I have been lurking for a while as opposed to posting in my thread, mostly because I have not felt like I needed the forum's help, and not wanting to waste your attention on my situation when there were others in more need. Also, I have been able to find a lot of answers to my questions in other posts, or through reading the books.

I can say that I feel I have grown a lot already as a result of this experience. As hard and painful as it has been (especially at first), I am *sure* I will be in a better place in the medium and long term.

I have started seeing a personal counsellor, and that has been really helpful for me. I highly recommend doing this if you are in a crisis. It is not a silver bullet, but it has been extremely valuable for me.

We are also going to a marriage counsellor, and that is going ok, although still very touch and go.

OM is out of the picture. I am aware that WW has had other past EAs and PAs of significance. I also feel like she is interested in developing new EAs (and maybe PAs), but I cant tell if I am being overly paranoid.

On the positive side, I am:

- sleeping well enough again
- focussing on executing a good Plan A and making LB$ deposits
- changing many past bad habits
- being very honest with her about my feelings with success

On the challenging side:

- I am not sure where I am at or where she is at in the process
- I have not set a Plan B date
- I get a wide range of responses from her, from "I am making a huge mistake" to physical outbursts of anger (directed at inaminate objects)
- if I had to guess, she is going through depression of loss of the A, but I am not totally sure
- I struggle with parts of Plan A
- particularly in being honest with her about my feelings, I feel sometimes I am sucked into LBing comments, and other times I make deposits by demonstrating my more honest approach
- sometimes I find it hard to know when to listen and respond versus dismiss alien talk

So, that is where things are at. Your thoughts and comments are welcomed.

mfoss, I am in admiration of your thoroughness and willingness. I don't know you, of course, and you've only been here for a short while (shorter than I), but if there is anyone better at grasping and working the MB concepts and principles than you, I haven't read their posts yet.

I envy you, too. It seems that you have the very real possibility of recovering your marriage. However, it also looks like you're going to have to do it the "old-fashioned way:" you're going to have to earn it!

From where I sit, everything about my situation is a snafu, and I've not had much chance to work MB plans according to "the book." Plan A was virtually non-existent, WW has a significant load of baggage from her past, and a seeming inability to look at herself, despite being a member of A.A. for nearly 10 years.

So I welcome your success story, mfoss. I know it can and will be rocky; I hope you share those with us, too. I know that I come here like a whipped dog with its tail between its legs when things get rough and tumultuous. It's probably the best place for me to vent, catch my breath, and get a virtual hug and a ton of support. This place is the best!

And I love reading success stories. I'm counting on yours to be the first start-to-finish success story I've read here.

Any pride I may have for a moment in adopting the MB logic is quickly tempered by the fact that I am here, and an honest realization of how poorly I have behaved in the past. Not to mention the fact that I only came around quickly with the support and honest constructive criticism from the forum. My instincts were wrong, and with your help I overcame them.

I am going to have to earn it.

It is going to be hard.

I promise you I am going to give it everything I have.

I have a situation that I would like your counsel on.

WW has been hellbent on getting an apartment, and I have been doing what I can to not enable this without lovebusting. Originally, she had wanted to get a place for her and the kids to share custody, which was not an option from my perspective.

Now she has found a short (5 week) sublet around the corner that is small, and would not accommodate the kids. She uses all the WW babble to reason for this.

I should mention OM is out of the picture. I am not sure about other OM, and of course she could go and meet someone new at anytime.

My challenge is that she can borrow the money to make this happen, and I am concerned about lovebusting by not helping out financially. If it is going to happen anyways, should I support it fully? Partially? Not at all?

Thanks in advance.

Door #3 seems the obvious choice.

Unless your ultimate intent is to D and maintain primary custody of the kids, in which case assisting with an arrangement that results in your WW being out of the house and away from a position where she can act as primary custodian could give you a strategic advantage in any custody battle.

I had a feeling someone here would say that.

I am asking because I am unsure, and I value your experience and guidance.

WW stays at a mutual friend's about half the time as it is right now. Otherwise she is on the couch at the moment.

However, I feel she is going to be able to make this happen.

And in some ways, as much as I do not like it, and understand that it is not necessarily a positive step forward towards recovery, because it is temporary, and convenient (around the corner), I am conflicted. I feel it could enable short term stability for her (in terms of getting something, and taking more radical options off the table).

Also, I understand she is legally entitled to half of our assets, and I feel that it won't serve me well to not be a little accommodating, especially in a battle I know I am not going to win. I feel like I need to pick my battles, and this might be one to concede.

But I obviously am not clear on what to do, and would value more guidance.

Mfoss,


I agree with the previous poster that if D is your goal, allow her to get a apartment using only her own income and will and let her surrender strategic ground.

But if recovery is your goal....

Don't be a enabler, how can she say shes wants to work on the marriage but she takes steps to physically seperate from you.

Sounds to me like she wants a shag pad for any current of future OM she might meet.

Wouldn't you agree MFOSS, that by living under the same roof, you'd have more opportunities to observe her behavior?

Wouldn't you agree that you'd have more opportunities to meet each others EN's?

Are her words matching her actions?

Recovery is the goal. She has no income currently.

I would have more opportunity to observe and make LB$ deposits if she was under the roof, but that is not an option. She will have access to funds to enable this soon, and so I need to respond to that reality.

My options are:

- no support, take whatever hit that has on the LB$, setup possibly more radical action (a longer term arrangement, her going legal, etc...), and she still gets the place
- support and exploit whatever positive components of the situation I can

These are not great options. I do not want be a doormat. But I also need to deal with the fact that this is going to happen, no matter what I do, or at least it feels that way, if you have ay ideas on how I STOP it, let me know!

Absolutely do not help her move ANYWHERE but home. Her choice; her money. Helping her out would only make her respect you even less.

It's all in the way it's presented, mfoss. Rather than say, "I won't let you move" or "I don't want you to move," say something like "I only support staying here and working on the marriage." The message is the same but the delivery is polar opposites.

If I am not going to support it, I am going to need to deal with the fact that I am blocking access to our financial resources, some of which she is legally entitled to. I am capable of arranging this (it is already mostly in place), but how to justify it?

I am getting a lot of family and peer pressure to allow this, and I feel it will cost me in credibility in that area as well. Granted, they have no experience or real understanding of what I am dealing with (unlike you all), but it will burn some of my support network.

OK, she has NO income, how is she getting a apartment then? Every apartment I got, they wanted income verification, I had to pay a application fee and a hefty deposit.
Does she have to do the same?


Let her borrow the money then.


I have to call BS on this one.

Apartments cost money
Lawyers cost money
Utilities cost money

This apartment of hers is a pipe dream, IMHO
She wants out, SHE can pay for it.




This is a non-starter...


MFOSS, at the risk of sounding like this is all about me... I'll tell you what I did.

When WW got her rathole apartment and she asked me for money the answer was no

no, she cant have the car
no, she cant have any money
no, she cant have anything i bought to replace what she took when she left

If she wanted money, i'd ask what for?
Food for our son? Give me receipts and I'll reimburse if i deem its for the child
Clothes for our son? Id go buy them and kept the receipts
Daycare would be paid directly by me, I kept the receipts
Any, I mean ANY other expenses needed for my son, I would require receipts

I'd be damned if i was going to pay the electric bill for both places.

I made sure my son was supported financially, but i never gave the WW money.

I had determined that any money I gave to the WW would only finance HER choices and I wouldnt be parting with one red penny until ordered to do so by the courts.

I was told, and I've heard on MB that any money given to the WW would be considered a gift and would not count towards CS.

If I am mistaken on the CS, feel free to chime in anyone

RMX, there are some exceptions. Mfoss said his WW was "getting some money."'

My WW had/has no job and no credit rating. But she came into $$$ when her family sold its homestead property. She got an apartment by paying six months' rent plus security deposit up front. Cash, no doubt.

Six months pre-paid. No arguments from someone eager to rent an empty apartment in this economy...

my WW's POSOM sold drugs to pay for the bills (sometimes)... theres always exceptions..

Since it is a short term sublet, all she needs is a little cash, which she can get through loans.

It is almost certain to happen, I need to consider my position.

What position, you don't enable, period.

Its your choice, there is no-one with a gun to your head.

Mfoss, you need to accept the possibility that this is going to happen. There may be nothing you can do about it. You simply need to (a) not enable it, and (b) keep to your stance that you will only support the marriage and nothing else.

Are we getting through to you?

I am certainly getting value from the comments so far. Thanks very much!

To be honest (and I now know that is the only reasonable policy), I still feel I have some unanswered concerns (legal consequences of access to finances, burning support network, etc...), but I am taking the advice given so far to heart, and it is valuable and helping me consider different scenarios.

Access to finances?

could you elaborate?

If its your paycheck, she isn't entitled to it, they make it out to you in your name.
If you have direct deposit, change it to go into another bank account.

If its credit cards in both your names, cancel them.

Your paycheck is used for the family, if your wife is leaving the family.. well there you go.

If you have a HELOC, talk to the bank.

If your worried about alimoney and child support, those have to be ordered by the courts...