schtoop, now it will be important to tell your wife AFTERWARDS that they know. You understand that, right? Otherwise it is not exposure. She should know at the end of today that everyone knows. Hopefully, her parents will agree to have a talk with her. We have had many affairs here that were killed dead by parents either talking to their child and even calling up the OP.

Oh yeah, I'm on board with that.

I told her mom not tell her that I had called with such a serious tone. After we meet, I want her mom to have a heart to heart with my wife. That is the whole purpose.

One complicating factor, my wife will be driving back from a day work trip (alone) when the stuff hits the fan. I may ask her mom not to confront until tomorrow, as I don't want my wife getting all emotional while she's doing 80 mph on the freeway.

Ditto
My thoughts and prayers as well.

We are all pulling for you, schtoop.

Just checking in today, very tired from little sleep last night and still pulling the shrapnel from the "exposure" out of my rear.

I did not get to everyone on the list, but I got to enough to accomplish the purpose. Some of the reactions:

Her parents - they knew something was wrong between us, especially since D-day. Very supportive and of course want what's best for the grandkids. Also disapproved of all the going out to bars.

Her previous boss/family friend - We had a very nice lunch and he was supportive as well. Gave some insight into her demeanor at the workplace. However, this turned out to be the one that made my wife go nuclear. I knew there was some tension between them at the workplace, but she was incensed that I shared her personal information with this particular person. She claims that he is a backstabber and will use the information or hold it over her head for years to come. This was the real Lovebuster (I know, you can't think of it that way when exposing a wayward).

Her single friend and drinking partner - More supportive than I thought she'd be. Gave a little insight on my wife's relationship with the OM and also said she tried to discourage it.

The OM - This was the big surprise. Called his cell phone and after an awkward exchange he realized who I was and how much I knew. From then he was fairly forthcoming. When I asked him to cut things off with her he said "you've got it" and that he's done with her. Said he's been through it before (divorced) and knows where I'm coming from. Claimed she really wasn't his "type" and was too old, and that she's been pestering him a lot lately with all the phone calls.

Also shared an account of their last meeting at the bar (D-Day -1). I don't know whether they planned to meet there or if my wife just knew where he'd be, but he was trying to blow her off and made her cry. Her single friend then spent a good amount of time "up his azz" as he describes it. Accounts from the friend and even my wife tend to verify parts of the story.

Anyway, my call must have worked because he immediately called her back and broke things off. I'm sure this is also a big reason she went postal on me.

Did not call her sister - her parents are visiting this weekend and I'm sure the situation will be discussed.

Did not call my mom - She's 85 years old and its a conversation best had in person. Wife will not contact her or vice versa, so there is no rush here.

Did not tell the kids - My inlaws talked me out of it. Made a good point that if they need to know, we should tell them together. Otherwise, you risk turning them against one or the other of the parents.

Will post more on the wife's reaction in a little bit.

Great job on calling the OM!! It sounds like he was tired of the affair already and doesn't want the trouble, so if there is anymore contact, I would call him up again.

Does she know her parents have been told? Will they speak to her about the affair?

Not telling the kids is a huge mistake. This needs to be done NOW while she is already angry so you can get these exposures over with. Exposures should be done at the same time so you are dealing with ONE BIG explosion rather than several weak ones dribbled out over time.

I understand what your inlaws are getting at, but they don't understand the mentality of a wayward and don't understand what they are dealing with. [they don't know how to save marriages and are not psychologists either] Telling them "together" will greatly hamper your ability to tell the kids the truth [your wife will want to spin it and lie to them] and will only result in a family fight in front of the kids. None of that is in their best interest. It only makes an already hard situation much harder.

Was the solution to give them FALSE explanations about the source of the trouble in their family?

Rather, if they know the source of the problem in their family and are given moral guidance, they can better deal with the issues. And yes, the kids might very well turn against their mother. But that would be because of HER AFFAIR. Not because you told them. Some kids know right from wrong and may turn against a parent when they engage in wrong doing. That is a result of the AFFAIR and not a consequence that you should protect your WW from. Your wife has harmed your kids terribly with her affair and she will have to make it up to them.

Exposing to kids is a powerful motivator for a WW to stop her affair. When a WS has to face her children who know about her sleazy behavior, she will be much more inclined to end the affair. She has almost destroyed their family over her sleazy affair so being put in the position of having to explain to them is very therapeutic and will make her think twice before she does this again.

Lastly, if there are any more exposures to be done, I would get them done TODAY. Get them DONE so you can move on from this phase and start putting the pieces of your marriage back together. Don't drag this out, schtoop.

You did a great job yesterday, schtoop!! Please keep up the fire while you have them on the ropes!

Here is the strategy I would use for the next couple of days.

1. get your exposures done with TODAY: kids, sister in law, pastor and anyone else who is close to your WW

2. allow things to die down for a couple of days - don't react to your wife's fury over exposure

3. when things calm by this weekend, sit her down and tell her you love her and that you want to have a happy, romantic marriage. Tell her you are willing to stay and work on the marriage if she will commit to this plan. [the plan I describe is outlined in Surviving an Affair]

I think the PR trip is a great opportunity for you to re-bond with her. Can you leave the kids at home for that?

p.s. agree that you don't have to tell your own mother right now. That can wait.

I hear you on finishing the exposure today.

I cannot tell the kids at this point, its just too big of a risk, risk with inlaws, risk the kids themselves, huge risk with my wife.

I told her last night that I had planned on telling them, but her parents talked me out of it and I agreed not to do it alone. I asked her if we should do it now, and she suggested waiting until a more definite conclusion.

I've come to realize that one of the biggest stumbling blocks in our marriage is the issue of control. She is a control freak and resists mightily anytime she feels I am trying to "take over". The issue with the telling the kids is one battle I'm going to have to compromise on so as to not be deemed "controlling". She is already resisting MB because "I (schtoop) have it all figured out".

During the rest of the battle I will have to walk a very careful line between being proactive and involved, without crossing over into "controlling."

Can't leave the kids at home for PR, they have been told for weeks they are going and would be crushed. I know they have to sense that something is up with the two of us, but we've tried to keep it life as usual. There have been no questions or concerns showed by the kids, yet.

When we sit down with a counselor, I will get a second opinion on telling the kids. I know that everything you've been preaching here on MB is tried and true, and that other counselors may rely on flawed techniques that aren't as effective, and that the exposure needs to be done all at once, but this issue is just too touchy right now not to get another opinion on.

schtoop, your biggest risk is to NOT tell them. There is absolutely no benefit to lying to children. There is no "counselor" that can support the view that it is ok to lie to children. That is a stupid opinion that cannot be supported.

Any counselor who tells you it is ok to lie to children does not know what they are talking about. When kids are given false explanations about family turmoil, it teaches them dishonesty and causes moral confusion. It helps no one. There is absolutely no benefit to anything or anyone - OTHER THAN THE AFFAIR - in not telling them.

Things are "touchy" becuase your wife is angry that you interfered with her affair. You can't make your PLANS around her anger. That is a losing proposition. You will lose if you allow your WW's anger to be the deciding factor in your game plan. That is like handing the game plan over to a terrorist whose goal is to drive you into the Red Sea!

Keep in mind, that Dr Harley is not just some stooge on the internet. He is a world reknowned, credentialed, clinical psychologist who has specialized in putting marriages and families back together for 35 years. He is one of the leading experts on infidelity in this country. And the reason he has this stature is because he is successful where others ARE NOT.

If I were in your shoes, I would tell your wife tonight that you have changed your mind about telling the kids and will tell them now. She can go with you or not, it is her choice.


You are negotiating with a TERRORIST at your kids expense. EVERY WW screams that her husband is being "controlling" when he tries to interfere with her affair. That is the RULE, not the exception. If you allow that weak objection to stop you from doing what needs to be done to bust up this affair and protect your family, you won't have a marriage before too long.

"you are so controlling!" "you know it all!!" = FOGBABBLE

You cannot negotiate with a terrorist whose goal is to drive your family and your marriage into the RED SEA. Do you understand, schtoop?

I am sorry to be harsh with you, but you are making strategic mistakes for the SOLE PURPOSE of appeasing a TERRORIST. It is ok to try and appease her, but not at the expense of your children and your marriage. SHE GETS NO SAY IN THE PLAN TO KILL HER AFFAIR!

She is a WAYWARD wife who practices independent behavior and does not want you to defend yourself and your kids from her thoughtless, ABUSIVE, cruel behavior. She wants you to STOP interfering with her destructive behavior and stop protecting yourself.

I was the same way. When I was a drunk driver back in the 80's I used to accuse my husband of trying to "control" me when he tried to wrest the keys from my hand.

So who was the BAD GUY in that situation, schtoop? Me for trying to go drunk driving or my husband for trying to "control" me?

I agree with Mel. The kids should be told by you. Telling her boss was another one of the consequences to her EA.

Confirm that you are standing up for your marriage. Then change the subject.

On to the events of last night...,

My wife learned of the exposure on her way home from a work trip three hours away. The OM called her (and by all signs ended it) and she immediately called me and asked who I spoke with tonight. I calmly told her who all I talked to and what was said.

Like I said, she only went ballistic upon hearing I contacted her old boss who she apparently hates now.

From then she hung up on me and didn't return any of my calls. When she got home, she stormed straight back to the bedroom without a word and closed the door. I simply said that we have to talk sometime.

Fast forward to 3:00 a.m. and I'm awakened by my wife grabbing some papers and such from the computer work desk and taking them back to the bedroom. I give it a couple minutes before going in and asking what she is doing. She tells me she is going over the budget and seeing how we can split the income/expenses for me (schtoop) to move out. I then politely informed her that I will not be moving out. To that she replies that the kids are "her boys". Again, I calmly and politely tell her that she is free to stay here and I would like for her to so we can work on our marriage, but that I am NOT going anywhere.

I may have broken through a little at that point and we talked for the next two hours. I'll list some highlights, besides the usual "I fell out of love years ago," and "I don't think I can love you again.", and "How miserable she is when I'm around, how I stifle her."

1) Said she was working to end the affair on her own terms and come to a closure. I pointed out the broken NC and new cell phone and said that we can't go forward with this going on.

2) She also said that by me ending it for her, she would miss him all the more. I pointed out that's the very reason that 1) would have never worked.

3) That she was nearly ready to get on board with working on the marriage until I exposed, especially to the old boss. Now she doesn't think she wants to try. I again calmly said that she had given me neither words nor actions that pointed to this willingness.

4) Accused me of being "contolling" with the demands of NC and the other proactive steps I've been taking. I responded that our situation needed immediate action and that I couldn't wait for her to "decide" what she wants to do.

5) Ended the night with my wife putting away the financial stuff and showering for work. I got a very weak agreement to go to a counselor together if I set it up, but she doesn't think it will do much good.

6) Said she was glad it's out in the open now so she doesn't have to keep living the charade of our marriage andt hat she may tell the whole neighborhood tomorrow. I replied that was good, the whole purpose of bringing it out, and that the more who know just means more friends we can lean on for support.

I'll add more highlights as I think of them.

schtoop, you handled this very well! I can see you understand that this is all fogbabble. It is all meaningless babble that is no more relevant than the mumblings of a falling down drunk.

Everything she said here is CLASSIC fogbabble that we hear on the forum every day when a BS interferes with his WS' affair. The trick is to not allow her to bait you into a fight or take any of her babble seriously and it sounds like you did an excellent job of doing that.

schtoop, tell the kids, tell the kids, tell the kids, friend! They need to know FROM YOU before they hear it elsewhere. If you don't tell them the truth, she will tell them lies....about you probably. They know something is wrong and need to know the truth. This will burst her little fantasy much sooner when she has to explain why she was willing to destroy their family over..........nothing.

Well, then help her with her desire to have the neighbors know. Perhaps a sign in the front yard or a billboard will please her.
Pretty standard responses from her. Do your kids know?

Good job on exposing. I'm glad that OM seems to be backing off. That's going to improve your chances. Stay guarded though.

I also held off exposure to my DDs because I feared they wouldn't understand. My DDs are 5 and 6. Just as you say, I could tell that my kids knew something was up. You shouldn't underestimate their ability to sense that your marriage is in trouble. Make no mistake, they ARE aware that their protected environment is in danger. The thing is that they tend to think that it's their fault. You don't want that.

I made the terrible mistake of lying to my DDs about our situation. With your WW in withdrawal there is going to be conflict and they may witness some of it. When my DDs asked what was going on, I'd blow them off by just saying that mom and dad were working some problems out. That felt really bad. You don't want to teach your kids to pretend there's nothing happening on the face of adversity. As a result, my DDs started acting up like never before and there's no doubt that they were severely affected by the confusion of not knowing what was really going on.

You have the risk of being forced to expose under a situation out of your control. I had to tell them one day when my WW was acting a little crazy. I wasn't on my best behavior that day either. It was horrible. So I do suggest you expose to them under your terms in a controlled fashion. Consider that you may want to get the exposure phase over with ASAP so you can move on.

I understand why you want a second opinion about exposure to your kids. I've been there myself. Initially, it may go against our instincts as parents. If you want a second opinion I suggest you do counseling with a MB coach and a regular MC to see the difference.

I spent 3 months with a local MC. The MC was well intentioned but she didn't know what she was doing. The MC tried to go into our pasts/childhood when our problem at hand was the present A. There were many sessions together that further alienated my WW. I was wrongfully enjoying when the MC would go after my WW in my presence but it wasn't accomplishing my goals of recovering my marriage. My WW ended up giving up that MC. I attended the MB weekend and Dr. Harley said that whenever a MC does sessions with both spouses in the same room it means that they don't know what their doing. When he said that, my wife looked at me in approval.

When I first came to this forum a few months ago I was recommended by MelodyLane to coach with the Harleys. At the time I gave her several excuses why it wouldn't work for me. I still did it and I am extremely glad that I made the decision. Steve Harley is a professional and he's helped us tremendously with our situation. Highly recommended.

Stay strong and keep fighting to regain your marriage.

Best wishes

--ElCamino72

You need to tell the kids. You never should of given a heads up about doing so.

Bingo! Thanks for this post, El Camino, you said it much better than me. The Harleys NEVER counsel couples in crisis together, because it just causes more problems and they leave angrier than when they went in.

Traditional marriage counselors don't have the slightest idea what they are doing, which is evidenced by an 84% failure rate. If a doctor had an 84% failure rate, I sure wouldn't go to him for medical care. I don't know why a profession with such a dismal rate is trusted with such an immensely important thing: OUR MARRIAGES. That is like playing chicken with one of the most treasured and valued things in our lives.

ITA. With all due respect to your in-laws, they are misguided and don't know what they're talking about. They are trying to protect your kids from being hurt, and probably are trying to salvage the kids' thoughts about your WW. Don't let them try to take the reins. You're doing great so far. Don't drop the ball now.

Kids know that they are not capable of caring for themselves in this big world. They are sensitive to the environment that is supposed to be protecting them. They know something is wrong, schtoop. You won't be shocking them with this.

Don't let your WW spin this to them. Trust me, she will.