Jon,

I just read your arrangement and am screaming through my monitor at you.

Guess what. I was YOU!

I too was told all kinds of nice nice stuff about how friendly and amicable the D would be and that I'd get to see the kids all the time.

IT'S A LIE!

You believe it because you are desperate to believe it and want to think there is a shred of hope.

DO NOT TALK DIVORCE WITH HER!

And lawyer up.

What you described is something that no judge or lawyer would ever approve.

Not only that, but overnights with the kids determine child support. So she is setting you up fat and nice by giving you the idea you'll take care of the kids all the time.

NOPE. You are basically a babysitter and will have to pay CS out the nose. Overnights determine CS and overnights are what the state you're in says they are, not what your WW says they are.

I'M A 2X4 THAT NEEDS TO HIT YOU OVER THE HEAD OVER AND OVER TILL YOU GET IT! YOU'RE BEING MANIPULATED AND IT IS EASY BECAUSE YOU LOVE HER AND HAVE A SHRED OF HOPE.



There isn't any. Once the papers are signed she will toss you aside like yesterdays garbage. She's being nice to you only for as long as necessary to get you to go along with her little plan.

If she's the primary bread winner, then she can be the one liable for the legal fees. She's screwing your kids already by committing adultery and destroying your family.

You have a case to make for primary custody.

You also need to wake up and see that life will not be able to continue as normal.

The smartest thing for you to do is to find a way to pay for a lawyer. The dumbest thing you can do is not get one. You will be one of the sad stories we read about of a man stripped of everything and who knows what he does to himself in the process.

I've been there.

What happened to me? I fell for all the garbage my WW fed me. I went along with it "to be amicable" and "for the kids".

Once my fog lifted I realized I was broke, without my stuff, without a job, without my kids, and still dependent on paying her CS out the nose.

It took massive legal fees, a massive and painful legal battle, and tons of money to finally secure my rights as a father.

Check my name. I'm on here because men like you compell me to post. I was in your shoes. I know exactly how you feel. I thought exactly as you're thinking and paid for it dearly.

So defog riki tik.

What would I do in hindsight? I would have gathered all my evidence, gone for full custody, and crucified her in court for adultery. I would have been able to do it too if I had kept my head about me and listened to the folks on MB who were trying to get through my massive fog that I was being played like a fiddle.

You're that man right now.

What would I have done if I had wanted to save my marriage? I honestly think my ex wouldn't have defogged with the Plan A approach or the Plan B. It would have taken Plan FU, get the heck out of my house, take your crap and I'll see you in court. The wakeup would have come once she saw me grow a pair, how much she had to lose, and maybe then woken up. Even then, she may not have. Plan A and B wouldn't have worked on my ex short of me getting primary custody of the kids, which I was likely to get had I fought things smartly from the start.

Truthfully, I'm very happy to have her out of my life. I'm much happier now than I would have been with her.

You want to save your marriage? Then understand that all this divorce talk on her part is just talk until you get served. Until then, you need to Plan A, Plan B, and if necessary, Plan FU and D.

Man up. Wake up. This is a warning from a man who has walked 20 miles in your shoes already and is trying to keep you from making the same mistake.

You know what my lawyer told me when I told her what happened to me? That I'm not uncommon and it is a common ploy played by women on heartbroken men to have things go their way.

Get it through your head that she is the devil incarnate right now. How does the devil get you to go down the wrong path? Through deceit and temptation. He gets his way, you get screwed.

That's what she's doing to you right now with all this hope and amicability talk.

Not only that, but once you're divorced and are living together, she will manipulate you until she makes her full escape. She'll drag you along because you buy the crap she's feeding you. I was there too.

Jon,

My exWW was a stay at home mom. I had a custody hearing back in August, I'm still waiting word, but worst case for me will be 50/50 and I may even get the kids. You know why? I didn't fall for my exWW's BS for an "amicable" divorce. I was like you, feeling sorry for myself, blaming myself for everything. I was ready to sign an agreement where I would be every other weekend and Wednesday night dad because I was believing those who said dads don't get the kids. Then, I walked in on exWW with OM.

If I had given in, my kids would have been raised by a home wrecking scumbag. Fight for your kids. Don't settle for any custody arrangement that is less than 50% of overnights unless it is ordered by a judge.

You are going to need to gird up for a long battle and will need to grow gonads of steel. First off, go buy a downloadable voice recorder. False domestic violence charges are the favorite tactic of Wayward Wives who want a quick and easy solution to the divorce. Have the tape recorder in your pocket going at all times when you are with the WW. She hasn't indicated anything yet but with her family not too happy with you moving back in, it's a matter of time before she starts thinking about the domestic violence card.

Jon

Please LISTEN to PSUBIKER.

I followed his situation in amazement. PSUBIKER has the scars from a very nasty situation. His is trying to prepare you. Are you LISTENING to what he is telling you??


It may be hard to comprehend right now but he can potentially save you from a world of hurt if you are willing to listen. You need to look after yourself and prepare for the situation facing you. You might want to be the nice guy but you are not the "moving" party here. She is.

Is she responding favorably to your being a nice guy? How is that working for you?

Good luck

BCBoy

I'm an attorney.

You MAY consider going on Friday to meet with the attorney...for one tricky reason.

Go in a make it appear you intend to play nice and get the attorney to agree to be your joint attorney (representing BOTH of you in an amicable divorce). Take a $50 or $100 bill with you. Lead the attorney down the path of amicableness. Don't sign ANYTHING but don't argue anything either. If he senses a problem at all he won't agree to representing you both because he knows that he could lose BOTH clients if that happens. Near the end of the meeting ask what you need to pay to see this through. Give him the $100 bill as a down payment and tell him you'll bring him a check for the rest on Monday, next week. You might have to play really dumb/niave. Then when you are leaving, nonchalantly say, "oh yeah, can I get a receipt". [this all may be complicated if your in-laws are paying the bills]

On Monday morning fax over a short letter indicating that you are firing him and have since retained your own lawyer. You MAY even be able to request a copy of the entire file and NOTHING should be privileged. He CAN NOT have communication with your wife or in-laws that you are not privy too (though getting him to divulge such is easier said than done)

That lawyer then CAN NOT represent your wife in the divorce. He can't be her attorney against you...his former client (and you've got the receipt to prove it). She'll have to get another attorney which then gives you time to perhaps engage your attorney quickly and file for divorce first. You could even get a head start on that this week by meeting with an attorney even though your wife thinks you'll be coming Friday to meet hers and play nice. Tell your attorney your plan and if he's aggressive enough he'll say go for it because it gives him a few days to get his paperwork in order and file first. He/she may also tell you what I'm saying won't work and is a complete waste of time. It may not be the most "professional" or ethical thing for your attorney to advise you DIRECTLY to do...so don't ASK him if you should do it...instead offer the fact pattern as a hypothetical and see if he/she thinks such "hypothetical" would work....then decide for yourself whether you want to do it or not.

Remember...filing first has it's advantages....so it would behoove you to win the race to the court house.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I've read about some spouses in small towns running around getting consultations with all the local divorce attorneys...paying them a small fee for an initial consult and then eventually hiring the best one. In such event...their spouses' have ended up having to hire an out-of-town divorce attorney...which in small towns, don't typically fair so well with the local good ole boys legal network.

WOW
Mr. Wondering. May I say congratulations. This is brilliant. You are an excellent man on strategy.

Jon I think you should be feeling a lot better as you have got the heavy hitters wading in trying to help you.

Good Luck
BCBoy

I know, I do feel better. You all are beyond right on everything it's just you know how I feel, you've been in my shoes. I do love my wife with all my heart and thats why she manipulates me. I'm going to man up and take care of me and my family. She can hate me if she wants, I've already lost her it seems anyways, even though again while I'm here I will do plan A.
I seen a chat log between her and her best friend last night, and it was talking about how she wants to talk to the OM so bad but she knows it won't work between them.
Her best friend was telling her how much happier she would be in the long run if she gets the divorce (her best friend is D) I will go down there with her and "pretend" for the amicable divorce then behind the scenes I will be plotting my attack. I can't wait to find out what she is going to propose so I can let you all in on it. don't worry I AM NOT signing ANYTHING!

ok also I now have a Digital pocket voice recorder. I will try to keep it on when I am around her.

So right now am I still supposed to be trying to save the marriage? it's hard for me to think on these lines when I want to DESTROY her for this. I know behind the scenes I will be preparing for the worse, but in the house with my kids I will still be doing plan A right?

Jon,

You're not trying to destroy your wife. You are destroying the A that your WW is having while protecting your family of her decisions.

--ElCamino72

she again has been sitting in her room crying all day long as usual. She was on the phone telling someone "I am stressed and why shouldn't I be" it was not him though because of the other parts of the conversation. She still thinks there is a possibility they could be together from the conversation I saw between her and her best friend last night.

Jon,

As you probably know, it is totally expected that she'll miss OM after NC. The worst part of withdrawal could last weeks. So brace yourself to handle this kind of behavior for a while. Beware that she'll most likely try to break NC so be vigilant.

Be strong. You don't need to protect her from the consequences of her actions. But try to stick with Plan A. Do not commit LBs. Avoid relationship conversations at all cost. If you find yourself talking about relationship stuff for more than 5mins then change subjects. This is not the time to try to discuss marital issues with your WW.

I think turtle had a great suggestion of focusing on your side of the equation. It's good that you are making a great effort to continue in plan A. However, it seems like you've been doing a lot of house chores. That's good but you may want to look into meeting other ENs as well (well, the OM was not doing the dishes and she fell for him).

Especially look into affection. It's difficult at this point but if you go out send her a text saying that you're thinking about her and will be there for her. Those details may get her to slowly open up. Plan a picnic or some outing with the kids and invite her.

Can you come up with a list of specific ideas on how to get WW to go out with you and the kids or a gesture to express subtle affection?

Keep at it

--ElCamino72

I have been trying to meet her biggest EN of conversation but now that you mention it it wasn't conversation it was the affection the other man gave.
I have stayed away from affection because of the difficulty during this situation. Should I tell her i am worried about her or that I am thinking about her? She won't let me touch her at all so thats out big time, if i did try to hug her or anything it would be so ackward at this point that it's not possible. I can try to think of some fun things we could all go out and do but I'm sure at this point she would refuse at all cost.
see things seem to get better but then she spends the day with her Aunt or she talks to her friend and they both are trying to get her to go through with the divorce so even if she did deep down change her mind she would feel almost obligated to do it at this point.

I have never been in this position, you all have, what are some ideas you could think of to show affection to a woman that doesn't want anything to do with you?

Listen to me.

Your WW is doing the same things mine did. This is completely normal for a WW in her situation.

If you want a divorce, go file for one at the courthouse today, and go hire an attorney (Or vice versa if you choose)

If you do NOT want a divorce DO NOTHING!!
(but save for a lawyer)

You have NOT been served, there is NO divorce.
Do not go see her lawyer
Do not talk about Divorce
Do not agree to anything

My wife did eventually file, at the courthouse, for $50.00. Thats all it takes if you really want a divorce.

As soon as I was served I hired the best divorce lawyer in my county and told her I did not want a divorce, stall it!!

She did, by almost a year.

(WW poped a gasket when she read the counter suite )

WW slooowley defogged over time, and eventually (All though still a little fogy) went down to my lawyers office and asked to drop the suite.

It takes time to defog.

But if you WANT A divorce, just go file for one today.

I do not want the D at all. I want to save my marriage. i will save for a lawyer and go speak to one (free consultation) I am getting so much mixed advice i don't know what to do. read over this page and see what everyone is telling me. Gack you seem to have been in a situation similar to mine and your wife returned to you, so I take your advice.

You want to know why that is?

It's because she feels like she is betraying/cheating on OM with you if she allows this. It will pass, hopefully faster for her than it took my WW.

Show affection in non physical ways for now. Let her approach you with the physical

Jon,

Try to do your best when when she's in a good mood. Do not force anything. When she's sulking or crying I'd say to let her be. I don't think it is a good idea to say that you worry about her. I think it's better to be positive.

Affection can be expressed in words when you let her know that you're thinking of her. You may incidentally remind her of good time you've had. e.g. "I just passed by <insert place>. Brings me good memories. We had a blast that day. Thinking of you." Make it casual, positive and don't pose it as a question.

You've mentioned that she was laughing the other day and acting normal. Those moments may be the best opportunity. Try to be subtle. e.g. when both of you're laughing touch her briefly like it was accidentally.

Play with your kids around her. You can be carrying one of your kids and hand him over to her in a playful manner (you may get to "accidentally" hug her).

Get creative. Just look for opportunities and test the waters a little bit when the right time comes. Don't be like a robot or try too hard.

I don't know if this would work in your case. When my WW was going through withdrawal (first day I came back home after D-Day). I said "Honey come here for a second". When she came closer I hugged her. She broke down and cried on my shoulder for a minute. The only thing I said was "We're gonna be OK". However, that was a risky move so be careful that the ambush approach may backfire.

--ElCamino72

Jon,

You can follow a mixture of Mr W's advice and Gack's advice. Don't file if you don't wish to, but I do recommend you follow Mr. W's advice for the lawyer and "amicable" D.

You see, I was bamboozled into going to an "amicable" session. I was unprepared. I had received no advice. I gave my ex the benefit of the doubt and thought that the vague language written in our divorce agreement would protect my rights as a father.

It didn't.

If you do go, sign nothing. Take the document with you and say you will read it over and consider it.

Do what Mr. W says since it would cause a massive dealay for your WW. Delay and time are your friends if your goal is to save your marriage.

There is no rush to divorce and contesting it gives you that time.

Then you don't need to do anything.

You can consult with an attorney, but I would ask around and find out who others recommend. And do NOT let them talk you into divorce if you are not ready for one. If they try to, just thank them for there time and leave.

You have not been served, there is no divorce....


Yet!


She may do like my WW did and actually go file. If she does, don't fret, hire a lawyer and stall. Stall until either WW drops it, YOU are ready for divorce, or it can't be stalled any longer and it is inevitable.

You can also answer her suite with your own, I did.
It ticked WW way off that her dirty laundry would be aired in a courtroom for all to hear. But it also made divorce have a few cons that she did not count on.

My state is a no fault state, but you can still file, or contest on the grounds of adultery. Even though it supposedly cant be considered in the ruling, it will be known, the judge will hear/see it, and it will taint the decision.

I did not, as soon as I was served I scheduled an appointment with my lawyer. I had already chosen one after considerable research.

Once it gets to legal documents, it's business.
I contested EVERYTHING!!
And I went for EVERYTHING!!

Funny, it never maid it to court