schtoop, I think you misunderstand the reason for exposing your WWs A. It is not intended to get revenge, as you seem to think. And it is 100% necessary. Exposure is used to KILL the A. Isn't that what you want? You sound like a nice guy - but you need to draw the line at being nice and allowing your WWs A to continue.

Look: she has demonstrated that she is capable of having an A. She has demonstrated that she doesn't want to end the A (by refusing to write the NC letter.) She has demonstrated that she will lie to you and sneak behind your back to contact OM. Why are you still hedging at 90%?

My FWH didn't want to hurt OWs feelings, wished he could go back in time and make different choices, didn't know how to end the A, all that. You know what ended it? EXPOSURE. And do you know what his says these days, when we talk about it? He thanks God the OWH exposed them to their employer. How's that, schtoop? My H almost lost his job and has to live daily with the humiliating knowledge that his wife and employer got to see all the physical notes, emails, etc, with him declaring his undying love, that they were going to run off into the sunset together, he was her prince and she was his princess . How embarrassing, yes? And he's still thankful OWH did it.

To borrow the phrase that's used here a lot: Your marriage can withstand your WW's anger. What it cannot withstand is an affair.

Some of us may sound a little militant at times - it's not intended to be a bullying tactic, so don't be confused about that. We're the survivors. We've lived it. We're passionate in our responses because we know what works. Dr. H has not survived an A, so he's a little more neutral and can report what works in a less impassioned way.

schtoop,

It is my opinion that Dr. Harley is pretty matter-of-fact in his writings...Here a few examples:

Dr. Harley on telling children:


Link~~~> HERE



Link~~~> HERE


Link~~~> HERE


Link~~~> HERE

Hope this helps...

Mrs. W

**edit**

Schtoop, on this exposure thing, since the "militant" (and very sage, I might add) BSs here have only gotten you to about 90%, lemme see if a former, recent wayward can get you to jump:

I knew my affair was wrong. When I was deep in it, I'd spend commute-time on the subway, alone, each morning & evening, wondering what the heck I'd gotten myself into, and telling myself I needed to quit, this isn't who I am, this isn't the kind of man I want to be, etc. Once, I even tried to break it off, before it went all the way to a physical affair, but I didn't make it stick. I'd get to the office and there'd be a sweet voice-mail for me from OW, an endearment, a compliment, a suggestion that we talk or meet, and all that stuff was meeting emotional needs of mine, and I was back to being about the most spineless, useless excuse for a man you'd ever have wanted to meet. I rationalized, subconsciously and consciously. As long as it was a secret, then I could have my cake & eat it too, and there'd be no adverse blowback for me. And so I let it go on. As fantasy-worlds go, it hadn't gotten to the point of being intolerable for me.

The tipping-point that made it intolerable for me was that I got partially exposed when my OW's husband (who'd been suspicious of her on account of her behavior during her affair with me & also a previous affair she'd been having with another guy before me) finally snooped on her and found her out. Once OW told me this, then I knew I was in a position where my affair could no longer coexist with my marriage (because it was inevitable that my wife would learn about it from OW's husband if I didn't confess first). And I knew my wife wouldn't tolerate my affair. So only then did I muster the minimal decency needed for me to end it, and confess to my wife, and start the road back. Today I look back on that exposure by OW's husband as one of the weirdest, best gifts God has ever dropped on my head.

Schtoop, people who have affairs are already aliens. Exposure isn't a guarantee, but it gives you at least a better chance to reel them back into the real universe.

They'll pity you plenty if your marriage falls apart because your wife continues or resumes the affair.

What do you think a divorce might do to their lives...?

Replace "understanding" with "strength" in this phrase.

Clinically-speaking, the purpose of exposure isn't revenge, it's to make continuation or resumption of an affair less palatable to an affairee. Many folks apparently don't appreciate that, and so it might look like "revenge" to them. That's because they don't understand the science. So? Why should you care what they think?

Meeting her needs won't work as well if she's still in an affair, because her affair-partner will be meeting her needs, and for you, it'll be like trying to pour water into a glass that's already pretty-full: You might get some of your own water into the glass, but a lot of what you pour will likey be spilled.

Take some time to mull it over. You're hoping the next contact won't come. I understand you want to be able to say you tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure that's how my OW's husband felt about her at one point, too. Unfortunately, though, affairs have patterns, and they're not nice ones. Here's hoping your wife's bucks the trend, but as is often said around here, "hope" isn't a plan.

Link to UVA's War room ...which was written to another BH.


READ THIS LINK

which is found on my Notable Posts thread...

Good post, Gloveoil, and I am listening. Same to Pepper and Melody.

Like I said, I'm 90% convinced and that number is growing.

Mrs. Wondering - you don't have to convince me to tell the kids, they will be high on the list of who to tell.

Marital bliss, thanks for sharing your experience.

SuzieQ and Melody - I am not holding exposure over her head like blackmail. My exact words to here were that

"...convetional wisdom says that I should let people around us know, including the kids. I have not done that, yet."

That was the only time I've mentioned it. I now know it was the wrong thing to do, but I don't think she views it as threat and hasn't made any counter moves.

One more question, since I'm probably not making the best decisions right now.

All I know about the OM is his cell number, an address, a home phone, and that he is likely divorced.

I really have a growing urge to contact my wife's friend, one who she was going out drinking with when she met and had liasons with the OM. She may be able to give some insights into my wife's behavior and tell me something more about the OM. I think this woman would be frank with me, but there is also a lot of risk with going to her since she is my wife's friend.

Is it a totally absurd idea?

I dunno. I'd say that's a real crap shoot. Most GFs will be loyal to their buddy.

schtoop,

I am very new at this. Just like you, I hesitated about exposure in the beginning. I now realize that not exposing at the right time caused me a lot of grief. By not exposing, I ended up enabling the A since my FWW didn't face the consequences of her horrible actions when it matter the most.

Read the threads on this forum and you'll find that many of us, BS, have hesitated in the beginning with exposure. But once we do it, we get to understand its value as we see the A die.

Now there's no doubt in my mind that exposure is the best weapon against the A. If you don't use it, your WW will have a lot of difficulty achieving NC. She's an addict - you can't reason with her. Take action against the source of her addiction.

Your best chance is to follow the excellent advice the vets around here are giving you. So start making a good exposure plan ASAP.

She's going to be mad as he11 when you expose. But by the time you get to your trip to PR you'll have a chance to make it up to her. BTW, try to leave the kids behind in that trip.

The best way to expose is to do it to reveal the A to everybody pretty much at the same time to cause a tsunami of reality in her fantasy world. Regarding your question about your WWs friend, I think there's too much risk of her warning your WW or the OM if you start asking questions. You may want to contact this friend as part of you expose to everybody. At that point you can evaluate if she's going to help or not.

Regarding the OM, can you hire a PI to do the investigative legwork for you? Try to get info about his workplace, relatives and confirmation about his marital status.

You'd also try to snoop as much as possible. Install flexispy on her phone, use a VAR and install a keylogger on her computer.

I also concur that you'd try phone counseling with the Harleys. I wasted a lot of precious time and money with local MC. With the MB approach you'll cut to the chase when it comes to the A.

I can see why you may get defensive about the style of the advice that has been offered. But you don't want to be second guessing a tried and proven method. You want to go into this fight with a plan and execute. There too much on the line to try to improvise. You may not realize it yet but you're getting advice from some of the best resources available when it comes to overcoming an A. There's a sense of urgency in the way the MB vets are trying to help you. The reason is that time is of the essence in these situations. You don't want the window of opportunity to recover to close.

This is the time to stand up for your marriage my friend. You want to focus. Again, your priority is to start making your exposure plan NOW. Why don't you post a list of when, who and how you're going to expose.

--ElCamino72

Uh oh, I'm starting to get a really bad feeling with a new development.

I promise that I'm not some troll and I'm not a drama queen either that's just looking for attention. I am hurt, broken, and confused right now.

I have to find out more about the OM.

I looked over the last six months of her cell phone logs, and something just isn't adding up. Most of the contact occurs 1) of course when she's out with her "friends", or 2) around 6:00 when she usually goes to the gym or some other meeting/social outing. What's weird is that the phone conversations are never more than 1 or 2 minutes long. Lots of instances where it seems one phones the other, then the call is returned a minute or two later. Seems very inconsistent with an emotional affair, where I would expect lengthy conversations. There are also calls to her girlfriend (the enabler) interspersed at or near the time she calls the OM.

Which brings me to the OM. I did a reverse cell phone search to get a name, then a people search to get addresses and other info. The results were not very thorough, other than returning three of the last addresses. I went by what looked to be the latest address, and it was basically in run down quadraplex in a seedy part of town. I have no way of knowing how much, if any, of the returned info is accurate.

Then to my wife's behavior. She pretty much sleeps late whenever she can, then still has to nap a couple hours in the afternoon. She's had thyroid issues and takes medication for several years now and she blames the fatigue on her thyroid. But, she has become less and less interested in family activities.

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, my next step (besides finding out more about the OM) is to go over our bank records carefully. I haven't been paying attention closely, but I haven't seen any unexplained withdrawals or money drain. I will look more carefully now.

Am I being paranoid, or is there something larger to worry about than the affair?

schtoop,

Snoop and make sure OM is divorced. The OM in my situation convinced everyone he worked with -- and me in conversations we'd had before the A commenced -- that he was D'd.

After D-Day, I finally decided to make sure that it was true -- and it turned out he was still married. I talked to his wife, and the info she gave me put the final kibosh on things, and ended all WD feeling from my then-WW when she found out that he'd been gaslighting by describing her as a bunny-boiler.

Make sure, snoop, do research. Then expose.

I APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE HERE, ESPECIALLY MELODY.

I hope you can still help me.

This is it, no more excuses, no more putting it off. Today is E-DAY (exposure)!

We are here at 9 days after D-day, so I hope I didn't waste too much time in making this move.

My wife went to the "gym" last night for two hours. This morning I did some snooping while she was in the shower and found a Pre-pay (disposable) cell phone. I didn't have time to go through her calls, but at this point I don't need to.

The plan: I'm going to pick the kids (boys ages 9 and 5)up from school and drive straight to her parents house which is about an hour away. I will speak to her parents first with the kids in another room, then I will bring them in and tell them in front of her parents. That way I will have someone to confirm that I didn't tell them "lies" or disparage their mother unfairly. Her parents are the kingpin in this exposure and I want to do it face-to-face. Then I will call her sister in another town and let her know and ask for her support.

Next on the list will be my 85 year old mother who also lives two hours away. Wish I could tell her face-to-face, but a phone call will have to suffice. I think I will leave it up to here to tell my brothers and sisters right now. My brother is divorced, but I don't think it was because of an affair. I will have lengthy conversations with him soon, but he generally doesn't offer very good advice in these situations.

When I get home I will tell her friends who live on our street.

Then I have identified 3-4 girl friends of hers that do not know and could be of some help.

Her best friend at church has recently moved away, so I don't know how to crack that nut quite yet.

Another vital person I want to talk to is her drinking buddy (single) and enabler, one of the few who know about the A. I know that she will be firmly on my wife's side and that everything I say will go right back to my wife, but I'm hoping I can squeeze out a little more info on the OM.

Pray for me, this will be one of the hardest days of my life (along with D-day).

schtoop, it sounds like a good plan. When you speak to these folks, just give them facts and ask for their support. Ask them to use their influence to persuade your wife to end her affair.

Did you get any more information about the OM? Can you try calling his house intermittedly to see if a woman answers?

DOES HE HAVE A FACEBOOK ACCOUNT?

p.s. pastors can sometimes be a great asset in these situations.

Schtoop,

Just realize that it is going to get worse before it gets better. The fallout from exposure usually lasts at least two weeks and consists of a ton of verbal abuse. It's all meant to hurt you as much as possible and punish you for ruining her affair. She'll stay stuff like, "I was going to stay married until you did this. Now I'm going to divorce you. You had no right to tell the kids. I hate you. I'm going to take the kids from you." Blah, blah, blah. Just because she says these things in the heat of the moment doesn't make them true. Most likely they are threats that will never happen, but she wants to scare you into taking back control. It's best at this time just to lay low and walk away from any argument for two weeks. Schedule lots of activities with the kids and just invite her along. If she doesn't want to go, leave her to stew at home. Eventually she'll calm back down and things will return to the way before exposure - except that her affair will be forever damaged.

I'm just letting you know what to expect so you can brace for it.

We're behind you 100%. You are in my thoughts.

schtoop, Jim is correct. She will be furious when you expose her and will make all manner of threats. Don't let it bother you a bit because it will blow over. Just don't allow her to bait you into a fight and don't bother trying to reason with her.

I would also strongly suggest paying a visit to the OM. Steve Harley has recommended doing this and we have had good results. The key question is to ask the OM what his intentions are for your wife and to let him know that there is no future for him with your wife. He would be eternally hated by your children and your inlaws. If you live in a fault state, I would also tell him that he would hauled into court to testify under oath about his adultery in any legal action.

The idea is to create as much conflict as possible in the affair.

Thanks, jmwc95. I know it will be hell.

When I was fighting it yesterday another poster asked why I was so scared of exposure? You pretty much summed up why.

Melody - thanks for not giving up on me.

The ball is rolling. I have a lunch meeting with her old boss and friend in just a little bit. She got laid off in mid-December and her story is that it was simply due to the slow economy and not enough work. I am going to get the real story from him in just a bit, as I now doubt anything she tells me.

Another twist, one of her best friends and a key enabler in this affair is the receptionist at the old job. I've told you how her phone conversations with the OM are always brief and followed by a phone call to this friend. I don't know if she's just sharing sordid details, of if there is something more going on?

Maybe her old boss can shed some light on the situation.

FYI - she has found a new good job and started last week.

Oh yeah...

I will try to make a call to the OM. However, I know very little about him and what I do know seems very sketchy. I have his cell number and a name that sounds maybe eastern European. The addresses that a people search revealed were low-rent in bad sides of town. People search also revealed a home phone number that I have tried a dozen times, but all I get is an answer machine with automated voice.

Maybe I can find out more from her friends now that I am exposing.

The ball is in motion.

Had an encouraging lunch meeting with her old boss who is/was a family friend. He said that her job performance hadn't really suffered, but he noticed the same anti-social behavior. He was getting the same treatment at work that I got at home (her withdrawing, building walls, blaming him for her problems, argumentativeness, etc.).
He was very supportive and may be someone I can lean on a little.

Next up, trip to her parents house with the kids. Have already called them and let them know that we need to talk, so they are expecting me. Agreed not to tell my wife, as I am sure they've noticed the same changes.