Wise counsel Fred. Thanks v much.

Oh boy, bit of a situation here.

Need to keep my head straight, and welcome your advice. WW has approached me about taking the kids to the ILs without me for a long weekend leaving tonight or tmrw AM. I have responded calmly that I think we need to be in agreement on this, and that I need to think about it.

She is having a breakdown, and is claiming she needs time away from me, with the kids.

My instincts are telling me that I should not go for this, but part of me sees it as a lovebuster. The ILs is a very safe environment in terms of further WW behaviour.

?

Are the ILs in the know? What's their position on WW and the A? If she takes the kids there, will they do what they can to prevent her from contacting OM?

Can you call the ILs and tell them of your concern? If they give you their assurance that they will provide a safe, loving place for your kids, would that help?

The ILs are in the know. They would not support OM contact. Both OM are out of the picture in a serious way.

They are concerned for WW.

I could call them, but I am not sure what concerns I would express that would be reasonable, but I might come up with some.

I can count on them providing a safe loving place for the kids, I have a pretty strong relationship with them.

I wish I could be a terse as PepperBand. But I can't, so harken to my signature line...

Given your responses, the only question I have is to your comment

I am not sure what concerns I would express that would be reasonable

What ARE your concerns. And why would they seem unreasonable to the ILs?

You are FIGHTING FOR YOUR MARRIAGE, mfoss. This is not the time to be coy or creative. If you have concerns (and you do or you wouldn't have asked here), let them know.

It sounds like it might be a break she needs. IF THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY OF HER 'RELAPSING' INTO AFFAIR MODE.

She could be kidnapping them for all you know, I would not let her go anywhere alone, much less with the kids.

Offer to call the ILs and have them come visit, see how she reacts to that.

When I was referring to concerns I might have, I was thinking that you all might point some out to me that I had not considered. Often, my instincts are wrong, and I am enlightened after posting.

When I mentioned my unreasonable concerns, they are all based on paranoia.

I have no OM contact concerns. I have no kid safety / comfort concerns.

I think this break might be good for her, although to be honest, I have more modest expectations. But if I can win some points by supporting it, and you all do not think I am crazy for doing it, I can be fine with it!

When you allow W to go somewhere alone you risk her will weakening or contact.

These are not unreasonable concerns.

I know the OM (particularly the most recent one) have taken strong active steps to let her know they want NOTHING to do with her, so I am less concerned about contact.

Plus, ILs is 2+ hours away, and WW is not independently mobile.

Having thought about it some more, my only slight concern is not being able to make active LBank deposits, but WW is in such a state it is quite hard to. And letting her go would be a big deposit. And I could also do lots around the house while they are away which would also set up further deposits.

She is obsessed with accusing me of being "controlling", so giving her this would help in some way with that perception.

If she is accusing you of being controlling, that only means she doesn't like the consequences of her actions.

That perception is skewed by her mindless fog!

I'm inclined to say let her go.

With this proviso: That you contact the ILs ahead of the trip, inform them of her plans, and ask them to notify you when she arrives.

I understand the concerns of her absconding with the kids, but you have to judge how real you think that threat may be.

To add to Fred's idea (which is great) I'd say ask the ILs to call her during the trip and then to call you, to be sure they're okay.

I mean, you don't want them to be in a wreck and you not know about it.

On an unrelated note, kick@$$ signature, Fred!

Thanks both.

I have offered to drive them all up, she is thinking about that (otherwise she will be taking a bus, she does not drive). I will be in touch with the kids and the ILs over the weekend.

I will go and look into that sig, it does not ring any bells!

She went up Saturday AM and came home today. I got up early and arranged to drive her to the bus station. DS11 stayed home with me, and DS8 went up North with her.

I have to be honest in that it was nice for me to have a break from the stress of having to PlanA with her around. I know it is important to have face time, but it was a good little break.

I know there was no OM contact.

One of the things I struggle with is balancing the position of not supporting her moving out etc, and being supportive and not demanding about reasonable requests. I feel I am getting better, but man is it hard!

I also have realized that I am often quite tense when she is around, as I am so concerned about doing the right things. This of course does not help me come across as relaxed, supportive, and a good husband! Hopefully awareness is the first step...

She is often angry or tense herself these days, and I struggle to engage her positively when she is in this mindset. Should I say, "is there something wrong?", or should I try and engage her with a positive distraction?

Suggestions welcomed!

Hi mfoss, I think you're doing great! More power to ya!

I know this may be non-MB advice, so let the come.

If you're both tip-toeing around each other, maybe a little honesty covered in kindness would be appropriate.

By that, I mean maybe it might not be a bad idea for one of you (guess which one?) might just say, "You know, we both seem to be a little on edge. Can we just sit down and talk? Not to get deep and serious, but just some light chat? Maybe like we used to do?" (This is assuming that you actually did this). Then do just that. Bring up little shared memories and experiences (nothing too emotional or sentimental). "Hey, remember that time when we both got double-scoop ice cream cones and mine fell all over my shoes as we were leaving the ice cream store?" That kind of stuff.

I say this because I sense the two of you are inadvertently building walls between each other. Probably as a defensive measure. But these walls aren't good for the prospect of recovery. So, rather than charge the embattlements with siege engines and trebuchets, a little light-heart erosion of these walls might be a better tactic.

Let me know what you think.

Hey Fred, that sounds like good advice. I often find myself at a loss for words around her due to anxiety, I need to prepare better so that I have good things to talk about. Any suggestions?

The first thing that comes to mind is to talk about things in the past -- avoid talking about the present. If you have photo albums or scrapbooks, pull a couple out, sit down and start going through them.

Get a jigsaw puzzle and both of you work on it together.

Try something different for dinner. Depending on where you are, what your food allergies might be, and what's available, try getting something unusual: Vietnamese pho. Afghani kabobs. Indian food. Choose together and share your choices. You can do this eat-in or carry-out, depending on what works best for you.

Whenever you feel the tension mounting, try something like the above to (a) take you out of the immediate tension, and (b) put some deposits into the LB$ at the same time.

Bit of an development that I could use some input on. I have been asking WW if she is giving up completely on our relationship, and if not, will she agree to not engage in new relationships with other men. She has generally avoided answering this question up to now. Yesterday she stated that there is still a chance for reconciliation, but that she can not agree to not engage with other men in the interim.

Obviously not a great answer, except as an example of extreme fogginess!

So, I feel I am at a bit of a crossroads in that while I know there are no other active OM right now, it seems she is intent on keeping that door open.

I am considering hitting Plan B, as I am not sure I want to deal with more OM.

It is also possible that she can't close that door right now, and that I can keep Plan A active, at least until there is another OM. She was quite shocked and went through a bit of a breakdown after my last exposure, so she is still getting back on her feet. Interestingly she has been a real homebody of late, and I have been banking some real LB deposits (I take such pleasure in shocking her with new positive habits and responses).

Plan A (and if so for how much longer), or Plan B?

If you're REALLY in Plan A, you should be avoiding such "relationship talks" with your F(?)WW at the moment, unless of course she starts them, in which case you should tread very carefully.