Well, H is saying that I do not want to talk to him and if he wants to he needs to use a IM. He is spinning it so I look bad. But fortunately when I exposed everybody understood that it is normal for me not to want to have any contact. He is also spinning that I kicked him out of the house and that he would have moved out anyway but that I am a very angry person and that is what he had to deal with all the M. I made him so unhappy he really could no longer bear it.
I know I should not be listening to this stuff while in plan be, but my SIL had to let me know because she thinks this is what he will tell son when he comes for xmas
blessing

My WH acted the same way Atena.....and that is exactly what he is acting like, a teenager....I mean when you are an adult you are not supposed to act like this anymore....I would think that you could control yourself....They ditch their responsibilities and family to be with OP. I am sorry but a normal adult who is dating does not ditch their responsibilities, they might dream about it, but being an adult means dealing with your responsibilities....teenagers are the ones who escape them, teenagers are supposed to be selfish, that is the way their brain works.

I remember when I was a teenager, I would not leave the house until I looked perfect, not one hair out of place...and that hair took me a good hour to do....now with more responsibilities and less sefishness, I have my routing down to half an hour tops....and it can be five minutes, because I now can leave the house if my hair is not perfect and not have to rewash it and start over.

This is when you are supposed to be selfish, not when you are married with children and responsibilities....I mean it takes some self control I guess Waywards dont have any.

My H used to say that life is too short for him to be worried about everybody else. He just needs no self help books, not enlightenement. He said I want to have fun and be with someone fun.
A teenager. But still, I miss him and wish he would change.
blessings

I know how you feel...I miss my WH too...its really sad and hard.
Especially this time of year...but we will be okay.

I agree with Fred about WS behavior being like a chemical addiction

If the brain and its inner workings, thoughts, judgements, etc. are controlled by chemical balances, If the brain is really this amazing battery that influences every thought, desire, action we take.

Then the best gift we can have in our lives are healthy boundaries.

Mulan said something about how it explains why,(addictive behavior) not that its an excuse. I agree with that.

This is a good discussion. I have been enjoying reading it.

Interesting because I think many would prefer to think of their WS's as addicts (implying that they have an illness) rather than selfish (implying that they have a poor character). In any event, it doesn't really matter. It still is what it is. Just like cancer is cancer - you can say someone died of natural causes, but it's still cancer and it's a horrible illness. The main difference is that if you diagnose the cancer early enough, it can be treated. Similarly, if you diagnose the addiction, it can be treated (assuming in either case the patient wishes treatment).

To me it seems more like a disease or something to think of it as an addiction. I would rather think he had a selfish time in his life than to think that he is "addicted".

But as you said no matter how you look at it adultery sucks all the way around...............

I can understand why you don't want to call it an addiction then. A disease is something we didn't CHOOSE and have no control over. We don't choose cancer and have no control over whether it goes away or not. That is very different from a BEHAVIOR. We choose our behaviors. Adultery is a behavior over which we have full and complete control. A behavior we CHOSE. Just like I CHOSE to drink and smoke. They were CHOICES although I was addicted.

So when I define adultery as an addiction, I am not calling it a "disease." It AIN'T.

I just had a conversation with my grandma about this. We were contrasting how people "were" in the good old days compared with how they "are" now.

The consensus was that all this psycho-babble has done nothing but give us excuses to justify bad behavior. People like to say "things are different now." But what is "things?" Clearly CIRCUMSTANCES are different now. Or at least we think they are.

But every day, each one of us, wakes up and is faced with choices. Sometimes every day choices, sometimes HUGE ones. And every day we make a decision to do right, or do wrong, faced with those choices. How is that different between now and then?

I'll tell you, NOW there is an entire world wide web of things you can download that feeds you all kinds of stuff that tells you how what you choose to do wrong really wasn't your fault.

Do we today stand up for what we believe? No. We stand up for our right to no longer have to apologize and be held accountable. Sheesh.

You are so "judgmental!"

I guess so Mel.

I like people who take responsibility for their mistakes.

I don't know what set me off in this thread. Maybe the talk about it being "an addiction" and "understandable."

Maybe the steps to get from a loving marriage to an affair make sense, in that one can follow them. But to make the stretch that that makes it OK, for that, or any other reason, it just sits in my craw all wrong.

Look at our presidents. They do something wrong in their past and they are off the electable list. Personally, I'd rather have a guy who has made a few mistakes if he has OWNED them afterward. THAT's a real guy.

I don't understand your smiley though. Is that a drama queen? If so, that's me. :-D

Isaiah 1;4-6
4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


Yeah I think we sometimes ask the wrong person for advice sometimes huh? After all with all the excuses we make we still need to be accountable in the long run to what we have the tools to change. First of all ourselves

A's are horrible but
[quote]maybe the steps to get from a loving marriage to an affair make sense, in that one can follow them. But to make the stretch that that makes it OK, for that, or any other reason, it just sits in my craw all wrong.[\quote]
You do not go from a loving M to and A. There must be some s*t in between.
No one who is truly happy in a M cheats.
Now, these cheaters are unable to verbalize the problems the M might have or to deal with them in a mature way, so they find OP and allow that OP to meet their needs.
Blessings

I am just teasing, NC, I agree with every word you wrote. Our culture has fostered a generation of pansies who can't take accountibility for their wrongdoing. Everything is the fault of our "FOO" or some newly concocted syndrome manufactured to cover our crimes.

the smiley is a drama queen!

p.s. I consider it a compliment to be called JUDGMENTAL and I was complimenting you when I said it. It is an insult, IMO, to be "non-judgemental." People who can't judge right from wrong people our prisons and that is right where they belong.

No offense taken Mel.

Fact is, I LIKE the fact that I WILL call bull$h!t when I see it.

Like my Texas momma says "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch."

I even bought her a license plate for the front of her car with that saying on it. When I asked her if she wanted me to put it on, she said "No, I'll keep it handy just in case I need to smack you with something."

I love your momma! Like I told my 6'4" grown son, "I can still reach your [censored], son!"

Oh I am SO telling mom that one!

She'll be saying that to the grandkids more than "I love you!"

Wait, isn't that how you SAY "I love you" in Texas?

We Texas mommas love our boys!

I allways liked "If ya wanna pee with this big dogs ya gotta lift yur leg hi"