Another question I just thought of, is seems that since yesterday most of our conversation has been about our marriage and whether he is seriously ready to commit to working on things and stopping contact with her. I have so many questions for him and etc. but when is it too much? I don't want to seem like a nag... I can't believe I just said that b/c HE has been having an EA and I'm worried about nagging him! uuggh I need help

What are you doing to Plan A him? Remember, you have to show him that you are what he wants.

I will admit that I am still working on learning to Plan A him hard core. I've called to offer to bring him food since we woke up late n couldn't make lunch. I also suggested we go to the gym together. Or the rest of today I will focus on him and trying to be his friend. It's hard since we haven't has light fin conversations in a while. I don't know how to start :-( that's the thing he said he most liked about her. Any suggestions r welcomed. Working on exposure too. He seemed so hung ho the other day when he wrote me a letter. Now that I have shown interest in him and fixing thing he seems to benpulling away. He's also fragging his feet on the NC letter. He says he just wants to write a one loner and be done with it yet he hasn't done that. I've been looking but haven't found any examples of what a NC letter should look like.

RW,

First and foremost, sorry that you are here. You are in the right place if you want to save your M. So many amazing people on this site.

Second, are you 100% sure that hasn't gone PA? It's hard for me to believe that WH has been having an EA for well over a year and it has never gone physical. You should really think long and hard about that. Unfortunately, you may need to poly your WH to get the truth. You must demand that he gives you the full story no matter how painful it is if you ever want to have a shot at true recovery.

I also completely agree that your WH has poor boundaries and if you do not address this you will be in for more of the same in the future with this OW or a new OW.

You must expose this affair to WH's family, your family, friends and anybody that could be a positive influence on your WH to see that what he has done is horribly wrong. You should also expose the affair to OW's boyfriend. He has a right to know what type of woman he is getting involved with. If he stays with her he will become an ally to you in insuring that there is NC between WH and OW.

Keep reading, posting and thinking!!!

Mindshare

Red,

I'm a newbie here too under pretty much the same circumstances:H having EA on handheld smartphone and the OW works at the same job as my H. I'm waiting for my session with Steve Harley as I type this due to the fact that I had to implement PlanB and separation due to his refusal to stop contact with OW. This happened on Sunday night and need to discuss the details surrounding that today with Steve Harley.

Here is the NC letter your H be writing:

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.


That's basically it, my H is on a friend's couch and probably has increased contact with oW as a result of my enforcement of separation (deeper issues here, internal ones within himself, not only weak boundaries).

Unfortunately I was so frazzled when I started posting that I called it "Third time a charm" so look for my thread if you're interested.

Please know that you absolutely cannot trust him right now, he is NOT who you married, you'll see him 'draw back' from your affections and care as a result of attention that he prefers to get from his EA. He likes getting it there, it lives up to a fantasy in a fantasy world ungrounded in reality and it FEELS GOOD, and will prefer it, to you being in front of him. Be strong during your PlanA, you won't regret it, but since your H is being so deceptive at this point, realize you may need PlanB, and begin to learn about it here. trust me, I never thought I'd planB my H.... Ever since my planB a calm has washed over me, protecting my residual love for my H.

I'll check with you later tonight.

Plexle

Light conversation would be talking about the elections, or Haiti, or volunteering, work, or some hobby you enjoy together. Reading the paper is a great way to find light conversation starters. "Look, honey, it says that XYZ store is going out of business. Maybe we could get that chair you always wanted, while it's on sale."

That was encouraging, thanks.

Red, so sorry that you are here, but I hope we all can help you survive this ordeal and come out with an intact marriage. I am GloveOil's wife and have been posting here only since the fall.

Your WH sounds like he is in withdrawal. He vacillates between wanting to work on your marriage and pulling away. He says he will write the NC letter but never seems to. If you can ascertain that his EA is completely over, then you need to get that NC letter sent pronto. He is probably cake-eating with you both and that needs to stop.

It's good that she has moved away, but as you have seen, contact is still very much possible and you can only control so much. That is why exposure is important. As you have seen, your pastor is not someone who will help make your WH accountable during this A. Determine who will be a good accountability partner for your WH and expose to them. We were fortunate that we had great couples as friends who we exposed to together and then asked for ongoing support. The husbands would meet with my DH regularly, call him and help him through his foggy thinking. The wives were my strength and sounding boards.

GO tried to break off the A twice without success, because he tried to do it and maintain secrecy about it. When the the OWH hired a PI and collected evidence of the infidelity, it backed GO into a corner of being exposed. Only then could he force himself to come clean to me. It's humiliating and devastating to openly reveal how low you have sunk from the person you thought you were. Exposure makes that happen.

GO also tried to spoon feed me the truth at the beginning. I think he thought he was protecting me, but it really just protects the WS. After numerous recountings of the events during exposure to friends and our MC, I feel like I have the whole story.

As for your church, I can only suggest you find a new one. We left immediately because there was still the possibility of seeing the OW or her H there. You don't have that problem, but it does trigger unpleasant thoughts for you that may interfere with your recovery.

It sounds like you are plan A'ing well. Read the book, Surviving an Affair, as previously suggested. GO and I credit it with saving our marriage. Make an effort to talk to your husband about everything, but limit A talk to brief encounters. Get counseling, but make sure the counselor is pro-MB. There are alot who will tell you to sweep it under the rug. That is no way to heal. Visit your husband at work regularly. Email him daily; call him often. Send him just because e-cards about how much you love him. Remind him why he chose you in the first place. Keep posting. I look forward to hearing how it goes.

Thank you all so much for your support during this. I talked to a family member of his and she basically blew it off and said she would get back to me. That discouraged me a bit in terms of exposure. I'm not sure who would be the person or persons that would be effective. I'm embarassed that this is going on in my marriage.

RW,

Go read Cherrychip's thread and in particular read the post on Fear that Pepperband posted. You really need to read that.

Mindshare

Red, YOU DID NOTHING TO BE EMBARASSED ABOUT!

Don't let fear win! Take control now and follow the advice here. It will clear things up for you.

I did read the post about fear. I am ready to reclaim my marriage, this has gone on long enough. My conflict comes from the fact that he was just acting like he was gung ho about things. So that's why I was discouraged about exposure. I talked to a female family member of his and she just said that she had to process the information and get back to me. I thought that she would be a good ally in getting the behavior to stop. I couldn't tell from her response how she felt about it. I would have figure she would have been disappointed and wanted to confront H about the situation. So now I'm lost on while I am providing a good home for him should I find more ppl to expose to? Sorry if I sound like an air head...I feel like I can't even think in a rational way.

Also should I try and find out who OW BF is so that I can expose to him?

Among problems you may run up against, one is that lots of people (most people, I think) just don't regard an emotional affair with the same seriousness as a physical affair. They're wrong to think this way, but that's beside the point. The ones who understand might be allies for you in exposure; the ones who don't understand, well, let them know where you stand, but don't waste too much time with them.

The important thing is that both you & especially your husband need to accept that an EA is just as bad & serious as a PA. EAs are what makes PAs possible, for guys & women who never would've considered just getting into a PA. I'm not sure if your H's A was physical or not, and I'm not sure you're sure, either. If your H didn't get into a PA, then he might not be ready to admit that what he's been involved in qualifies as "an affair." That hurdle will have to be overcome before you can recover your marriage.

From your description of their recent contacts (surreptitious phone calls, etc.), I can't know of course, but it sounds possible they may still be in contact & taking things "underground." From your account, your H still doesn't seem to get the following key point: If a relationship has to be a secret, then one shouldn't be in it.

This being the case, please don't be afraid to put your foot down hard. Back before my EA went all the way physical, my wife & I had a discussion one night, and she confided that she had apprehensions about me spending time alone with my OW to practice songs. I lied to her & told her that nothing untoward was going on. And I told her that I wouldn't spend time alone w/OW anyway if it made her uncomfortable (which I meant when I said it, but which I didn't stick to.) Anyway, my wife believed me, because she wanted to believe me, because I'd always been a good man, through my entire life, up to autumn 2008. Looking back, even though the blame for my getting into an affair is entirely mine, TWC and I both wish that she'd put her foot down harder on that occasion; we wonder whether it could've helped stop things before I went all the way to the bottom. Something you'll often hear around this site, and I believe it's true: Don't be afraid of making him angry. Your marriage can survive his anger, but it can't survive ongoing dishonesty.

I can only say from reading here (and not from my own experience) that you should expose to the BF. He has a right to know what's going on. He may be a good source of NC info as well. As for other people to expose to, consider his brother (didn't you say he confided in him from time to time); or someone in your families that has a good marriage and will be bold with your husband. A caveat is that some people don't know what to do with information like this about a loved one, and don't have the kind of relationship with a wayward that they would boldly confront them about their behavior.

I am praying for you and your husband.

he might not be ready to admit that what he's been involved in qualifies as "an affair."

Yes he has said recently that he does not consider it as an affair. I'm not sure how getting him to realize it is will happen.

From your description of their recent contacts (surreptitious phone calls, etc.), I can't know of course, but it sounds possible they may still be in contact & taking things "underground."

I think this is what's going on, or at least he is trying to keep his options open. They've already been underground for the past year I would hope that they would both be tired of it.

He has said that they have not gotten physical but there's no way for me to know the truth. Is there any hope that one day I will know the whole truth?

TWC as far as exposing to the BF. In order to find out who he is, I will have to expose to a friend of ours...I'm not sure how that will go but I'm going to muster up the strength to get the job done. His brother may not be as bold with him as needed. I will explore the idea though.

Thanks for your prayers. I really want my marriage to work out, and don't want to have to take our child away from his father.

You do NOT own this RW. Your WH does. These are possible outcomes of his adultery. Do not take ownership of it!

I will reiterate this again. I find it nearly impossible to believe that it has been only an EA that has been going on for over a year. It is possible to get the whole truth someday but it might require a polygraph. A number of BS's here have required it as a condition of recovery and have gotten the truth.

Mindshare

Anyone whose respect he wants.

Mother, father, brother, sister, and his children, especially. Then...aunts or uncles, cousins, best friends, pastor, even neighbors if they're close.

You don't seem to believe that exposure works. If you'd read other threads here, you'd see it has a POWERFUL effect on waywards because they convince themselves that what they're doing is ok. They justify. But when a family member calls them and says "Do I have this straight? You're cheating on your wife and running the risk of her taking your kids away just so you can have a quickie on the side? I am ASHAMED of you" - well, then, suddenly all those justifications look mighty weak indeed.

Yes! Today!

Mindshare I find it hard to believe that the EA has not gone to a PA either. Mind you he does not believe that this is catergorized as an affair.

I'm having trouble thiking of who's opinion he respects. I called a parent earlier today and the response was that they will get back with me later. That left me confused. I do believe that it works though.

He just sent me a draft of a NC he will send to OW. I don't like the way it sounded.

It was along the lines of I want to let you know that I am going to disconinue communication. I have carried on a friendship that my wife does not approve of. To avoid further conflicts b/t she and I and to rebuild our marriage this is a choice for our future. I can't change the past but I can start making better decisions.

To me that is WEAK and could be read as he is being forced to compose the letter. I'm so mad that he was the one who was so gung ho about rebuilding and wrote me such a passionate letter and his NC is so weak. I'm not sure how to tell him I don't like it without getting upset and yelling. I'm trying to avoid love busters. Any help on this?