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For those unfamiliar with my journey over my wife's infidelity, please read this thread...

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2271581&page=1

Well, my wife went to a counseling session on Monday 1/4/2010. I had kept the pressure on her to tell me the truth. After the appointment I asked her how it went. She told me that the counselor said I needed to let things go, accept her apology and either chose to move on in the marriage or not. That I needed to stop throwing things in her face and that I need to sincerely forgive my wife as she has already sincerely apologized to me 3+ years ago. That I need to redirect my obsessive thoughts about what happened over 3 years ago and stop punishing my wife.

I told my wife that this response was unacceptable, completely unacceptable. You see, the original purpose behind her having to go to the counselor herself was so she could recover her memories about the affair and deal with her compartmentalization issues that she claims causes her memory loss at times.

I told her that as long as she continued this entire mess that I would start talking to everyone she knew or knows, about what may have happened. She immediately got deathly affraid, because she knew she was at the end of the rope. She could tell I was no longer ***edit*** her, that I was serious.

I told her that we could live in the same house, but that I would no longer be speaking to her about all of this affair crap unless she wanted to admit the truth. We could live as roommates and that I will go ahead full force with investigating the affair through other channels.

Finally she snapped. Our kids (Girl 5 and Boy 1 1/2) were around the house playing. My wife told me to go to our room and that she would tell me everything that happened. Again came the lies, it was just an EA, nothing ever happened, they would just sit and talk. That the EA was headed to PA, but I caught her before that could happen. The night that I knew she got the hotel room, she said she was going to have sex with him but chickened out.

Finally I asked her, "how many times did you and OM have sex." She said that, "you already know the times we had sex." She was starting to break down. I said, "I only know what I have found out on my own and what you have told me, which is nothing about a PA." She said, "that you already know in your mind what happened and why would you make me say it?" I said, "because you owe me the truth and not knowing the truth is worse than knowing." She finally said, "2 times." Once in a car and once in a hotel room (a different time than the room she paid for). I did not ask for all the details of the sexual encounters. I think I can safely assume it included oral and vaginal sex and that it was unprotected. Anything beyond that, if it did happend, I do not want to know.

I am sure the number of times they had sex is more than 2 and it is probably safe to double that number at least. Which means there is still information out there that I do not have. I am not sure that matters at this point as I finally have the truth about the affair being a PA.

Now it is on to the healing. Emotionally I am devastated. I have not slept in 2 days. My wife wants to stay together, but right now she is an emotional mess. Funny how I am the one who married a woman who ***edit*** another man, yet I am the one who has to do the consoling. I am the one who has to take her to a crisis counselor and deal with all of the fallout.

I know life is not fair, but man this is really hard. I really do not know what to do or where to go from here. I guess I will take a step back for now and evaluate my next move.

I want to thank all of those who have taken the time to read my posts and a special thanks goes out to those who really did take their time to post thoughtful responses. I know I did not always follow your advice, but your comments made me keep the pressure on and to not accept anymore lame excuses from my wife.

Last edited by McLovin; 01/10/10 11:27 AM. Reason: TOS - Do not bypass the profanity filter
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She finally said, "2 times."


I hate to burst your bubble, but based on your other thread, more than likely it was much more than this.

Has she written a "no contact" letter to the other man? It is something written by her, and then approved and mailed by you. There is a sample one around her somewhere.

Your BEST bet for recovery, now that she has come somewhat clean, would be to call the Harleys from this site for counseling. Most marriage counselors nowadays will try and take you back to childhood, blah, blah, blah. The Harleys take you from where you are NOW to where you need to be. It is money WELL spent. You may even consider going to a MB weekend. I understand that they are awesome and a GREAT resource for healing a marriage broken by infidelity.


Last edited by princessmeggy; 01/08/10 01:08 PM.

Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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As I thought back in Nov from your initial posts. Husker, I've never been so sorry to be right.

By insisting on the whole truth, and persevering through the b.s., you are doing the right thing.

She says wants to stay together; if this is also what you want (is it?), then great - you've got some stuff that you can work with already.

Get the book "Surviving An Affair" ASAP. It was huge for my wife & me. Commit to reading it together with your wife. Do the exercises & assessments.

Get her on here if she's willing.

Ask questions.

Keep us posted.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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HF1,

She told me that the counselor said I needed to let things go, accept her apology and either chose to move on in the marriage or not. ... I need to sincerely forgive my wife as she has already sincerely apologized to me 3+ years ago.

So this councelor thinks it is OK for spouses to hide enormous lies and just move on. Did this councelor even suggest that you get tested for STDs, or is that just a risk you have to assume? How did the councelor think you could forgive your wife for something you don't know? If I recall correctly with such a mountain of evidence.

Thanks for posting how you squeezed this out, I've noticed with my wife that details emerge as I ask questions and the sequence of questions setting etc is all important.

NJ

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Well, I guess now you know you have to start questioning everyone again, all over again, and start from scratch.

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NJ - My initial thought about the counselor was that he must be an absolute idiot. The problem as I later found out is that my wife simply lied to him. She told him about the EA from 3+ years ago, but never disclosed the PA. She further told him that I am having trouble getting past the EA and that I keep bringing it up.

Basically she told the counselor a lie to get him to tell her what she wanted to hear, so that she could later relay to me what the counselor had told her about my behavior.

I will say this about our MC from 3 years ago. She knew the whole story as I laid it out in my original post. The hotel receipts, all the lies I caught my wife in etc. All the counselor said was that I cannot force my wife to tell me the truth. Therefore, if I have wanted to stay in the marriage I would have to forgive my wife, forget what happened and never throw the affair in her face.

That was the single worst piece of advice I have ever been given. Any reasonable person, especially a third party, presented with the evidence I had, could have come to no other conclusion other that the affair was a PA. So apparently our counselor thought it was OK for my wife to continue lying, that I did not deserve the truth and that our marriage could servive with a big Pink Elephant in the room.

I have learned a lot over the last couple of months about how to stand up for myself and how to demand the truth. I am still not done as I have now started the road down trickle truth. It will be like pulling teeth, but it will get done to my satisfaction.

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It is clear that your wife has absolutely no problem lying to you and even her counselor. You will have to spend an enormous amount of energy to have her to continue to trickle truth you. She just does not get it and probably never will. Have you thought about spending about $400 and get her to take a polygraph? Many times a cheating spouse will tell the whole truth before they have to take the polygraph. The sad part is that you are married to an habitual liar so it will always be difficult to know what to believe from her. I wish you luck.

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I was going to suggest a poly as well. You need to try to find some way to get this all out at once. Otherwise, you could be going on for another 3 years getting trickle-truthed. Otherwise knows as 'death by a thousand cuts'. Nobody deserves to live like that. You need to force her hand and insist on getting it all out in the open now so that you can move one.

Mindshare

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Write your WW a list of questions that you need answers to. Tell your WW that you need her to take a polygraph before you move forward with your marriage (saying no will be a dealbreaker for you). Let her answer the questions. Then have the polygraph examiner ask the questions in yes/no form to corroborate/disprove her answers. Push forward until everything is fully answered to your satisfaction. She thinks she can still hold things from you. You let her know that will not be the case.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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She LIED outright about what the counselor said and has more than likely LIED to the counselor.

If the counselor didn't tell you to your face, then it's a LIE.

Waywards ALWAYS LIE.


I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top.
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Husker,

All WSs LIE
ALL WSs LIE extensively to virtually anyone
ALL WSs LIE and will try to maintain the lies for as long as they can get away with it

It is "normal" for WSs to be (shall we say) 'less than forthcoming' with the full truth when they first consider recovery post-affair. MB encourages BSs to be somewhat patient during the withdrawal period (~6 months) and to not be over-aggressive or too demanding.

But...that all having been said, your WW's affair has been "over" we are told for 3+ years now! It seems to me that "recovery" (esp. hers) has been exceedingly slow here if she is still concealing/evading/dodging giving you the REAL TRUTH you need and deserve to clear the air and move forward together.

You surely already know the following deep down
The "real-full-truth" is far more extensive than she has let on...otherwise she wouldn't be 'trickle-truth-ing' you.
Her EA was also a PA.
Her PA was far more than 2 'accidental slip-up' sexual encounters.
The duration and timeline involved were also undoubtedly far more extensive as well.
It is typical for female adulterers to cop fairly readily to the emotional elements of the affair while denying or minimizing the physical/sexual aspects. Male cheaters tend to do the opposite.

"Men who get caught screwing around are more likely to be honest about the sex than women. Men will confess the full sexual details, even if they are vague about the emotions. Women on the other hand will confess to total consuming love and suicidal desire to die with some man, while insisting no sex ever took place. I would believe that if I'd ever seen a man describe the affair as so consumingly intense from the waist up and so chaste from the waist down. I assume these women are lying to me about what they know they did or did not do, while I assume that the men really are honest about the genital ups and downs�and honestly confused about the emotional ones."
--Dr. Frank Pittman, Private Lies


I hate to be a fly in the ointment here, Husker, but are you sure there isn't something else going on?

Are you SURE that NC has been maintained? Cuz, 3+ years is PLENTY of time for your WW to have fully emotionally detached from the OM and be able to see her affair for the destructive and selfish act that it was.

Are you sure there isn't another OM? I hope not...

It seems to me that after 3 years, your fWW should no longer be looking to sweep everything under the rug or ignore the ugly past, but would simply welcome the chance to 'get it all out once and for all'.

If this important to you--as it is and should be--I would suggest that you stop playing cat-and-mouse games with the TRUTH and compel it somehow. A firm ultimatim & verifying polygraph seems like the only plausible option since she is so relunctant to be open and honest. Otherwise, you are going to persist in this limbo state that is so intolerable to you and prevents any real trust and intimacy between you both.

I'm sorry, hope you succeed in getting what you need here...



xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Originally Posted by SDCW_man
Are you SURE that NC has been maintained? Cuz, 3+ years is PLENTY of time for your WW to have fully emotionally detached from the OM and be able to see her affair for the destructive and selfish act that it was.

SDC, you may be exactly right about another OM, but her fogginess makes perfect sense to me in view of the fact that she has lied all this time. When a WS continues to lie about the affair, they remain in a protective mode and the fantasy continues. They are very foggy because the lies are a continuation of the crime. Once she gets HONEST and gets it all out there, she will recover.

I have known WW's who were years past D-Day who were just as foggy years after the affair ended because they were lying about major factors of the affair. Honesty is always the first step in recovery. And when there is no honesty, there is no recovery.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I have always been amazed at how much lying about affairs affects waywards. They can be years past the affair and sound just as foggy as a WW who is in an affair. We know of situations where an affair was discovered many years after it ended and the WW sounds just as foggy as one who is in an active affair.

That being said, I would heed SDC's warning and snoop like a bloodhound to make sure there is not a current affair!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks for those insights, Melody.

TRUTH is the only real disinfectant here.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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I've just read both your threads for the first time. I'm so sorry all of this has happened to you. I know exactly how it feels to not know the WHOLE truth, and I can't believe that after 3 years she still would not tell you the truth when asked.

I just found out about my wife's affair on Christmas Eve. After one week, I sat down with her and explained, very calmly, that no matter what else she did, in order for me to move on with recovery, she needed to tell me every single detail. I told her that I was already prepared for the absolute worst, I have evidence for almost everything she did already, and I just wanted to know everything. I'm confident that she told me every detail that night, and I confirmed the details with the OW. That was the best thing that I ever did, because I know if I had waited for 3 years, I would've gone absolutely crazy knowing that there were details I didn't know.

Anyway, I just want you to know that we know exactly how you feel, dude. I'm also tired of therapists going back to childhood to figure out what's wrong. What's wrong was the F'N affair! Duhhhh. . . . . .

(If you're interested, my store is at http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2297991#Post2297991)

Okay, good luck man. Stay strong, and do whatever possible to make it work!





BS (Me): 32
WW: 32
D-Day: 12/28/09 (fresh in my mind)
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Here is a pretty good website I have read extensively with a lot of eye-opening info about how people become cheaters & pathologic liars and what to expect:

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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'Husker', I feel you brother. Our MC pretty much sucked....during IC she connected with me, and helped, but MC, whew, she missed the bus on it, like yours.

Talk about evidence and what other conclusion can there be? I too had some very incriminating evidence, but I didn't catch her in the act, so she used the, 'we were just friends' line, and I took it, hook, line and sinker.

21 years later the truth came out, and we are trying to work through it....reeeeeeeeal difficult, to put it mildly.

My FWW sounds a lot like yours.


Me: BH, 49 yrs old
Her: FWW 44 yrs old
A's occurred in 1988
Dday #1 (2 A's) Aug. 26, 2009
Dday #2 (3 A's) Sep. 5, 2009

My story: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/u...744#Post2279744

Not sure where we are going...?



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