to I want SF. I cant tell anymore what s real from what s not I need you to share your thoughts in order to help me understand. I can t tell anymore whats you and whats the alien that has taken over you. I need your help with that I need you to drown my insecurities with simple reassurances like cuddling me and simply stating �im soppy� nothing more.

I want my children to grow up knowing that you are a stand up guy, that yes you can make mistakes like everyone else but you also can redeem yourself and work at clearing the aftermath of your mess. I want them to admire you and respect you, I want to admire and respect you again, I don�t like looking at you and seeing the stranger you are becoming to me. It hurts it really does especially when I know what a loving respectful hard working guy you can be.

Do you remember how you felt during that heavenly period of 6 months a year before the A when you where everything I needed and more, how happy I was, how happy you where? How proud you felt that you were there for your family and you were there for your wife? Do you remember the pure glow of joy I had just because you remembered to get me a birthday present or an anniversary card? We can be back there again but you need to help us get there.

Don�t get bogged down with thinking that we will never admire you again because that s not the case we will admire you so much when you decide to love us, we will love you back twice as much when you decide that you want us and you know that, I have shown you that. Every time you have shown me an act of kindness or care I cant help but want to repay you 10 times over and that�s just because I am grateful to have you in my life I am grateful that you let me love you, I never want to take you for granted.

I don�t know what else to say a part form I do love you and I do want you I just don�t know how to carry on loving you when its costing me so much. Its like investing into something and not getting any returns. I need you to make the simple decision to commit to our marriage and family and start giving something back or accept that you are not and wont and just go and find the happiness that we don�t seem to be able to give you. Don�t tell me you don�t know how because you have the resources and help to find out and as you know you have my full love and support. Don�t tell me your not capable because you are, you have shown me many times that you are capable of feeling caring and understanding. Don�t sell yourself short you can do this if you put your mind to it and im here to remind you of what you can be always and forever.

Do you really want to be here? Have you really decided that the family we have is enough for you? Because I don�t feel that. I still feel like you are here out of duty and I simply refuse to be a burden on you, you deserve to have a better life, its just now up to you to decide if you can achieve this with us or not. I wish that one day our admiration and love will be enough for you that you wont be in a position to seek it in other people and place. Do you think we can ever be enough for you? If you do decide that we are what you want then please act on that decision and commit to us. This problem will not disappear on its own. I wish I could save you the hard work but I cant its just the way it is.

The decision is now with you. Its out of my hands I cant do anymore without your commitment can you meet me half way? Im not asking you to do all the hard work but im asking you to start meeting me half way because I cant walk this journey on my own.

Love you now and always

W xx

BH,

Did Steve recommend a letter of this type? Did Steve tell you to set January 30 as a deadline? WHAT HAS STEVE TOLD YOU TO DO? ARE YOU DOING IT?

This is going to get me slammed and I really don't care...when I read your posts, I feel sorry for your WH because all I see your constantly riding him, every moment of the day, demanding that he spend his every waking moment working on the tasks you have set out for him expecting him to magically make it all disappear. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, so deal with it. You want everything fixed in one fell swoop to the point where you are imposing you own plan instead of following the plan Steve has mapped out for you and WH. You are spending good, hard-earned money on Steve, why can't you follow his instructions? You've been following your plan for a year - how's that working for ya'? Maybe its time to follow Steve's plan. Recovery is NOT a sprint, its a marathon.

BTW, you asked us to remind you, so I am going to remind you, go back and read your post from a week or so ago when everything was good. READ IT, READ IT, and READ IT AGAIN UNTIL YOU HAVE IT DRILLED IN YOUR MIND.

im removing post because its not fair to diss steve without talking to him first, I dont want people not to get help because of the way i feel about coaching at the moment. its out of line to talk about someone without giving them a chance to respond and i owe steve that so cutting post out

Sorry brit but im so frustrated didnt mean to take it out on you.

How much of your not liking Steve's plan is because it is not what you want to hear? How much of it is you want immediate fixes when there are no immediate fixes because it takes time and is a slow, steady process? A part of me wonders whether you ever have or ever will be satisfied with anything your WH says or does?

I told you earlier in your thread - I see SO much of you in me. I was very controlling, wanting everything EXACTLY my way. I knew everything and the experts knew nothing. (A very wise friend who has been married close to 50 years asked me once, "Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?") Don't end up like me, divorced and raising a young child on my own.

BTW, the folks here who have successfully recovered the marriages have followed the Harley plan to a "t".....

Brit please understand Steves plan makes sense its good and its appropriate but and there is a big but it does not address the unpredictable issues there are in the mean time.

How can I carry on having faith hope and trust blindly in the plan when ALL i hear from WS is the negatives. I hear that he doesent understand things all the time, I hear about what he cant do all the time. He goes on and on about how weird he is and how he is unlike others, how he thinks he is unique in the sense that he does not feel anything its frustrating the hell out of me hearing the bad bad bad bad all the time during the plan my solution to this is for WS to do verbal reassurance once in a while. Im barely holding my own hope up here never mind rescuing his hope too. If he had to think about reassurance then maybe he will hear what he is saying to me and it will give him something positive to say for a change rather than the useual i cant, this wont work, that wont work etc. The negativity is driving me insane. I want to be wrong and married thanks i will be elated to be wrong and married i wish i was lying and making this stuff up cause my life would be alot easyer but unfortunately im not. I will talk to steve about the way im feeling because then maybe he can put me back in my place and reassure me but cant wait 10 days at a time to get one smidget of reassurance its insane!

Agree brit but im hoping they werent married to a negativity magnet like my WS. If he responds to my letter and actively chooses to commit then maybe the negativity vail might shift and he can start concentrating on the positives so when im low i can go to him and fill my reserves back up rather than having no where to turn and end up self soothing with nothing. U guys really got to come over and spend a day with him and if you dont get the urge to trottle some positivity out of him ill be shocked.

Go back and read your post from a week or so ago - read that whenever you are at your low points like now.