I used to go to TMZ and Perez Hilton just for material to talk to my WW about because she likes to follow that garbage. I acted like I was interested and brought up stuff like, "OMG, did you hear what Brangelina did today?" I was gagging inside, but it got her talking.

Plan A - The Carrot

Meet her ENs as much as she allows.
Avoid ALL Love Busters

Do NOT try to educate her, convince her she is wrong or correct her thinking.

Plan A - The Stick

Make continuing an affair or starting a new one less attractive by any means available to you.

Do NOT finance anything related to divorce, an affair or "finding myself."
Do NOT allow actions that hurt you to continue unabated.
Make contact with OM or enjoying a "single" lifestyle as difficult as possible through whatever means available.

Make family plans or plans with friends that require her presence. If she doesn't show up, it must be HER responsibility to explain why she wasn't there.

No matter WHAT her top ENs appear to be right now, strive to meet Affection (without being CLINGY) and Conversation (without talking about the affair or affairs in general and without making attempts to educate her, change her thinking, convince her, coerce her or threaten her.

Summary:

Meet ENs, especially Conversation and Affection as much as possible.
Avoid all love busters.

Have NO expectations as to how she might react as it will your unmet expectations that do your love for her the most harm.

Make time with you as pleasant, rewarding and enjoyable as possible while making any contact with OM or anyone who is in support of the affair as difficult as can be attained. She doesn't need to know you are doing this, JUST DO IT!

Single word mantra to be repeated any time she brings up divorce, separation or finding herself: Family

I am fighting for our family.
I am struggling to save our family.
I want to preserve our family.
I want to avoid hurting our family.

Because I LOVE OUR FAMILY.

Mark

I think that the most essential part of meeting ENs is sincerety. As a woman, Jim, I have to tell you that if my DH even now started a conversation with tidbits from American Idol or asking me about Christian music bands, I would be question his motives. He will politely listen to me when I talk about them, he will watch or listen with me. He will even go to an occasional concert but my advice would be to not try opening chat with something you consider "garbage." JMHO

This is all so hard, but I will do the best I can. You know it seems when I'm actually not paying attention to her thats when she is the nicest and comes to me the most. Right now she knows no matter what happens i am there for her to fall back on. I am just going to do my own thing, and go out and have fun, but I will still be doing my best to meet her top EN's.
Affection is the hardest one to meet right now because she won't even let me hug her or anything right now. I need to focus on ME and do the things I enjoy and let her come to me right?
Thank you all for the advice again, I always look forward to coming on here and seeing something new from you all.

Jon,

Just an observation and you can tell me to buzz off if you want to, but doing your own thing is probably part of the reason you find yourself here.

If you go out and have fun and leave her alone, she will feel alone and abandoned and find something (read that someone) to fill the void. You don't have to leave her alone, just stop following her around nagging her about commitment, recovery, affairs, how hurt you are, how wrong she was...


Plan things that are fun, and try to get her to go along. Not a big deal like planning a romantic candlelight dinner for two at an exclusive place in the big city, just a walk in the park with the kids and ask her to join you. Interact with her the same way you would if things were better. Stop being a victim and start being her husband.

What I am trying to get across to you is that you need to stop telling her what a great guy you are, how much better you are than OM or any OM and you need to stop being a whiner and a wiener about clinging to her, smothering her and the kind of stuff that if your mother did it to you when you were 12 you'd have run away from home.

Rather begin to move forward as if things will improve between you if you apply MB principals to your marriage. Because if you apply this stuff, the marriage WILL improve.

Instead of pushing for commitment to stay, try to act as if she is staying, do nothing to assist her leaving and begin to SHOW her that staying is a better way to live than leaving.

When I was still trying to get my legs under me in the early days after D-day, I worked from a position of she was there until she left. Then I gave her every reason to stay while eliminating the reasons to leave. And yes things for me turned around pretty quickly, but that was in part because our marriage was NOT some awful and dysfunctional place but actually pretty good before OM came along. We had problems and neither of us was doing things the right way all the time, but we were in better shape than a lot of our friends before OM turned up.

One thing I did was to do all I could to make it hard for her to have contact with OM. I did this by having our granddaughter at the house, taking her for walks and inviting my wife along, planning stuff with her sister, accompanied her to go riding (we had a horse at the time) and just took up as much of her time as I could finagle.

She called OM on her company cell phone on the way to work or on the way home, but seldom got to talk for more than 5 minutes. She had email contact with him, but only at work and she did still have a job she had to get done with people coming into her office all day long. I quit going fishing on weekends for quite a while. I stopped doing so many activities at church to which she wasn't going and insisted we go as a couple rather than riding in separate cars. I would decide to take off from work an hour early and would be waiting for her when she got home. I fixed dinner and served it to her so that she had nothing to complain about having to work all day and then cook.

If she did almost ANYTHING for me, I sent her an email or left her a note thanking her for it specifically. I already knew I was a better man the OM who was a serial cheater and alcoholic. All he had that I didn't was a bigger house on more land. Beyond that, he was a jerk. I just did what I could to show her the difference.

Early on, within a short time of her agreeing to NC and while she was still in serious withdrawal, I came here and talked about doing the ENQ, LBQ etc while on a trip together, which was the first trip we had taken together in a couple of years and was to place where cell phones don't work, there are no phones in the cabins and the scenery is awesome. I got a reply telling me to lay off the hard work stuff for a while and stop trying to fix it all the time and just go have some fun with her.

Best advice I got from anyone in those days!

Thank you Mr W!

I began to live my life as if we were starting to date rather than trying to recover from an affair. I turned down overtime to spend time with her. I would get her to go to our vacation cabin with me and instead of going fishing at 4:30 am and staying out till after dark I'd get up at 6, fix breakfast, clean up after we were done and then ask her to take a walk. I'd take my camera along and take thousands of pictures (would have been dozens if I'd still been shooting film) and show her what I had shot, talked about the trees, the birds, the bugs, the smell of the wildflowers...ANYTHING other than the affair or infidelity.

Once she was on board with trying to figure out what had gone wrong that caused her to even consider OM, who by that point shocked and disgusted her as much as he did me, that was when we had talks that brought us both to tears and worked through the crap left from the affair.

My love bank was empty, I tell ya. It was in the red! Any time she even said anything including "Good morning" it caused an overdraft!

But then I got sick and she took care of me and THAT filled my love bank back up. If we had spent the previous 6 months fighting about the affair, talking about the affair, nagging each other about the affair or trying to change each other instead of looking at ourselves, she'd have been gone and I would have had to pay someone to take care of me.

If I tell you to put your hand out in front of your chest and then begin to push against it, what do you think you would do?

I can tell you what you would do...

You would push back and resist my pushing. The harder I pushed the harder you would push back and soon we'd be locked in a battle of wills and strength until one of us gave up or overcame the other.

Stop pushing and start leading...

If she trusts you to not start pushing any more, she will follow.

Mark

Oh, and as far as affection goes...

A note sometimes (not a long missive like I write) ending in profession of undying love, just a thank you for doing the laundry or something like that can be a big part of that. A touch on her hand for 5 extra seconds when you hand her something or she hands you something at the dinner table works too.

A touch, a glance, a smile, a kind word...These are affection...

A dozen roses this weekend. No love letter or mushy card, just the flowers. Or better still, whatever her favorite flowers are other than roses.

No questions about commitment or future or huge box of expensive chocolates, but maybe a bag of those silly little candy hearts with the goofy sayings on them. Not a production worthy of a Cecil B Demille movie with Charlton Heston in the leading role and Liz Taylor in a supporting role, just a 15 second commercial spot to get the message across in as few words as possible.

Become the guy she wants to be in love with.

Here's the thing. She doesn't believe that you have changed, are willing to change or can remain the new you. So you have to show her that you are a new and improved version of Jon and not the one she fell out of love with.

Don't tell her things can get better. SHOW her how much better they can be.

Yes, it is hard and will take your every ounce of strength. If you let your Taker lose for 5 minutes you have to start over, so lock him up and melt down the key and then break something off in the lock for a while.

Mark

Thanks, Mark. That was awesome. Jon, read those posts over and over. Mark said in two posts what I have been trying to say for fifty pages.

And for V-day...One rose and the candy hearts would do it for me. Just leave them on the kitchen counter with a handwritten note. don't say anything but "You're welcome" to her thanks.

God's Blessings,

Say

ok guys, MARK your the man! I bought a silk rose, a heart shaped bowl and I'm going to fill it with the heart candies, and some red confetti. i will set it out on the counter with a hand written card that says "Happy Valentine's Day, We love you, Jon, Son, Daughter. (I will use thier real names of course )

I have to stop being afraid of her, it's like I'm afraid to "stand up" to her for some reason. i have not been being a man at all. I will become the man she wants to be in love with, and i will stay that way. I LOVE MB! You all are the best.

Jon, I'm curious.

Describe your self physically.

Height, weight, build, etc.

I'm 6'1 160 lbs, decent shape, Dark brown hair, goatee-mustache combo. I would consider myself an attractive feller

btw what is D-Day?

Discovery day.

The day you found out about the affair.

I know that the separation in your heart and the emotional pain you feel is difficult to put behind you but you can do it. No amount of wondering what she is thinking or going to think will ever give you peace. She will have to be willing and eager to work on the marriage first. You were not allways this fragile and she needs to see you be strong again. I assure you she was not who makes you strong so relax and trust God for the consequences of your obediance to Him. Your wife needs you to sow her that she can lean on you and you have a direction in your life, with or without her. Ultimatly thats what she needs. When her fog clears she will be happy you kept a cool head.

Get involved with work, smile and live life to the fullest with confidance, this is just one of the tests of your character that will determine an outcome of your life. Its up to you what it will be. Misery and hopelessness or Victory over the lies our flesh tries to sell us. All you can do is love her and stand for what love is.

Hang in there bro

Have you weighed yourself lately?

I lost 30lbs in one month on the BS diet, and did not even realize it until someone told me I looked emaciated.

Went from 5'10" 160lbs, to 130lbs!!

Ok, me and the WS just had a pretty rough run in. It started when she said she was going to try to take off work early and I said "thats great, maybe me you and the kids can go do something" Then she said "well I can't get off early but when I do get off me and my friends are going to see the Valentine's day movie". I said "I kind of wanted to see that movie too. it seems like you want to get out of the house any time you get the chance and that bothers me" she said "well maybe I do and what did you expect that me and you would go see that movie together! "! I said "Well maybe we could have gone and seen it together, it also bothers me that you go out of the house without your rings on and I sometimes can't help but wonder if you are talking to him when you're out"
she said "I am a grown adult and i will talk to whoever I want ( I stopped her and said NO, if your talking to him I want to know about it and it is not ok), but I have told you if you want to talk to my friends or check my reciepts when I'm out you can, It's not like I'm going out drinking or clubbing, we go shopping, and go to the movies. And about my rings I'm not going to wear them and pretend everything is ok WE ARE GETTING A DIVORCE"!

I remained calm the entire time, and said "I also have a hard time sleeping when your not here because i do worry about you when your not here" she said "So you want me to remain a prisoner in my own home on account of your sleeping habits"!
I said "No, i don't want you to be a prisoner or pretend everything is ok, I am telling you how I feel that is all, it is ok that you go out with your friends you are an adult you make your own decisions and i am glad you have friends like them, I am telling you it is hurtful that you go out without your rings on and that we miss you when your gone" she said "The kids can't miss me they are always asleep when I go out, and when they are not sleeping I usually take them with me, or at least one of them, I am an adult and i will do what I want to do, me and you are over, there is nothing there and I am focusing on my job right now then after that I AM FILING"!

My last words were "i am struggling to save my family because I LOVE MY FAMILY" and I closed her door and walked off. she came out and said "It's not like I don't love my family too"! I was 100% assertive and honest, I don't know if I handled it ok but it was how i was feeling and I didn't hide anything.

You know whats crazy is normally this would have ruined my day, but I know it's just words and it doesn't really bother me. Tomorrow we are going to my brother's little girl's B-day party and the WHOLE family will be there, I wonder how thats going to go Should i ask her if she wants something to eat?

Rigghhhht...

And I'm BATMAN!!

Yes!



Jon, do you have a physical discription of OM?
Can you post it?

OM is about 6'5 165 lbs, bald, always has stubble on his face like between clean shaved and a beard. 33 years old, which is 10 years older than her. kind of mysterious, and is into witchraft, buddhism and taoism type stuff.

now she is in her room crying. I asked her "are you hungary" she said "no thank you" like nothing even happened

Foggy-babbley BOO.

There were a few times I hit my forehead while reading your post about your exchange, but you didn't do anything too bad. The things that bothered me was that you let her drag you in to her argument. You need to get some pocket responses that you can use when she is trying to goad you. You should also get some reverse fog-babble sayings that you would repeat to her.

Keep up the good work, you are coming along fine.

Jon,

I suggest you take that link down at once.


Legal troubles come from such things.

Not suggesting you had this as a motive, but have seen here another OM who had his companies website attacked as the result of a link showing up here.

Who CARES what OM looks like or what he is into.

The way of Plan A is the same for any...

Meet your WW's ENs, especially Conversation and Affection as much as she allows.
Avoid ALL love busters.
Have no expectations.

She talks affair or divorce, change the subject.

The rest of what she says you treat like the ramblings of a falling down drunk that has come up to you on the street.

You are running out of time my friend. You can't waste Plan A time worrying about what she is doing or what he is doing or what either of them might do or will do or can do. You only have so much in the tank and when it is gone the wheels stop turning.

Develop a PLAN and execute it.

The NO Saints (who dat?) won by executing their PLAN and sticking with it without regard for the scoreboard.

Meet ENs
Avoid Love Busters
Have NO expectations

That is all...

Carry on...