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Yeah,

This is swanman's thread, but when it comes to SF I sometimes totally defend the high drive person, get carried away. Sorry guys, will crawl back into my hole.

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Originally Posted By: themud
Mel,

But what if she said she was in love and happy and content?


Does it seem like she is passionately in love with you? Can't wait to be with you every day?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: themud
Uh, My W lied on the questionaire, then lied about lying on.


Yeah, she's lying about being in love with you too. She might "love" you in a family way because you are her H and you take out the trash, but she is not head over heels IN LOVE with you.

Marriage Builders weekend, Marriage Builders weekend, Marriage Builders weekend........... If she lies on her questionaires then you have a marriage coach and Dr Harley to back you up and get her on board.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Dr. Willard was there to back me up. WW, sovereignty, and IB until the cows come home. I guess I should stop DJ!!!

Thanks ML, you are great, but I have to say it must come from her... as horrible as it is. I would love to go to MB, and to DJ a little more, she would see it as fun not reluctant and she would love the activity, but that is all she would see it as.

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Originally Posted By: themud
Dr. Willard was there to back me up. WW, sovereignty, and IB until the cows come home. I guess I should stop DJ!!!


Dr Willard was WHERE?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Where are the responses to my most from Jan. 4 at 4:24 p.m.? Makes it pretty clear that meeting an emotional need in the absence of desire is kind of silly don't you think?

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Here, I'll re-submit so you don't have to go look for it.

Ladies, I sincerely appreciate your attempt to make me feel better about my situation, and maybe over time it can sink in and impact my views. Time has a way of seasoning new ideas. But right now I'm not buying it. Using Harley's five ENs for women, try this on for size and see if it fits.

"Honey, I am now going to show you affection. I know you love it when I rub your feet until you fall asleep. I can do this if you give me enough of what I want to be motivated to do it. But if you don't I'll have an aversion reaction to your feet. Even if you properly prepare me I will not enjoy it, but I will do it anyway."

"Sweetheart, I know conversation is important to you. So go ahead, you have 30 minutes. I'd rather be watching ESPN, but I'll listen and occasionally grunt to show I'm listening."

"Babycakes I know honesty and openness is important. Frankly I'd rather hide everything I possibly can from you, but this is just one of those things a guy has to do to stay in your good graces, so here are a couple things I thought of that I can be honest about without making me too angry."

"Hi there my little lover, I am off to work now to provide that regular paycheck in order to give you financial security. Sure could work less If I hadn't taken you on as an added financial burden. Live and learn. But here you go sweet pea, enjoy your allowance."

"I know how much you love it when I coach little Bobby's baseball team and generally enjoy the kids. And I do that because I know I'll never again see you naked if I don't do it. I'd rather be drinking beer with the guys, but that won't help anything here at home. So off I go to be super dad."

You see, this idea that we can adequately meet emotional needs by engaging in things we really don't want to do is absurd. Nobody would ever accept the nonsensical things I say in this post about meeting a woman's needs. But that line of thinking is supposed to work when it comes to sex. Insanity.

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Originally Posted By: swanman2010
Ladies, I sincerely appreciate your attempt to make me feel better about my situation, My posts were not attempts to make you feel betterand maybe over time it can sink in and impact my views. (You seem to want our consideration and acknowledgment of your views...consideration is a choice...so is acknowledgment. Seems here you rely on what is your choice being a condition, an external event which may or may not happen. Time has a way of seasoning new ideas. But right now I'm not buying it. Are you saying you're choosing not to consider a lot of your acts of love as they truly are...acts from your own choice to love your wife, not to get her to do anything...making the choices, like below, because you consider her happiness, in the rule of Protection, towards your own highest goal of having a wonderful marriage?Using Harley's five ENs for women, try this on for size and see if it fits.

"Honey, I am now going to show you affection. I know you love it when I rub your feet until you fall asleep. I can do this if you give me enough of what I want to be motivated to do it. But if you don't I'll have an aversion reaction to your feet. Even if you properly prepare me I will not enjoy it, but I will do it anyway." When your actions are based on your partner's possible response, then you will experience your spouse as controlling, your master and rebel...when you choose to do three foot rubs a week (because more would create resentment in yourself and less deprives you of the fun of that connection), you begin to thrive...not giving to get...based solely on your own motivation to thrill yourself with acts of love and care because that's what you are made of and need to express. Your not buying it doesn't hold true for me...seems to me you're not only not choosing to believe, you want to mock, tear down concepts which posters responding to you actually have lived and experienced...and challenging them is okay in my book...just know you have a hidden agenda to do so...you need evidence...and the evidence is posting to you...and you are unwilling to change your stuff to thrive, unless your wife does also. Most of us, I believe, came here exactly in that place, too. And others helped us see our choices were giving us the very experience we didn't want.

You see, this idea that we can adequately meet emotional needs by engaging in things we really don't want to do is absurd.This is where your premise becomes a lie. I hear you saying that acting from love is NOT what you want to do in your marriage. And to me, that's the true absurdity. Nobody would ever accept the nonsensical things I say in this post about meeting a woman's needs. But that line of thinking is supposed to work when it comes to sex. Insanity.
I would, if they weren't crafted with such a deep slant, love to hear my DH share these same statements, in his radical honesty, if he was in that mindset. It would be great to know. Not a battle...a connection. And I remember when he chose this same perspective years ago. He wasn't absurd. He also wasn't honest enough to tell me. Nor was I honest enough to hear. Much of your "insane" samples come from child-like reasoning...which is exactly the mindset we get into in Conflict and Withdrawal. MB is about creating the marital environment so that meeting ENs IS what we most want to do...and love doing. Acting from and experiencing love. I'd say calling for counseling would be your very best investment in your own happiness.

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How many times have you dragged your feet about doing something, then when you got into action, turned out to enjoy it?

That's why you have to decide to take a positive attitude towards DOING what you are supposed to do. Once you accept your duties, and marriage has duties, then you will just get to doing, instead of sitting around resenting it, or calculating whether you are receiving enough in return.

As I said above, when your spouse is not meeting their duties to try to make you happy, it is only natural to be unhappy, and want to stop trying. That's what most people do, just what they feel like doing. That's why half of all marriages fail.

If you are meeting your duties to your marriage (think of it that way, instead of to a person, your spouse), you will be on a lot firmer ground, and have no problem stating with openness and honesty that you are unhappy with their lack of performance, and you would like to know why.

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Okay, getting personal here. H and I have never had the same level of SF need. And we have talked about it numerous times. Bottom line, he is not wired to want it is much or as often as me. So I have some choices. I can just sit around until I spiontaeously combust, or I can wait until he is raring to go, which won't happen as often. OR I can accept his gift of love to me on those night when I am raring to go and he is sort of ho-hum. If I don't want to see his gift as a gift instead of an insult, then my only option is to just go without. It all boils down to how I CHOOSE to view it. I will never make him be like me - he isn't me. So I can be grateful for his gift, or I can whine because he didn't "want it" as much as I wanted him to.

And you know, DS is a big need of my H's. I can't count the number of times I have thought to myself that I do NOT want to cook, or I do not want to do laundry, or whatever. If I waited until laundry gave me warm fuzzies, I'd be naked right now. So I guess H can either go naked too, or ha can appreciate that even though laundry isn't my favorit thing, I am doing it. And no, I don't think I should moan and gripe the whole time I am doing it. That wouldn't be good either.

What I hear you saying is that you want her to want it in exactly the same way you do. That will not happen. I don't care how many seminars you go to. If her libido is low, unless you find some pill she can take, her libodi may not ever be high. But You can still have fulfilling SF, if you choose to view it positively.

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Lur read my post on HOLD"S thread. And buy a couple great sex toys you like. Personally I love the silver bullet and the pocket rocket. Pull him into the bedroom and have him "please you" with hands or the toys.

Ask him for this every night for a week. You will feel a lot better knowing your needs are going to be filled. Also, he may want to join in more. That is what happened to us, the more I asked for "sexual pleasure" from him, the more he liked it and the more he joined in! At least then, if my H was tired or whatever, he could give me the pleasure I need. then he could join in or not, No problem!

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HERE IT IS FOR ALL OF YOU STRUGGLING WITH SEX ISSUES:


Let me tell you there were many nights I would approach my H for sex and he would "not want it" and I would STOMP out of the bedroom to sleep in the guest room and cry.

It was about a year at that stage. The stage when I did not know what to do "after that" to find the solution. There is a solution beyond that point. I am here to tell you about it. But only if she loves you enough to help find it.

What turned the corner for us is when I made a Dr appt with our Dr to see what was up with my husband/s libido. I never felt such hatred toward me for doing that. He told me to never never never ever do that again. The Dr was going to prescribe Viagra, other than that my H was fine. He does have high cholesterol though now.

Then the other turning point was me telling H I was stymied to find a solution and could not live like this anymore. I told him to take a couple days, and think about the problem of lack of sex....with me and come up with a good solution to save our marriage and make us both happy.

The next morning he came to me and told me the solution.

This is sort of how he worded it, " I think this will work. Whenever you want sex, ask me, and I will provide it. Every day if you want it. " I asked, "What about if you do not want sex when I ask?"

He says, "If I dont want sex when you ask, I will provide it for you">

I asked, "You mean if I asked you for sex every day, you could come thru for me?"

He said, "YES">

(You have to know that I accept great hand action and sex toy pleasure as sex so that we have flexibility, as long as I get the big O I am fine)

Then, I tested him out for two weeks asking almost every day. (in a nice cute way of course)

He did what he promised. Every time. Still does.

I learned to ask and he learned to give.

We worked it out. You can too. Ask your wife what she would suggest to save your marriage and so the marriage does not become sexless.



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You mean, you would just start in, like masturbating with a toy or hand? OMG! I think my W would be ok with me masturbating without her, but I don't know if I would like it. I might as well do it alone and come to bed, and have 100s of times, that way I can just go to sleep. I've never used toys for me, but have bought them for her and of course she's never used them alone and we rarely use them. I bought them for her pleasure not for a turn on for me (although it does). Would you just start or ask, then say, "well I'm getting me some by myself then."? How would I do this without seeming like a jerk. Also, my fear tells me she would start to say, "do it yourself" and that would be another way to not bother with being with me.

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In one of the other threads about relationship books, I mentioned a book I found at a beach house that we rented in 2008. The author and her husband had rented it not long before, and she had left several copies of her book, "The 10-Minute Sexual Solution" there. I was skeptical, but curious, of such a short book, but it was buy a clinical psychologist who specializes in sexual problems, more than just marriage. It was actually pretty good, a lot like MB: cut through and skip past all the causation, and get to solving the problems by taking a set of steps in a new direction.


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I have done it many ways. Sorry I will have to be blunt and descriptive in order to "help people" so please do not be offended. I will outline a few of the 1000 variations.

When I ask my H to "have sex" or "come to bed", then he comes in there to the bedroom and there are many ways it can happen.

1. You (Spouse #1) can place her (spouse #2) hands where you want them and she can go from there. Encourage her with words and touch. Give her the emotional attention she wants while she does this or play music or have candles.

2. One partner (#1) can kiss and touch the other spouse's body while that other spouse (#2) plays with themselves. This works for both people. I can kiss and touch H while he does the deed. Or he can kiss and touch and talk to me while I do it on myself.

3. One spouse (#1)can grab whatever toy they want and use it on the other person (#2).

4. One spouse (Spouse #`1) can choose the toy they want (from the small collection) and hand that toy to the other spouse (spouse #2) to use on them (spouse #1).

5. Spouse #1 can tell the Spouse #2 what they feel like in bed but have a second option ready in case #2 does not want to do that particular thing.

6. Spouse #1 can give #2 a choice of how to pleasure #1. Cheerfully give a choice and then they choose what they want to do.

7. If both spouse #1 and #2 are sick but one wants sex, then they can postpone.

8. Early in the evening #1 can ask for lovemaking from #2 AT A SET TIME THAT NIGHT. In order to prepare both of them mentally.

9. #1 can pleasure #2 with hands for about 10 minutes and then #2 can take over at the end can play with themselves to O. Each spouse can always kiss and touch the other one and who cares how they reach O. They can do it themselves or let the other spouse do it and the goal is a lot of loving touching, loving talk, kissing and intimacy.

Who cares who's hands does the deed! The partners are ONE with each other anyway. Just do it! A heap of touching, kissing, loving words and then at the end a great O is fantastic sex in my book.


10. So many other ways I could be writing for ages.

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How cute is Bubbles? I can't think of a better example of POJAing a solution.

Sometimes if I'm not up to the full "work out", I'll suggest a quickie to take my husband's edge off. We also schedule sex, just like most families schedule dinner. Meals are scheduled for a reason--so every one is accustomed to eating at the same time. If we all just wandered in whenever, expecting a meal that wasn't scheduled, it would be chaos and aggravation.

"Ya wanna eat?"
"Na, I'm not hungry. Maybe later."

Same thing with sex.

What have you got to lose with the masturbation? I would do it in a "join in if you want, no biggie if you don't" kind of way. No pressure to do more. When you're done, kiss her and cuddle if possible.

What Bubbles and her husband did with the problem was very good--see if you could bargain the way they did--looking for the win-win.

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We are getting better but remain stuck on two issues.

1. The quickie: H gets upset when I propose this
2. Timing. Much past 10:30 PM and I am worthless. I don't need nor expect him to go to sleep the same time I do. If he wants to get up and watch TV afterwards, that's really fine with me. But waking me at midnight for a session is going to result in a "no". And I have just quit feeling guilty about that. He's been warned.

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Yes! Everyone can do this I think!

Attractive indeed is expressing our needs (in 100 ways if we have to) and helping out our entire marriage!

I ran down the things OTHER than intercourse in order to offer 100 creative solutions when intercourse is off the table.

Of course in any one of these ways to "do sex", intercourse could be injected during or after. These ways can also be used as pretty darn good foreplay.

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It's taking the time to do it. If I lay suggestions on the table it might help, but she absolutley HATES being told what to do unless she asks and then it's not a garauntee she'll do it b/c she likes throwing her control around. It is very hard for me to see my wife even getting into it as much as you even describe. To her those would be very involved, unless it was one of those 1-2x/mo where she can actually get the energy up to start reving.

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Based upon the responses, it is obvious I have not made myself entirely clear. So let me try once more.

1. I fully understand that no two people have exactly the same sex drive, as it pertains to the type of SF or the amount.

2. I am perfectly comfortable with the notion that the lower sex drive spouse is going to have sex at times when he/she is not as fully into it as the higher drive spouse. I view that as an act of love and a gift in marriage.

3. However, it is not acceptable if the lower drive spouse NEVER wants it and doesn't enjoy it.

4. As stated before, my W has admitted that she would not miss it if we never had sex again. That is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than the H wants it 5 times a week and the W wants it 2 times a week.

I am talking about a situation in which the drive is zip, zero, nada, and has literally been that way since the wedding day (we were both virgins when married). And by the way, I am in the same situation as Mud. The kinds of things described by Bubbles would be regarded as WAY over the top by my wife. Sex toys, masturbation, fondling each other is in her mind carnal and icky.

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