Hey HappyL

Thanks for your post, I understand what you are saying and I guess the only frustration I have is at myself at this point because it seems that in the MB eyes I havent made much progress when infact I am a million miles away from the hatred, FWS torture and most of all the unforgivness and anger that I had at the beginning of this process. The feelings I have for OW have substantially calmed down since FWS left his job and she hardly ever comes up now as opposed to a few months back when we talked more about her than we did about us.
Xmas party wise I expressed over and over again what an obsession it was, I tryed my best to explain how importaint it was to me to meet FWS work colleagues as it wasnt an option for him to leave his job at the time and if he was going to work with OW I needed my presence to be felt and the bonus for me personally was the reassurance from his work colleagues as to being truly shocked he had A with OW when he had me at home, pathetic yes but im not happy with the way I look or who I am so sometimes holding onto someones kinds words is what gets me through the self hatred.
Forgivness I dont have a problem with I dont ever bring the A up and throw it at him anymore, even when I have done 14 hour shift cleaning Mcdonalds floors while he is at home waiting to get a new job so we can be financially secure again, its times like these that resentment just wants to prevail but I wont let it, I get home and look at all the hard work he has done around the house and how happy the kids look and just try to hold on to that to drown the pain in my back, arms, legs and heart.
So if forgiveness is underway whats the problem? well its forgetting, letting go to him, not shutting off emotionally etc.
So now im taking all of your advice and working on me. Im evaluating what I want out of life what type of future do I need etc, I have applied to a new Job, while waiting for the paramedic scheme to restart, I am still going to the group therapy sessions and I have lost more weight (not on purpose this time. So you see I dont beleive im still in the same place that you describe above. Especially in the sense of making FWS jump through hoops etc. He does his own thing and I havent asked anyhing from him a part from jobwise and to try and communicate more when he has positive feelings about things so I know when im getting things right and meeting his EN's. I dont even know what my EN's are anymore so I havent pressed him to meet anything.

Here is just one thing I am struggling with regarding your post and that is the fact that his PA was not the first A that he has had, he had 3 EA's over the internet all of which resulted in pain and suffering for me but instead of learning, understanding and just not repeating the offences he escalated into a PA. That I blame myself for because I didnt know about MB I had no idea about any of this, all I did at the time was cry and get devastated for a few weeks then "get over it" he still went back on the internet and I didnt even check up on his activities.
This is what scares me about this situation if he once again failed to understand the pain and misery A can have (both PA and EA) then the chances of reoffending are high IMO. So I demanded the things that I did from him, its not the only reason its just another reason for my behaviour. However I am aware now that I cant control what he does I can only do my part and hope for the best which is where im at now.

Wow BH28, you do sound in a different place. I don't pick up on quite so much defensiveness and very little anger (if any) in your last post. I hope that you and your family begin to find more peace.

I think it is great you are trying to work on self. If you grow as a person, your marriage will benefit and grow as well. I notice that you are still making comments about your husband not being liked/respected by people in general because of his affair. Can you refrain from making these comments, or having those thoughts? If you can, I really think it would benefit you a lot. How can husband be a good husband/father if he has such bad feelings about himself? It may help to build him up a little. It may be your opinion that he isn't well respected but on a whole, I am not sure that is true. Many men have affairs with women who are trashy, ugly etc...even prostitutes. These same men may leave their wives and family and if they do, many people lose respect for that man. Your husband didn't do that, he is trying to recover the marriage along with you.

I am happy to hear things are going better, hope they continue to. Being positive and staying busy may help to keep the bad thoughts away. Hopefully you can bury those thoughts with new ones. Trade in the bad memories for new memories. Is there any way you and H can take a weekend together without the kids? Or even a day?

Wow, you story sounds almost like mine. I have the same problems, the memories and all. Wanting him to see the OW as the bad person she really is. I tell my husband often that I just want my old husband back. It's like I've been sleeping with a stranger. All I've been hearing is that it's going to take time, there is no over night fix unfortunately. An affair is so embarssing, and it hurts more the loosing a love one. I can't believe I'm even in this situation.

Really sorry to hear about that 26 years. Are you still together?

Sorry for the t/j...

Thanks ST I do feel much better now NC fully in place, took huge financial gamble with WS leaving his job but things are working out ok, he now appreciates much more what it takes to look after 4 kids and being stuck at home all the time and I appreciate his point of view of having gone to work all day and coming home etc. Its been an eye opening role reversal. WS went for a job interview today with the original better hours job he applied for late last year (the one my friend suggested at the beginning of my posts) and he made it through to the next round of interviews, it will be great family hours and much better pay with company car so im just beginning to feel that things are finally looking up family wise and im not on edge as he will be working alone no females etc involved.

That's about it. My sis and I were talking today about how once you start to appreciate things (and give thanks) and recognise the good, that things start improving all round. Those angels are watching - just be sure to ask for their guidance.

HL I understand your point of view regarding the loss of respect from others towards my FWS I just feel so bad for him when I see how much people have changed towards him. I am not in agreement with them and refrain from telling them about any marriage issues I just tell them about the progress he is making in the hope that they can see what a great person he is trying to become.
The people with most anger towards him are my single feemale friends (odd i know) they keep saying if a nice guy like your FWS can do something like that what chance do we stand of trusting a man. I realise this is their own insecurity but I just tell them that he is only human and try to explain the MB meeting EN needs and that there is a way to prevent this happeneing to them etc.
Weekend or even a night away is mission impossible his parents are not able to help with the children due to his nans bad health at the moment and friends wise we are all busy helping with the funeral arrangements for my friend. Tomorrow for example is my first day off in 6 days straight of work and we are spending it decorating my friends bedroom as a surprise so she has somewhere to relax with all the stress she has gone through with the pregnancy and birth of her son. Its always manic my end.

26 years im so sorry your going through this the best advice that I have learned on here is DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON OW. really dont, its not worth getting him to feel anythign about her because even if its negative thoughts at the end of the day it involved him thinking about her and you really dont want that, she is a trashy person whoever she is and is not worth your thinking time, its just a distraction from getting to a good place in your marriage. Make sure NC is in place. Post your story on here and get the vets to help you with the things you struggle with. Many people who have followed the advice have had a great deal knowledge intelligence in the way they dealt with tehir issues. This is an emotional situation that you need to have your wits about you to overcome. Images will get better, you will get to know your WS again and you will get some level of reasonable trust again, the embarassment wont even matter once you understand why these things can happen. Yes it takes time but I think that this is one thing that has to be done once properely or risk having to go throught it again and again.

Hey everyone

question of the day is... am I learning or am I still the angry ogre that I was when I joined MB???

here is what happened

WS came home from job interview, passed the literacy and numeracy tests well there were 25 applicants and he was one of the 6 that got through. All good so far no problems. He has to go to a full day interview in a hotel 200 miles away on the february 22, again no issues there, then if he passess this interview day he will be going away for 3 weeks staying at a hotel 300 miles away for the job training no problem there as arranged to go stay with a friend local to the training centre for a week of he 3 in order to still see him as never been away from family that long. Again all reasonable. Whats the hold up??

Well FWS tells me yesterday evening that he thinks I should know that there is a woman he found very attractive at the test day and she got through to the full interview day. He is telling me because he has learned from MB to protect his weaknessess and this involves full disclosure of any women related issues. He told me they never spoke once all day and that he made the whole group aware (during a group discussion) that he was married with kids. I didnt get angry I didnt fight with him I just said thanks for letting me know. He expected full song and dance about how well he had done by telling me about this woman. Am I going crazy or is it reasonable that the fact he finds another woman "very attractive" is just not nice to hear! I just calmly explained that I am aware that I cannot control what he does or thinks so what else could I add to his statement a part from thanks for letting me know. He knows the consequences of cheating he knows the marriage will be over if he was to do it again I just didnt feel the need to go on about that.

If this woman makes it through and gets the job and he gets the job i am going to be uncomfortable but then i am trying to be reasonable in the sense that they wont be working in the same office (this job involves working from home responding to call outs) so why am I still so annyoed that just when things are getting somewhere I am thrown right back into insecurity land??

Should I be moving this to the recovery board??

Dear BH28:

please read my thread, i need your help...sorry i just need you to give me some objective opinions. i trust you and think of you as a friend.

i need help......

Hey everyone this is an SOS call need serious advice and help
please things are real bad and I need advice from the vets as its a very difficult situation.

Basically I have a really close friend and she has been spending alot of time with me and FWS lately and it was ok as I trusted her completely even though she is single and has a 6 year old daughter that adores my FWS. Our kids go to school together and we even took her and her daughter away with us on holiday last year so we are pretty close. Lately however I have been feeling a little strange about her friendship with my FWS they do spend alot of time together when i am at work, she has been overstaying her welcome a few evenings when i craved time alone with H and even came out with us on valentines day for a meal because she had no one and i didnt want her to feel alone plus it eased the akwardness between me and FWS if we went out as a group. She has never showed any signs of being interested in my H and he has never shown signs of being interested in her however i cant shrug off a feeling of uneasiness. She was supportive when H had the A and was disgusted by his actions however she has now forgiven him and tells me i need to let go of it. Little things bug me like when we are all having a conversation about anything together her gaze and focus would always be on my H and often talks over me and stands up for him in discussions. Again i dont know if im just being paranoied but it just feels odd. She does come and tell us about any men she meets or gets together with and she is in and out of relationships and also I know up to a certain point she loves our kids very much (she is godmother to the youngest) so I cant immagine her overstepping that line but nothing is impossible.

The thing that has kicked all this off is that tonight H has revealed that he told my firend that we had not been intimate lately in a conversation they had where he was explaining that he was tiered and i was not sleeping well therefore he was not sleeping well (another issue due to me working my butt off and him being a stay at home dad and having enormous financial stresses because of that so been too stressed to get intimate), I have a huge issue with this, you see I have no problem discussing things like that with her as she is a female friend my point is that he has broken his boundries. he should not be discussing things like that with members of the opposite sex no matter how much as a friend they may be. It really annoys me that he thinks its ok to confide in my friend about things like that as he is the friends turn to affair kind of guy not the pick up a chick down the bar kind of guy hence why im starting to feel uncomfortable and totally irate at this friendship since discovering that he discussed our intimacy issues with her. She has not discussed it with me she has not come to me and told me about that conversation nor has she even attempted to hint or discuss anything, this worries me too.

I feel that i have no choice now but to cut this firend off as he has overstepped the boundries but i am really angry that i have to loose a friend that i like and spend alot of time with due to his actions. Is there another way, am i overreacting, what to i do?????

No question, it was a boundary violation on his part to be confiding info of that sort to her. The Rule of Protection applies to him here: You need to let him know that this is not something that makes you feel safe. (No AO, though. And it was better for him to have revealed this breach-of-boundary to you himself rather than leave it unmentioned.)

Of course I'm not in position to speculate re: why your friend didn't mention to you that he revealed this private info about your marital relations. Perhaps she felt it was awkward for herself to have been presented with that info; or perhaps wanted to spare you or him embarrassment; but there is also a risk that she appreciates being a confidante of his, and if so, that's a game you need to put an end to.

I think that you need to ask your friend about this, and about why she kept quiet, and you need to let her know that you don't appreciate it when H shares that sort of info outside the marriage. If she has spent a lot of time with you & H together as a threesome conversing about your situation, then perhaps he, and perhaps she, have mistakenly developed the incorrect impression that it's also in-bounds for conversation when they are alone together at the children's bus stop of whereever. You should make clear to each of them separately that it's out-of-bounds for conversation between them.

As for overstaying a welcome, true friends do not do this when it has been clearly communicated to them that the couple needs the friend to leave so that the couple can have some alone time. On the occasions when she has overstayed, did you or your H communicate clearly that her visit needed to be over, or were you being too polite for your own good?

You H needs to be very mindful of his personal boundaries, to be sure. Having said this, it sounds in general like not only your H, but you as well, need to do a better job recognizing & defending your marital boundary. For a couple in your sitch, sharing Valentine's Day seems unadvisable. (Did you & FWS get your 15 hours' UA time that week?) Your first charity needs to be your marriage. Knowing that this friend is important to you, it's possible that your H feels that he's not on firm ground if HE (as opposed to YOU) were to ask her to leave. After all, she is YOUR friend, who has helped his wife deal with the emotional aftermath of HIS misdeeds. So imho YOU need to be sure to play a part in making clear to your friend the boundaries around your home. (Inviting her to share Valentine's Day with you probably doesn't communicate a strong boundary there.)

You pose a stark choice between losing the friend in order to eliminate a threat to the marriage. It may come to that, if you don't feel you can trust your friend. (Obviously, you are being prudent not to trust your husband.) What about having the friend, but with proper boundaries? Can't you see your friend outside your home instead of in it? Your friend should be able to understand the importance of that for you. (Needless to say, so should your H, as an extraordinary precaution.)

Even pre A this would have been uncomfortable for me but postA.... This is not just his boundary problem. This is begging for another A.

God's Blessings,

Say

gloveoil you are spot on in your analysis, yes i did not ask her to leave and yes it was my decision to invite her to valentines day so yes totally agree with you but as far as H goes he has hated any of my previous friends company and would make it clear if he didnt want them coming out with us etc however this friend is a joint friend, she knew my H before she knew me so he has always found her easy to get on with and as a group we do have days out to the seaside or cinema trips with teh kids etc, its a pretty easy friendship in a sense that we can both equally talk to eachother, as far as i know she does not confide in H generally she comes to me but anything relating to car troubles or home improvements issues she will go to him, so its odd that he spoke to her about something that intimate when she does not share her intimate life with him but rather us in general. He is now getting upset because he does not understand how a WS is to have someone to talk to when he doesent bond with males well. My answer is tough luck he has now proven to be untrustworthy with female friends ( i refere to the PA and the 3 internet EA he has had that started as friends) therefore he should only confide in males and its not my problem that he has no close male firends, he should make an effort to go find some. I know i am being harsh here but my patience does have limits

This is a no-brainer, bh. When your gut is singing out you need to listen to it!

Friend needs to find other friends. Your H needs to confide in YOU, not other women. Ever. This business of being unable to bond with males doesn't fly.

Hey Everyone thought its time for an update.

Sorry I havent been on the boards lately but it has been too painful to read all the progress in the early days that has now gone to pot.

so where are things today?? I cant beleive I am actually saying this as I was immagining that at some point there would be an end to the pain but thanks to the lack of effort, care and understanding from my WS (no longer FWS) I find myself still struggling and in excrutiating pain. Its not the same pain as the start where its just traumatic its a pain that goes much deeper as the lack of progress seams to reflect on me being a "not deseving human of basic care" rather than on him just being a horrible man.

Here is exactly whats been going on...

Had coaching with Steve Harley up until December 2009 then WS left his job working with OW and stayed at home for 3 months solid while I worked overtime to cover the bills, during his time at home instead of thinking, helping, understanding, and just basically taking the opportunity to work on EN's and moving the relationship forward he did NOTHING, absolutely nothing. Dont have a reason why he did nothing as I was applying MB principals and giving him time to be himself in the hope that him being himself would include caring about me and our marriage. I got that one wrong.

Next after huge effort on my part got him a job reccomended by a friend (mentiones in forum before) that has the potential to make our lives much much better all round. Slight downfall was the job required a 4 week training period 150 miles away from home staying at a hotel and coming home at weekends. Again excrutiating experience for me taking into consideration what WS got up to last time he was in a hotel room. Tryed to apply MB set some ground rules (no drinking no getting too close to female colleagues and maintain contact with family while away). Rules were broken over and over and over again, WS drank, WS added attractive female colleagues as friends on FB and WS did not maintain contact with family, he had promised the children that he would call them every night to say goodnight, he failed to do so on numerous occasions leaving me to deal with upset/distressed children. I was devastated. He would make excuses for his behaviour and came back totally regressed from any progress he had made with Steve, the owned list he made on here for one was shot to pieces.
At one point when I questioned him about why had he not called me on one occasion his response was "I was tiered and anyway u said u wanted me to call you when I am thinking about you not just like a robot" nice way to imply that he wasnt thinking about me or his family at all.

Now course over been home a month and the errors and regression continues. Can anyone give me one good reason as to why I shouldnt just ask him to leave??

I dont feel any love I just feel sadness. The love bank is filing for banktruptsy and I am truly sick and tiered of the life I feel stuck in. Is it really to much to ask for a cheating partner to feel guilt, understanding over the way they have traumatised you?? I guess in my case the answer is yes

PS forgot to mention just to add insult to injury OW has been getting a female friend to send me messages on FB saying "Im F%^&*NG your husband", I am 100% sure its her and it has set me back emotionally into the hting her and wanting to rip her life apart mode.

Wow

Just revisited my MB journey and I am mortified. I have gotten used to the term bs fog but I feel like I was in a new kind of mad hatter style bs fog at the start of this journey.

For the sake of anyone who is unfortunate enough to come accross this thread here is a mini update and conclusion.

Arrived to MB a year after the A, WH was still working with the OW and I can clearly say I had lost any bit of sanity I had left by this point.

Kind souls like sugarcane (to whom I am eternally grateful) and many others tried to get through to me. I was too far gone, didn't listen , didn't act and made excuses.

Carried on suffering for 2 more years.

Made a complete mess of things a few times.

Argued and apologised a few times more but worse than that my marriage was in a horrific state.

Tried a half baked recovery a few times by taking shortcuts in the MB plan.
Failed miserably at recovering the marriage.

Thanks to the patience and support of this forum picked myself up and this time I truly applied the MB recovery plan.

1 year ago FWH and I started true recovery 100% the MB way.

Now.

Happily married and building a healthy loving marriage daily.

DH worked hard with me on recovery, he has not broken one single EP, he has not let me down once, he has truly joined me in rebuilding our marriage and gained my respect and love again.


In return I have apologised for my crimes against our marriage and worked very hard at making my own amends and finally accept responsibility for my mistakes especially the DJs.

I no longer ever think of the OW. My triggers are very rare.

When I reflect on the person that first arrived here, the anger, pain, frustration and sadness I was engulfed in and how I actually choose to remain in that state for 2 more years because I made excuses not to take the MB road to recovery fully I feel sad but very proud of how far we have come in our recovery.

I read MB every day and post when I need to.

I just hope more newbies can learn faster than I did that there are no shortcuts, special allowances or circumstances that will allow a full recovery unless all MB principals are adhered at all times.

NB x

Thanks for the update NB. So very happy for you.