Thanks, El Camino.

I think the reality that we're going to do this (go to counseling) is finally setting in for my WW. Last night she finally asked who we were seeing that led to the big blow-up I described above.

Now, just this afternoon she emails me about the cost and if it's covered by our HMO. I responded with the cost, and said if we're not comfortable with this guy we can look for someone else under our HMO. I also wrote that I didn't want our HMO to limit us from seeing the best.

When I spoke on the phone, this couselor said that he likes to meet us together for the first session to get to know us a little, then the next two sessions we will be meeting individually. So at least he has the right approach there.

I hope he asks if we've been reading anything on our own so that I can bring up Marriage Builders. I don't want to appear as if it's something I'm forcing on my wife (the control issue again), and it will if I suggest it first.

Good morning, all.

I'm going to continue to post on this thread because it's kind of turned into a journal or log of my experiences and feelings since D-day and has been theraputic.

I realize that some of the "elders" here have stopped responding to me, likely because I haven't followed their advice to the letter. I'm OK with that, I just hope I can get a little support from some others on this board and their shared experiences.

That being said, yesterday was a good day and I'm trying my best not to read too much into it or get overly optimistic. But, there were several breakthroughs that may just be turning points.

We had our first meeting with a counselor yesterday and it went well. I think it is someone who can help us. The Marriage Builders plan is still important, but I think this guy can get us to a point that my wife will be receptive to MB. She is definitely not there yet.

When asked by the counselor why she was there, she did answer "to try and save the marriage". That was the first time I've heard her say that she would try. Of course, she also stated her reservations about ever falling back in love.

While this counselor is a strong Christian and was recommended by a man very involved in marriage recovery ministry at his church, he did not bring religion into our session at all. This is the right approach for us right now for details I won't get into and was one of my wifes big reservations about seeing this particular counselor.

Some other positive turns:

I am fairly certain that there has been no contact since I found her disposable cell phone, exposed, and called the OM. The call to the OM was what really ended it, I get the feeling more and more that she was starting to pester him and that he might have been pretty blunt and hurtful when he let her go.

I haven't seen a lot of phone calls to her girl friend, the one who was her conspirator in all of this and who she would always rush to call with sordid little details of her encounters or conversations with the OM.

She has been around the house much more and is making an effort to re-engage in our kid's lives.

I know the fog hasn't begun to lift quite yet, but I may have seen the faintest outline of the sun trying to peak through.

So now she may be getting to a place where plan "A" may start having an effect. Up until now, there her love bank's doors were shut tight and there was no way to make deposits. As you all know, it's extremely difficult to live a cheery plan A when you know it's doing no good. I will be far more motivated now to meet her EN's knowing that she has opened the door just a crack. Time will tell if that crack is real or if it was just an aberation.

We leave with the kids for Puerto Rico on Friday afternoon. This will be a great opportunity to "plan A" at full speed.

Quick question, and I hope someone can help me here.

What do I do about two girlfriends of my wife that 1) knew about and enabled the affair, and 2) Gets only her twisted side of the story and hears only what kind of schmuck I am and 3) Give her advice that is not supportive of our marriage.

I cannot "forbid" her from seeing or talking to these friends. Yet, I have read some emails back and forth and it makes my blood boil. I have already told my wife that one of the friends was "no friend of mine and no friend of our marriage".

My common sense tells me to hold firm in plan "A" and hope that she'll see who really has her and the family's best interest in mind, but these guys are undermining me big time.

NC w/ OM is the key. As long as that is in place and you are doing a good plan A, you wife will eventually want to recover the marriage. When she does, you can address these issues under the POJA. Patience, you'll get there.

Don't do anything about them right now. First, because there's no way you'll look like anything but a bad guy for 'interfering' in her friendships. Second, because you can't make her end those friendships. These two things alone are your stoppers.

Finally, the day will hopefully come when your WW's fog is gone and she looks back on her actions with shame and remorse. At that point she may elect to end those friendships on her own, because they remind her of a bad time.

If these friends are still around when she's completely on board with R, you can try to discuss ending the friendship as a POJA - as part of protecting your M by removing anyone who isn't pro-marriage. YOUR marriage.

I asked FWH to end a friendship with a guy who knew a little bit about the A. This guy had looked down the wrong end of an angry H's gun barrel before, himself. And he didn't counsel my H to end the A. That's all it took for me to determine that he wasn't a friend of our M, nor a friend of H's, really - the guy had personal experience on what it was like to have an angry BH coming after him. How could he not tell H to cut off the A??

Good advice from both of you!

Hey schtoop,

I am from PR. I'll be happy to help with any questions you may have about the island

Plan A at full speed is the right attitude. I'm sure it will be a good opportunity to deposit LUs. Hope you have a great trip here.

--ElCamino72

OK, I need help.

I'm sitting here in Puerto Rico and am in the worst spot yet.

I thought enough to bring Valentine's cards and a massage gift certificate from me and the kids for my wife, which we presented the morning of the 14th. Of course, she hadn't thought to reciprocate and hardly responded to my handwritten card and gift.

Then, I got ahold of her cell phone the next day only to find out she texted Valentines greetings to all her friends, including an electronic card to the OM. I couldn't find the exact text, but I did read another to her friend stating how happy she was that he responded and thanked her for the message.

I also saw evidence of more texts the next day to the OM. All this while we are on vacation with the kids, trying to reconnect, and I'm trying to plan "A" her. I swear, I feel like just dragging us all to the airport and cutting this trip short.

I don't know whether to continue the vacation like nothing happened, when to confront her about it, or to just sit tight and build up evidence now and when we get home.

We have individual meetings with a MC next week. Maybe I'll sit tight until I talk with him.

Needless to say, this trip has ceased being fun.

Any thoughts or advice?

OOpsie.

I think her cell accidentally fell in the river today !



Oh Nooooooooooo !

Remove the SIM card and let her try and figure out why her cell phone doesn't work. When you get back it's time for round 2 of exposure.

Dang you guys are smart.

Hi schtoop,

Really good advice here on how to handle the cell phone situation. Just state your truth and stay cool after it. Don't let her crazy actions sabotage your plan.

BTW, one great family activity here is snorkeling. Plus the added benefit of no cell phone signal. Oh BTW, cell phones tend to get wet and damaged on boat trips. Just make sure you don't leave it behind on the reefs

If you're near the west coast of the island (well everything is close by here) you can try:

Paradise Scuba and Snorkeling <- click here

They aren't a fancy/touristy outfit but you'll find them to be professional and they know the area very well. They'll teach the kids to do snorkeling in no time. Highly recommended (I am not affiliated to them but I am a regular customer).

Oh, sorry I didn't see you post yesterday. I've just enabled email messages from your thread to get any questions you may have ASAP.

Have a good one.

--ElCamino72

This is a good one.

Oh shoot honey, I hate how flaky cell phone communications can be on these third world islands. I guess we'll have to make do without communication with the civilized world for a little while. Well, that leave us with nothing else to do other than enjoy the beach and nice weather... What can I say?



--ElCamino72

Thanks, El Camino.

We've been here close to a week and have visited nearly all the island. Two days at El Conquistador, where we got in some snorkeling and of course their water park. We've seen the El Tonque rain forest.

The last two days I've had to work at the meeting that brought us here, but the wife and kids went exploring to the caverns, the giant radio telescope, Mayaquez zoo, and Cabo Roho. We're now at La Parguera, where there is great snorkeling and where we took a boat ride to the bioluminescent bay. Has been a great trip other than the Valentine's day episode.

Found out that our cell plan doesn't cover PR, so that has taken care of the texting traffic, for now.

You know what bothers me maybe more than the contact, it's the going straight to her girlfriends with the news and saying it makes her "so happy". Then the girlfriends encourage her even more stating that they are "so happy for her" and that she "deserves to be happy."

Ughh.

Hi schtoop,

I'm glad you're enjoying the trip. The V-Day incident is just confirmation that she's very foggy. If you're still at El Conquistador, they do have a kids club and nanny services. Try to get some time alone with WW to deposit LUs.

Your WW is probably looking for justification from people with similar boundary problems. Those girlfriends are not friends of your marriage or even your WW. They are supporting your WW's self-destructive behavior. There can be a lot of reasons for them to do that but it's definitely not WW's happiness.

Eventually you may need to block these girlfriends and make it uncomfortable for them to continue with their misguided encouragement. Do you know if any of these girlfriends have been involved in infidelity themselves?

--ElCamino72

New update - things continue to slide downhill.

So, it's our final night in Puerto Rico and I've been sitting on the fact that I knew about her Valentine's message and other contacts with the OM for three days now. We have a really nice dinner for a change and follow that up with an open talk on our balcony afterwards.

It was one of the first times that we spoke openly and honestly (I thought) about our relationship and where we were at without it turning into the blame game. I took this moment of openess to let her know I knew about the Valentine's day contact and other contacts. We were able to discuss it without losing our tempers or other love busters. She claimed that she sent out a mass Valentine's text and he "happened" to be on the list (BS). She also talked about needing closure on her terms and how he is more a friend than a physical partner.

It was then that I told her that there were three possible paths for our marriage:

1) Both of us try our best and try to recover the marriage, and ending all contact,
2) Go ahead and end it (our M) if things are irreparable,
3) Proceed in limbo without her really trying and the OM hanging in the wings.

I told her that I was OK with 1) or 2), but that I could not nor would not live by number 3. I repeated it to make sure she knew where I stood. She said she understood. We ended the conversation with a little more general talk about where we were at and I actually felt better than I had in days with knowledge of the contact eating me up inside.

Now fast foward to yesterday back at home. In the morning I check the wireless phone logs on the internet and find a flury of texts back and forth both the day before our "talk" in PR and on the day afterwards. At the same time, she had also been checking our internet history to see if I had been checking on her. She knew the contacts would show up in the log and that I would find them.

Anyway, I confronted her about it and this was not such a pleasant conversation. I let her know how deeply it hurts evertime I find out about contact and how she had RUINED the family trip for me (the truth). Again, more babble about the friendship and how she needs closure. I told her that closure=ending it, not stringing things along. I also let her know that you don't destroy families and ruin family vacations for "just a friend". The conversation ended with her admitting that she hasn't yet tried to recover and doesn't know if she wants to. We ended the conversation agreeing to see the MC this week (we each have a solo session) and then assess where things are.

So that was my update, now for a few questions.

I think I can still go ahead with plan A, but it's so hard to be loving and caring when I'm repeatedly stabbed in the gut everytime I see new contact. How long do I endure this?

I am starting to think ahead about plan B. My biggest question, how would I get her to move out of our house? I'm 90% certain she would flatly refuse, just as I'm 100% certain that I would not.